#204 - Why High Achievers Still Feel Empty | Kenyada Meadows

0:00 You should figure out what your goals and objectives truly are for your own purposes. Then you figure out how do I get there, right? But we should also add that lens when I'm at the end of life or close enough to it, do I think that that's gonna be a a life that was well examined and well spent. I I think we gotta go forward and backwards. Hey you all, welcome back um for what we uh I believe is gonna be another awesome episode.

0:40 Not too often do you get to have a conversation with someone that's your exact age and um only a c two months apart. So uh one being born in the Bahamas, one being born right here in the Midwest of the South. So we're gonna see what forty-seven years of life through the conversation today, what it what it brought together. And no doubt he's more intelligent and at a higher level of uh of what he's a achieved and experienced in life. So we're gonna see that He'll bring the brilliance and I'll dumb it down a little bit, so maybe we'll meet in the middle. But uh but today on the Necessary Entrepreneur, we're joined by Kenyatta Meadows, founder of the executive parent company, leadership coach and author of The New Alpha. Kenyatta spent over two decades in high level leadership roles across organizations like Bank of America, JP Morgan, and Deloitte building a career in audit, risk, and fraud.

1:28 This is gonna be a conversation, man. But after reaching that level, he began to question the traditional definition of success and what it actually costs. Now he's focused on helping leaders redefine what it means to win, not just in business, but across their entire lives. This is a conversation about success, identity, and building a life that actually works. Welcome to the show, Kenyatta. Thanks lot. Good to good to be here. Good to be here. Yeah, it's good to You're you're a little humble and you're a little bit humble in the in the intro, but we'll we'll we'll figure it out. We'll see. We'll see what's what. There we go. We'll see what the where the honesty lies, right? Um, so hey, you started this executive parent company. That's a very broad name from all that experience and all those huge, it's I mean, those are not even Fortune 500 companies.

2:13 Those are Fortune 50 and Fortune, you know, 100s. Um, but but this book, so let's just dive right in. So the book is the new alpha. That's a broad statement as well. We could go deep there on what that is, but the core premise in the book. is real leadership is about alignment across your life, not dominance in one area. How'd you arrive there? So a couple of things. I'll back up just a little bit. Um, the executive executive parent company is sort of a play on words. So I started a podcast in 2022 called Executive Dad. Being an executive parent an executive and a parent, I thought the executive parent company would be good because it's also a holding company. So it's a parent company uh for various assets, including publishing and and so forth.

2:57 And so that's where we get the name and that's how we get down to the book. Um you know, the new alpha is really a lot of self-exploration and also tons of observation. So when I talk about that, I don't uh move away from the name Alpha. I think to be Alpha, to have Alpha, um is natural, makes sense. Uh and I do discuss that. I I go back to the hunter-gatherer and talk about where gender roles and responsibilities kind of originated and how some of them translate uh into where we are today and and how that makes sense. But also There are a lot of attributes and a lot of ways of thinking that are dated and that actually are holding people back, holding men back in particular, but holding societies, organizations, families back.

3:45 And so a lot of what it means to be alpha or has meant to be alpha, to be male, to be successful, is really rooted in what they're able to provide. So now we don't have to go and hunt, but we have to go and work 60, 80, 100 hour weeks or start businesses or do whatever. Some of that's fun. It can be very productive. But typically that over-indexing in that one domain means that we're not paying attention to or that the other domains are suffering and those being uh you know our relationships at work, the relationships at home, and the relationship with ourselves being the three, the three domain framework that I talk about in the book. Hmm. So what the old cause we're at a weird place in culture here, especially being in the United States in 2026.

4:32 it's been a weird evolution, I'd say, over the past five to ten years. And it seems like everyone's trying to we're trying to gain our footing on maybe the way that we were raised, how to exist in the current environment with the new age of AI. It seems like where do we fit in? And the new alpha. What's different from the way that maybe that statement ten or twenty years ago was perceived and how you're actually making an argument about how it should be utilized today? It's about emotional intelligence and emotional literacy and the acknowledgement of our true and full human capacity, I would say. So when I say that, what do I mean? The process of becoming a man from a boy is essentially a dehumanizing process, what I refer to as a dehumanization.

5:18 And even though I'd never heard that phrase before or put that way, and I think most people haven't necessarily heard it, when they do hear it, I think they automatically know what I'm talking about. So Specifically, it's about tamping down our emotions, it's about working through pain, it's about denial, self-denial, it's about competition, criticizing other people who show so-called weakness. Uh a lot of what is human we actually just call effeminate, right? It is that emotional, it is a seeking connection and uh a need for communication and all the rest of it. But the reality is that's what human beings need, and that's how human beings thrive.

5:58 And so we can retain the benefits and the advantages, I would say, of being men and being individuals while also being more human or rehumanizing ourselves. And that's really what the new alpha uh aims to do. And I think also actually, I'll show you the cover of the book uh here if you can see that. That's actually a a hollowed-out tree. It's not super obvious, but I think once you start reading the book, you realize that I use that metaphor throughout the book, the hollow man. And a lot of men, and I'll I'll talk about sort of where the where the metaphor comes from, but a lot of men, they're operating, they seem strong, they seem stable, but inside there is uh there's something that's missing.

6:41 Uh and this is why a lot of people who work so hard also play hard. They also do a lot of risky activities. They self-medicate, they overeat, overindulge. they have sex addictions, not everybody, of course, but you know, there are various ways that we try to fill that hollow. And um the reason I thought about that was thinking about trees. And I think everybody's experienced this before or seen this, where there's a tree in the center of town, tree in your yard, tree in the neighborhood, very solid, very old. It's always been there. You know, overnight, maybe a little bit of wind, a little bit of rain, nothing that seemed out of the ordinary at all. You wake up, And the tree is laying on its side. You're like, that didn't seem like enough to blow down that tree.

7:21 But when you take a closer look, you see that the roots were rotten, maybe very shallow, the inside was hollow. And I think we see a lot of that with men. They seem fine until they crash out or they, you know, fall off the path, or maybe they are living a a a kind of a double life, you know, the way they present outside and the way they are by themselves or with their families. And so You know, looking at this, you know, that what what really the cover intends to indicate is that, you know, we can be like this, we can be hollow, but there's also the option and the opportunity for some new growth in there. And so that's really what what I'm talking about, that we can retain that framework, but we can fill it with something good, something new, something fresh.

8:04 From your research, not just your lived experience, from your research, do you think it's been this way ever since we could track back on what a man was? partly. I I think some of the disconnection though has come from the fact that we've carried forward a lot of behaviors and thoughts in an environment that continues to change and that continues to tell us that there's something wrong with us. And the reality is there is something wrong with us. Um and it's partly our own doing and it's partly cultural. there's a lot that we've learned and that we may have inherited that we need to reparent ourselves about. We can't say, well, my Upbringing was tough for your whole life.

8:46 I mean, maybe that's a factual statement, but it's not an excuse. So at this point, I think there is a disconnection or need to reconcile how we've been historically, who we are, and how we want to be actually, but also how we fit into the environment currently and also into the future. And I think um speaking about sort of that rehumanization and an acknowledgement of who we are as people, as true human beings and our needs is what's gonna help us to reconcile that. So yeah, I think there's certainly a lot of carryover historically. I think there's always, well, not always, but I think there's been certainly for many generations this kind of conflict and contrast.

9:28 but but if you go back all the way back to the beginning, I mean, someone who's a hunter wasn't getting any kind of uh probably as far as we know, wasn't getting any kind of uh there was no tension, you know, that that his masculinity was toxic or he was doing too much. Today, you know, we have to kind of understand that, reconcile that. But in a hunter gatherer he probably did feel pressure to bring home the food every day 'cause if he didn't they died. Yeah, absolutely. But but that's also almost as fundamental as breathing, I think, or or knowing that you need to have water. I mean, that was just a part of necessity and a part of life. So people didn't really question the behavior or didn't really question the thinking because it was all related to something that was very clear, very tangible, and that everyone understood.

10:14 Today I think it's quite different, right? So we we do deal with some contradictions, many contradictions. in terms of how we engage. I mean you've got to be chivalrous, which I'm behind. You've got to be a provider and I'm I'm behind that. But you also have to figure out how do we balance and where do we balance uh points of equality. How do we raise our sons? How do we raise our daughters? Should there be differences? What are those differences? You know, how do we raise them the same, right? To both be resilient, to both be individual thinkers and critical thinkers. So there's a lot more ah balancing of those factors and elements today than I think that there probably ever has been. Are we overcomplicating it now?

10:56 Depends on who you are, depends on where you are. I mean, if we're talking about America, maybe. Uh if you're looking at other parts of the world that seem at least a little bit less confused or conflicted, I don't know that that's necessarily meaning that they're in the best position, right? You can still have super patriarchal, super oppressive environments and everyone's just kind of used to it, but that doesn't make it right. Um but I don't know that anyone would necessarily call those societies over complicated. I think they're quite straightforward uh in what the expectation is and in everybody's kinda acquiescence, right? Um so so it really depends on on where you are, who you are and specifically what you're talking about.

11:41 So in the book, me not reading it yet, in the book, do you make an art uh Hey do you do you actually go deep whose responsibility is it more, the individual man or cultural societies? Know how we can make it cultural societies, you know, how how do we hold culture responsible for anything? It's it it boils down to the individual. If you look at a company and you talk about the actions of the company, so I've actually got another book that's gonna be by the time this episode goes out, it'll be available for pre-order on Amazon called The Passenger Seat. And it really talks about um it really challenges the leadership literature and research because it's overwhelmingly about leaders.

12:25 But if you look at organizations, communities, environments. How many people have a formal leader uh author have formal leader authority or title? The vast majority are followers, but my argument is you can't simply follow or absolve yourself of moral responsibility or ethical responsibility by saying I'm a follower. You are a part of the institution as an individual, you operate and you have to take responsibility. So, in the same way that I argue that point in the passenger seat, which is the name of the new book, I also would propose that in answer to your question. to me, You have ultimate responsibility for your life, for your decisions, for your contributions, be they positive or negative, and the ramifications of those contributions.

13:07 So why has society so I'm making this st overarching statement, why has society tended to default to not having people take full responsibility? What what what evidence do you have for that or like what is your thinking in terms of why you think that's true? It it's from my experience of the forty seven years, as we touched on in the beginning, and then also in this new dynamic of the workplace. I really look into the workplace and for a long time it seemed like for the past ten years, employees tended to hold the entity and the company more responsible for their feelings, their positions, their promotions, their outcomes more than their own internal performance compared to the metric.

13:51 And I'm saying that's everyone, but I've seen that a lot. That and we'll talk about this today about balance, you know, and what I what I just there's this debate out there with some of these elite folks, and they say owners and top managers of companies shouldn't expect employees to be as committed as them, to go all in as them, to act like the owner of the business. There's some people that are providing that narrative. And But for me, the way that I've achieved what I have in life, in every position I was in as an employee, I actually acted like and took responsibility as if I owned it.

14:33 And so what I'm saying is society more is going to this place that we shouldn't hold ourselves to that level, to that standard, to that responsibility. And and so that's where I'm going. I'm just seeing it more and more about it's not that feelings aren't real. But for me to achieve what I've achieved in life, and you might push back on this through your journey and the books you're writing, but for me to achieve what I have in life, there was a lot of moments that didn't feel good. And that was my responsibility to work through those to make sure, to make sure that I dictated my outcome more than let it happen to me. So that's where it comes from from this from me just keeping my eyes open. Yeah, so I agree with that. I mean, look, my my perspective is simple. There's very little that I think I've ever said or done that that that says that individuals are absolved of responsibility.

15:17 I mean, at the end of the day, you were born by yourself, you're gonna die by yourself, right? Even if you're surrounded by friends and family, even if you're on a plane that's going down with 300 other people, you're still dying by yourself, essentially, because it's your life. And so I I don't I don't really believe in blaming society or culture. I think there is a reason to acknowledge. Where there may be some disconnects and discrepancies. But particularly, and this is the advantage of living in a free country, right? You get to get to choose where you work largely. Maybe the timing may be a little bit different. You might have to be thoughtful or patient or whatever it is, but you do get the opportunity to move around. You don't have to stay in your city. You don't have to stay in your building. You can move around. So I think there's plenty of responsibility for us.

15:59 Now, I think that the the essence of your question kind of gets to something maybe a little deeper as well, which is how does society operate, right? Like what does it mean to be a part of society? does it mean to buy everything that you see advertised on TV and to eat all the food that kind of comes your way? I mean some people are living like that, right? And and they're kind of going with the flow and they're lacking intention. We don't judge them, but we ups we observe that. I think the kinds of people that you and I and others that we know and probably associate with, We we don't think that way. We we recognize that there's there has to be intentionality, there has to be purpose, and there is ultimate responsibility for the things we do.

16:43 And even for other people around us. So, so I I uh you know, you can acknowledge that that's what's happening maybe culturally, but I don't know to what extent it really affects the way I move or the way I think or the way that other people should. Yeah, I that's where I'm going, you know, culturally w coming from the question of is it more cultural responsibility or is it individual? I'm somebody that says, Hey, we're responsible individually, but cultures affect us and and the culture is the the house and maybe the church or the people you hang out with, your friends. I mean, that's culture. Culture mostly isn't just the United States. Culture's your community, your local community. And can I so Time. Yeah, and I saw something yesterday is like I don't politics don't even matter. I'm registered independent now. I think I grew up Democratic.

17:24 I could have defaulted towards this conservative slant of accountability at a young age, but I'm independent because I just I just don't buy into any of it. But I heard Rahm Emanuel. I just read something either last night or yesterday where he was interviewed where he said that, and this isn't about politics. You could say stuff about people on the right and Republicans. He said the Democratic Party has lost its way. And he said what what they're doing is he said at some point you have to acknowledge that fifty of the top communities in the country, fifty percent of the kids aren't like kindergarten and reading ready. At what point are we gonna look at ourselves and take some responsibility to say, Hey, somebody has to be responsible for this?

18:07 And it seems like we've gone too far the other way. And so that's cultural. That's not an individual. Sure. Yeah, I I would agree with that, but there are a couple of things that I would I would highlight. I mean, I'm sure that that's not really just applicable to Democratic kids. I'm sure it's also applicable to Republican kids. I said and the reason why I invoked Rom Emanuel 'cause people'd be my God, is he quoting Rami Man? It's I'm independent, guys. So I I know. Yeah, I I I totally get it. Um, as it relates to children or people who are vulnerable, I mean, they're they're sort of relying on others to lead, to lead them. But culture is still an amalgamation of the individuals and what we choose to do. Uh speaking of politicians, right, these are the people who help to truly uh influence culture by loop laws and rules and expect expectations.

18:53 and and and also the leaders of organizations and so forth. However, it still depends on what the individual does. So clearly it it is difficult to change a culture, um, but we do have the opportunity and we have seen groups kind of lobby and push and advocate for things that have changed the way that society operates or changed what is deemed appropriate in terms of what is said and what is done. So and and that's that's all coming from groups of people and individuals as well, either working together as individuals as a part of the group or following individuals as a group and then kind of scattering their influence. So so at the end of the day, yes, I mean it's like swimming against the current.

19:36 Um, but if you have enough people, uh, you know, I don't know how many would need to change the current, but I I'm pretty sure that if you have enough people creating waves and and fluttering around in the water, you know, you would be able to disrupt that, right? So it's not easy. But it's not hopeless. Um, we're not helpless and we can navigate and I mean that's what we're trying to do here. I mean, you've got a podcast, right? There's a reason that you're doing that. It's not because you think that the culture can't be influenced or that people can't be influenced. I mean, you're taking on issues, you're talking about things. I'm talking about things that uh kind of fly in the face of the of the cultural of of of the expectation status quo and ways that we think we can make things better for people and for the culture.

20:21 Yeah. So what does the new alpha in this new environment, what you're arguing in the book, what where's the new alpha begin if we if we're leaving something, the old alpha, and someone is understanding how to transition to this, like what's it mean to thrive in this environment as a man we're sitting here talking about? What where do you start with that? Right there. You start there and you start here. I mean, the the the idea is, and I talk about this sometimes, you know, people change their behavior when there's a crisis, right? You have a heart attack, and you're like, God, I gotta stop eating fatty foods. Thank goodness I didn't die, et cetera, et cetera. You go to the doctor, you're diabetic, now you gotta change everything.

21:04 Suppose you just decided to be intentional before any of that happened. You recognized your patterns. You knew that it wasn't good to eat a bucket of chicken at eleven PM and then go to sleep or never exercise or overindulge. Like you know it's not a good idea. Um, so how about just being intentional at some point? So I think we don't need to wait for a crisis. What we do uh do need to do is to say, hey, am I on track living a life that I wanna live, that I'm gonna be proud of, and that when I look back at it, I'm gonna say this was time well spent. The second thing is what are your stated values and what are your lived values?

21:48 Because we there's a huge disconnect typically, right? You've got very successful, uh industrious guys, you know, men, women, whomever, who say, I love my family. I my kids are my priority. Okay, they're your priority. There's 168 hours in the week. You spend eight with them. So are they your priority? Is this what you is this your lived reality? I think once we just take stock of where we are, of who we say we are and who we wanna be, then reconciling becomes a lot easier. We shouldn't wait for a crisis. We should take responsibility for ourselves. It's not my boss is so hard to deal with and my boss, you know, always expects me to work on the weekend.

22:29 You're your boss. So take responsibility for that. And I think once we do that, which is what resulted in my pivot, right? reconciling the fact that yeah, this is a great path to be on on paper. There was plenty of benefits from it, but I wasn't feeling fulfilled and my contribution as I saw it or as I see it in the world was never going to be optimized if I continued on the path that I was on. And so I started t it took years of adjustment and tinkering and thinking and learning. But ultimately, uh, I've gotten on the path that I'm on where I think I'm going to be most happy and make the biggest impact. What's happy mean to you? That's a good question. So I think I I I often think of happy as kind of laughing, right?

23:14 Not that not that they're not that they're the same, but you'll see what I mean by this. We're not generally in a state of laughter. Like if someone was just laughing baseline, there would be no question as to whether something was wrong with them, right? Uh to me, being happy is kind of a peak. Uh, but I rather think of myself as content. on an ongoing basis, or that's my objective baseline, and what contentment means to me or for me is what I've kind of addressed that I'm feeling fulfilled and I'm contributing. I think happiness is when, you know, you're maybe even more mindful or you're reminded of those opportunities and and of those contributions.

23:55 Um, and you can look back through your intention and say, hey, you know what? I'm doing a good thing. I feel good about this. Uh it also could be something way lighter than the than that. But to live a happy life is to me at first to live a contented life, one where you're contributing, one where you feel value, one where you feel valued. And then having those kind of peaks, just like you'd have a have a nice laugh throughout the day. I think you can feel happy throughout the day. Do you still feel like you have DNA inside you to be a high achiever? Yeah. I mean, I I think I think I'm on a path to high achievement, right? I think what I've done before is high achievement, maybe generally speaking, or by other people's standards.

24:39 I mean by my standards too, but within a very narrow framework, right? Within a silo. Where I want to do more things, I want to s synthesize schools of thought and disciplines. I want to spend my time as I would like to spend it. Um chasing and following and creating projects and paths, learning new things, going to places when I want to. Uh to me that's what high achievement is. And it's also going to be measured not in terms of money or not in terms of a title and and rungs that I achieve up a up a ladder, but by the breadth of people and places and things that I can influence over the course of the rest of my life.

25:20 So I don't even want to use the word balance because it drives me crazy, because nothing in my life is ever balanced. You maybe that'll be your word, but that's not my word. But how do you make this contentment? How do you make it flow like a river in with this elite performance at the same time? So why why do you not like balance? Or not not that you don't like balance, but why don't like the word? What does it denote what does it denote to you? Think here's what here's what I think the problem is. I think when the world uses it, I think they're talking about solving for something that's not gonna lead them necessarily to high achievement. That's what I'm concerned about. Because I think balance thinks that you can turn something off and turn something else on at the same time and you can consistently do that throughout a day.

26:07 I've found if you want really high achievement, it all has to flow and work together. It doesn't mean that that has to be your entire life, but there are seasons Of when if people want to say balance, if I want to talk about their word, there are to have high success, even with family, there's times you have to give more there to have a successful outcome. And so if somebody's talking about a baseline of balance all the time, I've never seen that that's a successful outcome. So you're really going to enjoy uh the chapter in my book called Wobbling Well. because it challenges that presumption that a lot of people have around what balance is. Uh and I'm gonna get, you know, I'm gonna get to that here in a minute.

26:49 But but you also, you know, you said some interesting things there. You you referenced high achievement um and success a couple of times. I think uh I'll I'll I'll challenge that a couple in a couple of ways. One, I don't know that. High achievement by any definition is really a requirement for anybody. I think it's something that is great if you can do it, good for you, but also for some people, we consider our abilities or talents as a responsibility that should either naturally that naturally does lead to high achievement because it's maybe a little bit easier, or something that we should leverage to do something interesting or to better the world around us, to better our own lives, right?

27:31 So So I think I I mean, clearly I agree ah with you that high achievement has plenty of value. I just don't know that everyone is capable of high achievement. Otherwise, what would high achievement be? And I don't know that everyone should necessarily seek it. Um, but with the understanding that everyone can define it or should define it in their own way and not be stuck to a homogenous or kind of a some central definition of what it is because it's just not gonna be what's gonna make everyone happy. um or or or feel fulfilled. So that's that's one thing. The second thing is balance. So I think about uh, you know, those old fashioned clocks with the pendulum when it kind of ticks, or just a pendulum at all.

28:13 It doesn't have to be a clock. If you take a snapshot, ten snapshots, a hundred snapshots of that pendulum when it's in in motion, almost never will you find that it's completely up and down, straight up, straight down. It's gonna be some degree of tilt. one way or another. But at the end of the day, when you observe that pendulum or you think of like Newton's cradle, it's still operating within a framework and it's still actually kind of balanced. And so in the book, I talk about I use the analogy of professional cyclists. When you see people like sprinting to the finish line of the Tour de France, the bicycle is not straight up and down. It's someone violently left to right.

28:57 But What do we think about when we think of uh riding a bicycle and not falling down? Balance. So that's what's required. And the example that you gave is perfect, a perfect example where if you are sick or someone around you is sick, you're gonna have to and you ought to put more time and energy there than at work or you know, maybe you have to skip your yoga class or your golf round or whatever it is. But that doesn't mean that you're not balanced. A lot of people will think balance means 24 hours a day divided into Three segments or six segments, and that I can only work exactly this number of hours, right? I have to spread myself in this very narrow measure or time frame. That's not it at all.

29:37 There are six there are seasons, there are cycles where we just need to do more. Um and so that's fine, but that doesn't mean you're not balanced. What it means is you should be intentional about evaluating how much or for how long you've gone askew. relative to the other things that are important in your life and make sure that you can get those back into back into ba balance, as I would say. So let me take the high achievement and just dig a little bit deeper on this to ask if this connects with you or or what your thoughts are on it. Um about just being the best at whatever you're doing as an individual, not compared to anyone else in a high achievement metric. Yep.

30:17 Because that's what I've always done is that I'm not competing with myself in an unhealthy way, but I'm a having having a very highly intelligent um, emotional intelligent conversation with my with myself, is this outcome that I'm getting and this effort that I'm giving, is it enough for the life that I want? Yeah. No, I mean look, I think I think that's I think that's that's smart and that's the way to to think about it. I would say if you're thinking about what is enough, I don't know that that's necessarily the highest achievement, but it can still be high. And so to illustrate that point, uh I remember I had uh I was going to have a drink with a buddy of mine.

30:58 We were in the Bahamas and we were walking and he's got two kids. I've got one daughter who's uh young quite a bit younger than his children. And he said what Everybody's parents around there probably has said for generations, I want my children to reach their full potential. That's what he said. And I've heard that plenty. Uh but just in that moment, even though it resonated and I recognized the familiarity of it, it somehow didn't quite sit right. And I s and I and I'll never forget that moment because it was an ep when I sort of had an epiphany. And I said, You know what? I think I want my daughter To live a life of contentment and contribution.

31:40 And I don't know that that necessarily means that she's going to live to her fullest potential, because now you're talking about potentially a Steve Jobs or somebody else who frankly doesn't seem to have lived a particularly happy life, right? but who contributed immensely in their fields of chosen desire. So so what does it mean to live to your highest potential? It probably means living a life out of balance. Right. if if I ask you Mark, I said, look, I need you know, you're a podcaster, you're a you're a provocator, you're a thinker, you're a challenger. I need I need you to live up to your highest potential in those realms. Well, then you're not gonna be able to live up to your highest potential as a parent or as a family member.

32:25 You won't be truest to yourself. So I do challenge the I recently have come to challenge, you know, this notion of being the highest, you know, l Achieving my highest potential, which has always been up to that point, sort of my goal. it's t it's a tough one. I I think what we do with it, right? So not even for ourselves, if let's go down that path of that theory. Um if you're evaluating it and going there yourself, what do we do with that? Well, what's enough? Like you like you said in one of your earlier comments um just a couple minutes ago, you know, you used the word enough. And that resonated because I mean you can go out and make more money.

33:07 It might not be as easy, or it may become incrementally more difficult, but you still could, but it's gonna require a trade-off, right? You could stay up a couple hours later and sleep a little bit less. It's gonna require a trade-off. So at the end of the day, you defining what is enough and knowing why you do things. So you n you you you know, you want an expensive watch. I like watches, uh I like art, I like whatever. But how many do I need? How many shoes do I need? And how much of my life am I trading for the money that I'm trading for those things? Do they add more to me? Or do I have enough? Which means I can then focus my energy or use my resources elsewhere to do other things and to accrue other benefits or to Do other things for other people.

33:54 So I think the key is figuring out what is enough, what is your motivation? Do you want that watch because you just love, you know, the architecture and and and y you know, you love horology or are you buying it because you wanna prove to other people that you're at a certain status and that you can fit in. You know, those those are the things we really need to consider. Yeah. Do you think reverse engineering an outcome versus what you're saying your intended goal is or inverting it? 'Cause you can get there, you can you can almost clearly define how to get from A to B by doing that. Do you think that's healthy or no? I think I think you should do both. I think you should figure out, you know, you should figure out what your goals and objectives truly are for your own purposes.

34:38 Then you figure out, just like anything else, how do I get there? Right. We all know about smart goals, specific, measurable, attainable, all the rest of it, time, time bound. So that's going forward, that's forward looking. But we should also add that lens that I I think I touched on earlier, which is when I'm at the end of life or close enough to it, when I look backwards. Do I think that that was gonna be a use of time? But when I put it on the scale of an entire life, do I think that that's gonna be a a life that was well examined and well spent? And so I I think we gotta go forward and backwards. So how did you get here from starting out as a CPA? Uh, by recognizing that I didn't like it.

35:19 I never liked it. I knew I didn't like it. so when I was when I was younger, I loved biology. High school that was my favorite subject, biology. and I was thinking I'd be a doctor. And then I had just turned 17. My little brother just turned 10 and he died uh relatively suddenly. And I was like, Yeah, I don't think I want to be around hospitals, I don't want to deal with this. So my dad was sort of like, Yeah, you should be a doctor, you know, go go for that. And then uh my mother was saying, Well, you know, the world needs accountants, maybe you could do accounting since you seem to have an interest in business. And so I couldn't think of anything better to do, and I just started doing accounting.

36:02 Uh ended up with a master's working at Deloitte, eventually got a CPA and some other licenses. And for the most part, those things were interesting. Uh but It didn't feel like a life of my own choosing. And so I built a career of 25 years on all of that. And it was good. Uh, very fortunate, very privileged, and I'm happy uh for for what that was. But it also taught me that this isn't what you want to do, and you don't have to keep doing it, right? Um, you're not feeling fulfilled, and you're not gonna be more fulfilled doing this. I looked up the hierarchy and I thought. I don't really wanna be like I don't wanna live or work like any of these people.

36:47 Right. They may be great people outside of work or, you know, maybe sometimes I'd see them outside of the workplace and I would think, okay, yeah, you're not a bad person. You're you're kind of interesting or you're funny or whatever the case is. But at the end of the day, do I want to work and live the way they work and live? I'll take their paycheck, I'll take their influence, but I don't wanna take their li I don't want I don't want their lives the way that I see it, or certainly not their professional lives. And so once it became clear, it's like, what am I working hard to climb a ladder? And I don't even want to be on this ladder. I just read maybe a couple of days ago, I forget uh where the quote comes from, but it was it was something akin to, you know, being successful climbing a ladder uh on the wrong wall isn't really success.

37:30 Something like that. and so I I decided I don't want to be on that ladder, I wanna do something that's more broad. I want to be on a lattice and of my choosing. So with writing these books and this leadership and this new this new life that you're weaning into, would you go back and tell the Kenyatta fifteen years ago, would you go back and teach him or have him read things or have him learn the things sooner? Or was the jer full journey necessary to arrive here? Because I asked that question and how do we lead and advise and mentor younger folks than us now? Sure. I mean I think it's I think it's a a com a combined approach, right?

38:11 Um I don't really feel like anything that I experienced was wasted. Um because if I was smart enough to get there or good enough to get there sooner, I would have gotten there sooner. Um now yeah, I could go back and give myself some some advice, but frankly, a lot of the things that resonate with us and that kind of hit are pieces of advice that we've already heard before. It's things that people have already told us. It's things we've already been seeing, but just didn't resonate, didn't make sense because we weren't, you know, we weren't supple enough or or the the soil wasn't fertile enough for those things to to take hold. And I think the the the the experiences and the education, the conversations, the places we go, um, those are all the things that kind of get us ready.

38:54 Um, I probably would encourage myself to take more risks sooner. Um but In terms of the experience, there really isn't too much that I can say that I really regret, uh, knowing I mean, obviously fifteen years ago, who wouldn't have who wouldn't have bought Bitcoin or who wouldn't have invested in NVIDIA or y you know what I mean? I don't Exactly. Right. Y you Netflix. I mean, these are the types of things that, yeah, some some future information and knowledge would help with. But I think, you know, it's kind of like what happens with butterflies, right? Um, in order for a butterfly and you you probably know this, in order for a butterfly to be able to fly, it has to struggle to get out of the cocoon.

39:37 Like if you open up the cocoon, you're actually depriving it of the process that allows its wings to fill with fluid that can provides the framework and the strength for them to fly. So I think a lot of the the the the the tension and the challenges and the frustrations, all of that stuff, you know, we say it builds character, but I think it builds the framework for for the future you. So I go back of this guy I'm sitting here talking to I don't know why we track this in years. It's like when we were first humans, what we what we track it in, I don't know. Is it but we're sitting here at 47 years. And from what I've learned about this human experience myself, when I used to have leaders and managers and me being a mentor now, this experience.

40:25 I'm assuming That the ten and twelve and fourteen and sixteen year old you was a curious, smart boy with a good attitude. Yeah. I mean, yeah, simply put, I mean of course I wasn't perfect, but um Yeah, no, absolutely. I and I think that's right. Um my parents were extremely engaged uh with me growing up, with us growing up. You know, there were books you know around the house all the time, um and things we spoke about. I was challenged regularly to think, um, when I didn't even want to or didn't like it.

41:10 Um but but yeah, I asked a lot of questions. I was always you know, I I say to people I was always an auditor. You know, before I knew that I was one. I I didn't dream of becoming an auditor, but I was already one. Um, I always look for patterns, I always synthesize things. Uh, I remember my French teacher in I think eighth or ninth grade told my mother at at at the PTA, I think French has maybe 16 irregular verbs or something like that. And she said, Kenyatta needs to uh stop questioning why this verb isn't conjugated like that verb and just learn the verbs. And um You know, I can completely understand that because my question isn't going to change the French language, but I think that was a very narrow application, understandably, because we're talking French and she was my French teacher.

42:01 That's the capacity in which she knew me. But the idea that I would be looking at patterns and saying, why isn't this the way or why doesn't that make sense? is what I think has allowed me to have such a broad understanding of, you know, different topics and an interest in people and and places around the world. Okay, so if that led you here, and obviously I asked that question to get here, let's say that someone isn't as fortunate to be exposed to that environment in whatever way, and they just didn't develop, their brain didn't develop the same way. And they're sitting here at twenty five years old listening to this.

42:41 Mm-hmm. They have a lot more infrastructure they need to work on, get to that baseline. to then be able to go down this path. So not only just necessary advice, but if you're sitting around a fireside chat with two or three or four folks that didn't have the opportunity to be around that environment, could have been a teacher, happen to be your parents, what do they do? Be intentional. So there are a couple things I would say. First of all, you don't need to be like me. They don't need to be like me. They don't need to be like you, um, in specific. And I think that's a big problem, right? You read all these articles about, well, what does Jeff Bezos eat for breakfast? And when does Bill Gates get up in the morning? That's that's nonsense, right?

43:22 And and it's not gonna make you a billionaire, it's not gonna make you anything except frustrated, most likely. So you don't wanna necessarily be like me in in the manifestations necessarily, but The keys are just being curious, and you can start out wherever you are with whatever you have. And especially if you say, Well, you're 25, well, then that gives you 22 years from now. That's almost a full other life. And you have resources, information, access, speed, data, tools that I couldn't even have imagined at 25. Uh, and so the ease with which you can have uh books and knowledge.

44:03 You just listen to, right? I mean, think about it. Audiobooks, podcasts, those things run around. Uh, you can instead of sort of, you know, hypnotizing yourself with certain songs and other things that are nonsensical, which I love music and I also like nonsense, sometimes, right? So I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. But but use what's available to you, but most importantly, find the areas of interest. things that you genuinely are interested in because those are going to be the things that you're going to learn and pick up fastest, you're going to be most excited about and probably can do, you know, do the most with. So I think just it's really about being intentional. It's about having a plan, uh, breaking your plan down into milestones.

44:46 I would encourage anybody who is thinking about this to go and understand or research SMART goals, SMART being an acronym, and I think I touched on that already. And then just kind of take it step by step. What do you think entrepreneurs, we have a few more minutes here. What you think entrepreneurs misunderstood or misunderstand about leadership that you learned the hard way in corporate America? Because now you live that life for twenty something years now. What do you think entrepreneurs because you're here now, you're doing it, you're all in. What's misunderstood that you learned the hard way in corporate America if we haven't ever spent our lives there that we don't know or we misunderstood?

45:27 That's great question because I think entrepreneurs know a lot of things that a lot of people in corporate America never learn. uh but I would say We can go there. For example, before we go to the question, what do you think some of those are? Well, I mean, I think some of those are uh the importance of risk taking and building things while you you know, building the plane while you fly it. and knowing that the fastest way to get to s success is through a bunch of failures. I think a lot of people are afraid of failure. A lot of people are accustomed to being A students or accustomed to, you know, getting great reviews and they're afraid to take chances because they don't want to mess that up, right?

46:07 And so they become sort of slaves or or in encaged but caged by by their desire not to make a mistake and entrepreneurs generally don't have that they may have that that frustration that tension or the desire obviously nobody wants to intentionally make mistakes but their ability to recover and their understanding of that being a part of the process I think is superior. Um I would say to answer your original question, maybe entrepreneurs or people in smaller businesses, they may not appreciate the the power of a network quite as much or the power the power of certain types of relationships. I mean, they would again have their own brand of relationships, their own brand of networks that maybe other people don't see, but certainly, you know, understanding um certain nuance, understanding uh political environ the political environment within large companies, for example, may not necessarily be something that they might know.

47:05 But again, it might not be something that they necessarily have to deal with. But understanding, you know, just how many decisions that you may think you're making individually or independently are actually influenced by other people and and things that you don't even know exist, um, is something that I definitely learned in corporate America and may not necessarily be the case for people in smaller cup smaller companies or whether they're the entrepreneur. So when we talked about risk, you said maybe if you would have gone back that you don't have regrets, but you would have taken more risks. What do you think that would have looked like? Well it look like it would have looked like uh companies. It would have look like, um, even though I have moved from different places and done different things, I might have moved sooner.

47:46 I might have spent a shorter amount of time, you know, in in one place and and spent more time going other places. I might have spent uh more money traveling and seeing more of the world, even though I've seen you know, pretty significant portion of the world. I I've been to several dozen co countries. Um, but maybe I would have done more of that, right? I would have I would have written m sooner. You know, there are there are a number of different things I probably would have done a little differently, um, or a different mindset. But I think it probably would have started with uh smaller companies or or or doing some of that sort of thing. One other thing I would say quickly is having an investment property first, even though I invested in the places that I have lived.

48:32 I think, you know, continuing to rent. having a cheap rent, but using money to have uh an investment property that also kinda paid for itself. I think that's something that I definitely would have done differently. But again, that comes across as as being certainly a lot more risky, right? Yeah. If you've never done it before and if you're young. So you talked a little bit about network a little bit, but in this context, how important is our network? Critical. It's critical because, you know, the people that we associate with influence how we think. They influence, even if they don't change our actual thoughts or introduce actual thoughts, which of course they do, but but separately they support or challenge our own thinking uh in ways that can be m quite critical, quite useful, um, and in some ways can be quite uh quite, you know, uh challenging and and not positive.

49:24 So if you have the wrong network. So that's really important. The second thing is you can't do very much by yourself, right? You couldn't be born into this world by yourself. You couldn't come into being by yourself. Uh and there's just so much that we owe other people debts of gratitude for, uh, even from picking up your trash and making your meals or stitching up your clothes so that you can just go and easily buy something that fits you. I mean, there's just so much interrelation. Uh and so understanding that is is really critical. And I think understanding the value of your network and how to formulate a good network um is is just as important, if not more important. Awesome. Hey, to wrap this up to hand it back over to you. Um, you talked about being intentional.

50:05 And so you out here on podcasts on writing the books and stuff, take take 30 or second sixty seconds and talk about your intentionality now, about what you're building, um, why you're doing it. So a little bit of a a marketing platform for Kenyatta, but talk about the intentionality on what you're doing, what your your your goals are and and how you want to interact with people. Well, couple things. I mean, so I'll talk about me a little bit, but it's really rooted in, you know, partly me, but what I think other people seem to be craving and what they're capable of. So I've been doing therapy for about four and a half years, which up to a year ago I I never told more than two people, one of whom was my mother. And but um one of the things that was I I would say in i really critical is understanding that the wisdom is kind of in you and that the therapy can help you to release that, unveil that.

50:55 organize it so that it makes sense. And I believe that that's the case for a lot of people. Um and so the things that I've learned and the experiences that I've had as a result of, you know, therapy, as a result of education programs and my own experience, I want other people to be able to experience that. And I think other people are capable of experiencing it. And I think if you can make and and I'm quoting somebody else, but if you can help each individual or an individual achieve personal peace or inner peace. We can help the world get closer to world peace, right? And so I'm not, you know, Desmond Tuchu are giving you the big, you know, let's solve all the world's problems kind of a a spiel, but I think it's our responsibility to influence our circle, our societies, our communities, and that's how I'm trying to do it.

51:39 Awesome. Okay. You got the second book. You kinda hit on that. But um what do you want everybody from listening to this to fifty minutes? What do you what do you want to weave on top of that? Um, what's their thoughts you want as they finish listening to this that you want them to have? They're capable. They can do whatever they want to do. Uh they can push the boundaries. They're not trapped. and they not only owe it to themselves, but they owe it to the people around them. Uh they owe it to their kids, they owe it to their partners, they owe it to their neighbors, to be uh as good as they can be as long as it doesn't interrupt their balance or as we've discussed it or as we've defined it, um, and their mental health or their physical health. Give what you can give.

52:20 Give a little extra, but don't deprive yourself of it. And you can seek that balance. And so people can find, um, just quickly, they can find a little bit more about that and my work at at executiveparent.com. my book is available on Amazon. I also narrated the audiobook. So you can find that on Audible, Spotify, Apple, music. and yeah, just reach out to me uh and I'm happy to have the conversation. I'm happy to do this again uh with you because this has been fantastic. All right, you all if you haven't heard enough of his deep voice today, go buy the Audible to hear more of it. Um hey, thanks for joining us. This is a really good conversation for just under an hour. Yeah, thank you.