#204 - Why High Achievers Still Feel Empty | Kenyada Meadows

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You should figure out what your goals and objectives truly are for your own purposes.

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Then you figure out how do I get there, right?

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But we should also add that lens when I'm at the end of life or close enough to it, do I
think that that's gonna be a a life that was well examined and well spent.

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I I think we gotta go forward and backwards.

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Hey you all, welcome back um for what we uh I believe is gonna be another awesome episode.

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Not too often do you get to have a conversation with someone that's your exact age and um
only a c two months apart.

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So uh one being born in the Bahamas, one being born right here in the Midwest of the
South.

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So we're gonna see what forty-seven years of life through the conversation today, what it
what it brought together.

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And no doubt he's more intelligent and at a higher level of uh of what he's a achieved and
experienced in life.

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So we're gonna see that

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He'll bring the brilliance and I'll dumb it down a little bit, so maybe we'll meet in the
middle.

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But uh but today on the Necessary Entrepreneur, we're joined by Kenyatta Meadows, founder
of the executive parent company, leadership coach and author of The New Alpha.

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Kenyatta spent over two decades in high level leadership roles across organizations like
Bank of America, JP Morgan, and Deloitte building a career in audit, risk, and fraud.

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This is gonna be a conversation, man.

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But after reaching that level, he began to question the traditional definition of success
and what it actually costs.

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Now he's focused on helping leaders redefine what it means to win, not just in business,
but across their entire lives.

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This is a conversation about success, identity, and building a life that actually works.

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Welcome to the show, Kenyatta.

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Thanks lot.

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Good to good to be here.

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Good to be here.

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Yeah, it's good to You're you're a little humble and you're a little bit humble in the in
the intro, but we'll we'll we'll figure it out.

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We'll see.

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We'll see what's what.

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There we go.

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We'll see what the where the honesty lies, right?

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Um, so hey, you started this executive parent company.

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That's a very broad name from all that experience and all those huge, it's I mean, those
are not even Fortune 500 companies.

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Those are Fortune 50 and Fortune, you know, 100s.

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Um, but but this book, so let's just dive right in.

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So the book is the new alpha.

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That's a broad statement as well.

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We could go deep there on what that is, but the core premise in the book.

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is real leadership is about alignment across your life, not dominance in one area.

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How'd you arrive there?

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So a couple of things.

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I'll back up just a little bit.

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Um, the executive executive parent company is sort of a play on words.

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So I started a podcast in 2022 called Executive Dad.

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Being an executive parent an executive and a parent, I thought the executive parent
company would be good because it's also a holding company.

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So it's a parent company uh for various assets, including publishing and and so forth.

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And so that's where we get the name and that's how we get down to the book.

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Um you know, the new alpha is

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really a lot of self-exploration and also tons of observation.

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So when I talk about that, I don't uh move away from the name Alpha.

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I think to be Alpha, to have Alpha, um is natural, makes sense.

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Uh and I do discuss that.

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I I go back to the hunter-gatherer and talk about where gender roles and responsibilities
kind of originated and how some of them translate uh into where we are today and and how

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that makes sense.

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But also

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There are a lot of attributes and a lot of ways of thinking that are dated and that
actually are holding people back, holding men back in particular, but holding societies,

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organizations, families back.

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And so a lot of what it means to be alpha or has meant to be alpha, to be male, to be
successful, is really rooted in what they're able to provide.

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So now we don't have to go and hunt, but we have to go and work 60, 80, 100 hour weeks or
start businesses or do whatever.

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Some of that's fun.

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It can be very productive.

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But typically that over-indexing in that one domain means that we're not paying attention
to or that the other domains are suffering and those being uh you know our relationships

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at work, the relationships at home, and the relationship with ourselves being the three,
the three domain framework that I talk about in the book.

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Hmm.

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So what the old cause we're at a weird place in culture here, especially being in the
United States in 2026.

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it's been a weird evolution, I'd say, over the past five to ten years.

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And it seems like everyone's trying to we're trying to gain our footing on maybe the way
that we were raised, how to exist in the current environment with the new age of AI.

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It seems like where do we fit in?

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And the new alpha.

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What's different from the way that maybe that statement ten or twenty years ago was
perceived and how you're actually making an argument about how it should be utilized

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today?

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It's about emotional intelligence and emotional literacy and the acknowledgement of our
true and full human capacity, I would say.

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So when I say that, what do I mean?

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The process of becoming a man from a boy is essentially a dehumanizing process, what I
refer to as a dehumanization.

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And even though I'd never heard that phrase before or put that way, and I think most
people haven't necessarily heard it, when they do hear it, I think they automatically know

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what I'm talking about.

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So

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Specifically, it's about tamping down our emotions, it's about working through pain, it's
about denial, self-denial, it's about competition, criticizing other people who show

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so-called weakness.

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Uh a lot of what is human we actually just call effeminate, right?

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It is that emotional, it is a seeking connection and uh a need for communication and all
the rest of it.

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But the reality is that's what human beings need, and that's how human beings thrive.

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And so we can retain the benefits and the advantages, I would say, of being men and being
individuals while also being more human or rehumanizing ourselves.

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And that's really what the new alpha uh aims to do.

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And I think also actually, I'll show you the cover of the book uh here if you can see
that.

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That's actually a a hollowed-out tree.

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It's not super obvious, but I think once you start reading the book, you realize that I
use that metaphor throughout the book, the hollow man.

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And a lot of men, and I'll I'll talk about sort of where the where the metaphor comes
from, but a lot of men, they're operating, they seem strong, they seem stable, but inside

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there is uh there's something that's missing.

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Uh and this is why a lot of people who work so hard also play hard.

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They also do a lot of risky activities.

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They

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self-medicate, they overeat, overindulge.

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they have sex addictions, not everybody, of course, but you know, there are various ways
that we try to fill that hollow.

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And um the reason I thought about that was thinking about trees.

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And I think everybody's experienced this before or seen this, where there's a tree in the
center of town, tree in your yard, tree in the neighborhood, very solid, very old.

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It's always been there.

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You know, overnight, maybe a little bit of wind, a little bit of rain, nothing that seemed
out of the ordinary at all.

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You wake up,

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And the tree is laying on its side.

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You're like, that didn't seem like enough to blow down that tree.

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But when you take a closer look, you see that the roots were rotten, maybe very shallow,
the inside was hollow.

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And I think we see a lot of that with men.

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They seem fine until they crash out or they, you know, fall off the path, or maybe they
are living a a a kind of a double life, you know, the way they present outside and the way

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they are by themselves or with their families.

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And so

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You know, looking at this, you know, that what what really the cover intends to indicate
is that, you know, we can be like this, we can be hollow, but there's also the option and

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the opportunity for some new growth in there.

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And so that's really what what I'm talking about, that we can retain that framework, but
we can fill it with something good, something new, something fresh.

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From your research, not just your lived experience, from your research, do you think it's
been this way ever since we could track back on what a man was?

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partly.

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I I think some of the disconnection though has come from the fact that we've carried
forward a lot of behaviors and thoughts in an environment that continues to change and

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that continues to tell us that there's something wrong with us.

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And the reality is there is something wrong with us.

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Um and it's partly our own doing and it's partly cultural.

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there's a lot that we've learned and that we may have inherited that we need to reparent
ourselves about.

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We can't say, well, my

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Upbringing was tough for your whole life.

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I mean, maybe that's a factual statement, but it's not an excuse.

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So at this point, I think there is a disconnection or need to reconcile how we've been
historically, who we are, and how we want to be actually, but also how we fit into the

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environment currently and also into the future.

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And I think um speaking about sort of that rehumanization and an acknowledgement of who we
are as people, as true human beings and our needs is what's gonna help us to reconcile

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that.

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So yeah, I think there's certainly a lot of carryover historically.

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I think there's always, well, not always, but I think there's been certainly for many
generations this kind of conflict and contrast.

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but but if you go back all the way back to the beginning, I mean, someone who's a hunter
wasn't getting any kind of uh

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probably as far as we know, wasn't getting any kind of uh there was no tension, you know,
that that his masculinity was toxic or he was doing too much.

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Today, you know, we have to kind of understand that, reconcile that.

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But in a hunter gatherer he probably did feel pressure to bring home the food every day
'cause if he didn't they died.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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But but that's also almost as fundamental as breathing, I think, or or knowing that you
need to have water.

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I mean, that was just a part of necessity and a part of life.

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So people didn't really question the behavior or didn't really question the thinking
because it was all related to something that was very clear, very tangible, and that

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everyone understood.

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Today I think it's quite different, right?

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So we we do deal with some contradictions, many contradictions.

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in terms of how we engage.

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I mean you've got to be chivalrous, which I'm behind.

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You've got to be a provider and I'm I'm behind that.

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But you also have to figure out how do we balance and where do we balance uh points of
equality.

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How do we raise our sons?

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How do we raise our daughters?

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Should there be differences?

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What are those differences?

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You know, how do we raise them the same, right?

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To both be resilient, to both be individual thinkers and critical thinkers.

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So there's a lot more ah

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balancing of those factors and elements today than I think that there probably ever has
been.

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Are we overcomplicating it now?

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Depends on who you are, depends on where you are.

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I mean, if we're talking about America, maybe.

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Uh if you're looking at other parts of the world that seem at least a little bit less
confused or conflicted, I don't know that that's necessarily meaning that they're in the

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best position, right?

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You can still have super patriarchal, super oppressive environments and everyone's just
kind of used to it, but that doesn't make it right.

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Um but

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I don't know that anyone would necessarily call those societies over complicated.

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I think they're quite straightforward uh in what the expectation is and in everybody's
kinda acquiescence, right?

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Um so so it really depends on on where you are, who you are and specifically what you're
talking about.

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So in the book, me not reading it yet, in the book, do you make an art uh Hey do you do
you actually go deep whose responsibility is it more, the individual man or cultural

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societies?

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Know how we can make it cultural societies, you know, how how do we hold culture
responsible for anything?

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It's it it boils down to the individual.

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If you look at a company and you talk about the actions of the company, so I've actually
got another book that's gonna be by the time this episode goes out, it'll be available for

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pre-order on Amazon called The Passenger Seat.

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And it really talks about um it really challenges the leadership literature and research
because it's overwhelmingly about leaders.

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But if you look at organizations, communities, environments.

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How many people have a formal leader uh author have formal leader authority or title?

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The vast majority are followers, but my argument is you can't simply follow or absolve
yourself of moral responsibility or ethical responsibility by saying I'm a follower.

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You are a part of the institution as an individual, you operate and you have to take
responsibility.

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So, in the same way that I argue that point in the passenger seat, which is the name of
the new book, I also would propose that in answer to your question.

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to me,

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You have ultimate responsibility for your life, for your decisions, for your
contributions, be they positive or negative, and the ramifications of those contributions.

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So why has society so I'm making this st overarching statement, why has society tended to
default to not having people take full responsibility?

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What what what evidence do you have for that or like what is your thinking in terms of why
you think that's true?

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It it's from my experience of the forty seven years, as we touched on in the beginning,
and then also in this new dynamic of the workplace.

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I really look into the workplace and for a long time it seemed like for the past ten
years, employees tended to hold the entity and the company more responsible for their

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feelings, their positions, their promotions, their outcomes more than their own internal
performance compared to the metric.

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And I'm saying that's everyone, but I've seen that a lot.

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That and we'll talk about this today about balance, you know, and what I what I just
there's this debate out there with some of these elite folks, and they say owners and top

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managers of companies shouldn't expect employees to be as committed as them, to go all in
as them, to act like the owner of the business.

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There's some people that are providing that narrative.

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And

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But for me, the way that I've achieved what I have in life, in every position I was in as
an employee, I actually acted like and took responsibility as if I owned it.

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And so what I'm saying is society more is going to this place that we shouldn't hold
ourselves to that level, to that standard, to that responsibility.

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And and so that's where I'm going.

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I'm just seeing it more and more about it's not that feelings aren't real.

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But for me to achieve what I've achieved in life, and you might push back on this through
your journey and the books you're writing, but for me to achieve what I have in life,

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there was a lot of moments that didn't feel good.

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And that was my responsibility to work through those to make sure, to make sure that I
dictated my outcome more than let it happen to me.

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So that's where it comes from from this from me just keeping my eyes open.

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Yeah, so I agree with that.

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I mean, look, my my perspective is simple.

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There's very little that I think I've ever said or done that that that says that
individuals are absolved of responsibility.

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I mean, at the end of the day, you were born by yourself, you're gonna die by yourself,
right?

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Even if you're surrounded by friends and family, even if you're on a plane that's going
down with 300 other people, you're still dying by yourself, essentially, because it's your

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life.

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And so I I don't I don't really believe in blaming society or culture.

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I think there is a reason to acknowledge.

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Where there may be some disconnects and discrepancies.

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But particularly, and this is the advantage of living in a free country, right?

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You get to get to choose where you work largely.

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Maybe the timing may be a little bit different.

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You might have to be thoughtful or patient or whatever it is, but you do get the
opportunity to move around.

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00:15:53,037 --> 00:15:54,124
You don't have to stay in your city.

200
00:15:54,124 --> 00:15:55,377
You don't have to stay in your building.

201
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You can move around.

202
00:15:56,138 --> 00:15:59,338
So I think there's plenty of responsibility for us.

203
00:15:59,338 --> 00:16:04,930
Now, I think that the the essence of your question kind of gets to something maybe a
little

204
00:16:04,930 --> 00:16:08,912
deeper as well, which is how does society operate, right?

205
00:16:08,912 --> 00:16:12,303
Like what does it mean to be a part of society?

206
00:16:13,153 --> 00:16:19,693
does it mean to buy everything that you see advertised on TV and to eat all the food that
kind of comes your way?

207
00:16:19,693 --> 00:16:21,677
I mean some people are living like that, right?

208
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And and they're kind of going with the flow and they're lacking intention.

209
00:16:24,938 --> 00:16:27,999
We don't judge them, but we ups we observe that.

210
00:16:28,099 --> 00:16:34,062
I think the kinds of people that you and I and others that we know and probably associate
with,

211
00:16:34,816 --> 00:16:36,407
We we don't think that way.

212
00:16:36,407 --> 00:16:43,273
We we recognize that there's there has to be intentionality, there has to be purpose, and
there is ultimate responsibility for the things we do.

213
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And even for other people around us.

214
00:16:45,655 --> 00:16:54,731
So, so I I uh you know, you can acknowledge that that's what's happening maybe culturally,
but I don't know to what extent it really affects the way I move or the way I think or the

215
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way that other people should.

216
00:16:56,098 --> 00:17:02,303
Yeah, I that's where I'm going, you know, culturally w coming from the question of is it
more cultural responsibility or is it individual?

217
00:17:02,303 --> 00:17:11,079
I'm somebody that says, Hey, we're responsible individually, but cultures affect us and
and the culture is the the house and maybe the church or the people you hang out with,

218
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:11,573
your friends.

219
00:17:11,573 --> 00:17:12,530
I mean, that's culture.

220
00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:14,882
Culture mostly isn't just the United States.

221
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Culture's your community, your local community.

222
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And can I so

223
00:17:18,647 --> 00:17:18,807
Time.

224
00:17:18,807 --> 00:17:22,090
Yeah, and I saw something yesterday is like I don't politics don't even matter.

225
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I'm registered independent now.

226
00:17:23,230 --> 00:17:24,702
I think I grew up Democratic.

227
00:17:24,702 --> 00:17:33,388
I could have defaulted towards this conservative slant of accountability at a young age,
but I'm independent because I just I just don't buy into any of it.

228
00:17:33,388 --> 00:17:34,949
But I heard Rahm Emanuel.

229
00:17:34,949 --> 00:17:41,364
I just read something either last night or yesterday where he was interviewed where he
said that, and this isn't about politics.

230
00:17:41,364 --> 00:17:43,556
You could say stuff about people on the right and Republicans.

231
00:17:43,556 --> 00:17:46,998
He said the Democratic Party has lost its way.

232
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And he said what what they're doing is he said at some point you have to acknowledge that
fifty of the top communities in the country, fifty percent of the kids aren't like

233
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kindergarten and reading ready.

234
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At what point are we gonna look at ourselves and take some responsibility to say, Hey,
somebody has to be responsible for this?

235
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And it seems like we've gone too far the other way.

236
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And so that's cultural.

237
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That's not an individual.

238
00:18:12,184 --> 00:18:12,695
Sure.

239
00:18:12,695 --> 00:18:15,598
Yeah, I I would agree with that, but there are a couple of things that I would I would
highlight.

240
00:18:15,598 --> 00:18:18,963
I mean, I'm sure that that's not really just applicable to Democratic kids.

241
00:18:18,963 --> 00:18:21,315
I'm sure it's also applicable to Republican kids.

242
00:18:21,315 --> 00:18:25,571
I said and the reason why I invoked Rom Emanuel 'cause people'd be my God, is he quoting
Rami Man?

243
00:18:25,571 --> 00:18:26,857
It's I'm independent, guys.

244
00:18:26,857 --> 00:18:27,396
So

245
00:18:27,396 --> 00:18:27,886
I I know.

246
00:18:27,886 --> 00:18:29,187
Yeah, I I I totally get it.

247
00:18:29,187 --> 00:18:37,753
Um, as it relates to children or people who are vulnerable, I mean, they're they're sort
of relying on others to lead, to lead them.

248
00:18:37,753 --> 00:18:43,466
But culture is still an amalgamation of the individuals and what we choose to do.

249
00:18:43,466 --> 00:18:53,632
Uh speaking of politicians, right, these are the people who help to truly uh influence
culture by loop laws and rules and expect expectations.

250
00:18:53,906 --> 00:18:56,428
and and and also the leaders of organizations and so forth.

251
00:18:56,428 --> 00:18:59,840
However, it still depends on what the individual does.

252
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:12,610
So clearly it it is difficult to change a culture, um, but we do have the opportunity and
we have seen groups kind of lobby and push and advocate for things that have changed the

253
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way that society operates or changed what is deemed appropriate in terms of what is said
and what is done.

254
00:19:19,344 --> 00:19:21,966
So and and that's that's all coming from

255
00:19:22,338 --> 00:19:31,704
groups of people and individuals as well, either working together as individuals as a part
of the group or following individuals as a group and then kind of scattering their

256
00:19:31,704 --> 00:19:32,665
influence.

257
00:19:32,665 --> 00:19:36,087
So so at the end of the day, yes, I mean it's like swimming against the current.

258
00:19:36,087 --> 00:19:45,934
Um, but if you have enough people, uh, you know, I don't know how many would need to
change the current, but I I'm pretty sure that if you have enough people creating waves

259
00:19:45,934 --> 00:19:50,077
and and fluttering around in the water, you know, you would be able to disrupt that,
right?

260
00:19:50,077 --> 00:19:52,288
So it's not easy.

261
00:19:52,716 --> 00:19:54,287
But it's not hopeless.

262
00:19:54,287 --> 00:19:59,542
Um, we're not helpless and we can navigate and I mean that's what we're trying to do here.

263
00:19:59,542 --> 00:20:00,753
I mean, you've got a podcast, right?

264
00:20:00,753 --> 00:20:02,294
There's a reason that you're doing that.

265
00:20:02,294 --> 00:20:07,128
It's not because you think that the culture can't be influenced or that people can't be
influenced.

266
00:20:07,128 --> 00:20:10,041
I mean, you're taking on issues, you're talking about things.

267
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I'm talking about things that uh kind of fly in the face of the of the cultural of of of
the expectation status quo and ways that we think we can make things better for people and

268
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for the culture.

269
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Yeah.

270
00:20:21,787 --> 00:20:31,353
So what does the new alpha in this new environment, what you're arguing in the book, what
where's the new alpha begin if we if we're leaving something, the old alpha, and someone

271
00:20:31,353 --> 00:20:38,437
is understanding how to transition to this, like what's it mean to thrive in this
environment as a man we're sitting here talking about?

272
00:20:38,437 --> 00:20:40,498
What where do you start with that?

273
00:20:42,166 --> 00:20:43,166
Right there.

274
00:20:43,386 --> 00:20:45,066
You start there and you start here.

275
00:20:45,066 --> 00:20:54,169
I mean, the the the idea is, and I talk about this sometimes, you know, people change
their behavior when there's a crisis, right?

276
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You have a heart attack, and you're like, God, I gotta stop eating fatty foods.

277
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Thank goodness I didn't die, et cetera, et cetera.

278
00:21:00,041 --> 00:21:03,072
You go to the doctor, you're diabetic, now you gotta change everything.

279
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Suppose you just decided to be intentional before any of that happened.

280
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You recognized your patterns.

281
00:21:11,606 --> 00:21:19,599
You knew that it wasn't good to eat a bucket of chicken at eleven PM and then go to sleep
or never exercise or overindulge.

282
00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:21,706
Like you know it's not a good idea.

283
00:21:21,706 --> 00:21:24,581
Um, so how about just being intentional at some point?

284
00:21:24,581 --> 00:21:28,053
So I think we don't need to wait for a crisis.

285
00:21:28,093 --> 00:21:40,108
What we do uh do need to do is to say, hey, am I on track living a life that I wanna live,
that I'm gonna be proud of, and that when I look back at it, I'm gonna say this was time

286
00:21:40,108 --> 00:21:41,118
well spent.

287
00:21:41,250 --> 00:21:48,574
The second thing is what are your stated values and what are your lived values?

288
00:21:48,734 --> 00:21:51,836
Because we there's a huge disconnect typically, right?

289
00:21:51,836 --> 00:22:00,581
You've got very successful, uh industrious guys, you know, men, women, whomever, who say,
I love my family.

290
00:22:00,581 --> 00:22:02,732
I my kids are my priority.

291
00:22:02,732 --> 00:22:03,772
Okay, they're your priority.

292
00:22:03,772 --> 00:22:05,493
There's 168 hours in the week.

293
00:22:05,493 --> 00:22:07,204
You spend eight with them.

294
00:22:07,344 --> 00:22:08,335
So are they your priority?

295
00:22:08,335 --> 00:22:10,668
Is this what you is this your lived reality?

296
00:22:10,668 --> 00:22:18,963
I think once we just take stock of where we are, of who we say we are and who we wanna be,
then reconciling becomes a lot easier.

297
00:22:18,963 --> 00:22:20,424
We shouldn't wait for a crisis.

298
00:22:20,424 --> 00:22:22,905
We should take responsibility for ourselves.

299
00:22:22,905 --> 00:22:29,790
It's not my boss is so hard to deal with and my boss, you know, always expects me to work
on the weekend.

300
00:22:29,790 --> 00:22:31,110
You're your boss.

301
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:32,511
So take responsibility for that.

302
00:22:32,511 --> 00:22:37,093
And I think once we do that, which is what resulted in my pivot, right?

303
00:22:37,626 --> 00:22:41,968
reconciling the fact that yeah, this is a great path to be on on paper.

304
00:22:42,068 --> 00:22:51,962
There was plenty of benefits from it, but I wasn't feeling fulfilled and my contribution
as I saw it or as I see it in the world was never going to be optimized if I continued on

305
00:22:51,962 --> 00:22:53,153
the path that I was on.

306
00:22:53,153 --> 00:23:00,016
And so I started t it took years of adjustment and tinkering and thinking and learning.

307
00:23:00,016 --> 00:23:05,608
But ultimately, uh, I've gotten on the path that I'm on where I think I'm going to be most
happy and make the biggest impact.

308
00:23:05,804 --> 00:23:07,336
What's happy mean to you?

309
00:23:08,366 --> 00:23:08,976
That's a good question.

310
00:23:08,976 --> 00:23:14,970
So I think I I I often think of happy as kind of laughing, right?

311
00:23:14,970 --> 00:23:18,452
Not that not that they're not that they're the same, but you'll see what I mean by this.

312
00:23:18,452 --> 00:23:20,953
We're not generally in a state of laughter.

313
00:23:20,953 --> 00:23:28,317
Like if someone was just laughing baseline, there would be no question as to whether
something was wrong with them, right?

314
00:23:28,317 --> 00:23:33,300
Uh to me, being happy is kind of a peak.

315
00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:38,082
Uh, but I rather think of myself as content.

316
00:23:38,144 --> 00:23:47,114
on an ongoing basis, or that's my objective baseline, and what contentment means to me or
for me is what I've kind of addressed that I'm feeling fulfilled and I'm contributing.

317
00:23:47,114 --> 00:23:55,274
I think happiness is when, you know, you're maybe even more mindful or you're reminded of
those opportunities and and of those contributions.

318
00:23:55,274 --> 00:23:59,467
Um, and you can look back through your intention and say, hey, you know what?

319
00:23:59,467 --> 00:24:00,357
I'm doing a good thing.

320
00:24:00,357 --> 00:24:01,358
I feel good about this.

321
00:24:01,358 --> 00:24:05,240
Uh it also could be something way lighter than the than that.

322
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:14,007
But to live a happy life is to me at first to live a contented life, one where you're
contributing, one where you feel value, one where you feel valued.

323
00:24:14,007 --> 00:24:18,571
And then having those kind of peaks, just like you'd have a have a nice laugh throughout
the day.

324
00:24:18,571 --> 00:24:20,362
I think you can feel happy throughout the day.

325
00:24:20,554 --> 00:24:24,563
Do you still feel like you have DNA inside you to be a high achiever?

326
00:24:26,740 --> 00:24:27,220
Yeah.

327
00:24:27,220 --> 00:24:31,734
I mean, I I think I think I'm on a path to high achievement, right?

328
00:24:31,734 --> 00:24:39,349
I think what I've done before is high achievement, maybe generally speaking, or by other
people's standards.

329
00:24:39,349 --> 00:24:43,672
I mean by my standards too, but within a very narrow framework, right?

330
00:24:43,672 --> 00:24:45,203
Within a silo.

331
00:24:45,203 --> 00:24:51,358
Where I want to do more things, I want to s synthesize schools of thought and disciplines.

332
00:24:51,358 --> 00:24:53,449
I want to spend my time as I would like to spend it.

333
00:24:53,449 --> 00:24:54,658
Um

334
00:24:54,658 --> 00:25:00,220
chasing and following and creating projects and paths, learning new things, going to
places when I want to.

335
00:25:00,220 --> 00:25:03,171
Uh to me that's what high achievement is.

336
00:25:03,171 --> 00:25:15,575
And it's also going to be measured not in terms of money or not in terms of a title and
and rungs that I achieve up a up a ladder, but by the breadth of people and places and

337
00:25:15,575 --> 00:25:19,306
things that I can influence over the course of the rest of my life.

338
00:25:20,807 --> 00:25:25,872
So I don't even want to use the word balance because it drives me crazy, because nothing
in my life is ever balanced.

339
00:25:25,872 --> 00:25:28,094
You maybe that'll be your word, but that's not my word.

340
00:25:28,094 --> 00:25:32,659
But how do you make this contentment?

341
00:25:32,940 --> 00:25:38,536
How do you make it flow like a river in with this elite performance at the same time?

342
00:25:39,246 --> 00:25:41,209
So why why do you not like balance?

343
00:25:41,591 --> 00:25:43,966
Or not not that you don't like balance, but why don't like the word?

344
00:25:43,966 --> 00:25:47,224
What does it denote what does it denote to you?

345
00:25:47,224 --> 00:25:48,685
Think here's what here's what I think the problem is.

346
00:25:48,685 --> 00:25:57,418
I think when the world uses it, I think they're talking about solving for something that's
not gonna lead them necessarily to high achievement.

347
00:25:57,418 --> 00:25:58,739
That's what I'm concerned about.

348
00:25:58,739 --> 00:26:07,503
Because I think balance thinks that you can turn something off and turn something else on
at the same time and you can consistently do that throughout a day.

349
00:26:07,503 --> 00:26:11,484
I've found if you want really high achievement, it all has to flow and work together.

350
00:26:11,484 --> 00:26:15,476
It doesn't mean that that has to be your entire life, but there are seasons

351
00:26:15,476 --> 00:26:26,341
Of when if people want to say balance, if I want to talk about their word, there are to
have high success, even with family, there's times you have to give more there to have a

352
00:26:26,341 --> 00:26:27,763
successful outcome.

353
00:26:27,763 --> 00:26:33,670
And so if somebody's talking about a baseline of balance all the time, I've never seen
that that's a successful outcome.

354
00:26:34,094 --> 00:26:39,078
So you're really going to enjoy uh the chapter in my book called Wobbling Well.

355
00:26:40,299 --> 00:26:45,804
because it challenges that presumption that a lot of people have around what balance is.

356
00:26:45,804 --> 00:26:49,027
Uh and I'm gonna get, you know, I'm gonna get to that here in a minute.

357
00:26:49,027 --> 00:26:51,529
But but you also, you know, you said some interesting things there.

358
00:26:51,529 --> 00:26:55,983
You you referenced high achievement um and success a couple of times.

359
00:26:55,983 --> 00:27:00,417
I think uh I'll I'll I'll challenge that a couple in a couple of ways.

360
00:27:00,417 --> 00:27:02,548
One, I don't know that.

361
00:27:03,256 --> 00:27:08,168
High achievement by any definition is really a requirement for anybody.

362
00:27:08,168 --> 00:27:20,653
I think it's something that is great if you can do it, good for you, but also for some
people, we consider our abilities or talents as a responsibility that should either

363
00:27:20,653 --> 00:27:29,557
naturally that naturally does lead to high achievement because it's maybe a little bit
easier, or something that we should leverage to do something interesting or to better the

364
00:27:29,557 --> 00:27:31,558
world around us, to better our own lives, right?

365
00:27:31,558 --> 00:27:32,318
So

366
00:27:32,364 --> 00:27:39,834
So I think I I mean, clearly I agree ah with you that high achievement has plenty of
value.

367
00:27:39,834 --> 00:27:42,388
I just don't know that everyone is capable of high achievement.

368
00:27:42,388 --> 00:27:44,119
Otherwise, what would high achievement be?

369
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,440
And I don't know that everyone should necessarily seek it.

370
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:57,515
Um, but with the understanding that everyone can define it or should define it in their
own way and not be stuck to a homogenous or kind of a some central definition of what it

371
00:27:57,515 --> 00:28:00,862
is because it's just not gonna be what's gonna make everyone happy.

372
00:28:00,862 --> 00:28:02,413
um or or or feel fulfilled.

373
00:28:02,413 --> 00:28:03,964
So that's that's one thing.

374
00:28:04,325 --> 00:28:07,427
The second thing is balance.

375
00:28:07,427 --> 00:28:13,956
So I think about uh, you know, those old fashioned clocks with the pendulum when it kind
of ticks, or just a pendulum at all.

376
00:28:13,956 --> 00:28:15,332
It doesn't have to be a clock.

377
00:28:15,672 --> 00:28:26,180
If you take a snapshot, ten snapshots, a hundred snapshots of that pendulum when it's in
in motion, almost never will you find that it's completely up and down, straight up,

378
00:28:26,180 --> 00:28:27,000
straight down.

379
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,982
It's gonna be some degree of tilt.

380
00:28:29,982 --> 00:28:31,723
one way or another.

381
00:28:31,943 --> 00:28:42,247
But at the end of the day, when you observe that pendulum or you think of like Newton's
cradle, it's still operating within a framework and it's still actually kind of balanced.

382
00:28:42,247 --> 00:28:47,790
And so in the book, I talk about I use the analogy of professional cyclists.

383
00:28:47,790 --> 00:28:53,472
When you see people like sprinting to the finish line of the Tour de France, the bicycle
is not straight up and down.

384
00:28:53,472 --> 00:28:57,214
It's someone violently left to right.

385
00:28:57,214 --> 00:28:58,124
But

386
00:28:58,390 --> 00:29:02,032
What do we think about when we think of uh riding a bicycle and not falling down?

387
00:29:02,032 --> 00:29:03,092
Balance.

388
00:29:03,153 --> 00:29:04,163
So that's what's required.

389
00:29:04,163 --> 00:29:13,208
And the example that you gave is perfect, a perfect example where if you are sick or
someone around you is sick, you're gonna have to and you ought to put more time and energy

390
00:29:13,208 --> 00:29:19,642
there than at work or you know, maybe you have to skip your yoga class or your golf round
or whatever it is.

391
00:29:19,642 --> 00:29:21,903
But that doesn't mean that you're not balanced.

392
00:29:22,344 --> 00:29:26,838
A lot of people will think balance means 24 hours a day divided into

393
00:29:26,838 --> 00:29:31,522
Three segments or six segments, and that I can only work exactly this number of hours,
right?

394
00:29:31,522 --> 00:29:36,125
I have to spread myself in this very narrow measure or time frame.

395
00:29:36,446 --> 00:29:37,457
That's not it at all.

396
00:29:37,457 --> 00:29:41,510
There are six there are seasons, there are cycles where we just need to do more.

397
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:44,712
Um and so that's fine, but that doesn't mean you're not balanced.

398
00:29:44,712 --> 00:29:52,098
What it means is you should be intentional about evaluating how much or for how long
you've gone askew.

399
00:29:52,278 --> 00:29:59,806
relative to the other things that are important in your life and make sure that you can
get those back into back into ba balance, as I would say.

400
00:30:00,538 --> 00:30:07,020
So let me take the high achievement and just dig a little bit deeper on this to ask if
this connects with you or or what your thoughts are on it.

401
00:30:07,020 --> 00:30:15,143
Um about just being the best at whatever you're doing as an individual, not compared to
anyone else in a high achievement metric.

402
00:30:15,143 --> 00:30:16,043
Yep.

403
00:30:17,763 --> 00:30:27,016
Because that's what I've always done is that I'm not competing with myself in an unhealthy
way, but I'm a having having a very highly intelligent

404
00:30:27,391 --> 00:30:37,970
um, emotional intelligent conversation with my with myself, is this outcome that I'm
getting and this effort that I'm giving, is it enough for the life that I want?

405
00:30:38,318 --> 00:30:38,898
Yeah.

406
00:30:38,898 --> 00:30:43,589
No, I mean look, I think I think that's I think that's that's smart and that's the way to
to think about it.

407
00:30:43,589 --> 00:30:51,222
I would say if you're thinking about what is enough, I don't know that that's necessarily
the highest achievement, but it can still be high.

408
00:30:51,222 --> 00:30:58,724
And so to illustrate that point, uh I remember I had uh I was going to have a drink with a
buddy of mine.

409
00:30:58,724 --> 00:31:01,524
We were in the Bahamas and we were walking and he's got two kids.

410
00:31:01,524 --> 00:31:05,545
I've got one daughter who's uh young quite a bit younger than his children.

411
00:31:06,106 --> 00:31:07,200
And he said what

412
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:16,250
Everybody's parents around there probably has said for generations, I want my children to
reach their full potential.

413
00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:17,556
That's what he said.

414
00:31:17,556 --> 00:31:18,486
And I've heard that plenty.

415
00:31:18,486 --> 00:31:28,361
Uh but just in that moment, even though it resonated and I recognized the familiarity of
it, it somehow didn't quite sit right.

416
00:31:28,562 --> 00:31:33,324
And I s and I and I'll never forget that moment because it was an ep when I sort of had an
epiphany.

417
00:31:33,324 --> 00:31:34,165
And I said, You know what?

418
00:31:34,165 --> 00:31:36,662
I think I want my daughter

419
00:31:36,662 --> 00:31:40,143
To live a life of contentment and contribution.

420
00:31:40,943 --> 00:31:50,786
And I don't know that that necessarily means that she's going to live to her fullest
potential, because now you're talking about potentially a Steve Jobs or somebody else who

421
00:31:50,786 --> 00:31:55,167
frankly doesn't seem to have lived a particularly happy life, right?

422
00:31:55,277 --> 00:31:59,808
but who contributed immensely in their fields of chosen desire.

423
00:31:59,808 --> 00:32:03,359
So so what does it mean to live to your highest potential?

424
00:32:03,359 --> 00:32:05,890
It probably means living a life out of balance.

425
00:32:06,242 --> 00:32:06,932
Right.

426
00:32:06,932 --> 00:32:14,508
if if I ask you Mark, I said, look, I need you know, you're a podcaster, you're a you're a
provocator, you're a thinker, you're a challenger.

427
00:32:14,508 --> 00:32:19,311
I need I need you to live up to your highest potential in those realms.

428
00:32:19,312 --> 00:32:25,196
Well, then you're not gonna be able to live up to your highest potential as a parent or as
a family member.

429
00:32:25,196 --> 00:32:27,178
You won't be truest to yourself.

430
00:32:27,178 --> 00:32:33,542
So I do challenge the I recently have come to challenge, you know, this notion of being
the highest, you know, l

431
00:32:33,728 --> 00:32:38,851
Achieving my highest potential, which has always been up to that point, sort of my goal.

432
00:32:40,738 --> 00:32:41,800
it's t it's a tough one.

433
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:42,352
I I think

434
00:32:42,352 --> 00:32:43,482
what we do with it, right?

435
00:32:43,482 --> 00:32:47,908
So not even for ourselves, if let's go down that path of that theory.

436
00:32:47,908 --> 00:32:53,874
Um if you're evaluating it and going there yourself, what do we do with that?

437
00:32:54,062 --> 00:32:55,123
Well, what's enough?

438
00:32:55,123 --> 00:33:01,548
Like you like you said in one of your earlier comments um just a couple minutes ago, you
know, you used the word enough.

439
00:33:01,668 --> 00:33:06,832
And that resonated because I mean you can go out and make more money.

440
00:33:07,253 --> 00:33:16,470
It might not be as easy, or it may become incrementally more difficult, but you still
could, but it's gonna require a trade-off, right?

441
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:20,213
You could stay up a couple hours later and sleep a little bit less.

442
00:33:20,213 --> 00:33:22,225
It's gonna require a trade-off.

443
00:33:22,225 --> 00:33:23,898
So at the end of the day,

444
00:33:23,898 --> 00:33:27,901
you defining what is enough and knowing why you do things.

445
00:33:27,901 --> 00:33:30,292
So you n you you you know, you want an expensive watch.

446
00:33:30,292 --> 00:33:33,405
I like watches, uh I like art, I like whatever.

447
00:33:33,405 --> 00:33:35,126
But how many do I need?

448
00:33:35,126 --> 00:33:36,507
How many shoes do I need?

449
00:33:36,507 --> 00:33:41,770
And how much of my life am I trading for the money that I'm trading for those things?

450
00:33:41,770 --> 00:33:43,932
Do they add more to me?

451
00:33:43,932 --> 00:33:46,013
Or do I have enough?

452
00:33:46,013 --> 00:33:53,080
Which means I can then focus my energy or use my resources elsewhere to do other things
and to accrue other benefits or to

453
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,351
Do other things for other people.

454
00:33:54,351 --> 00:33:58,730
So I think the key is figuring out what is enough, what is your motivation?

455
00:33:58,730 --> 00:34:08,888
Do you want that watch because you just love, you know, the architecture and and and y you
know, you love horology or are you buying it because you wanna prove to other people that

456
00:34:08,888 --> 00:34:11,400
you're at a certain status and that you can fit in.

457
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,161
You know, those those are the things we really need to consider.

458
00:34:14,284 --> 00:34:15,055
Yeah.

459
00:34:15,055 --> 00:34:20,047
Do you think reverse engineering an outcome versus what you're saying your intended goal
is or inverting it?

460
00:34:20,047 --> 00:34:26,421
'Cause you can get there, you can you can almost clearly define how to get from A to B by
doing that.

461
00:34:26,421 --> 00:34:28,342
Do you think that's healthy or no?

462
00:34:29,005 --> 00:34:30,645
I think I think you should do both.

463
00:34:30,846 --> 00:34:37,769
I think you should figure out, you know, you should figure out what your goals and
objectives truly are for your own purposes.

464
00:34:38,069 --> 00:34:40,810
Then you figure out, just like anything else, how do I get there?

465
00:34:40,810 --> 00:34:41,060
Right.

466
00:34:41,060 --> 00:34:46,913
We all know about smart goals, specific, measurable, attainable, all the rest of it, time,
time bound.

467
00:34:46,913 --> 00:34:49,414
So that's going forward, that's forward looking.

468
00:34:49,414 --> 00:34:58,776
But we should also add that lens that I I think I touched on earlier, which is when I'm at
the end of life or close enough to it, when I look backwards.

469
00:34:58,776 --> 00:35:00,948
Do I think that that was gonna be a use of time?

470
00:35:00,948 --> 00:35:07,512
But when I put it on the scale of an entire life, do I think that that's gonna be a a life
that was well examined and well spent?

471
00:35:07,512 --> 00:35:10,794
And so I I think we gotta go forward and backwards.

472
00:35:10,914 --> 00:35:14,902
So how did you get here from starting out as a CPA?

473
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:19,193
Uh, by recognizing that I didn't like it.

474
00:35:19,193 --> 00:35:19,973
I never liked it.

475
00:35:19,973 --> 00:35:21,454
I knew I didn't like it.

476
00:35:21,925 --> 00:35:25,919
so when I was when I was younger, I loved biology.

477
00:35:25,919 --> 00:35:28,640
High school that was my favorite subject, biology.

478
00:35:30,282 --> 00:35:31,814
and I was thinking I'd be a doctor.

479
00:35:31,814 --> 00:35:35,607
And then I had just turned 17.

480
00:35:35,607 --> 00:35:39,681
My little brother just turned 10 and he died uh relatively suddenly.

481
00:35:39,681 --> 00:35:43,884
And I was like, Yeah, I don't think I want to be around hospitals, I don't want to deal
with this.

482
00:35:43,958 --> 00:35:48,640
So my dad was sort of like, Yeah, you should be a doctor, you know, go go for that.

483
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:58,684
And then uh my mother was saying, Well, you know, the world needs accountants, maybe you
could do accounting since you seem to have an interest in business.

484
00:35:58,724 --> 00:36:02,956
And so I couldn't think of anything better to do, and I just started doing accounting.

485
00:36:02,956 --> 00:36:09,549
Uh ended up with a master's working at Deloitte, eventually got a CPA and some other
licenses.

486
00:36:09,549 --> 00:36:11,860
And for the most part, those things were interesting.

487
00:36:11,860 --> 00:36:13,480
Uh but

488
00:36:13,526 --> 00:36:15,728
It didn't feel like a life of my own choosing.

489
00:36:15,728 --> 00:36:20,912
And so I built a career of 25 years on all of that.

490
00:36:21,113 --> 00:36:21,903
And it was good.

491
00:36:21,903 --> 00:36:27,118
Uh, very fortunate, very privileged, and I'm happy uh for for what that was.

492
00:36:27,118 --> 00:36:33,824
But it also taught me that this isn't what you want to do, and you don't have to keep
doing it, right?

493
00:36:33,824 --> 00:36:38,768
Um, you're not feeling fulfilled, and you're not gonna be more fulfilled doing this.

494
00:36:38,768 --> 00:36:41,900
I looked up the hierarchy and I thought.

495
00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:47,472
I don't really wanna be like I don't wanna live or work like any of these people.

496
00:36:47,472 --> 00:36:47,732
Right.

497
00:36:47,732 --> 00:36:55,004
They may be great people outside of work or, you know, maybe sometimes I'd see them
outside of the workplace and I would think, okay, yeah, you're not a bad person.

498
00:36:55,004 --> 00:36:57,814
You're you're kind of interesting or you're funny or whatever the case is.

499
00:36:57,814 --> 00:37:02,346
But at the end of the day, do I want to work and live the way they work and live?

500
00:37:02,346 --> 00:37:10,028
I'll take their paycheck, I'll take their influence, but I don't wanna take their li I
don't want I don't want their lives the way that I see it, or certainly not their

501
00:37:10,028 --> 00:37:11,212
professional lives.

502
00:37:11,212 --> 00:37:15,314
And so once it became clear, it's like, what am I working hard to climb a ladder?

503
00:37:15,314 --> 00:37:16,875
And I don't even want to be on this ladder.

504
00:37:16,875 --> 00:37:29,023
I just read maybe a couple of days ago, I forget uh where the quote comes from, but it was
it was something akin to, you know, being successful climbing a ladder uh on the wrong

505
00:37:29,023 --> 00:37:30,894
wall isn't really success.

506
00:37:30,894 --> 00:37:32,114
Something like that.

507
00:37:32,445 --> 00:37:35,857
and so I I decided I don't want to be on that ladder, I wanna do something that's more
broad.

508
00:37:35,857 --> 00:37:38,398
I want to be on a lattice and of my choosing.

509
00:37:39,586 --> 00:37:50,963
So with writing these books and this leadership and this new this new life that you're
weaning into, would you go back and tell the Kenyatta fifteen years ago, would you go back

510
00:37:50,963 --> 00:37:58,157
and teach him or have him read things or have him learn the things sooner?

511
00:37:58,177 --> 00:38:01,199
Or was the jer full journey necessary to arrive here?

512
00:38:01,199 --> 00:38:06,642
Because I asked that question and how do we lead and advise and mentor younger folks than
us now?

513
00:38:07,182 --> 00:38:07,823
Sure.

514
00:38:07,823 --> 00:38:11,085
I mean I think it's I think it's a a com a combined approach, right?

515
00:38:11,085 --> 00:38:14,709
Um I don't really feel like anything that I experienced was wasted.

516
00:38:14,709 --> 00:38:21,835
Um because if I was smart enough to get there or good enough to get there sooner, I would
have gotten there sooner.

517
00:38:21,835 --> 00:38:33,155
Um now yeah, I could go back and give myself some some advice, but frankly, a lot of the
things that resonate with us and that kind of hit are pieces of advice that we've already

518
00:38:33,155 --> 00:38:34,206
heard before.

519
00:38:34,604 --> 00:38:36,295
It's things that people have already told us.

520
00:38:36,295 --> 00:38:44,828
It's things we've already been seeing, but just didn't resonate, didn't make sense because
we weren't, you know, we weren't supple enough or or the the soil wasn't fertile enough

521
00:38:44,828 --> 00:38:46,866
for those things to to take hold.

522
00:38:46,866 --> 00:38:54,883
And I think the the the the experiences and the education, the conversations, the places
we go, um, those are all the things that kind of get us ready.

523
00:38:54,883 --> 00:38:59,825
Um, I probably would encourage myself to take more risks sooner.

524
00:38:59,825 --> 00:39:02,070
Um but

525
00:39:02,070 --> 00:39:09,932
In terms of the experience, there really isn't too much that I can say that I really
regret, uh, knowing I mean, obviously fifteen years ago, who wouldn't have who wouldn't

526
00:39:09,932 --> 00:39:15,402
have bought Bitcoin or who wouldn't have invested in NVIDIA or y you know what I mean?

527
00:39:15,402 --> 00:39:16,464
I don't

528
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:17,820
Exactly.

529
00:39:17,820 --> 00:39:18,131
Right.

530
00:39:18,131 --> 00:39:19,171
Y you Netflix.

531
00:39:19,171 --> 00:39:24,684
I mean, these are the types of things that, yeah, some some future information and
knowledge would help with.

532
00:39:24,684 --> 00:39:28,376
But I think, you know, it's kind of like what happens with butterflies, right?

533
00:39:28,376 --> 00:39:37,172
Um, in order for a butterfly and you you probably know this, in order for a butterfly to
be able to fly, it has to struggle to get out of the cocoon.

534
00:39:37,172 --> 00:39:44,728
Like if you open up the cocoon, you're actually depriving it of the process that allows
its wings to fill with fluid that can

535
00:39:44,728 --> 00:39:47,740
provides the framework and the strength for them to fly.

536
00:39:47,741 --> 00:39:56,789
So I think a lot of the the the the the tension and the challenges and the frustrations,
all of that stuff, you know, we say it builds character, but I think it builds the

537
00:39:56,789 --> 00:39:58,730
framework for for the future you.

538
00:40:01,242 --> 00:40:05,887
So I go back of this guy I'm sitting here talking to I don't know why we track this in
years.

539
00:40:05,887 --> 00:40:09,310
It's like when we were first humans, what we what we track it in, I don't know.

540
00:40:09,310 --> 00:40:12,032
Is it but we're sitting here at 47 years.

541
00:40:12,593 --> 00:40:23,242
And from what I've learned about this human experience myself, when I used to have leaders
and managers and me being a mentor now, this experience.

542
00:40:25,953 --> 00:40:27,295
I'm assuming

543
00:40:28,930 --> 00:40:39,154
That the ten and twelve and fourteen and sixteen year old you was a curious, smart boy
with a good attitude.

544
00:40:41,228 --> 00:40:42,118
Yeah.

545
00:40:43,101 --> 00:40:47,266
I mean, yeah, simply put, I mean of course I wasn't perfect, but um

546
00:40:53,634 --> 00:40:54,414
Yeah, no, absolutely.

547
00:40:54,414 --> 00:40:55,435
I and I think that's right.

548
00:40:55,435 --> 00:41:00,554
Um my parents were extremely engaged uh with me growing up, with us growing up.

549
00:41:00,554 --> 00:41:05,046
You know, there were books you know around the house all the time, um and things we spoke
about.

550
00:41:05,046 --> 00:41:10,841
I was challenged regularly to think, um, when I didn't even want to or didn't like it.

551
00:41:10,841 --> 00:41:14,252
Um but but yeah, I asked a lot of questions.

552
00:41:14,252 --> 00:41:17,544
I was always you know, I I say to people I was always an auditor.

553
00:41:17,704 --> 00:41:19,575
You know, before I knew that I was one.

554
00:41:19,575 --> 00:41:23,486
I I didn't dream of becoming an auditor, but I was already one.

555
00:41:23,688 --> 00:41:27,310
Um, I always look for patterns, I always synthesize things.

556
00:41:27,310 --> 00:41:39,187
Uh, I remember my French teacher in I think eighth or ninth grade told my mother at at at
the PTA, I think French has maybe 16 irregular verbs or something like that.

557
00:41:39,888 --> 00:41:48,953
And she said, Kenyatta needs to uh stop questioning why this verb isn't conjugated like
that verb and just learn the verbs.

558
00:41:49,394 --> 00:41:50,554
And um

559
00:41:50,594 --> 00:41:59,765
You know, I can completely understand that because my question isn't going to change the
French language, but I think that was a very narrow application, understandably, because

560
00:41:59,765 --> 00:42:01,627
we're talking French and she was my French teacher.

561
00:42:01,627 --> 00:42:03,838
That's the capacity in which she knew me.

562
00:42:03,838 --> 00:42:10,740
But the idea that I would be looking at patterns and saying, why isn't this the way or why
doesn't that make sense?

563
00:42:10,740 --> 00:42:18,322
is what I think has allowed me to have such a broad understanding of, you know, different
topics and an interest in people and and places around the world.

564
00:42:19,162 --> 00:42:32,726
Okay, so if that led you here, and obviously I asked that question to get here, let's say
that someone isn't as fortunate to be exposed to that environment in whatever way, and

565
00:42:32,726 --> 00:42:36,847
they just didn't develop, their brain didn't develop the same way.

566
00:42:38,107 --> 00:42:41,668
And they're sitting here at twenty five years old listening to this.

567
00:42:41,668 --> 00:42:42,588
Mm-hmm.

568
00:42:42,789 --> 00:42:48,482
They have a lot more infrastructure they need to work on, get to that baseline.

569
00:42:48,482 --> 00:42:50,004
to then be able to go down this path.

570
00:42:50,004 --> 00:42:59,669
So not only just necessary advice, but if you're sitting around a fireside chat with two
or three or four folks that didn't have the opportunity to be around that environment,

571
00:42:59,669 --> 00:43:04,446
could have been a teacher, happen to be your parents, what do they do?

572
00:43:05,486 --> 00:43:06,587
Be intentional.

573
00:43:06,587 --> 00:43:08,378
So there are a couple things I would say.

574
00:43:08,378 --> 00:43:10,790
First of all, you don't need to be like me.

575
00:43:10,790 --> 00:43:11,678
They don't need to be like me.

576
00:43:11,678 --> 00:43:14,374
They don't need to be like you, um, in specific.

577
00:43:14,374 --> 00:43:15,775
And I think that's a big problem, right?

578
00:43:15,775 --> 00:43:19,027
You read all these articles about, well, what does Jeff Bezos eat for breakfast?

579
00:43:19,027 --> 00:43:21,019
And when does Bill Gates get up in the morning?

580
00:43:21,019 --> 00:43:22,581
That's that's nonsense, right?

581
00:43:22,581 --> 00:43:27,624
And and it's not gonna make you a billionaire, it's not gonna make you anything except
frustrated, most likely.

582
00:43:28,045 --> 00:43:34,280
So you don't wanna necessarily be like me in in the manifestations necessarily, but

583
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:40,415
The keys are just being curious, and you can start out wherever you are with whatever you
have.

584
00:43:40,415 --> 00:43:44,498
And especially if you say, Well, you're 25, well, then that gives you 22 years from now.

585
00:43:44,498 --> 00:43:46,720
That's almost a full other life.

586
00:43:46,921 --> 00:43:57,439
And you have resources, information, access, speed, data, tools that I couldn't even have
imagined at 25.

587
00:43:57,439 --> 00:44:03,358
Uh, and so the ease with which you can have uh books and knowledge.

588
00:44:03,358 --> 00:44:04,918
You just listen to, right?

589
00:44:04,918 --> 00:44:05,990
I mean, think about it.

590
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:08,331
Audiobooks, podcasts, those things run around.

591
00:44:08,331 --> 00:44:20,099
Uh, you can instead of sort of, you know, hypnotizing yourself with certain songs and
other things that are nonsensical, which I love music and I also like nonsense, sometimes,

592
00:44:20,099 --> 00:44:20,279
right?

593
00:44:20,279 --> 00:44:21,990
So I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that.

594
00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:29,016
But but use what's available to you, but most importantly, find the areas of interest.

595
00:44:29,016 --> 00:44:36,241
things that you genuinely are interested in because those are going to be the things that
you're going to learn and pick up fastest, you're going to be most excited about and

596
00:44:36,241 --> 00:44:38,853
probably can do, you know, do the most with.

597
00:44:38,853 --> 00:44:41,615
So I think just it's really about being intentional.

598
00:44:41,615 --> 00:44:46,459
It's about having a plan, uh, breaking your plan down into milestones.

599
00:44:46,459 --> 00:44:54,485
I would encourage anybody who is thinking about this to go and understand or research
SMART goals, SMART being an acronym, and I think I touched on that already.

600
00:44:54,485 --> 00:44:56,926
And then just kind of take it step by step.

601
00:44:58,330 --> 00:45:01,451
What do you think entrepreneurs, we have a few more minutes here.

602
00:45:01,451 --> 00:45:08,479
What you think entrepreneurs misunderstood or misunderstand about leadership that you
learned the hard way in corporate America?

603
00:45:08,479 --> 00:45:11,442
Because now you live that life for twenty something years now.

604
00:45:11,442 --> 00:45:15,905
What do you think entrepreneurs because you're here now, you're doing it, you're all in.

605
00:45:16,967 --> 00:45:25,854
What's misunderstood that you learned the hard way in corporate America if we haven't ever
spent our lives there that we don't know or we misunderstood?

606
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:32,974
That's great question because I think entrepreneurs know a lot of things that a lot of
people in corporate America never learn.

607
00:45:32,974 --> 00:45:37,774
uh but I would say

608
00:45:37,774 --> 00:45:38,425
We can go there.

609
00:45:38,425 --> 00:45:41,672
For example, before we go to the question, what do you think some of those are?

610
00:45:42,350 --> 00:45:50,135
Well, I mean, I think some of those are uh the importance of risk taking and building
things while you you know, building the plane while you fly it.

611
00:45:51,336 --> 00:45:55,850
and knowing that the fastest way to get to s success is through a bunch of failures.

612
00:45:55,850 --> 00:45:57,931
I think a lot of people are afraid of failure.

613
00:45:57,931 --> 00:46:07,208
A lot of people are accustomed to being A students or accustomed to, you know, getting
great reviews and they're afraid to take chances because they don't want to mess that up,

614
00:46:07,208 --> 00:46:07,808
right?

615
00:46:07,808 --> 00:46:10,826
And so they become sort of slaves or or

616
00:46:10,826 --> 00:46:22,489
in encaged but caged by by their desire not to make a mistake and entrepreneurs generally
don't have that they may have that that frustration that tension or the desire obviously

617
00:46:22,489 --> 00:46:29,551
nobody wants to intentionally make mistakes but their ability to recover and their
understanding of that being a part of the process I think is superior.

618
00:46:29,551 --> 00:46:40,332
Um I would say to answer your original question, maybe entrepreneurs or people in smaller
businesses, they may not appreciate

619
00:46:40,332 --> 00:46:45,605
the the power of a network quite as much or the power the power of certain types of
relationships.

620
00:46:45,605 --> 00:46:55,731
I mean, they would again have their own brand of relationships, their own brand of
networks that maybe other people don't see, but certainly, you know, understanding um

621
00:46:55,731 --> 00:47:05,986
certain nuance, understanding uh political environ the political environment within large
companies, for example, may not necessarily be something that they might know.

622
00:47:05,986 --> 00:47:09,122
But again, it might not be something that they necessarily have to deal with.

623
00:47:09,122 --> 00:47:19,256
But understanding, you know, just how many decisions that you may think you're making
individually or independently are actually influenced by other people and and things that

624
00:47:19,256 --> 00:47:28,729
you don't even know exist, um, is something that I definitely learned in corporate America
and may not necessarily be the case for people in smaller cup smaller companies or whether

625
00:47:28,729 --> 00:47:30,030
they're the entrepreneur.

626
00:47:30,262 --> 00:47:35,894
So when we talked about risk, you said maybe if you would have gone back that you don't
have regrets, but you would have taken more risks.

627
00:47:35,894 --> 00:47:38,198
What do you think that would have looked like?

628
00:47:38,574 --> 00:47:41,156
Well it look like it would have looked like uh companies.

629
00:47:41,156 --> 00:47:46,751
It would have look like, um, even though I have moved from different places and done
different things, I might have moved sooner.

630
00:47:46,751 --> 00:47:52,716
I might have spent a shorter amount of time, you know, in in one place and and spent more
time going other places.

631
00:47:52,716 --> 00:48:02,173
I might have spent uh more money traveling and seeing more of the world, even though I've
seen you know, pretty significant portion of the world.

632
00:48:02,173 --> 00:48:04,155
I I've been to several dozen co countries.

633
00:48:04,155 --> 00:48:07,528
Um, but maybe I would have done more of that, right?

634
00:48:07,528 --> 00:48:08,012
I would have

635
00:48:08,012 --> 00:48:10,922
I would have written m sooner.

636
00:48:10,922 --> 00:48:16,336
You know, there are there are a number of different things I probably would have done a
little differently, um, or a different mindset.

637
00:48:16,336 --> 00:48:21,748
But I think it probably would have started with uh smaller companies or or or doing some
of that sort of thing.

638
00:48:21,748 --> 00:48:32,293
One other thing I would say quickly is having an investment property first, even though I
invested in the places that I have lived.

639
00:48:32,293 --> 00:48:34,934
I think, you know, continuing to rent.

640
00:48:35,084 --> 00:48:40,765
having a cheap rent, but using money to have uh an investment property that also kinda
paid for itself.

641
00:48:40,765 --> 00:48:42,948
I think that's something that I definitely would have done differently.

642
00:48:42,948 --> 00:48:46,835
But again, that comes across as as being certainly a lot more risky, right?

643
00:48:46,835 --> 00:48:47,116
Yeah.

644
00:48:47,116 --> 00:48:48,948
If you've never done it before and if you're young.

645
00:48:49,516 --> 00:48:55,516
So you talked a little bit about network a little bit, but in this context, how important
is our network?

646
00:48:56,024 --> 00:48:56,815
Critical.

647
00:48:56,815 --> 00:49:02,098
It's critical because, you know, the people that we associate with influence how we think.

648
00:49:02,098 --> 00:49:12,996
They influence, even if they don't change our actual thoughts or introduce actual
thoughts, which of course they do, but but separately they support or challenge our own

649
00:49:12,996 --> 00:49:24,664
thinking uh in ways that can be m quite critical, quite useful, um, and in some ways can
be quite uh quite, you know, uh challenging and and not positive.

650
00:49:24,664 --> 00:49:26,165
So if you have the wrong network.

651
00:49:26,165 --> 00:49:27,025
So that's really important.

652
00:49:27,025 --> 00:49:30,978
The second thing is you can't do very much by yourself, right?

653
00:49:30,978 --> 00:49:33,459
You couldn't be born into this world by yourself.

654
00:49:33,459 --> 00:49:35,080
You couldn't come into being by yourself.

655
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:45,266
Uh and there's just so much that we owe other people debts of gratitude for, uh, even from
picking up your trash and making your meals or stitching up your clothes so that you can

656
00:49:45,266 --> 00:49:47,427
just go and easily buy something that fits you.

657
00:49:47,427 --> 00:49:49,528
I mean, there's just so much interrelation.

658
00:49:49,528 --> 00:49:53,100
Uh and so understanding that is is really critical.

659
00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:59,910
And I think understanding the value of your network and how to formulate a good network um
is is just as important, if not more important.

660
00:50:00,116 --> 00:50:00,606
Awesome.

661
00:50:00,606 --> 00:50:03,028
Hey, to wrap this up to hand it back over to you.

662
00:50:03,028 --> 00:50:05,469
Um, you talked about being intentional.

663
00:50:05,469 --> 00:50:15,986
And so you out here on podcasts on writing the books and stuff, take take 30 or second
sixty seconds and talk about your intentionality now, about what you're building, um, why

664
00:50:15,986 --> 00:50:16,636
you're doing it.

665
00:50:16,636 --> 00:50:25,052
So a little bit of a a marketing platform for Kenyatta, but talk about the intentionality
on what you're doing, what your your your goals are and and how you want to interact with

666
00:50:25,052 --> 00:50:25,812
people.

667
00:50:26,264 --> 00:50:27,004
Well, couple things.

668
00:50:27,004 --> 00:50:35,418
I mean, so I'll talk about me a little bit, but it's really rooted in, you know, partly
me, but what I think other people seem to be craving and what they're capable of.

669
00:50:35,418 --> 00:50:41,350
So I've been doing therapy for about four and a half years, which up to a year ago I I
never told more than two people, one of whom was my mother.

670
00:50:41,350 --> 00:50:54,826
And but um one of the things that was I I would say in i really critical is understanding
that the wisdom is kind of in you and that the therapy can help you to release that,

671
00:50:54,826 --> 00:50:55,988
unveil that.

672
00:50:55,988 --> 00:50:57,690
organize it so that it makes sense.

673
00:50:57,690 --> 00:50:59,901
And I believe that that's the case for a lot of people.

674
00:50:59,901 --> 00:51:10,310
Um and so the things that I've learned and the experiences that I've had as a result of,
you know, therapy, as a result of education programs and my own experience, I want other

675
00:51:10,310 --> 00:51:11,862
people to be able to experience that.

676
00:51:11,862 --> 00:51:14,314
And I think other people are capable of experiencing it.

677
00:51:14,314 --> 00:51:23,948
And I think if you can make and and I'm quoting somebody else, but if you can help each
individual or an individual achieve personal peace or inner peace.

678
00:51:23,948 --> 00:51:27,160
We can help the world get closer to world peace, right?

679
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:36,365
And so I'm not, you know, Desmond Tuchu are giving you the big, you know, let's solve all
the world's problems kind of a a spiel, but I think it's our responsibility to influence

680
00:51:36,365 --> 00:51:39,666
our circle, our societies, our communities, and that's how I'm trying to do it.

681
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:40,271
Awesome.

682
00:51:40,271 --> 00:51:40,732
Okay.

683
00:51:40,732 --> 00:51:41,684
You got the second book.

684
00:51:41,684 --> 00:51:42,615
You kinda hit on that.

685
00:51:42,615 --> 00:51:45,922
But um what do you want everybody from listening to this to fifty minutes?

686
00:51:45,922 --> 00:51:48,206
What do you what do you want to weave on top of that?

687
00:51:48,206 --> 00:51:53,054
Um, what's their thoughts you want as they finish listening to this that you want them to
have?

688
00:51:53,752 --> 00:51:54,282
They're capable.

689
00:51:54,282 --> 00:51:55,634
They can do whatever they want to do.

690
00:51:55,634 --> 00:51:57,825
Uh they can push the boundaries.

691
00:51:57,825 --> 00:51:59,246
They're not trapped.

692
00:51:59,427 --> 00:52:02,700
and they not only owe it to themselves, but they owe it to the people around them.

693
00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:14,020
Uh they owe it to their kids, they owe it to their partners, they owe it to their
neighbors, to be uh as good as they can be as long as it doesn't interrupt their balance

694
00:52:14,020 --> 00:52:19,245
or as we've discussed it or as we've defined it, um, and their mental health or their
physical health.

695
00:52:19,245 --> 00:52:20,568
Give what you can give.

696
00:52:20,568 --> 00:52:22,939
Give a little extra, but don't deprive yourself of it.

697
00:52:22,939 --> 00:52:24,440
And you can seek that balance.

698
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:32,583
And so people can find, um, just quickly, they can find a little bit more about that and
my work at at executiveparent.com.

699
00:52:32,953 --> 00:52:35,244
my book is available on Amazon.

700
00:52:35,244 --> 00:52:37,085
I also narrated the audiobook.

701
00:52:37,085 --> 00:52:41,127
So you can find that on Audible, Spotify, Apple, music.

702
00:52:41,767 --> 00:52:45,129
and yeah, just reach out to me uh and I'm happy to have the conversation.

703
00:52:45,129 --> 00:52:48,350
I'm happy to do this again uh with you because this has been fantastic.

704
00:52:48,534 --> 00:52:52,938
All right, you all if you haven't heard enough of his deep voice today, go buy the Audible
to hear more of it.

705
00:52:52,938 --> 00:52:54,710
Um hey, thanks for joining us.

706
00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:57,502
This is a really good conversation for just under an hour.

707
00:52:57,742 --> 00:52:58,793
Yeah, thank you.