#218 - AI Won’t Replace Great Lawyers. But It Will Change How Law Firms Win | Seth Bader

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We don't use AI in lieu of people.

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We use it really to to support the people
and we we have a human

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in the loop anywhere we're using it,

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but we are finding it to be incredibly
powerful and we're really excited about
where

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we're at and where we're going.

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All right, y'all. Hey, welcome back for
another episode.

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You know, every once in a while you have
to prepare more for the episodes.

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And usually when you have a high flying
attorney on,

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you gotta watch what you're saying.

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So the preparation today is how deep are
we gonna go?

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How crazy are we gonna make it?

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But maybe we'll come out of this and we'll
have a big understanding

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on how to navigate life and stay out of
the blood with the sharks.

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So today's guest is Seth Bader.

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He's the founder and CEO of Bader Lall.

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One of Georgia's leading personal injury
and workers compensation firms.

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~ Seth started the law firm in 2008 out of
a one-bedroom apartment.

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It means he's meant to be on this podcast
talking about grinding

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and entrepreneurship. And ever since he's
grown into more than

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150 employees and tens of thousands of
clients.

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But what's most interesting about Seth's
story isn't just how big he built the
firm.

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It's what he had to learn along the way
about leadership,

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hiring, culture, marketing, and running a
business that grew far beyond what

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one person could control.

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So today we're gonna talk about what it
really takes to scale a business

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and how you evolve from being the person
doing the work to become being

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the person leading the organization.

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Seth, welcome to the necessary
entrepreneur.

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Mark, man, I really appreciate this
opportunity to be with you and your

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and your your fans, your audience,

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and to talk about that. Yeah, there's been
a lot of lessons,

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a lot of a lot of learnings, a lot of ~
great experiences.

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It's been a journey. I think anybody who's
an entrepreneur or business owner

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can appreciate ~ you know, what that's
like.

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It tr it truly is a journey, but it's it's
it's ~ something that ~ I I love.

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I would never never trade it in for the
alternative for sure.

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Isn't it crazy that ~ so many of us have
this story and so many people listening

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that our entrepreneurs are looking to
scale or want to become,

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while you're saying that, that you
wouldn't do it any different,

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you wouldn't trade it for anything.

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But in the back of your mind, while you're
saying it,

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you're scanning through all the really
difficult moments.

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Isn't that really what happens when we're
saying it?

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We're like, we're trying to be honest that
we wouldn't do it different,

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but then you're like, but man,

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it was really hard.

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Well well just for clarity, I I I I would
certainly knowing what I know now,

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I would have made some very different
decisions and would have executed
differently.

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I just wouldn't trade this experience for
the alternative ~ to you know to

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be a full time employee, even though
there's a lot of value in that and

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you can do great work as an employee.

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~ and there's certainly a lot of security
and there's a lot of

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you know opportunity to make an impact for
me,

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for what gets me going, in building my own
business,

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creating

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impact not only for myself and my family,

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but for other people, clients and
employees.

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Like for me, that's what this is about.

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That's what life is about. And so that's
what I mean.

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It's a I would definitely I would
definitely do some things differently,

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right? But I but I wouldn't trade this
life and this experience for the
alternative.

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But yes, I I I certainly can scan the last
twenty,

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twenty three, twenty four years of of my
life and and and I

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Yes. There are some memories that are
very,

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very crystal clear and I and yeah,

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I certainly could have done things
differently,

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but you know, you learn from them and you
adapt.

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Yeah. So you know how a lot of people were
talking like if you posted up to

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a bar at a restaurant and you met someone
new,

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I don't know if you're a
conversationalist,

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but I'll create conversation with anybody.

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It's just in this inherent it's it's
sales,

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it's sales one one. You just talk to
people,

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but a lot of people be like, Well,

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tell me your story, but I don't know if
you'll you'll have to tell us.

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Is it important to tell us the story of
Seth,

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why he b the reason he became an attorney,

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and to talk about 2008 and

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and talk about starting in the one bedroom
apartment and what it take

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to grow to grow, or is it more important
to talk about how it really happens?

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Because I know a lot of attorneys.

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They have a dream. I think everyone has a
dream when they're going to law school.

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Doesn't pan out that way for a lot of
folks that I know.

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A lot of attorneys end up making less
money than they thought they were going

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to make. Most attorneys end up doing work
somewhere that's not in the courtroom.

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Most people end up using it a little bit
different.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, you're in the
business,

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but one of my best friends is a partner in
a firm.

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Been doing it for 30 years. And is it more
important because so many people want

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to achieve what you've achieved and go
down this journey and build what you've

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built, but so many don't.

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So is it rooted in why you became an
attorney what drove you,

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or is it from two thousand and eight to
this point,

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all the things you did? Is it who you are
or the things you did?

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I think it's both, right? I mean,

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I think that ~ I I think I think it's more
if I had to choose one of those two,

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I think it's the things that I did,

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but I don't do any of those things without
kind of the why to begin with,

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right? And I mean, I think for me,

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~ I always knew that I wanted to make an
impact in the world.

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I wanted to advocate for people,

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I wanted to fight for people. It was just
something that was in me from

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the time I was very, very young.

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~

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And you I like to argue, but but I also
like to really support people

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and and and and defend them. And I think
that there's ~ like for me just
personally,

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inherently, I get a lot of value out of
that,

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~ independent of any kind of money that
comes with it.

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I think the money flows from it because of
the impact you make.

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But I think that that really is what drove
me,

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in addition to the fact that when I was
working for other firms and I was seeing

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the quality or lack thereof of the work
that other lawyers were doing,

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I really realized, wow, there really truly
is an opportunity.

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So so what I wanted to do, I realized
there was a space for me to actually

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go in and fill and then to do it.

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But I think certainly ~ for those people
that are want you know at the bar,

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you know, do I start my own practice,

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do I start my own business or not?

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I think it's it's what you did after that
that really is important.

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But at the but very beginning

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You have to have the why. If you don't
have the why,

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if you don't have the passion,

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if you don't have the desire, then you're
gonna flame out very,

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very quickly. Like the only motivation is
like,

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I just wanna start my own business,

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I just wanna start my own practice,

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I just wanna make more money, I I don't
think that that's a strong enough

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why to keep you going. Because when it's
all said and done,

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you're gonna have to fight through a lot
of crap and you're gonna have

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to push through. And I think what makes
you,

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what gives you the energy

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to push through is that why?

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Mm-hmm. Yeah, doesn't that why,

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as you're sitting there talking about,

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and I reflect in all the trainings I do,

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the why is only necessary when it's real
hard.

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Right. And I think if you don't have that
tied down in the beginning,

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if you have to figure out along the way,

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it's going to get really ugly and dirty.

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And that's probably a lot of the people
when they wave the white flag.

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But if there is a true purpose,

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the why when you're starting, when it gets
really hard,

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that has to be strong enough to keep you
going.

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Right.

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Yeah, I mean there's no no question and
and it has for the last ~ what about

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the near near the last twenty years.

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I mean because because th there are no
matter what as you grow your business,

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there are challenges you're just gonna
have to fight through.

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There are you're there are plateau there,

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you reach plateaus, you reach ceilings,

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you have to break through. ~ and and and
and you have to have the the

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the the the passion, the why, the drive to
actually go through and break through

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and learn and adapt. 'Cause

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I mean there are I guess there are
businesses,

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right? If you own a maybe a you know
franchise,

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right, they'll give you the playbook,

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right? I mean, I'm not saying that it it's
~ simple.

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I've never done that, but like you're
still gonna have to learn along the way.

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But there is a playbook in many in those
cases.

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But for me, there's not a playbook,

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at least not one that I was given.

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And and and the thing is the playbook in
the business,

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and I'm sure this is the same in in real
estate or in any any industry.

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Things change, the world changes,

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the market forces change. ~ th there's j
competition changes,

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the consumer changes, the way that the
consumer consumes marketing,

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~ it changes. So you're constantly so so
the playbook that's working for you today,

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the playbook that worked for me in two
thousand and fifteen when I really started

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to grow, is absolutely not the playbook
that would work for me today.

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Now there are certain fundamentals,

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right, that will work, certain
fundamentals that I think will that

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will will apply to your business,

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to my business, to anybody's business when
you want to scale,

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but the playbook changes and you have to
be willing to adapt.

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And again, I think that brings you back to
the why,

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because when things get really hard,

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when you have to adapt, right,

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you still have to have that drive,

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you still have to have that North Star to
keep going and to keep fighting through.

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Well, you you talked about fundamentals.

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A lot of them stay the same. I I agree.

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Because everybody keeps on trying to
interrupt stuff.

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But if you go back to the beginning of the
things that built the in the beginning,

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you could do that again tomorrow.

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If it all fell apart, you could do that
again and build again.

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Are the fundamentals in the legal business
and what you're building in your firm,

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do they look like standards?

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Yeah, I mean I think I think to a great
extent they do look like standards.

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~ you know, we we we have a high standard
in our business and our practice.

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And I think when we have failed,

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when we have had setbacks, it's when we
haven't met those standards,

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right? It's it's and I think as a business
owner,

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it's when I've allowed us to to to to
accept something that

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is below our standards. And I think that I
think when I look back

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the standard that we set was extremely,

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extremely high when we were a small
boutique,

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right? And it was a lot easier to maintain
that standard because particularly

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because I had such a high standard for
myself and such a high work ethic

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~ and strong work ethic. And so the the
people that were around me were able

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to kind of feed off that. And we worked
very,

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very similarly. But as you scale,

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right, it's much, much harder to maintain
those standards,

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the quality

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experience for the qu a client,

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the the quality, legal representation,

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the the communication, a lot of that
really gets strained as you scale,

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especially if you're scaling really,

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really fast.

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How did you find through reflection,

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we don't have to talk about the failures
or the successes?

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What have you learned enough through
growing,

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through scaling, through some adjustments
and changes in your business that,

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~ here's now how to maintain standards in
the mid tier.

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Here's how to maintain standards in the
top tier of scalability and growth.

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Have you figured that out more or know
what it looks like,

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or you're still in the midst?

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~ I th I think to a great extent I know
what it looks like.

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Now, knowing what it looks like,

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knowing what needs to be done,

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and doing what needs to be done are two
very,

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very different things. But I think two to
you know,

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I think leadership and accountability are
like the two things that come to mind.

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Well, let me let me back up. Vision,

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clarity of vision and expectations,

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leadership and accountability.

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Right? I mean, if you don't have if your
team

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And y does not have clarity about what the
vision is and if they're

228
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,362
not aligned with it, then nothing else
really matters,

229
00:11:50,362 --> 00:11:52,723
right? And if you don't if you don't have
a direction,

230
00:11:52,723 --> 00:11:54,094
if you don't have the North Start,

231
00:11:54,094 --> 00:11:57,266
people don't really know where they're
going or what they're what they're part
of.

232
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But if they do, now I think most people
actually want to do great work.

233
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I think a lot of times people get really
frustrated with their team members,

234
00:12:05,951 --> 00:12:08,973
but sometimes you have to take a look at
yourself as a leader and ask yourself,

235
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have you provided the clarity?

236
00:12:12,738 --> 00:12:15,499
and the expectations that they need so
that the and then have

237
00:12:15,499 --> 00:12:17,359
you provided the tools, the resources,

238
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the support and the leadership to get the
job done and to fulfill

239
00:12:22,441 --> 00:12:24,301
the expectations and the standards.

240
00:12:24,301 --> 00:12:27,902
But if you have that vision, if you have
that clarity,

241
00:12:27,902 --> 00:12:32,163
if you if you communicate it, if you
communicate expectations,

242
00:12:32,163 --> 00:12:35,404
and then you have the leadership that is
there to support,

243
00:12:35,404 --> 00:12:39,005
you know, to lead, to manage and hold
people accountable,

244
00:12:39,005 --> 00:12:41,166
then I think you you can

245
00:12:41,728 --> 00:12:43,690
Maintain those standards and scale them.

246
00:12:44,642 --> 00:12:47,534
Yeah, the next kind of, even though I'm I
don't have questions here.

247
00:12:47,534 --> 00:12:51,526
Yeah. Right. But as I listen, but the
question was going to be in the beginning,

248
00:12:51,526 --> 00:12:55,628
it's like, okay, here's a guy that's been
really successful individually that's

249
00:12:55,628 --> 00:12:58,970
scaling his firm that has more vision and
dreams about what he's still going

250
00:12:58,970 --> 00:13:02,982
to build. We're talking about
entrepreneurship,

251
00:13:02,982 --> 00:13:06,434
but you're building a firm where you want
other attorneys to come and be

252
00:13:06,434 --> 00:13:08,315
a part of the thing you're building.

253
00:13:08,315 --> 00:13:12,698
What do you need to build to make them
want to be a part of yours?

254
00:13:13,644 --> 00:13:14,824
Versus starting their own.

255
00:13:16,002 --> 00:13:18,954
Yeah. I think you need to build some well

256
00:13:19,534 --> 00:13:20,618
It's what we just talked about a lot.

257
00:13:20,618 --> 00:13:21,812
That's why I kinda rolled into it.

258
00:13:22,370 --> 00:13:28,354
Yeah. ~ I think I think whether it's a I I
don't think it's like ~ for just

259
00:13:28,354 --> 00:13:29,785
for an attorney. I think it's for anybody,

260
00:13:29,785 --> 00:13:34,569
but I think you need to create ~ a space
for them to kind of achieve their

261
00:13:34,569 --> 00:13:37,161
own vision ~ to the extent that they can,

262
00:13:37,161 --> 00:13:42,615
right? I think ~ I think a lot of
attorneys ~ I think a lot of people,

263
00:13:42,615 --> 00:13:43,998
but but attorneys in particular,

264
00:13:43,998 --> 00:13:47,268
a lot of them don't have for for various
reasons.

265
00:13:47,268 --> 00:13:49,510
They may want to have their own business.

266
00:13:50,014 --> 00:13:53,715
~ but they may not you know, they may want
the freedom that comes with it,

267
00:13:53,715 --> 00:13:56,896
the autonomy, but they may not want the
responsibility.

268
00:13:56,896 --> 00:13:59,106
They may not want the risk, right?

269
00:13:59,106 --> 00:14:02,477
And so I think if you can give them some
of what they want,

270
00:14:02,477 --> 00:14:05,598
that freedom, that autonomy and that
opportunity,

271
00:14:05,598 --> 00:14:10,800
~ then then I think and w without those
other things that they don't want,

272
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,391
then I think you you have an opportunity
to attract them to you,

273
00:14:14,391 --> 00:14:18,462
not only ~ to come to you versus starting
their own business,

274
00:14:18,462 --> 00:14:19,482
but also

275
00:14:19,832 --> 00:14:23,194
coming to you versus going to another
another employer,

276
00:14:23,194 --> 00:14:24,623
another firm. And so, you know,

277
00:14:24,623 --> 00:14:26,044
that's what we we're trying to do.

278
00:14:26,044 --> 00:14:27,287
That's what we've tried to do.

279
00:14:27,287 --> 00:14:30,279
We have an amazing team of of lawyers.

280
00:14:30,279 --> 00:14:33,261
Probably this not probably, this is
without question,

281
00:14:33,261 --> 00:14:34,752
the strongest team of attorneys we've had.

282
00:14:34,752 --> 00:14:36,984
This is the strongest team, period,

283
00:14:36,984 --> 00:14:40,056
that we've had. And we've had a lot of
extremely talented people over the years.

284
00:14:40,056 --> 00:14:44,098
but I think collectively this is the the
strongest team.

285
00:14:44,098 --> 00:14:48,201
And it's maybe the most important thing is
also the most aligned team,

286
00:14:48,201 --> 00:14:49,202
right? I think that

287
00:14:49,528 --> 00:14:51,659
I think when we were growing to begin
with,

288
00:14:51,659 --> 00:14:57,058
we grew so fast and we were just hiring a
lot of people.

289
00:14:57,058 --> 00:14:58,707
I don't say anybody and everybody,

290
00:14:58,707 --> 00:15:02,464
because we we you know, we we hired a lot
of amazing talented people,

291
00:15:02,464 --> 00:15:07,395
but we hired so fast without the
leadership in place,

292
00:15:07,395 --> 00:15:09,798
without the accountability, without
clarity,

293
00:15:09,798 --> 00:15:13,952
and I think it I think it really ~ created
challenges for everyone.

294
00:15:16,076 --> 00:15:17,747
What's happening in your space?

295
00:15:17,747 --> 00:15:22,740
Is it touching your pillar of the legal
practice?

296
00:15:22,740 --> 00:15:26,552
Is AI affecting that? Because I'm not
going to talk about this.

297
00:15:26,552 --> 00:15:29,213
I just know as a business owner how I'm
using it now.

298
00:15:29,213 --> 00:15:33,686
And it's I'm going to go out on a limb
here and slap me down,

299
00:15:33,686 --> 00:15:35,377
beat me down. I have friends with
attorneys,

300
00:15:35,377 --> 00:15:38,919
but I can do a lot of the low-level work
now.

301
00:15:38,919 --> 00:15:43,241
I I right. I want my great legal advice to
say,

302
00:15:43,241 --> 00:15:44,382
hey, have we done this right?

303
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,942
But I can do a lot on the front end now,

304
00:15:46,942 --> 00:15:50,467
it seems. Yeah. That r whether it's right
or wrong,

305
00:15:50,467 --> 00:15:53,500
I think there's a lot of business owners
and entrepreneurs that I know that

306
00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:55,342
are doing the same site type of thing.

307
00:15:55,342 --> 00:15:58,516
So engage this with me. Have have this
conversation.

308
00:15:59,584 --> 00:16:02,716
AI is ~ very, very present in our space.

309
00:16:02,716 --> 00:16:06,498
I again it's probably I know not probably
it is present in everybody's space

310
00:16:06,498 --> 00:16:10,130
and everybody's life. And anybody who says
they don't use it,

311
00:16:10,130 --> 00:16:15,033
I I question their integrity because I
mean it's it's okay and it's it's

312
00:16:15,033 --> 00:16:16,493
i I think it's it's healthy, right?

313
00:16:16,493 --> 00:16:18,294
I think everybody at one point,

314
00:16:18,294 --> 00:16:19,759
including myself, is a little afraid,

315
00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:20,986
a little embarrassed, you know.

316
00:16:20,986 --> 00:16:24,318
But the reality is it's it's such a great
resource,

317
00:16:24,318 --> 00:16:28,070
such a great tool, and and it really can
enhance the work you're doing.

318
00:16:28,414 --> 00:16:31,685
~ it and and expedite a lot of what you're
doing.

319
00:16:31,685 --> 00:16:33,836
At the same and and we're using it.

320
00:16:33,836 --> 00:16:36,377
At the same time, you would be foolish,

321
00:16:36,377 --> 00:16:38,578
particularly as a lawyer, as a law firm,

322
00:16:38,578 --> 00:16:44,861
to just start to rely on it as if it is it
is it is fully reliable,

323
00:16:44,861 --> 00:16:50,133
bulletproof because it isn't. ~ And it
will never it it can I wanna

324
00:16:50,133 --> 00:16:54,125
say it can replace, but it can replace
certain lower level functions.

325
00:16:54,125 --> 00:16:56,966
And I think it can enhance and support

326
00:16:57,282 --> 00:17:03,294
higher level functions, but what it can't
do ~ is to fully replace really thoughtful

327
00:17:03,294 --> 00:17:07,385
legal judgment, ~ advocacy and empathy,

328
00:17:07,385 --> 00:17:09,425
right? I mean, I think that in our world,

329
00:17:09,425 --> 00:17:12,326
obviously there's different types of
lawyers and we haven't really got into
what

330
00:17:12,326 --> 00:17:13,814
I do. I'm a personal injury lawyer,

331
00:17:13,814 --> 00:17:15,284
a workers compensation lawyer.

332
00:17:15,284 --> 00:17:18,417
We represent consumers. We represent
people,

333
00:17:18,417 --> 00:17:24,589
not corporations. And ~ you're dealing
with people that are going through very
real

334
00:17:24,930 --> 00:17:25,930
injuries

335
00:17:25,873 --> 00:17:28,173
Very real trauma, very real pain,

336
00:17:28,173 --> 00:17:31,584
suffering economically, physically,

337
00:17:31,584 --> 00:17:33,654
emotionally. It's not just impacting them,

338
00:17:33,654 --> 00:17:35,615
it's impacting their families.

339
00:17:35,615 --> 00:17:41,996
Right. And so ~ AI can help to maybe
surface certain things

340
00:17:42,096 --> 00:17:45,977
so that you as a lawyer can talk to your
client about them and to consider them,

341
00:17:45,977 --> 00:17:49,477
but it's never going to replace your
judgment and it's certainly never going

342
00:17:49,477 --> 00:17:52,718
to replace that human connection.

343
00:17:53,004 --> 00:17:56,717
which will always be there as long as this
type of work exists.

344
00:17:56,717 --> 00:18:02,121
And so, ~ but but we are using it in a way
to help create a lot more efficiency.

345
00:18:02,121 --> 00:18:07,756
We're using it ~ there are certain things
that we can do with it that historically

346
00:18:07,756 --> 00:18:12,820
a human being would have had to do and
would have taken hours and hours and
hours.

347
00:18:12,820 --> 00:18:16,253
For example, ~ you need to file a claim.

348
00:18:16,253 --> 00:18:17,474
And so

349
00:18:18,232 --> 00:18:19,963
Filing a claim, you're picking up the
phone,

350
00:18:19,963 --> 00:18:22,454
you're waiting for somebody from the
insurance company to pick up.

351
00:18:22,454 --> 00:18:23,594
A lot of times they don't pick up.

352
00:18:23,594 --> 00:18:25,195
A lot of times you're on hold.

353
00:18:25,195 --> 00:18:30,187
You could spend literally hours before you
reach somebody to file the claim.

354
00:18:30,187 --> 00:18:34,219
Now you can click a button using an agent
and you can have ~ you know,

355
00:18:34,219 --> 00:18:38,420
the agentic AI call and ~ wait and wait,

356
00:18:38,420 --> 00:18:40,151
and if you get hung up on call again.

357
00:18:40,151 --> 00:18:41,502
And so at the click of a button,

358
00:18:41,502 --> 00:18:43,602
you could literally file dozens,

359
00:18:43,602 --> 00:18:47,154
if not hundreds, of claims. They're not
gonna happen in that moment.

360
00:18:47,534 --> 00:18:51,387
But it's going to happen without a human
having to just stay on the phone.

361
00:18:51,387 --> 00:18:53,468
Well, while you're doing n now,

362
00:18:53,468 --> 00:18:57,421
rather than that individual waiting and
waiting and waiting

363
00:18:57,421 --> 00:18:59,102
to do this administrative function,

364
00:18:59,102 --> 00:19:02,704
that person can be talking to this client
or that client or another client

365
00:19:02,925 --> 00:19:05,326
or talking to an insurance adjuster about
a claim.

366
00:19:05,326 --> 00:19:08,388
They can be talking to the lawyer about
the case,

367
00:19:08,388 --> 00:19:13,002
developing a strategy. So I think that ~
that's just one example,

368
00:19:13,002 --> 00:19:15,664
right? It it can also expedite the
process.

369
00:19:15,664 --> 00:19:16,664
So now

370
00:19:16,428 --> 00:19:18,920
you can get medical records in a much more
efficient way,

371
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,053
which to to to to to you it doesn't really
make a difference.

372
00:19:23,053 --> 00:19:27,726
But like to to to the client, what it
means is a faster outcome,

373
00:19:27,726 --> 00:19:32,209
right? And so it can speed things up and
it can also improve the quality.

374
00:19:32,209 --> 00:19:36,222
It can help identify opportunities that
you might have overlooked accidentally

375
00:19:36,222 --> 00:19:39,364
or maybe you just didn't see it because
there's so much content.

376
00:19:39,364 --> 00:19:42,256
There's so much evidence. So it can help
scan the evidence,

377
00:19:42,256 --> 00:19:45,068
scan the medical records, scan the phone
calls.

378
00:19:45,558 --> 00:19:47,742
and help to just bring things to the
surface,

379
00:19:47,742 --> 00:19:51,971
which you then can use your judgment on to
act and ~ you know,

380
00:19:51,971 --> 00:19:55,458
and and and get a get a different and or
faster outcome on the case.

381
00:19:56,044 --> 00:20:01,017
Yeah. ~ it's and I think today how we're
talking about today,

382
00:20:01,017 --> 00:20:03,516
we weren't talking this way twelve months
ago,

383
00:20:03,516 --> 00:20:06,350
it was different. Twenty four months ago
it was different.

384
00:20:06,350 --> 00:20:09,742
So if that's the case, we might have a
different conversation in four months.

385
00:20:10,744 --> 00:20:11,744
We probably will.

386
00:20:11,862 --> 00:20:13,512
Right. Yeah. It feels it feels like,

387
00:20:13,512 --> 00:20:15,061
this is the legal profession, huh?

388
00:20:15,714 --> 00:20:17,636
Yeah, I mean it I mean look, it's it's
present,

389
00:20:17,636 --> 00:20:20,608
it's here, it's I mean, it there are,

390
00:20:20,608 --> 00:20:24,021
you know, four or five companies that you
show up at a conference and they're there,

391
00:20:24,021 --> 00:20:26,963
and those are just the ones that are
making the investment to market.

392
00:20:26,963 --> 00:20:29,405
I mean, there's t dozens, if not hundreds,

393
00:20:29,405 --> 00:20:33,979
more. I I post on LinkedIn and I'll get
hit up by twenty different companies that

394
00:20:33,979 --> 00:20:39,143
do AI and you know, most of them have some
niche that they're focused on.

395
00:20:39,143 --> 00:20:41,706
One is on data, one is on marketing,

396
00:20:41,706 --> 00:20:44,278
one is on sales, one is on legal

397
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,691
production. Like I mean, I c th one is on,

398
00:20:46,691 --> 00:20:49,711
you know, reception work. I mean there's
and and I'll get hit up

399
00:20:49,711 --> 00:20:52,162
by literally dozens on one post.

400
00:20:52,162 --> 00:20:54,353
So I mean it's there, it's out there.

401
00:20:54,353 --> 00:20:58,234
but there are some really, really talented
people that we're that we're working with

402
00:20:58,234 --> 00:21:00,374
and other talented people that we've
talked to.

403
00:21:00,374 --> 00:21:02,445
I say it's funny because we're talking
about people,

404
00:21:02,445 --> 00:21:05,756
but but really ~ but I mean they're the
ones that are helping to

405
00:21:05,756 --> 00:21:10,037
to build this technology and but the
technology is powerful and I think that

406
00:21:10,037 --> 00:21:14,038
you would be foolish in any industry not
to leverage the technology.

407
00:21:14,412 --> 00:21:18,365
Yeah, there was a time where I was afraid
if we did it,

408
00:21:18,365 --> 00:21:20,427
you know, what would people think?

409
00:21:20,427 --> 00:21:21,768
What would my employees think?

410
00:21:21,768 --> 00:21:24,430
Would, you know, would people want to come
work for us?

411
00:21:24,430 --> 00:21:28,664
Would they want to stay? And and I I I I I
somewhere I heard a statistic

412
00:21:28,664 --> 00:21:31,597
or some some information that if you don't
have it,

413
00:21:31,597 --> 00:21:35,920
it's gonna actually harm you. So like it's
things have already started

414
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,902
to shift where people were afraid of it,

415
00:21:37,902 --> 00:21:42,115
but now if you don't have it, you're not
gonna be able to retain or recruit

416
00:21:42,115 --> 00:21:43,115
the best talent.

417
00:21:43,424 --> 00:21:46,456
Yeah, it's not that I think everybody gets
scared and and we were talking about

418
00:21:46,456 --> 00:21:48,476
this. It's it's right along the idea with
what you're saying.

419
00:21:48,476 --> 00:21:51,640
I don't know who said it, but it's not
that AI is gonna put us out of jobs,

420
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,252
right? It's the people using it that are
going to.

421
00:21:55,468 --> 00:21:56,530
Yeah. I mean of course

422
00:21:56,918 --> 00:21:58,680
Yeah, the efficiency that's going to be
gained,

423
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:03,044
the the the the multiple that we're gonna
be able to perform transactions represent

424
00:22:03,044 --> 00:22:05,145
clients just goes up exponentially.

425
00:22:05,145 --> 00:22:07,729
So the people utilizing it, a strong
argument,

426
00:22:07,729 --> 00:22:09,350
they might be able to two two times,

427
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:11,753
three times, four times, five times the
transactions.

428
00:22:11,753 --> 00:22:15,126
That's gonna put people that were at the
bottom twenty thir thirty percent tier

429
00:22:15,126 --> 00:22:17,088
in any industry probably out of a job.

430
00:22:17,944 --> 00:22:20,015
Yeah, I think it's it's certainly
possible.

431
00:22:20,015 --> 00:22:22,076
But I I recently I I read some studies.

432
00:22:22,076 --> 00:22:26,638
One was from Yale and the other was ~ from
one of the consulting groups.

433
00:22:26,638 --> 00:22:32,200
And ~ the the the conclusion was not that
AI is going to necessarily

434
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,171
put people it wasn't it's like it's not
about putting people out of business,

435
00:22:36,171 --> 00:22:38,542
it's not about shrinking your workforce.

436
00:22:38,542 --> 00:22:44,965
You can utilize AI to either grow or to
shrink your workforce.

437
00:22:44,965 --> 00:22:47,120
If you choose to, you can certainly shrink
it.

438
00:22:47,734 --> 00:22:50,315
~ and you can stay small, right?

439
00:22:50,315 --> 00:22:53,456
~ but if you use it correctly,

440
00:22:53,456 --> 00:22:57,817
if you want to grow, you can grow and you
will actually increase your workforce.

441
00:22:57,817 --> 00:23:03,249
You may lose some of those lower level
team members or or those lower level sort

442
00:23:03,249 --> 00:23:07,530
of folks that were doing the
administrative functions can now do
additional work.

443
00:23:07,530 --> 00:23:09,281
So it's not about cutting people,

444
00:23:09,281 --> 00:23:12,602
it's really about reallocating resources.

445
00:23:12,602 --> 00:23:13,822
That's really what it's about.

446
00:23:14,458 --> 00:23:16,039
and so that's you know, that's my hope,

447
00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:18,869
that's my plan. That's we're we're seeing
a lot of ~ you know,

448
00:23:18,869 --> 00:23:22,634
positive movement ~ from it. ~ we don't
just to be clear,

449
00:23:22,634 --> 00:23:26,506
we don't use AI in lieu of people.

450
00:23:26,506 --> 00:23:29,638
We use it really to to support the people
and we we have a human

451
00:23:29,638 --> 00:23:31,289
in the loop anywhere we're using it.

452
00:23:31,289 --> 00:23:34,532
~ but we are finding it to be incredibly
powerful.

453
00:23:34,532 --> 00:23:38,014
~ and and we're really excited about where
we're at and where we're going.

454
00:23:38,498 --> 00:23:42,301
Yeah. What if you go back to I don't know
the exact years,

455
00:23:42,301 --> 00:23:44,233
but I believe early in your legal
practice,

456
00:23:44,233 --> 00:23:47,506
I believe you were working on the other
side of where you work now.

457
00:23:47,506 --> 00:23:52,520
Right. So you went, Ugh. But it not
necessarily about

458
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,663
you representing insurance companies and
now being on this side representing

459
00:23:55,663 --> 00:24:01,748
consumers. How has been on both sides of
this made you better?

460
00:24:03,628 --> 00:24:05,819
Well, without without a doubt,

461
00:24:05,819 --> 00:24:09,271
I mean, doing that work initially for
about the first five years of

462
00:24:09,271 --> 00:24:12,483
my career was invaluable because I
learned,

463
00:24:12,483 --> 00:24:14,864
you know, the the inside, you know,

464
00:24:14,864 --> 00:24:16,505
the the how they played the game,

465
00:24:16,505 --> 00:24:18,366
why they played the game the way that they
did.

466
00:24:18,366 --> 00:24:22,529
and it was also incredibly valuable just
to learn,

467
00:24:22,529 --> 00:24:24,810
you know, the the the the practice,

468
00:24:24,810 --> 00:24:29,113
right? And I think you get a I think those
five years were extremely beneficial.

469
00:24:29,113 --> 00:24:31,274
I learned from some really, really smart
people.

470
00:24:31,850 --> 00:24:33,621
if you've been doing this for a very long
time.

471
00:24:33,621 --> 00:24:40,197
~ but I but in there's a in our world,

472
00:24:40,197 --> 00:24:43,059
there's a bit more structure in a defense,

473
00:24:43,059 --> 00:24:47,752
insurance defense practice. ~ and they
don't give you as much volume up front.

474
00:24:47,752 --> 00:24:50,826
So you have fewer cases, you have more
support,

475
00:24:50,826 --> 00:24:54,088
more sort of oversight and management and
training.

476
00:24:54,088 --> 00:25:00,684
so you combine that with the actual
knowledge that I gained from doing that
work.

477
00:25:01,406 --> 00:25:04,827
and it really set me up for success when I
when I flipped sides,

478
00:25:04,827 --> 00:25:08,648
I went with full confidence. I felt like I
knew exactly what I was doing

479
00:25:08,648 --> 00:25:13,170
~ to handle probably what was about eighty
to ninety percent of the cases.

480
00:25:13,170 --> 00:25:14,530
There were about, you know, 10,

481
00:25:14,530 --> 00:25:16,691
15% that I'd never seen before,

482
00:25:16,691 --> 00:25:19,312
different issues that I had not dealt with
before.

483
00:25:19,312 --> 00:25:21,272
But you know, I learned those in time as
well.

484
00:25:21,272 --> 00:25:25,503
Of course the one thing the one thing that
I didn't learn ~ was how

485
00:25:25,503 --> 00:25:27,194
to run a business. Right. So like

486
00:25:27,694 --> 00:25:30,735
~ you know, as an attorney, you don't go
to law school to learn business,

487
00:25:30,735 --> 00:25:32,115
you don't learn finance. I mean,

488
00:25:32,115 --> 00:25:34,766
some people might have a degree in finance
or accounting,

489
00:25:34,766 --> 00:25:39,717
~ marketing, but you know, I learned I
studied political science and philosophy.

490
00:25:39,717 --> 00:25:45,429
So it didn't really I didn't come out with
any like real ~ skills that

491
00:25:45,429 --> 00:25:47,119
I could apply as a business owner.

492
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,460
And so while the insurance defense work
set me up for success as a lawyer,

493
00:25:51,460 --> 00:25:55,742
it it certainly didn't contribute and and
help me ~ you know,

494
00:25:55,742 --> 00:25:56,832
as a as a business owner.

495
00:25:57,270 --> 00:25:59,152
And I think that I think, you know,

496
00:25:59,152 --> 00:26:01,694
th so in some ways the not in some ways,

497
00:26:01,694 --> 00:26:05,257
the the legal practice for somebody that
does it is the easy part,

498
00:26:05,257 --> 00:26:06,388
right? That's what you go to school for.

499
00:26:06,388 --> 00:26:09,490
That's what you do. But running a
business,

500
00:26:09,490 --> 00:26:11,642
scaling a business, marketing a business,

501
00:26:11,642 --> 00:26:14,374
very different world. I talked to a a
friend of mine,

502
00:26:14,374 --> 00:26:17,767
actually a former employee, who who
recently started his own practice,

503
00:26:17,767 --> 00:26:19,949
you know, and we were talking this morning
and I said,

504
00:26:19,949 --> 00:26:22,311
Look, you know, you could be a great
lawyer,

505
00:26:22,311 --> 00:26:24,152
but if you don't know how to get any
business,

506
00:26:24,152 --> 00:26:25,830
it doesn't really matter. And he You know,

507
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:26,830
that's

508
00:26:26,454 --> 00:26:28,576
That's my challenge. He said, I'm a I'm a
damn good lawyer.

509
00:26:28,576 --> 00:26:30,618
I don't know how to get any business yet.

510
00:26:30,618 --> 00:26:33,240
~ now he's actually doing a lot of really
good things,

511
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,123
so ~ I told him not to worry, it's gonna
take some time.

512
00:26:36,123 --> 00:26:40,377
But you know, you've got to know how to
build the business,

513
00:26:40,377 --> 00:26:43,512
you know, if you if you wanna have a great
business for sure.

514
00:26:44,408 --> 00:26:48,559
Do you think there's a an analogy to be
made about you seeing both sides

515
00:26:48,759 --> 00:26:52,410
of the same type of business on
representing insurance companies and

516
00:26:52,410 --> 00:26:56,802
now on the consumer side? Is there
something that the average employee,

517
00:26:56,802 --> 00:26:59,333
the average business owner out here,

518
00:26:59,333 --> 00:27:02,303
that they can take from that about seeing
both sides,

519
00:27:02,303 --> 00:27:04,964
that they should try to find that in their
business?

520
00:27:04,964 --> 00:27:10,556
Because I don't think there's a lot of
scenarios where or can replicate what
you've

521
00:27:10,556 --> 00:27:11,556
done.

522
00:27:11,468 --> 00:27:13,519
Working for one working for one company,

523
00:27:13,519 --> 00:27:15,560
doing it a certain way or companies,

524
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,683
and then learning all that and that making
you so much better in the same industry,

525
00:27:19,683 --> 00:27:23,606
but in another role, another place that
literally is on an opposing

526
00:27:23,606 --> 00:27:25,007
or an opposite side of something.

527
00:27:25,007 --> 00:27:27,488
Is there something you could really
transfer to a lot of people to say,

528
00:27:27,488 --> 00:27:28,569
hey, this is what I took from it?

529
00:27:28,569 --> 00:27:29,710
Go and find this.

530
00:27:30,872 --> 00:27:35,634
I yeah, I don't I don't know because this
is my my my entire professional career

531
00:27:35,634 --> 00:27:37,265
has been limited to this industry.

532
00:27:37,265 --> 00:27:41,876
~ so I don't know what other like sort of
comparable industries there

533
00:27:41,876 --> 00:27:46,968
are where you're learning ~ something on
one side and then applying it to the
other.

534
00:27:46,968 --> 00:27:48,039
I'd have to think through that.

535
00:27:48,039 --> 00:27:51,766
But there's no question that there's no
question that working inside

536
00:27:51,766 --> 00:27:55,352
a business and learning how a business is
operated,

537
00:27:55,352 --> 00:28:00,064
learning certain subject matter exp
becoming a subject matter expert

538
00:28:01,176 --> 00:28:03,818
can apply when you start your own
business,

539
00:28:03,818 --> 00:28:06,249
whether it's ~ the same business,

540
00:28:06,249 --> 00:28:09,001
the same industry or not. so I think that,

541
00:28:09,001 --> 00:28:12,673
you know, again, I I I wish I could give
you an analogy,

542
00:28:12,673 --> 00:28:14,804
but I or come you know, something
comparable,

543
00:28:14,804 --> 00:28:16,595
but off the top of my head I can't.

544
00:28:16,595 --> 00:28:22,058
I just know that I I think that in all
businesses and all experiences,

545
00:28:22,058 --> 00:28:25,930
there are gonna be some there's gonna be
some subject matter expertise

546
00:28:25,930 --> 00:28:28,812
and some transferable skills that you can
take.

547
00:28:29,310 --> 00:28:32,342
~ to whatever business. I mean my kid is
five,

548
00:28:32,342 --> 00:28:34,183
he's playing baseball, he's playing
basketball,

549
00:28:34,183 --> 00:28:37,896
he's playing football. My wife my wife
wants him to do ballet even though there's

550
00:28:37,896 --> 00:28:39,697
no interest in it. ~ you know,

551
00:28:39,697 --> 00:28:43,720
but we're trying to give him and and teach
him and train his body and

552
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,552
his mind so that no matter what he gets
into,

553
00:28:46,552 --> 00:28:51,125
he can adapt ~ and he can have the like
the the the the requisite skills

554
00:28:51,125 --> 00:28:54,067
and transferable skills to whatever he's
gonna do.

555
00:28:54,067 --> 00:28:56,468
And I think that the same is probably true
here.

556
00:28:56,468 --> 00:28:58,550
But that being said,

557
00:28:58,784 --> 00:29:01,648
Is there another profession? I I I just
don't you know,

558
00:29:01,648 --> 00:29:06,195
I don't know. I'm sure that there are I'm
I'm sure that there are.

559
00:29:06,195 --> 00:29:07,195
I just I don't know.

560
00:29:07,330 --> 00:29:08,460
many of them. That's what I'm saying.

561
00:29:08,460 --> 00:29:13,572
There's not many. And I and I just having
the insight that you you doing that first

562
00:29:13,952 --> 00:29:19,973
job, it it it's representing a complete
opposing side made you

563
00:29:19,973 --> 00:29:22,894
so much better and more prepared to do
this thing over here.

564
00:29:22,894 --> 00:29:25,375
We could say that about any role inside of
companies,

565
00:29:25,375 --> 00:29:28,106
but it's the same company trying to
achieve the same objectives,

566
00:29:28,106 --> 00:29:32,737
doing the same things. It's almost how
does somebody intentionally replicate hey,

567
00:29:32,737 --> 00:29:36,728
to to have two feet over in this entire
opposite side

568
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:38,952
Seeing how something works. I don't know.

569
00:29:38,952 --> 00:29:40,573
It's just I just thought about it in the
moment.

570
00:29:40,573 --> 00:29:45,979
Like that probably gave you a leg up and a
head start on how most people

571
00:29:45,979 --> 00:29:47,520
get to go through life professionally.

572
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,162
I bet it prepared you immensely.

573
00:29:50,122 --> 00:29:55,874
It it absolutely was I I don't say that I
couldn't have done it without it,

574
00:29:55,874 --> 00:29:58,653
but I when I came out on my own,

575
00:29:58,653 --> 00:30:02,806
I like I said, I came out with an immense
amount of confidence and credibility.

576
00:30:02,806 --> 00:30:05,326
Right. So I think when I was able to
switch sides,

577
00:30:05,326 --> 00:30:08,847
I picked up the phone, the defense
attorneys knew immediately,

578
00:30:08,847 --> 00:30:12,218
based on my experience, based on where I
came from,

579
00:30:12,218 --> 00:30:16,009
that I knew what I was doing, and then of
course I showed them through my work.

580
00:30:16,009 --> 00:30:17,760
And and I I knew that

581
00:30:18,006 --> 00:30:23,600
And I I knew that because of the work that
I did and I understood exactly like their

582
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,671
pain points, what their challenges are.

583
00:30:25,671 --> 00:30:28,223
I I think emotional intelligence is a
really,

584
00:30:28,223 --> 00:30:31,615
really critical thing too. So it's not
just the substance of what I knew,

585
00:30:31,615 --> 00:30:34,898
but it was the emotional intelligence that
I was able to develop,

586
00:30:34,898 --> 00:30:37,620
knowing what buttons to push, when to push
them,

587
00:30:37,620 --> 00:30:41,753
how to push them. that I think is kind of
it's like it's not something that

588
00:30:41,753 --> 00:30:42,823
a lot of people would think about,

589
00:30:42,823 --> 00:30:46,476
not even a lot of lawyers, but it's
something that it was very valuable.

590
00:30:46,806 --> 00:30:49,107
to me and to this day has been incredibly
valuable.

591
00:30:49,107 --> 00:30:50,797
But the only thing I was just thinking,

592
00:30:50,797 --> 00:30:53,388
the only thing that might be comparable
is,

593
00:30:53,388 --> 00:30:57,552
you know, if you like cybersecurity and
hacking,

594
00:30:57,552 --> 00:30:59,223
you know what I mean? But you know,

595
00:30:59,223 --> 00:31:01,465
where where where somebody's you know,

596
00:31:01,465 --> 00:31:04,847
they wore the they were I don't know if
the black hat and then they switched

597
00:31:04,847 --> 00:31:05,862
to the white hat, but you know,

598
00:31:05,862 --> 00:31:06,862
that was you go

599
00:31:06,830 --> 00:31:08,283
Usually that happens with a bad moment,

600
00:31:08,283 --> 00:31:10,418
like the FBI or something's knocking on
your door and they're like,

601
00:31:10,418 --> 00:31:12,543
Hey, you want to help us? Or I don't know.

602
00:31:12,543 --> 00:31:13,816
I'm assuming that's how that would go.

603
00:31:14,006 --> 00:31:18,698
Yeah, so so otherwise I really I can't
think of ~ I can't really think

604
00:31:18,698 --> 00:31:20,362
of another another industry, but

605
00:31:20,460 --> 00:31:21,711
You were smiling a little bit,

606
00:31:21,711 --> 00:31:25,095
man. There's an anarchist somewhere inside
but death in inside a inside

607
00:31:25,095 --> 00:31:26,927
of Seth somewhere there. There's something
going on.

608
00:31:26,927 --> 00:31:27,927
~

609
00:31:27,714 --> 00:31:28,714
Yeah.

610
00:31:30,402 --> 00:31:31,953
He didn't want to go there. So hey,

611
00:31:31,953 --> 00:31:33,203
when you were when you started,

612
00:31:33,203 --> 00:31:37,355
when you started your firm, what was your
what'd you do to go get new clients?

613
00:31:37,355 --> 00:31:38,875
Because as we talked, what your guy said,

614
00:31:38,875 --> 00:31:40,186
he's like, I'm a damn good attorney.

615
00:31:40,186 --> 00:31:41,787
The struggle is finding clients.

616
00:31:41,787 --> 00:31:43,627
Yeah. That's in the real estate business,

617
00:31:43,627 --> 00:31:46,538
that's in the legal practice. I've leased
space to doctors.

618
00:31:46,538 --> 00:31:47,538
If they step out on their own,

619
00:31:47,489 --> 00:31:50,370
that's their issue. What did you what did
you do?

620
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,472
I simple. I just talked to people by
networks,

621
00:31:53,472 --> 00:31:56,404
right? I mean I think that I think in i
it's interesting.

622
00:31:56,404 --> 00:31:58,216
The fun going back to fundamentals,

623
00:31:58,216 --> 00:32:02,829
right? The the fundamentals I think in any
business are you you it's relationships.

624
00:32:02,829 --> 00:32:05,461
Mo most, not all businesses are very
particularly when it's

625
00:32:05,461 --> 00:32:07,023
a professional service business,

626
00:32:07,023 --> 00:32:08,964
it it's a relationship business,

627
00:32:08,964 --> 00:32:10,876
right? You and I w we're we're meeting
now,

628
00:32:10,876 --> 00:32:12,157
but we're building a relationship.

629
00:32:12,157 --> 00:32:13,728
There might be an opportunity for us.

630
00:32:13,728 --> 00:32:15,960
I think when you start your business

631
00:32:16,738 --> 00:32:20,361
what what appears to be a disadvantage is
actually a huge advantage.

632
00:32:20,361 --> 00:32:21,872
You typically don't have money,

633
00:32:21,872 --> 00:32:26,126
but you have time. And with that time you
can go and begin building relationships.

634
00:32:26,126 --> 00:32:29,128
As you start to scale, you don't have as
much time.

635
00:32:29,128 --> 00:32:30,530
As you start to have more money,

636
00:32:30,530 --> 00:32:34,293
you don't have quite that that that

637
00:32:36,675 --> 00:32:40,868
you can do things more efficiently just by
taking the money and doing marketing

638
00:32:40,868 --> 00:32:45,222
and s and advertising. But I think at the
end of the day it's the relationships

639
00:32:45,612 --> 00:32:49,384
that are so so critical to beginning to
build a relationship.

640
00:32:49,384 --> 00:32:52,816
~ and I think for somebody who's starting
out a a business,

641
00:32:52,816 --> 00:32:54,527
particularly a professional service
business,

642
00:32:54,527 --> 00:32:57,529
if you can utilize that network and build
that network,

643
00:32:57,529 --> 00:33:01,611
generate business, ~ then it really is
going to give you a lot

644
00:33:01,611 --> 00:33:06,284
of stability and security as you then add
on and take some risk in

645
00:33:06,284 --> 00:33:10,666
how you're going to market. ~ so I think I
mean I think that that

646
00:33:10,666 --> 00:33:14,028
was the main reason I also got very lucky
with some of my initial

647
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:16,271
relationships, it is a bit of a numbers
game.

648
00:33:16,271 --> 00:33:19,073
So some of those people only referred one
case.

649
00:33:19,073 --> 00:33:22,516
Some of those people referred to ten
cases.

650
00:33:22,516 --> 00:33:25,698
And then I had a few that send me
literally hundreds of cases.

651
00:33:25,698 --> 00:33:29,120
Right. But but in order to to get to that,

652
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,183
~ you had to excuse me, you had to have
the relationships with enough people.

653
00:33:33,183 --> 00:33:35,445
And a lot of those people didn't send me a
single case.

654
00:33:35,445 --> 00:33:37,366
Right. But it's a numbers game.

655
00:33:37,366 --> 00:33:41,359
and if you if you if you if you generate
enough if you haven't if

656
00:33:41,359 --> 00:33:42,830
you build enough relationships

657
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,491
With the right people, you're gonna
generate enough business.

658
00:33:45,491 --> 00:33:47,552
And the one thing that I didn't have,

659
00:33:47,552 --> 00:33:51,733
and I'm like debating myself, ~ is social
media,

660
00:33:51,733 --> 00:33:56,415
right? So I think that the ability to to
build a business today

661
00:33:56,895 --> 00:34:00,023
is significantly easier. ~ well,

662
00:34:00,023 --> 00:34:02,847
let me back up. There are different
aspects that are harder,

663
00:34:02,847 --> 00:34:05,198
but in terms of just creating a network,

664
00:34:05,198 --> 00:34:09,340
generating referrals, I think it's much
easier today because you can build

665
00:34:09,340 --> 00:34:11,991
a brand organically much cheaper.

666
00:34:12,194 --> 00:34:13,514
than you could back then. I mean,

667
00:34:13,514 --> 00:34:16,657
back then, it's like how do you how do you
do it?

668
00:34:16,657 --> 00:34:18,108
Do you you have to make phone calls,

669
00:34:18,108 --> 00:34:19,418
you have to take people to lunch.

670
00:34:19,418 --> 00:34:22,271
Now you can build a network. You can s you
know do posts.

671
00:34:22,271 --> 00:34:24,933
I've I've I've got a whole network of
people that I've never met,

672
00:34:24,933 --> 00:34:28,304
but I feel like we're friends through
LinkedIn and Instagram.

673
00:34:28,304 --> 00:34:33,860
So ~ but I I think that's a that's a
something that and actually ironically

674
00:34:33,860 --> 00:34:39,534
~ one of my sort of 90 day we call them
rocks or initiatives or projects

675
00:34:39,806 --> 00:34:44,161
is to kind of redevelop our referral
marketing program ~ because I think that
there

676
00:34:44,161 --> 00:34:46,370
still remains such a huge opportunity.

677
00:34:46,370 --> 00:34:50,106
I feel like we've kind of gotten away from
that because we've just invested

678
00:34:50,106 --> 00:34:54,590
so many millions and millions and millions
of dollars into our advertising funnel.

679
00:34:55,244 --> 00:35:00,267
Hmm. When's the last time that you hired

680
00:35:00,267 --> 00:35:04,490
a professional service new? You don't have
to say what it what it was,

681
00:35:04,490 --> 00:35:06,241
but you could, I guess it'd be better if
you did.

682
00:35:06,241 --> 00:35:08,482
Like good what is it a new accountant?

683
00:35:08,482 --> 00:35:12,424
It could even be professional service on
some commercial buildings home,

684
00:35:12,424 --> 00:35:16,827
a landscaper. it could be a you knew new ~
I don't know,

685
00:35:16,827 --> 00:35:20,049
utility divider, IT provider. Has that
happened in the past two,

686
00:35:20,049 --> 00:35:22,050
three months? You've hired someone new?

687
00:35:23,126 --> 00:35:27,475
~ it's not an employee. ~ last two or
three months,

688
00:35:27,475 --> 00:35:29,459
no, but the last two or three years,

689
00:35:29,459 --> 00:35:30,602
yes. Yeah.

690
00:35:30,798 --> 00:35:34,411
How how did you go about hiring them when
you needed a new service?

691
00:35:34,956 --> 00:35:36,718
Referrals. I mean, that's that's how.

692
00:35:36,718 --> 00:35:38,629
I mean, it's it's pretty simple.

693
00:35:38,629 --> 00:35:43,524
I mean I I sort and I again I s I market
using all the digital platforms.

694
00:35:43,524 --> 00:35:48,828
Of course, I'm marketing to a consumer
that may not have the same network that

695
00:35:48,828 --> 00:35:52,982
I have. ~ but for me, my network,

696
00:35:52,982 --> 00:35:55,945
I'm gonna reach into my network ~ to find,

697
00:35:55,945 --> 00:36:00,038
you know, to find to find my partners.

698
00:36:00,038 --> 00:36:01,760
Now with that being said, I have hired

699
00:36:02,412 --> 00:36:04,453
you know, I mean my marketing agency,

700
00:36:04,453 --> 00:36:07,686
I found them ~ through through digital
marketing,

701
00:36:07,686 --> 00:36:10,859
right? So I guess that's actually the that
that may be an exception.

702
00:36:10,859 --> 00:36:12,890
And it's a it's a fairly large account.

703
00:36:12,890 --> 00:36:18,115
~ but but it was it it started with

704
00:36:18,282 --> 00:36:23,309
~ a digital search, but it over the course
it took three months.

705
00:36:23,309 --> 00:36:25,881
I mean the sales cycle I drove them crazy,

706
00:36:25,881 --> 00:36:26,881
you know, and

707
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:30,832
and and by the time it was done it w it
was a a relationship.

708
00:36:30,832 --> 00:36:34,404
I would not have done it based solely on
the digital marketing.

709
00:36:34,404 --> 00:36:37,895
It was th it was through the digital
marketing is what got me in the door,

710
00:36:37,895 --> 00:36:43,008
but the relationship and the ongoing trust
building is what what kept me there.

711
00:36:43,532 --> 00:36:46,122
Yeah. So final question here on on this.

712
00:36:46,122 --> 00:36:49,385
I I could sit and talk to ~ we're not even
unlocking the brilliance,

713
00:36:49,385 --> 00:36:51,025
the legal mind. I I know it's there.

714
00:36:51,025 --> 00:36:52,256
We're not even touching on that,

715
00:36:52,256 --> 00:36:56,978
right? But ~ what's really valuable

716
00:36:56,978 --> 00:37:00,529
to you ~ w as you're growing your firm?

717
00:37:00,529 --> 00:37:02,510
It's almost like a personal philosophy,

718
00:37:02,510 --> 00:37:04,791
but when you think about a daily basis,

719
00:37:04,791 --> 00:37:07,282
your quiet thoughts, you talk about your
son and your marriage,

720
00:37:07,282 --> 00:37:09,874
and but you you built this to tons of
other attorneys.

721
00:37:09,874 --> 00:37:10,874
~

722
00:37:10,818 --> 00:37:12,640
What's really important in your quiet
moment,

723
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,003
the thing that really drives you crazy
when you don't have it,

724
00:37:15,003 --> 00:37:17,165
you don't get it, it doesn't work that
way.

725
00:37:17,165 --> 00:37:18,165
What's the thing?

726
00:37:18,796 --> 00:37:23,727
I think the word that comes to my mind
over and over and over again is alignment.

727
00:37:23,727 --> 00:37:30,309
Because alignment is is is is covers all
of those things like

728
00:37:30,449 --> 00:37:33,150
positivity, hard work, working with
urgency,

729
00:37:33,150 --> 00:37:36,511
caring, ~ you know, going the extra mile.

730
00:37:36,511 --> 00:37:39,032
These are all values that are are very,

731
00:37:39,032 --> 00:37:41,332
very important to me. And I want that in
everybody.

732
00:37:41,332 --> 00:37:44,383
But it's it's the alignment, right?

733
00:37:44,383 --> 00:37:47,774
Like ca 'cause like the what what what may
work for

734
00:37:48,024 --> 00:37:50,856
For me, right? As as a business owner,

735
00:37:50,856 --> 00:37:55,189
~ and the values that are important to me
may not be the same as you.

736
00:37:55,189 --> 00:37:56,680
Now there's gonna be some crossover,

737
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,828
there's gonna be some similarities because
you're a really driven person,

738
00:37:59,828 --> 00:38:02,214
you you want purpose, you wanna create
opportunity,

739
00:38:02,214 --> 00:38:04,916
you wanna make an impact, ~ you're very
successful.

740
00:38:04,916 --> 00:38:10,250
There are certain characteristics that are
going to be similar for everyone that's

741
00:38:10,250 --> 00:38:14,533
a high, you know, you know, high achiever
and somebody who's continuing to grow.

742
00:38:14,533 --> 00:38:15,834
But

743
00:38:16,162 --> 00:38:19,343
What works for you and your business may
be different than what works for

744
00:38:19,343 --> 00:38:23,433
me in my business. And so I think that and
and and that's the same is true

745
00:38:23,433 --> 00:38:26,315
of of of all business owners and all b all
organizations,

746
00:38:26,315 --> 00:38:29,056
sports teams, et cetera. But I think
having alignment,

747
00:38:29,056 --> 00:38:30,746
particularly at the leadership level,

748
00:38:30,746 --> 00:38:35,647
is absolutely essential. And that doesn't
mean that everybody has to align with me,

749
00:38:35,647 --> 00:38:38,228
though to a great extent they do,

750
00:38:38,228 --> 00:38:42,349
but but we have to align. And I think one
of the things that I've learned

751
00:38:42,650 --> 00:38:44,340
a huge lesson over time is that

752
00:38:44,788 --> 00:38:50,340
Not it like I have to also be willing to
make some changes in who I am,

753
00:38:50,340 --> 00:38:56,161
how I lead, how I function. ~ because the
the the likelihood of finding

754
00:38:56,458 --> 00:39:02,433
a full leadership team that is completely
in sync exactly with how

755
00:39:02,433 --> 00:39:06,604
I function and how I operate, ~ and how I
want them to operate,

756
00:39:06,604 --> 00:39:08,875
i it's it's it's gonna be really,

757
00:39:08,875 --> 00:39:11,716
really hard. ~ but at our core,

758
00:39:11,716 --> 00:39:12,986
there needs to be certain core.

759
00:39:13,484 --> 00:39:16,945
values where we are aligned, ~ but you
know,

760
00:39:16,945 --> 00:39:18,516
how we perform, how we function,

761
00:39:18,516 --> 00:39:21,457
how we show up. I think that there can be
some distinction.

762
00:39:21,457 --> 00:39:22,998
And so as long as you're aligned,

763
00:39:22,998 --> 00:39:27,627
I think at the core and and you're aligned
on what you're trying to achieve,

764
00:39:27,627 --> 00:39:30,311
I think anything is possible. ~ so yeah,

765
00:39:30,311 --> 00:39:33,172
that's my and I I think I think we're in a
really,

766
00:39:33,172 --> 00:39:37,564
really great spot right now. And I think
it's because that alignment exists

767
00:39:37,604 --> 00:39:39,625
in in what we're trying to achieve
together.

768
00:39:39,625 --> 00:39:41,946
~ and kind of, you know,

769
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:43,910
w we're aligned on the vision,

770
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:46,671
we're aligned on the mission, we're
aligned on the values.

771
00:39:46,671 --> 00:39:49,072
And it feels it just feels different.

772
00:39:49,072 --> 00:39:54,613
Like it what what happens is the friction
just kind of like disappears.

773
00:39:54,613 --> 00:39:56,494
And I think when it disappears,

774
00:39:56,494 --> 00:39:59,985
there's just a feeling of like order and
stability.

775
00:39:59,985 --> 00:40:02,085
~ and you sometimes don't realize it.

776
00:40:02,085 --> 00:40:05,636
But I think for other business owners who
have gone through ~ this kind

777
00:40:05,636 --> 00:40:08,107
of frustration, they'll understand and
appreciate what I mean when

778
00:40:08,107 --> 00:40:11,128
I say friction and they should understand
what I mean when I say

779
00:40:11,552 --> 00:40:13,625
alignment. So I think finding that
alignment,

780
00:40:13,625 --> 00:40:15,728
it doesn't matter if it's your your wife,

781
00:40:15,728 --> 00:40:17,410
your husband, your your partner,

782
00:40:17,410 --> 00:40:19,813
your business partner, your leaders,

783
00:40:19,813 --> 00:40:22,196
if you don't have a enough alignment,

784
00:40:22,196 --> 00:40:25,181
~ nothing's possible. But if you have it,

785
00:40:25,181 --> 00:40:26,181
everything's possible.

786
00:40:27,608 --> 00:40:29,839
To to officially wrap up, we recently,

787
00:40:29,839 --> 00:40:31,510
~ to give some context to this,

788
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:34,721
we recently bought a sprint, a
Mercedes-Benz Sprinter.

789
00:40:34,721 --> 00:40:37,482
And we took it on this retreat and we
drive around it.

790
00:40:37,482 --> 00:40:39,603
It's a it's nice and t but on the side,

791
00:40:39,603 --> 00:40:43,115
what I want the world and our marketplace
that we operate,

792
00:40:43,115 --> 00:40:45,646
my real estate company, what the what I
want them to know about us is I

793
00:40:45,646 --> 00:40:47,207
put on the side, I said it says,

794
00:40:47,207 --> 00:40:50,708
built for Main Street, not Wall Street.

795
00:40:50,708 --> 00:40:54,260
Built built for Main Street, not Wall
Street.

796
00:40:56,130 --> 00:40:58,675
Telling the world who we are and what I
want them to know about our business.

797
00:40:58,675 --> 00:41:02,272
Yeah. What do you want the world to know
about Bader Law?

798
00:41:05,638 --> 00:41:07,469
I think what I want them to know,

799
00:41:07,469 --> 00:41:12,314
you know, we I have not thought about that
specific question or you know what we'd

800
00:41:12,314 --> 00:41:18,659
put on our on our sprinter. ~ But w we we
have

801
00:41:18,659 --> 00:41:22,953
a a relatively simple tagline and it may
seem cliche,

802
00:41:22,953 --> 00:41:26,005
but it's it's not, and and and I think
it's again,

803
00:41:26,005 --> 00:41:30,739
it's easy to say, it's hard to to to to
fulfill.

804
00:41:30,739 --> 00:41:34,202
And it's really simple. You deserve the
best.

805
00:41:34,892 --> 00:41:40,055
Right. And we we genuinely believe that
our our team members deserve the best,

806
00:41:40,055 --> 00:41:42,996
the best experience, ~ the best
technology,

807
00:41:42,996 --> 00:41:47,859
the best resources. ~ and we we we also
believe that our clients deserve the best.

808
00:41:47,859 --> 00:41:52,872
And we we really everything we do is
designed to to make sure that our both

809
00:41:52,872 --> 00:41:58,776
our our employees and our clients and our
communities get the best because

810
00:41:58,776 --> 00:42:00,717
we genuinely believe they deserve it.

811
00:42:00,717 --> 00:42:02,478
~ and I think that it's

812
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,231
It's it again, it sounds like a cliche,

813
00:42:05,231 --> 00:42:08,161
but not all law firms feel that way.

814
00:42:08,161 --> 00:42:09,892
Not all lawyers feel that way,

815
00:42:09,892 --> 00:42:11,752
not all realtors feel that way.

816
00:42:11,752 --> 00:42:15,613
I think that I think that some people are
very transactional.

817
00:42:15,613 --> 00:42:18,704
there's a lack of humanity and a lack of
empathy.

818
00:42:18,704 --> 00:42:23,653
~ in our business we we genuinely believe
that that there needs to be

819
00:42:23,653 --> 00:42:29,557
a much greater level of of human
connection ~ and empathy ~ and care.

820
00:42:29,557 --> 00:42:32,788
And I think that that's that's what we
stand for and that's what we're bound.

821
00:42:34,068 --> 00:42:37,793
Awesome. All right, guys. Seth brought the
underpinning of his law firm,

822
00:42:37,793 --> 00:42:41,207
but what he didn't unlock is maybe if he
liked it enough we can go deeper.

823
00:42:41,207 --> 00:42:43,610
He didn't bring us the brilliant legal
mind.

824
00:42:43,610 --> 00:42:46,293
I can tell it's there. I can tell it's
deep.

825
00:42:46,293 --> 00:42:47,926
He's wanting to let it loose on us,

826
00:42:47,926 --> 00:42:49,638
but unfortunately it's a first

827
00:42:49,996 --> 00:42:51,397
No nobody nobody wants it to hear.

828
00:42:51,397 --> 00:42:57,032
There's a business podcast. Nobody wants
to talk about about legal issues and
stuff.

829
00:42:57,032 --> 00:42:59,444
But we're happy to do that if you wanna g
if you wanna go deep on that.

830
00:42:59,704 --> 00:43:01,485
May may maybe one day we do to say,

831
00:43:01,485 --> 00:43:04,597
Hey, give us give us the three pieces of
advice of not here,

832
00:43:04,597 --> 00:43:07,229
but maybe the future. Like what are the
three pieces of advice that you give

833
00:43:07,229 --> 00:43:09,767
to an entrepreneur, even though you're out
here,

834
00:43:09,767 --> 00:43:14,484
you know, representing consumers and
injury and but but you have this
perspective

835
00:43:14,484 --> 00:43:17,386
of from the legal standpoint, like tell us
what's on your mind,

836
00:43:17,386 --> 00:43:20,528
the things that concern you, the things
that you need to be preventive about

837
00:43:20,768 --> 00:43:23,020
as you build a business. That'd be a good
podcast.

838
00:43:24,184 --> 00:43:26,860
Well, I it's it sounds like you you're
extending the invitation.

839
00:43:26,860 --> 00:43:29,005
If you are, I'll I accept the invitation,

840
00:43:29,005 --> 00:43:30,038
I'll f I'll follow up soon.

841
00:43:30,592 --> 00:43:32,261
Awesome, man. Hey, thanks for coming on.

842
00:43:32,261 --> 00:43:33,387
I appreciate the time giving us.

843
00:43:33,814 --> 00:43:34,964
No, I appreciate you having me.

844
00:43:34,964 --> 00:43:35,964
Thank you.

845
00:43:35,470 --> 00:43:36,470
I mean hundred percent.