#219 - The 3 Questions That Can Change How You Think, Lead and Connect | Eric Saperston

0:00 To know the road ahead, ask those coming back. So if anybody is trying to figure out how to live an extraordinary life, go seek out people that are already doing it and find out the values they live by, the struggles they've endured, and what advice and counsel they would give to you to better prepare yourself for the road ahead. Hey you all, welcome back to the show. ~ today's guest is Eric Saperston He's an entrepreneur, filmmaker, author, and speaker who took a pretty unconventional approach to building a career. After college, Eric hit the road in his Volkswagen bus, knocked on doors, and starting asking people if they'd sit down and talk to him.

0:55 But the funny story is he only had enough money to get him a cup of coffee because he was selling grilled cheese out of his van. Those conversations eventually became the journey. An award winning documentary featuring people like Jimmy Carter, Henry Winkler, and leading to a development deal with Disney. But today, Eric has turned those experiences into his three things methodology and a new three things game designed to change the way people connect and communicate. So we're going to talk about how he created opportunities from nothing, what he learned from hundreds of successful people, and why sometimes the most important thing to do is simply ask. Eric, welcome to the necessary entrepreneur.

1:35 Mark, a pleasure to be here, my friend. Yeah, man. hey, if the previous 10 minutes that we talked off camera is anything, ~ I'm gonna enjoy it. This is gonna be one that we look back on and and I'm thinking about for weeks, not just the audience. So to kick this off, because this is gonna be a conversation, not just questions, but everything you've done, I thought about like, what do we want to know from Eric? And all your experience through these past 20 years and the life that you've lived and now building three things, what is it about a curious question? I I just I just think ~ curiosity is just so important. It has become really easy in our world to become cynical and jaded and know it all's and yeah, it's shut down.

2:20 And curiosity is such an important ~ pathway for fulfillment, achievement, ~ satisfaction. It's it it's it's It's one of our core values at the very beginning of our of our birth is to be to be curious. So I I I love curiosity. I think it is a differentiator and I think it is one of the pillars that enables people to become ~ fulfilled and successful in life. Do you as you've grown and with the experience, we're not gonna talk about age, both of us are starting to add some numbers quicker. But you know, you you made this game, but I think the game came out of everything you've learned in life and the opportunity you had to talk to so many different people.

3:06 And it seems like you wanted to extend and give people the same experience, maybe develop the same confidence to ask those questions, to get out in the world and maybe develop more interpersonal skills when we become so tech and so focused on these gadgets. But What'd you discover as we'll move through why you built three things? What'd you discover about successful humans? You've probably answered that hundreds of times, but I think that's gonna lead us into what we can discover from each other when we use your game that you've made. Gotcha. Yeah, you know, so I I I think a little bit of b about my background may help too. So I I have spent my career calling up essentially the most powerful people in the world and asking them out for coffee.

3:50 And to distill the common traits and motivating factors and and beliefs that separate ordinary achievement from legendary success. And I feel like, yeah, the the the the question that you're asking, I I feel ~ You quoted it. Yeah, so I think if you go on like your website, it's awesome, all the things you've done. And I think the way it was laid out there is what separates the ordinary from extraordinary. I don't know if I I hate to say that about humans, but maybe experiences, maybe outcomes, maybe the actual human and their attributes. But to you, what just separates everything maybe in this world, not just us humans and what we achieve, the ordinary from the extraordinary?

4:32 When I tell some what I love about that statement is a long time ago in my real estate company, I wanted us to be a little bit extra, a little bit better, to raise the game a little bit more, to give our customers and consumers a little bit better experience and for all of us to live a better life. And I actually put that tagline. Yeah, I don't know if we can find it. It's 20 years ago it says the difference between ordinary and extraordinary. And I said, you all, all I'm talking about here is it's just extra in front of it. So it's what differ what what change what's the what's the difference there? What have you seen, I guess? I guess some of the characteristics, well, and that's a really beautiful way that you describe it, right? 'Cause really we're all ordinary people. I mean, except, you know, I guess somebody's born with some incredible skill that's just a once in a lifetime, and so that's that's an exception to the rule.

5:18 But for the most part, when we look at what it takes to be extraordinary, it's ordinary people who are choosing to live by extraordinary principles, and that those compound over time. And so that's really one of the big aha's. I guess things that I've learned from extraordinary people. Extraordinary people, ~ let's see, I'll I'll just I'll do it in three. number one, ~ extraordinary people, they ~ They understand the word no. You know, there's a time where no means no and and that's something to honor.

5:59 But when it comes to an entrepreneurial path, ~ no alwaysn't doesn't always mean no. No no means that I haven't prepared well enough, or that I haven't explained it well enough, or that I haven't eliminated doubt enough, or I haven't figured out the benefit for the other person enough. And so the first no is usually ~ an indication that I have more work to do. And so I think one of the big things that I've learned from extraordinary people is they don't take no personally. They use it as a tool to help them sharpen their own sword and help eliminate doubt in others so that they can get to a yes. The second thing that I've learned about extraordinary people, ~ given the top of this call here, ~ that that This was a big aha for me. I mean, I I have met with presidents, Olympic athletes, rock stars, CEOs. I've met with some of the most extraordinary people in the world to discover the common traits that enable everyday people to produce extraordinary results.

6:59 And one of the big aha's is that they're living in wonder. They're they're living from a sense of awe and marvel and astonishment and curiosity. It's easy in this world to become cynical and jaded and to become a know it all and to become y sh yeah, shut down. Yet that is not gonna ~ create an extraordinary life. It never has. The people that wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled and live extraordinary lives, they're still living in wonder. They're living in ~ in awe and marvel and astonishment and ~ Yeah, they're they're they're willing to ask questions, not make assumptions. They're willing to explore an idea.

7:46 They don't have to be right. There's just so many great qualities of living in wonder. And we all know it to be intuitively true. If we've met somebody on our path that's really extraordinary, they're like a ten-year-old kid still playing and figuring things out and and interacting with the world. And so that's that's that's the second thing I've learned about being extraordinary. and the third thing that I've learned about Extraordinary is that It's it's about principles. It's about principles and living by one's principles. Most people, I met this guy, a world-renowned architect, John Portman, who was famous for creating the atriums.

8:27 You when you go into a hotel and there's the the the moat and the lake and the waterfall and all that. He was the one that created that. He was a genius. He he called he called that vision Lungs for the city. Because when people were in New York City walking around with the hustle and bustle and the banging of all the concrete and the h horns honking, when you walked into a hotel, what would you want more than anything in the world? And he said you'd want to breathe. Just go And so that's why he created those. He called them Lungs for the City. And he's a genius. And one of the things that he shared with me was that ~ I said, I asked him, I said, what do you what do you think separates, you know, the you know, the great from from from the extraordinary?

9:10 What's what what do you think is the greatest challenge facing our world today? And he said, Well, I think the greatest challenge facing our world today is that we've become a rudderless boat society. And that We've got all these designer boats and we've got these designer sails and incredible GPS systems and great stereos, yet we become a boat without a rudder. And what happens to a boat without a rudder is that it drifts and it's at the whim of the elements. Without a rudder, we we react to everything. We react to the news, we act to politicians, react to whatever's happening. We're being pushed around by the elements, by the current.

9:52 And most people are going to bed exhausted and waking up tired, even with with good hearts and and and well-intended people. They're just exhausted because it's it life is hard and we're getting spun around a lot more now than ever. And the the antidote to that is to figure out what our rudder is. And by defining what our rudder is, it gives us depth of character and it enables us to be able to be proactive with what's coming at us instead of reactive. I get a chance to choose what I want to do based on my principles, and that is a game changer. And so the third thing that I've learned from all these extraordinary people is that they're they're not living by blind chance and magic. They're living by guiding principles.

10:39 And those guiding principles, they take time to define. I think that's one of the reasons why I get invited to give speeches to companies all over and coach top executives is because I'm helping people really get clear about what governs their lives. Because if they don't know what governs their lives, it's very difficult to live an extraordinary life. ~ so you're a guy of three things. That's why you named the game this. Is there anything beyond what you just talked about about why and I want you to talk about it. It's your game that you created, but it feels like to me, it feels like so much more than a game. Well, three th is a great great intro. Th three things is an evolution ~ of a journey.

11:21 I mean, I took I took this journey and I started interviewing people. That's where I that's where my background is. I started calling up the president of Koch and the chairman of UPS and the Jerry Garcia and Maya Angelou and Jimmy Carter and Donald Keogue, the president of Koch, and Oz Nelson, the chairman of UPS and All kinds of people, who Woody Harrelson, on and on and on, just the actor, and just taking people out for a cup of coffee. And the the game evolved out of my interviews. So I would interview people, and when I started off, ~ I would ~ I'd I'd I'd I would like most people. I'm I'm if if you were if you were the listener gonna interview somebody, I would I would prep for it.

12:04 You know, and I would write these long-ass questions that were detailed and full of thought and energy. And then when I went to go do an interview, I'd look at the questions and just would get lost because there was just too much words there. ~ and then I would ask people, ~ yeah, like then I then I started going, okay, well, let me ask one question. What what's what's one thing you've learned about leadership instead of making it so complicated? Then that was awesome. But people would then answer that question. And they would start talking about leadership and then all of a sudden their cat would come in and they'd start talking about their cat and then they'd go back to leadership and then they'd talk about something else and then come back to leadership. And then I learned as a documentarian who made films that I'd have to go back and edit all that material.

12:49 I'd have to go back and grab the thing at six minutes, grab it at eleven, grab it at seventeen, put it together, and then I'd have to have cutaways to figure out how to make the person look smart by pe piecing piecing it all together and it was a lot of work. And so I realized after doing that for years and years and years, I wanted to I wanted to capture people's wisdom. I wanted to distill a life lived in a very ~ succinct way that was ~ catalogable and memorable. And so it it was just a natural evolution where I started to realize instead of asking somebody one open ended question.

13:30 I can ask them a three things question. And if I ask them a three things question, all of a sudden, now I I tapped into a universal gettable that every culture, three is the most powerful thing. It's w it's it's w it it it it transcends everything. It's it's ~ it's the beginning, middle, and an end. It's the red, white, and blue, it's the ~ sex, rock sex, drugs, and rock and roll. It it it it's a it's a it's a trifecta. We communicate best in threes. It's it's it's grokkable, it's memorable. It's easy to and it distills. So I started realizing, I can interview people like this and ask them three things questions instead of just one. And we started playing with this idea as my my lady Sarah and I, we were traveling all around the world and we were walking up to strangers and saying, Hey, can we interview you?

14:16 And then we'd ask them, like, you know, hey, what are three things your dad taught you? ~ what are three lessons that your mom taught you? What are what are three things that make an extraordinary life? You know, what are three things that you've learned about meeting new people. And it was just fascinating, talking to complete strangers. They would think about that question. And then I kid you not, it was like a tiny TED talk from an individual who just shared what it is that they learned from their life. But by being able to distill one, two, and three, it tells a story. It's it's fascinating. It's it's easily re mem rememorable. ~ and it yeah, it's just incredible.

14:57 So we started doing that. And Sarah and I were working on the series where we were cataloging the the wisdom of strangers. And then ~ we created a wonder summit, Sarah and I did in San Diego, where we brought 65 of the top leaders and rock stars and visionaries and pioneers that we knew in the world and brought them to San Diego to have a wonder summit. And while we were at the Wonder Summit, it was like 11 o'clock at night, the night before, like, hey, you know what we should do? We should grab these questions that we've been asking people, throw them in a hat and let people pick them. And so we sure enough, we grabbed a hat, wrote down the questions, and then as people arrived, we had each person pick out a three things question. And the assignment was during the course of the next three days, ask as many people as you can your question, and then you a that they're gonna ask you theirs, catalog that wisdom, and then at the closing ceremony, we're gonna have everyone go around and share what their question was, what they learned, and then ~ reflect back.

15:53 And it was one of the most riveting experiences. People would get up and say, Hi, my name is. I my question was, ~ what are three things you've learned about getting into trouble? And I interviewed 17 people and then this is what I found out, you know, and it was just riveting. And it was just we had a moment that was like just an exploration of something popped out in front of us, going, wow, there's other mediums that we can do this in. And then two weeks later I got a phone call from the head of leadership and development for Hilton Hotels Worldwide that said, Hey, would you come out? and be a keynote speaker at our conference for the global analytics team and you know share what you've been learning, you know, cataloging all this wisdom from extraordinary leaders. And and I said yes. And they said, by the way, do you have a team building experience?

16:37 And we hadn't done it yet. We just did this thing two weeks ago with pieces of paper, you know, like written pieces of paper in a hat. We don't and and we said, Yeah, we're we're creating this game. You know, we're we're gonna make cards and and and and and I was speaking, you know, like it was already done in my head. And and he said, Great, I'll buy two hundred and fifty of but we hadn't made yet. But I was just realizing that we can make them. So he helped fund the first ~ the first thing. So we made five hundred games in our first printing of them. Two hundred and fifty went to the to Hilton and we did this exercise with them. We did a corporate training where we had the people play three things as a way to become better public speakers and better leaders and to build ~ a a team community and ~ yeah, just so many great things out of it.

17:23 We got, you know, on a scale of one to ten, they gave us a twelve for what the experience was. And we've done that now for Virgin and for Amazon and a bunch of companies. And that was experience that just kind of birthed out of that. And then from there, we ended up kind of ~ yeah, seeding the game a little bit and testing it out. And then now we have a a deal with Simon and Schuster and the game is gonna be everywhere and it's already impacting people's lives. So we evolved it into making it into a a game for everyone, as well as a a corporate team building experience. What'd you find back at the Wonder Conference? It seems like if that individual had one question, asked 17 people, I don't think they probably, whoever it was, I don't think she probably ~ articulated all 17 answers.

18:09 I'm assuming the mental brain distilled it down. Did it did it automatically come out as here's three things I've garnered from these 17 people? How was the distillation on it being presented at the conference? Great. So just to just to walk people through. So three things is ~ it's a very unique way to distill information just in general. I mean, I've spent my whole career asking single-based questions. Hey, what's one thing you learned? And then people will go on and share a lot of things about what they learned. Saying what are three things you learned, that's a whole different beast because that helps people distill their collective wisdom in in threes. And so the first answer kind of comes quickly.

18:49 or can the second answer takes another minute, boom, and then po but the third one will take a second. And then that third one is this incredible organic moment that bubbles up and pops out and it's just brilliant. People are brilliant. When they get out of their own way, people are brilliant. And ev the the questions in our game and the questions we use are universally gettable. Everybody can answer We play with kids all the way to eighty, ninety year olds, and it's so fascinating to hear what people say. The first so the first thing is that The the the first elements is that there's three things, right? So that's that's ~ yeah, the first, second, and third. And then your question was what what did you want me to clarify? Well, it's it's when when it was their part of their role over the Wonder Conference to ask this question to as many people as they could.

19:36 And that was a lot of information from a lot of different humans that was coming at that one person that then needed to present it to the group. How how did that just in turn, how did it show up distilled down how the person asking the 17 folks, and they had all this information, because they're not gonna give, hey, this person said this. This person said this, this person How did it come out naturally and organically from people that didn't set up the conference, that maybe weren't comfortable doing this in the past? How did that come out of them? It's so great. Yeah. So what's what it's a great question. So the the the process of three things is it's universally gettable. You know, it's just it's very clear. And even though we think we can't do it, if we if we minimize the internal dialogue that says we can't do it and push it to the side, everybody has the ability to distill three things.

20:26 So it's it's it's it's awesome. And I think what ends up happening in this case you're talking about. So I interviewed 17 people, and then how do I distill that down to three, right? But it was incredible. I you we had we had all those people and they went around the room and it's it it it doesn't it it's it's I don't know how to explain it any more than it's there's an organic natural cadence to it. It's not complicated. Somebody just says, Okay, I interviewed seventeen people about this topic, and then I thought about it, and then here's the first thing I learned talking to seventeen people. Here's the second thing that I learned talking to seventeen people and then wait a minute. And then here's the third and that one like pops up. And bubbles out and then everybody's like, Whoa, that's incredible and it's and yeah, it it it it's it's it's ~ The process almost automatically filters it.

21:15 As you were talking about it, they said the process almost automatically filters it. That's what I was thinking about this. It probably filters down probably to like, these are the three biggest things I took away. You don't even have to think about the seventeen. Right. It just comes it comes for it's it's an amazing thing. Three things is very very powerful. It's very very very powerful. not something that that we developed, something that we backed into and went, Wow, this is three things. We developed the game, but the concept of three things is it's un it's a universal gettable. Every you know, most cultures talk in threes, we understand in threes. ~ it it it helps people distill, it it it it makes it memorable. ~ it's very very powerful.

21:57 And businesses and communities the opportunity to sit around and celebrate a lived life. ~ That's what I was wondering. I'm wondering like if if tomorrow I don't know how many people are on the earth, eight billion, I I don't know what the real number is, but none of us do, I don't think. If everyone tomorrow, on September fourth, could be gifted the game three things. How do you think how would we be impacted if we all did it at the same time? How would the world change the next day? ~ that's a great one. I'll answer it.

22:38 see I'll do it in three. ~ the first thing I think that what ends up happen the first thing that I think is if if if the world if everyone in the in the world played three things, which I think the first thing is that it builds community in a very powerful way. It's it's it's very different than than other games of this magnitude. A lot of games in this this this lane they're They're about sharing. Right? The conversation starter kind of games are about me getting a chance to share something. You know, it's like w whatever that might be, you know, the ~ what's on my bucket list or you know, what what's my favorite food or something.

23:22 It's it's about sharing, which is beautiful and and the world needs ~ more of that. Our our game is is it's about providing value to each other. It it the answers uplift each other. So the first thing I think is that ~ yeah, I think the first thing is that it's it provides value. The second thing that I think Three Things does is that it it transfers wisdom, which is helpful. Transfers wisdom back and forth between people. That's we need it. We all need it. It's so nourishing. It's so helpful. You've lived a life, I've lived a life, and if we get a chance to to help each other on the journey, it's it's it's it's it's intoxicating.

24:08 It's it's Just to stop me there on the second one, what you said wisdom. A lot, very often in this world, we're trying to calculate. You know, we say, is someone smart? And I've been having a lot of conversation. Like, what do you mean smart? Do they know how to build that rock wall better than other people? Did they score the highest in their getting their master's degree and their top three and they're gonna be hired by some firm on Wall Street? Are they best to interacting with humans? But you used wisdom. And so if the world woke up, On September fourth, after we played your game today on September third, if we're all more wise, what would that do? I think well, I I think w w wisdom is I just think it's so important.

24:51 It's easy to spin around. yeah, I think a lot of people wake up exhausted and go to bed tired because they're not wise. They're they're reactive to everything. They're they're spun around, they're being controlled by all the exterior forces. And wisdom enables somebody to get clear about their operating principles and what governs them. It's it's it's a it's a like a boat without a rudder. The rudder is the is the is the principles. And so when somebody has the rudder, it will enable them to sail wherever they want to go. And so I think w wisdom is important. And and I think that yeah, I think we we we all have it.

25:34 It's not something that's just for successful people. That's that that's why the three things game is so powerful is that it's I I've met some of the most powerful people in the world and had the privilege of having them share their principles with me, share their their the lessons they've learned and the struggles they've endured and and now we've created a game for everyone to have that exchange. That is it where everybody I'm sorry. Yeah, I I interrupted you. I was going say before you get to the third one, don't don't go there yet, right? But I wanted to go here on, you know, the idea of wisdom and and knowing and, you know, making impacts and calming down society. It seems that sitting here listening to Eric, Were you wise before you sat down and talked to all these people?

26:24 I mean, if you talk to my my my lady, she'd tell you I'm still not wise. I don't know, I'm still working on being wise. But the wiz but the wisdom of the principles, because I think what a lot of people, and and you know, we're all in this world, if you're in a leadership position, not manager, if you're if you're leading folks and and hopefully taking the responsibility to help them live better lives and maybe make these incremental improvements and just have your community around you improve and get a little bit better. A lot of people hear the word principles. And a lot of folks say, What is that? Great. Yeah, so principles, so wisdom is accessible to us all. That that that's first and foremost. That that you know, I've met the Olympic athletes and rock stars and CEOs and entrepreneurs and some of the most successful people in the world, and they're clearly wise. I've also met a construction worker that no one knows who's also as wise as that person, and I've met horse trainers and Whatever, all kinds of people.

27:23 There, there's wise people everywhere. So it's not just about affluence and being in in a in a in a in a big position. I I also think that that that wisdom is is is available to anyone. Anyone. We all we all carry wisdom in us. You carry it, I carry it, everyone carries it. It the question is, do does do I have the ability to access their wisdom? Do I know how to do that? And that becomes asking people questions. I could sit in the in a in a in an Uber ride and and seek wisdom from the Uber driver because that Uber driver has a has a lens to the world that I have that I'm not doing. And so it's it's based on our ability to ask ~ powerful questions.

28:06 So, this idea about these principles that really lead folks that you've been able to interact with that have these extraordinary outcomes. So we talked about principles. If someone isn't waking up every morning and going about their day based upon maybe three foundational principles, maybe they're going through their day without knowing what they are. But what do you think the beginning of documenting those are or figuring out, hey, what are your principles? Because if the extraordinary folks are principled in everything they do, And all their actions tie to those, it's really important that we document our principles. So what do you think that looks like on being the the wise Eric on somebody saying, Hey, like I need to figure out like what are my principles?

28:47 What are those? Where do where do I garner those from? That is exactly what I do coaching ~ top CEOs and executives, is that I I help them figure out what their principles. It's not it's not as yeah, it it seems like it's obvious to me now after all the work that I've done, but for most people, they are living their lives, ~ working their their their butts off and sacrificing and are disciplined and are doing all the right things to to to live a fulfilling life, except they don't know what their principles really are. They have a sense of them, they think they know what they are, but they really have not taken time to define them like we like our country has a constitution that we come back to.

29:30 What what's your individual constitution? If somebody doesn't have those at the ready, then they don't have a constitution that's active and working. They're just they're they're more they're more reactive than anything. Someone that you're coaching recently, obviously to remain nameless, give me one of the best principles. You're like, wow, that I I I like that one. Not that's best or anything. You're like that, so we can give people an idea of one of the top pre three principles that really drives someone that you coach. What's one of the good ones? let's see, one of the principles that's let me think a juicy one. One of the big principles well first of all, I'll just k I'll just kind of freeform here. W pr principles only work if they're articulated. So they've got to be articulated.

30:12 If they're not articulated and written down and like right there is my guiding operating procedure, then I'm not living by principles. So that's the number one. People don't have them clearly articulated, then they're more reactive than anything. That they're just they're responding to things versus having a clarity of of principles. So principles enable people to move with velocity. Right? If I don't have a principle, it just makes sense, right? Intuitive sense. If I if I don't have a principle and something comes at me, I'm in my head, I'm trying to figure out what to do. I might ~ impulsively react, I'll I'll screw it up even more. All that stuff creates more chaos, it it drains the battery, it it it it it it it has us be a boat without a rudder.

30:53 We're just kind of spinning around. But having a rudder, that's what principles are, is being really clear about the what the rudder is so that I can sail my vessel anywhere I want to go. And so most people don't define that. So then they're reactive to what's happening. They're reactive to their environments. They're reactive to bad news. They react they're they're reactive versus being able to go, I'm sailing that way and I know where I'm going. And these are the principles that govern me. I think it takes work to so that's number one. Number two, I think it takes work to figure out what those are. That's I mean, one of the things that I that I've been really blessed is that I get to coach some of the top people in the world around helping them get clear about their principles. Because that it it it it's so freeing. It it to live by our principles is yeah, it that that that's what enables us to wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled is knowing what our principles are.

31:40 We don't know what those are. It's it's it's very exhausting and tiresome and and a lot of regret and and Yeah, we just get kind of spun around for a long time and then then it's over. Is the golden rule is the golden rule a principle? Treat other people the way you want to be treated? I guess The golden rule is undeniably a a principle, right? So that at the at the core level of society, I mean, that is one of the most profound ideas is that ~ to treat people the way I would like to be treated. I mean, that is at the core essence. Th there's a I you know, I think if somebody wants to live an extraordinary I mean, if you want to live a mediocre life, you want to lead a good life, you wanna lead a know, what but i then you could do whatever you want.

32:22 But if you want to live an extraordinary life, it it really is about honoring the other too. You know, it's not just about me. So do on to others you like done onto yourself for sure. Yeah. So if we ~ we talked about to get back to this third thing I said, what would the world if we played the game three things and I think the one was, you know, community matters, I think, and then about wisdom. What do you think the third thing we'd wake up tomorrow if we all played your game today? Is there a third thing? There might be ten, but since you're the d distillation of three guys, you're you're you're Eric the three. Like so what do you th is there another good third one that you're like, Hey, I really think that the Imperim the world would be impacted this third way? ~ the the third thing, for the p playing the game that you were saying, like the benefit of playing the game.

33:07 The the the the game is i it's an incr you I just I feel very lucky. I feel very lucky and very blessed that we've created this game and the impact it's having on people's lives. I mean, that's really the greatest joy. The the impact this game is having is ~ tremendous. ~ it it it builds community, it transfers wisdom. ~ it it it honors a lived life. I mean there's there's so many magical things that happen. The the the third thing that I think that that the game does third thing that I think the game does is that it allows the transference of wisdom. And that's super helpful. I just think it's so incredible.

33:50 Just to be able to sit around and transfer wisdom. We do all kinds of stuff. I mean, I'm I I like everything. I like music, I like going To parties, I like having a lot of fun. I like everything. Yeah, and this game is very fun. It it surprisingly. It doesn't seem like, you know, to ask people what's a three things. It doesn't seem fun, but it's it's so funny and insightful and and joyous. And it's cool when there's multiple generations playing. ~ six year olds have great wisdom. Ninety year olds have great wisdom. just you know, just it when people just allow themselves to share what's true for them, it's it's it's riveting. So the the the game is very intoxicating. ~ people love to play it. It it it it ~ yeah, it's it's it's Yeah, I think the three things is that it helps people on their journey. It it li it's it's a it's a rising tide that lifts all boats.

34:42 Hmm. The did this feel natural to you? Cause your lived life is what's created this game, the things you've learned from and what really helped you. In two thousand three, when you went out driving the VW bus, I think that was two thousand three. I think I d yeah, sure. Somewhere around in there, right? Selling your grilled cheese sandwiches to survive and to fill it with gas. ~ Yeah. Go ahead. The when you started out on that journey, was there a destination in mind then? So I set out on a trip. So when I just to kind of rewind for a second, I graduated from college from San Diego State University and I studied speech communication with an emphasis on leadership.

35:25 And I'd been a student body president, a fraternity president, a resident advisor. And when I graduated, I wasn't sure if I wanted to go off to corporate America or I wanted to ~ go back to graduate school. So I decided I'd take a year off ~ and my plan was to follow the Grateful Dead and work a ski season in Aspen. And I th I was really stoked on that idea. And then my mentor pulled me back by the b by by the scruff of my collar or my neck and said, hey man, I I think going out and partying and having a good time, that'll be great, you know, but you're already good at partying and playing. So for the year, what else can you do to make the trip more meaningful? And on a dare from him, that's when I decided that when I wasn't following the Grateful Dead and working a ski season, I'd call up some of the most powerful people in the world and take them out for a cup of coffee.

36:15 And that's what I set out to do was to go interview people and to catalog wisdom and to bridge generation gaps and be able to ~ help young people increase their odds of success by learning the guiding principles that govern successful lives. Hmm. What's the ugly part behind the scenes of that journey that we don't see? I don't know, I think f back then it would have been just i i was I was ~ I was pioneering back then. I was traveling around in a Volkswagen bus with my dog.

36:55 I picked up three other travelers and we were on the journey, and that journey was riveting and exhilarating. And also scary and uncertain. And we had to be very resourceful and we had to, yeah, overcome our own fear of whatever was limiting limiting us and be able to push beyond what was comfortable to and stay committed to something that we really cared about and finish what we started. That was a big deal. That we started something and then there was all kinds of hiccups and upsets and breakdowns and staying committed to something even though you know it was tumultuous and not easy.

37:36 ~ finishing what we started was a was a commitment we all had. So that was powerful and we worked hard to and it took a long time, took ten years to to make a movie. ~ and it yeah, it was we end it ended up becoming a feature film. So that was something that that we didn't set out to do. I I set out after college to bridge a gap between young people and elders. That was my mission after college. I just wanted to to increase my odds and help my friends increase their odds of being successful by talking to those that had already succeeded and find out the values they live by and the struggles they've endured and what advice and counsel they would give to a younger generation to better prepare ourselves for the road ahead and that's what I ended up doing. I set out on that mission and there's a great line, Sometimes you take a trip and sometimes the trip takes you.

38:21 ~ this trip took me well beyond anything I had imagined. I that year long I I took a sabbatical for a year and thought I would talked to a couple people and then all of a sudden I was meeting some of the most powerful people in the world and taking them out for coffee and cataloging their collective wisdom and that led to giving speeches and working with brands and doing cool things and all of a sudden ~ the journey took me in a way that I'd never dream and got invited to give speeches to corporations all over the world and coach executives and yeah it's been a it's it's been a real blessing. But it but it started from real humble beginnings and and just having the the desire and the commitment to to bridge a gap between those that wanna learn and those that wanna teach.

39:04 Where'd that desire come from? What was the origin of you feeling that as a cause? Well, I I th that the the origins for that for me, I I grew up in a very ~ I grew up in a house that ~ my my mom and my dad were married and had ~ two kids before me. My mom was a stay at home mother and my dad was an executive at Barton Brands in Chicago, Illinois, that they import corona beer and he played minor league baseball for the White Sox and he was a stud for all practical purposes. And then at twenty eight years old he had a stroke. That left him paralyzed on the entire left side of his body.

39:44 And so my dad walked around. If you've seen people with their arms shriveled up and they kind of dragged that whole left side, so his whole life got ripped out from underneath him and what he envisioned for his ~ his his journey changed ~ quickly. And then I came four years after my dad's stroke. And so I was born into a house with a with a with a funny dad and a and a and a Big heart dad, but he was also bitter and frustrated and angry and and and you know his whole life got you know shriveled up and shut down on him. And so it wasn't easy. So I came into an environment where ~ yeah, I my my dad wasn't like other dads. My dad wasn't ~ able to go be successful.

40:26 He was he was on disability, he was grouchy and frustrated because he couldn't do things that he wanted to do. And so I had a front row seat to suffering, and that suffering. gave me a strength of spirit that most able bodied people never know because I saw how much he struggled and I realized that I'm gonna live life on my terms and I'm gonna go for it. And so that was a big part of ~ the origin of my story is that I I wasn't as afraid as most people are to go make a fool out of myself and to go risk and to go ~ ask and to go try and to and to go experiment to the the the I I I I I d I have no idea how long my life is gonna be and I don't know if tomorrow or this afternoon I'm gonna have a stroke myself or something's gonna stop my life.

41:14 I got I had a front row seat to suffering and so I wanted I made a commitment that I would go live my life to the best of my ability and do it on my terms. And so I'm I w I was sad growing up in that environment and then grateful that I grew up in that environment because Yeah, it it it it has given me a a very powerful North Star to sail my boat to. A lot of those people, and maybe this ties back to the game too, three things. ~ a lot of those people that you spoke to on the road, some of them we know their names. I bet there's some that we don't. And before we were they were introduced to us from you, if you would go back and watch the documentary. ~ did a lot of their wives come out from massive adversity as well?

41:59 Is that something I think I already know the answer to the question, but I want to know it from the guy that was sitting in the seat. Well, that's a good one. So yeah, you know, it's interesting. There there are there are a few different categories of extraordinary people, right? There there are there are people who are in a long lineage of extraordinary people. So they've been trained and and they've seen what it looks like and then they they they they've been modeled by other extraordinary behaviors, so then they know how to do it and they become extraordinary. There are other people out there that come from nothing. They come from nothing. They come from some terrible situation and they come from nothing and they go on to become extraordinary, right? And then there are people who have a personal tragedy where they're living their life and then all of a sudden they get into a car wreck or something crazy happens. And then now they're stuck in a hospital bed for a year contemplating life and all the things that they've done.

42:58 And then they turn around and go, I'm not gonna be stopped by those things anymore. I'm gonna when I get out of here, I'm gonna go do this thing that I've always wanted to do and then go live an extraordinary life. So there's there's lots of pathways to to to to make that happen. How much do you think luck plays a part? So if we go, because we're gonna we're all gonna go get your game, we're gonna playing this as a company, I think. I c I can see this happening. We'll have our own wonder experience ourselves. And I can s I can see the brilliance that's gonna come out of it. And it's not necessarily You want to have me c have me come out. Have me come out to your team and I'll help facilitate it. Okay, here's what I said though before we got on. I said, You all, I think we would change places physically with him today.

43:39 ~ Hawaii coming to Cincinnati, you know, that feels like work, Eric. It's I I'm not normally one to go to Cincinnati, but if you throw in the skyline chili, it's a good deal. I'll come. Here we go. The pineapples and coconuts from you, the skyline from us. I think you're getting a better deal. I think we are. I think we are. Okay, you're right. So I think I don't think it's necessarily correct me if I'm wrong. This is your game, this is your life you've lived. But for me, being in a seat where I have to ask cu I ask curious questions way before a podcast. And then I wanted to grow. I wanted to learn. I wanted to share the types of things that you've gone out and learned, and maybe from average people. Like how can those that think they're average, how can they say, you know what, there is more possible? But I don't think it's necessarily what we learn from other people. I think it's gonna be the growth from within us that engages in this is where I'm processing this.

44:33 Copy that. Yeah. You know, I think the, you know, w one one can say that all the answers lie within ourselves, right? I I know I know all the answers. You know all the answers. We already know the answers, and then by talking to people, and another person's ability to frame it or to identify it, ~ guides somebody back to themselves to know their own truth. Yeah. Cause then I'm thinking because I we ask these questions. We'll listen to podcasts. I mean, the life you lived is amazing. ~ this game is just like another piece. It's just another piece of the pie on what you've built. This is probably really fun. It feels like maybe I'm gonna give back to the world a little bit. But so often everyone's asking these questions because I do think there's an internal dialogue that they want to know how, or that person's getting that outcome and I haven't yet.

45:19 And where that comes from is. I think we all do want to live a little bit better lives. And so then we're looking for the answer. And then the book back in the day that was written, The Secret. And if you just believe, if you just think of it, is there a core principle? And you're going to say, well, there's three things, but is there a core principle or an approach from all of us that you've seen? It's like, hey, if you know, you mentor already very successful CEO level people, is there just a piece of general advice that's like, hey, just start here? Just go just just go and do this thing. Like if if you don't have, if you're a rudderless boat and you're going through the world and we're pulling up Instagram and we're watching YouTube and we're hearing from Eric today, living this extraordinary life, him and Kelly, I think that was your that's your lady, right? Sarah, Sarah. Sarah, Sarah, I apologize. I'm horrible. Take me to a bad place.

46:14 So, but is there just one general place? Because what I've found is you've distilled it down to three things, trying to make it a little bit more simple, the approach. What I've found is and correct me if I'm wrong, but that rudderless boat just needs one direction first. Great. Yeah, I think the guiding principle for that, for me, is has been to know the road ahead, ask those coming back. To know the road ahead, ask those coming back. So if anybody is trying to figure out how to live an extraordinary life, go seek out people that are already doing it and find out the values they live by, the struggles they've endured, and what advice and counsel they would give to you to better prepare yourself for the road ahead. In many regards, that's what the game is. The game is an opportunity to to distill lived experiences that people have had and to be able to share that wisdom with each other and that everybody's carrying wisdom.

47:06 My mom's carrying wisdom, your mom's carrying wisdom. It doesn't have to be some CEO or a famous rock star. Everybody's carrying wisdom and what this game does is this game opens up that portal so that we all get a chance to help uplift each other on our journey. And it's fun, surprisingly, talking about life, talking about lessons, talking about what people have learned on their journey. It it turns out to be very funny and insightful and And uplifting. What do you think? This is something we all can really take away, other than like go buy the game and play it with your companies and friends and do that stuff, right? Yeah, but what do you think you've learned about getting these people who were strangers to say yes? W you know, when we say that the game turns strangers into friends and friends into family, ~ that's what we say about the game.

47:49 The game is a game that turns strangers into friends and friends into family, and that these fifty-two cards will help you get to know people better while discovering that everyone has something extraordinary to contribute. And I think that is probably the at the essence of what it is that we love so much about this game is that it it yeah, it it creates a community quickly. ~ it it celebrates ~ a lived life. And it's very fun to play because life is funny. And so it's it's it's i and people who play this game repeat back to us how meaningful that and beautiful and funny the night was. It it it it it's an uplifting game. It uplifts and inspires people. On all those interviews over the years, you're traveling around the country and people that you meet now, what caused them to say yes and not no?

48:35 Is it as simple as open-ended questions? What approach did you take when you're at a payphone and you stopped somewhere in the middle of Nebraska for some reason and you're thinking, We're gonna be in, I don't know, Atlanta in a day and a half, and Coca-Cola's at our feet. And I need someone at that executive or CEO level. What caused What why'd they say yes? Was it your approach? Was it a specific question? Was your why'd they say yes? What a brilliant question, Mark. The So let's let's use that example. So I'm I'm calling the president of Coca-Cola, which I did. And I I'm I'm I I back then I'm calling the switchboard down below to see if I can get put up to the higher levels of the of the of the of the office building.

49:20 So when I would call ~ yeah, there's some things I could just kind of d riff with you. So the one one thing to For people that are listening, that there's a lot of work on the front end. Like I'm not just calling just to call and hope for the best. There's a lot of I call it whittling, you know, whi whittling, like a piece of wood, whittling, whittling, whittling, whittling, and figuring out, well, before I make that call, what's the problem? What's the need, and how am I the solution? And that's applicable for a lot of things in our lives. What's the problem? What's the need, and how am I the solution? So Before I get on that phone call, I've got to be able to clearly articulate in a very fast amount of time those three things. If I can't do that, then the phone's gonna hang up.

50:09 They're gonna tell me no. And they might tell me no anyway, but I've gotta be able to articulate that very quickly. So I was able to do the heavy lifting before I made that call. And so the the first thing I would be able to do is articulate what's the problem. Well, I would say there's a problem between there's a there's a problem, there's a breakdown between young people. And elders of proven depth and character in our country. That's what I believed. I believe that there was a breakdown between those two groups. There was young people that wanted to live an extraordinary life, and there were elders, but we didn't know who they were at that time. They they they ran businesses and they were out there, but we didn't have much access. Social media and all the stuff that we have now didn't exist. So they were much more in their ivory towers. And so I knew they were there. And then ~ yeah, so there is How how do I do that? That's the problem.

50:53 The problem is there's a breakdown between young people and elders of proven depth and character, especially in my life. My dad was crippled, so I didn't have access to going to him for fatherly advice on how to live an extraordinary life. So I thought I'm gonna go seek out the people that are living extraordinary lives and get wisdom from them and advice from them. So the pro that was the problem. The problem is there's a breakdown between young people and elders of proven depth and character. The need is that Wow, could young people benefit from the wisdom of these wise elders? And would wise elders benefit from the enthusiasm of the young people? And I thought they would. And then the solution is that I could be a conduit. I could open up a dialogue between the two and then have that discussion and then catalogue that information and not only improve my life, I can also share that and help other people.

51:36 A a rising tide lifts all boats, if you will. So I would call the so I would call Coca-Cola. And see if I could get access to them and I would have to call the receptionist desk and be able to articulate those three things very quickly about what I'm doing to a receptionist. And I believe in my heart that doesn't happen all the time. But if I do that level of work, if the listeners here do that level of work and figure out what the problem needs solution is in their own lives and can articulate it very quickly and powerfully, that's a door opener. And so If I talk to the right person, they'd be hold on just a second, put me on hold, and then I'd get bumped up another floor and another floor and keep pitching it until I could get to the top of the food chain. And when I got to the top of the food chain, there was there's there's there's value.

52:20 There's value in in in and interviewing people. I recommend that for everyone that's listening to become, you know, the I I I'm not special. We're we're we're all capable of interviewing people. Anybody that's listening here, stop and think for a second. Who in your life is waking up excited and going to bed fulfilled? And living an extraordinary life. And then whoever's in your immediate circle, s ask that person out for a cup of coffee or a sandwich or go for a walk or whatever. And then come up with questions that you're struggling with right now and ask that person for advice and counsel. And then ~ it will significantly increase our odds of success. Mine, yours, anybody that's playing this game.

53:00 And that three things game does that too. It helps it helps distill wisdom and helps people on their journey. me make an assumption here and correct me if I'm wrong. I'm assuming it was harder to get to the CEO person that you wanted to interview. It was harder to get to their phone than it was that once you got to them for them to say yes. I bet it became almost guaranteed that if you got to them and they were listening, that you were getting in front of them. Haha well that that's that's being a good closer, right? We all want to be a good closer. I don't you know, I think ~ f you're you're correct. I mean if I if I made it all the way up to the to the seventeenth floor or the thirty seventh floor, whatever that was, and I'm I'm I'm pitching my ass off as you say as as as we say.

53:46 Like I'm pitching hard and and and and time is the essence. You got four I got forty five seconds to plead my case and and And I had to learn to be tenacious. I mean, sometimes there was a no and then I'd call back a week later and pitch it again and and tenacity is rewarded, clarity is rewarded. Doing the homework. I mean, being able to clearly articulate a problem needs solution, that that sings on a phone or on a on a message. That that there's clarity to that. Clarity opens doors. ~ Yeah, I mean I got I got I got Pretty high up there. I mean it it's a numbers game. That's the reality of it is it's a numbers game. I met some of the most amazing people and continue to meet some of the most amazing people on the planet. And there's a whole bunch of reasons why somebody says yes and it just streamlined and I got right there.

54:31 Sometimes it's a no and it's a no and it's a no, and then tenacity plays a role and being able to eliminate other people's doubt and staying the course, that could turn a no into a yes. And other times a no is just a no. Sometimes it has to do with I didn't do a good job pitching it, and other times it's a no because that person's dad just died, and I have no idea that that happened. And it's just a no. And whatever it is. And it's just it's it's a numbers game. It's about being clear about my mission and being able to articulate that easily for other people to grok it in. And it's about tenacity and not taking no for an answer without being too pushy. So what's the responsibility of us when we're asking questions?

55:15 What's then our responsibility? If that person's gonna take the time, the person playing the game, the CEO you're talking to, somebody, then what's the person at cause we're asking something? What's then our responsibility? As the interviewer or as the conversation person, that's what you're saying, as the person who's engaging the conversation? I you Yep. know, I I think If there isn't any, there isn't any, but that's I think some things that I that I you w when I engage in a conversation, I think I think listening is underrated. I think a lot of people are talkers but they're not very good listeners. And so I think listening is very important and and allowing space for people to to formulate their ideas and to be able to reflect back to them what it is people have heard and th there's a lot there's a benefit there.

56:07 You got here to this place at life. I'm not even going to dare to ask the age. Not even going to dare. ~ but it feels like from your experience through the research, it's like this guy's lived multiple lives. And I mean multiple lives in that how much you've packed into it and the life you're getting to live on your terms. But what's so fascinating about this is you created it. This wasn't a path that anybody had carved in front of you. that you you said before, hey, if you see where you want to go, ask the people that have already been there and listen to them. I don't know if there's anybody that you had access to that had been to where you've gone. You're s I'm sorry, I misunderstood that.

56:49 Yeah, so I don't think that what's so fascinating about your experience and your story is there wasn't anybody else that already paved this path that you were looking to to say, like right now, if somebody wanted to, if they want to be an influencer, whatever that means now, right? But there's many people, the Paul Brothers, a Gary Vee, you know, just all these folks. And you could say, let me read their books. If I wanna be Eric and and interview all the people and this guy, the school of hard knocks or if I wanna be them, you can go back and listen and look and see exactly the way that they did it. And if you do it exactly that way, even though you might be a little bit unique, a little bit different, different personality, you're probably gonna get a similar outcome.

57:30 I don't think you looked at anybody to follow this path that you've traveled. It seems like that you just set forth on the journey. Am I correct about that? That's what's so fascinating. You you you you well, y you are correct. There's a lot more people doing all kinds of things today. I was definitely an early adopter or beginning of of something. ~ when I set out, I mean people have been people have been studying and and seeking out wise people forever. I mean, that's not new, but in the sense of when I first came up with the idea of making a a a film called The Journey where we were gonna bridge a gap between young people and elders and set off with our with our cameras and go record that, that was very pioneering at the time that we were we were at the very beginning of MTV. Like we T V was just happening with road rules and we were we were right there and we kinda did our own version of that where we were actually out and about and started before that and started bridging the gap between young people and elders.

58:28 And so that was very unique to us back then. And and ~ yeah I think Talking to wise elders and bridging the gap has been ~ at the core essence of my work. And we set out to go do that and it was yeah, it was very pioneering at the time. People hadn't heard of it, people hadn't done it, and we were we were forging new ground. And then when we came out with our movie and we sold our short film at Sundance and our feature one South by Southwest, it was because we had tapped into something that that people really love. It w there's there's there's an honesty to the film, it's very inspiring. it's very revealing. People tell me that they'll watch it once a year and go back and watch it again just for what they can get out of it.

59:09 It's ~ it's chalkful, a lot of wisdom. ~ and it's very helpful. It's hell it's helpful for entrepreneurs, it's helpful for visionaries, it's helpful for pioneers to watch it and and and people tell us all over the world that it's been very impactful and they've used it to succeed on their own journey. So you can get back to your awesome Maui life. ~ send send us on our way. you know, what's the what's the best place? We'll give you all the tag, but what's the best place for us to go find the game? That's number one. the game, so if anybody loves the game, please pick it up. The best place to get that is ~ on Amazon. You can buy it on Amazon and you can also buy it at ~ at my site at EricSaperston.com. you can get it there.

59:51 And ~ the game has been a blessing. It's been ~ something that that I'm really proud of. Our team is really proud of. ~ I've spent my whole life bridging a gap between young people and wise elders. That's what been my b base level of my work. And then now we've created a game that enables families and friends and communities to do that too, to bridge the gap between those that those that you love and to be able to share life lessons and be able to help one another on each other's journey. And it's it's it's the feedback that we're getting from the game has been extraordinary. ~ it's it's it's it's impactful. It's it's fun to play with ~ a loved one, it's fun to play with a family, it's fun to play with your a team. It's fun to play. We we use it corporately.

1:00:35 I'm able to come in and and help facilitate a three things experience for companies that helps ~ do amazing things for them. They we're we're getting rave reviews, like I said, from Amazon and from Virgin and from really cool companies that they really think it's amazing. It it it it brings a community together quickly. It distills wisdom and ~ builds trust. ~ it it it It creates a powerful team dynamic, so many so many upsides to it, both professionally and personally. So I I highly recommend the game to play and yeah, I'm just I'm delighted to to meet you, Mark, and to have the opportunity to as we like to say here in Hawaii, we like to say ~ talk story. That's what the Hawaiians like w you and I got a chance to to talk story today, which is ~ such a sweet thing and I'm grateful for the opportunity to know you and to to be on your on your podcast and ~ yeah, my my name's Eric Saperston.

1:01:31 ~ please come find me on all social media links or come to our site at EricSaperston.com. If there's anything I can do to help you on your journey or help you get clear about your guiding principles or to have us facilitate a three things experience or coach or speak to your organization, please let us know. We'd be more than happy to help uplift and inspire your people too. Such an awesome guy. All right, give us one final piece of advice. Because you seem you're a guy who wants to tell stories. You're like, I don't know if you're an advice giver. I don't know. You're a listener, you're a conversationalist, a storyteller. But you said if you if you want to go and if there's a journey that you want to set out on, if there's something you want to achieve, find the ones who have done it before, right? Read about them, listen about them, ~ open up your mind to how they did it.

1:02:14 But Eric went out on a journey that nobody else had paved before. Is there something that you can give the now the 20 year olds, the 22, the 25 year olds, if they can't see anyone around them or an example that has done what they want to do? What's a first step? What's a first principle step that maybe helped you when you were in your early twenties that they should do if they can't see anybody else that's done the thing they want to do? What should they do? First thing I think is increase your odds of success by seeking people who have already succeeded. So to to bridge that gap and open up a dialogue between those that are gone ahead of you and to sick to to talk to them.

1:02:55 Success leaves clues. So to to really talk to people and to to have the courage courageous conversations with people ~ that can help you on your journey. I think the second thing, ~ I believe is to Do what you can with what you have where you are. lot of people make excuses. A lot of people are hoping for all the resources to come. ~ they they they want to do something extraordinary and at the first hiccup or upset they're it it's too much and they they back down. And I don't believe that all the resources come at once. resources in my experience come in motion and so someone has to be on the journey to get the next key and then keep going on the journey and get the next ~ gold coin or whatever it is that needs to keep moving somebody along on the adventure. So do what you can with what you have where you are is super helpful. It's been one of my core guiding principles that yeah, start where you are and and just keep going.

1:03:56 ~ and the third thing I would say about ~ advice is extraordinary is a choice. It's a choice. We're not guaranteed to be extraordinary, but extraordinary is a choice. It's a choice that we make. ~ every person is ordinary, but we're all ordinary. And then it comes down to, well, how do I want to live my life? What are my guiding principles? What what what's my definition of of of the things that matter to me? What are the top values that push and drive me to do what I do? The more clarity that I can have around that those those things that govern my life. It's like my own constitution. A lot of people are living their lives.

1:04:39 trying to please everybody and run around and are reactive and it's exhausting. But the people that wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled, they're really clear about what governs them and they live out those principles. And that's what that is what I've learned on my journey. That is what I've I've taken my principles and juxtaposed them against some of the most extraordinary people in the world and debated whether my principle was better than theirs or theirs and and and str and and grappled with them all so that I got really clear about what governs me. And I invite everyone that's listening to get really clear about what governs you. That is the the rudder to the boat. If if the the the if somebody doesn't have a really clear rudder, then their boat is adrift and is at the whim of the elements and that the elements will will will spin them around and then then the ride's over.

1:05:25 so I would I would hope that everybody would take advantage of getting clear about what governs them so that they can wake up excited, go to bed fulfilled, and produce extraordinary results in their life. All right, you're the man. Thanks for joining us. If you can't be excited about listening to this guy, ~ maybe you need to go get the game the three things. Please do. Come come to EricSaperston.com or check out three things on Amazon and send us a note. Let us know what your experience was playing the game. We'd love to hear it. Appreciate you, man. Thank you. Mark, what a pleasure. Yeah, man, thanks.