#217 - AI Marketing, SEO & AEO: How to Scale a Business in the Age of AI | Gilad Bechar

0:00 If someone starts their day and coming as a designer and coming and starting their day in within Photoshop, they are probably starting in the wrong tool. All right, you all. Hey, welcome back to another ~ awesome and interesting episode today. when you talk to somebody that's just brilliantly smart, you don't know if they're a scientist, if they're a physicist, but what happens now in 2026, they usually end up being in tech.

0:42 And so I'm pumped about the conversation today. Today's guest is Gilad Bashar. He's the founder and CEO of Moburst, a global digital growth company that has worked with brands like Google, Uber, Samsung, and Reddit. Galod built Moburst from a mobile marketing startup into a global company, but along the way learned firsthand that rapid growth can create its own problems and sometimes requires making difficult decisions to rebuild. So now with an eleven point eight million dollar investment, congrats, and a growing acquisition strategy, GLAD's entering a new phase of growth. So today we're going to talk about building, scaling, and what happens when growth gets ahead of you. So, Gulad, welcome to the Nessary Entrepreneur Man.

1:23 Thank you so much. Pleasure to be here. Yeah, man. So ~ let's just ~ get it right here off the rip. Like what happens when growth gets ahead of you? Let let's hear about your story and what growth looks like. And then sometimes if you outpace and outgrow yourself, what that looks like, what happens to the business? So I think so many entrepreneurs have gone through this, but a lot wave the white flag and call it a day and move on to something else. You haven't done that. So what's it what's been your experience? What's this thing look like when it just gets going too fast and maybe the infrastructure's not keeping up? Wow, ~ it's a great question. I think that like ~ a lot of different pieces are coming together in a place where you find product market fit and then things actually starting to go in the right direction, so to speak, but then on that right direction you need to start supporting so many additional clients, so many additional needs, so many additional a fast pacing ~ decisions that you may need to make today because just like the success came through, it can also go on the other direction if you are not servicing them well and there if they're not getting the right type of value or results that you kind of promised to those class customers when they came in. So ~ I think like it's a lot of different elements are how you're dealing with the employees on on those, you know, very stressful moments about, hey, you know what? We need now to onboard another six accounts that are massive that actually requires us to have like It's in the same size of the last three years of of of getting those new clients on on on on the pace and doing it now in a in a co in a order of let's say two months, that's very, very stressful. Like think about your workload that now you need to kind

2:55 of start doing double of what you've done before. Then how do you actually use technology in order to be able to enable you to do that, but still in the same level of quality? So it's it's never easy. I think that we're hiring like crazy. We're trying to get as many ~ of those positions filled out, but I know that that also takes time. It's not just bringing on brilliant people on board. It's also how you are recruiting them, how you're actually training them, how you're actually giving them the right support, how the management actually have the time to attend to them, to actually give them the the the time that they need in order to understand who we are, how we operate. Even if you are bringing someone from another company that is very similar to you, ~ that have ten years of experience. We do things in a different in a different way. And and and you know, each and every company ~ might find talent that is doing whether it's on the engineering side, whether it's on the ~ design, on the marketing, on whatever type of of a field, but you have a bit of a different type of of a flavor of DNA and a a bit of a different flavor of how you're actually ~ executing things, and all of those things takes time to absorb, to understand, and also how to function in that in that level.

4:00 I feel like ~ with you know ~ rapid growth, a lot of times there we there could be burnout, there could be ~ a lot of ~ frustrations for things that saying, hey, you know what? When it we've done it in this scale, that's okay that it's get ninety percent there and not one hundred percent there. But once you scale that to a very amo ~ big amount, like seventy new clients a year, you're saying, ~ okay, wait a minute, on the B2B side, with if those are very big clients that are coming on board, It's not like ~ okay, fake it till you make it on a small scale. Like it it's something that every single one of those clients could become a behemoth that that would actually make a big, big impact on your revenue stream, on the potential of of continuum scaling up, on so many other things, and and you want to get it right with each and every one of them. So things that are not fully buttoned up, we find ourselves saying, Hey, you know what? We actually need to go on more on the on the side of making more ~ stress testing not just on the QA side of of of deliverables and things of that nature, but how do we make sure that the value that we actually bring, like all the way to the to the KPI of what the client actually signed us for?

5:09 Like they they took us because of not that deliverable or that capability, but they want to get that impact. How do you measure that impact? And a lot of times it's like related to other teams of that client and and then we access and and lots of things that you're saying. We solve it in those six systems, but they're actually using a seventh system that we didn't plugged in just yet. Now how can we do that in the middle of three days and not three months of of of connecting more dots and connecting to more APIs and like so ~ a lot of stress, a lot of fun doing it and building it and seeing the the you know the the the hockey stick. That's beautiful thing to see. ~ But we made so many mistakes along the way and you know we keep on trying to patch Every single one of those holes and how can we learn extremely fast?

5:53 It's okay to fail, but fail fast. So we'll see what we need to change and what we need to pivot and what walks, what doesn't work, and being very transparent with the client saying, listen, guys, this is solved. I we know that that's solid. But in this part, it's not quite there yet. We are giving you the best engineers that we have today, the best team that we have to to solve it. But ~ we know what we're doing really well, and we know also what is still in the making. This is better. It's not it's it's not full production just yet. And we are very transparent on that from the get go with clients, so we are setting expectations with something we don't want to promise the world. We want to underpromise and over deliver on every single thing that we do. What do you is there something special about 2026 versus 2013 when you started the business? We'll talk about the transition and how it's a different business, but is there something so three ways.

6:42 Is there something special now that makes it better? Is it drastically different, the fundamentals of running a business, even with tech, or is it pretty much the fundamentals are the same? I think that the expectation in 2026 is that everything is easier. ~ and I think that that's something like when you know that it used to take you, you know, 10 months to build a new mobile app, for example, okay, or a feature in a specific system or what have you. and now you know that hey, I can go to Cloud, I can prompt it. How hard could it be? Okay, within a day or two, I have a demo. The demo looks beautiful. How easy how easy it is to just take it to production and l and use it?

7:24 ~ so I think that the expectation from both clients and and and even for me to my employees ~ is very different. Like it used to take, okay, two weeks now doing the research and then another three weeks of doing the planning and then another four weeks of starting with the version number one, like and and and going like that. And And you say, hey, you know what? If I'm now using cloud code or I'm using ~ you know so many systems that you have today, whether it's ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, Cloud, at the end of the day, you find the tools that are benefiting you to do to do that in the in the fastest pay pace. And and you expect things to do to be done in a very, very quick turnaround time. ~ and then a lot of times you're getting things that are have baked. ~ it sounds good, it looks good, but then now we want to start test stress testing it.

8:10 And no one actually built all of the framework around around it. A lot of things that look really good on the paper, and then you're saying, okay, let's start using it. And you start you want to start using it, but then when you plugged it over there, it makes strange errors or hallucinations or things that saying, you know what, like for these cases it's fantastic. For those cases, it it it doesn't cut the like You know, you're you're you're like a chef. You're tasting every single one of those dishes. Some of them taste good, some of them are too salty or too too and and you need to change the recipe and and and to see how how it will actually ~ come all the way. And I feel like because so many u people are using the shortcuts, ~ the expectation is okay, if I now need to know to create another video, ~ it used to be okay to take two months or three months to create a video.

8:55 It it was the expectation when you're walking with good people, designers, our directors, copywriters, all Yeah, there is a process. We need to write the the brief. We need to write the the the storyboard, we need to design that storyboard. Now we need to start doing animation, like it i every single one of those things and then narration and voiceover, what have you. But now, hey, I can prompt it within within Gemini. ~ Nana Banana knows how to do that, or or use ~ whatever other model that basically gives you the ability to do up to fifteen seconds, up to thirty seconds, and then just patch those pieces together. ~ So I feel like the expectation of everything is like we need it right here, right now, and the expectation is going to be done within a day or two. ~ so everything becomes so much more hectic because on one hand you know that it's possible, like on the technology allows you to do that, but will it allow you to do that in the standard, in the the quality that you want?

9:46 Not necessarily. And you need to harness it in from so many different ways of how to give it the context, how to give it. So I feel like the the the the business challenge of of today. It's like understanding what are the things that we want to do on a fast track and we have to do on a fast track. There is no other way. And what are the things that actually require more time? And that's okay to actually wait another, you know, few weeks ~ to actually get resolve it well. ~ and that's kind of the constant balance that is so different. You know, in 2013, you're saying that you're about to develop a new product, everyone will expect that it will take you six months to 12 months till that product is is is ready. And nowadays, in the pace of today. It can be done in a matter of a few weeks if you want to do a beautiful demo of it.

10:29 How deep it will be built? Not necessarily as deep as you want, but the demo looks beautiful. And then why the hell do the does does it need to take six months, twelve months? Why are they so slow? They're not using AI. They don't know why. And and it's exactly the opposite. Like we use it so intensely that we know exactly that if you are using just all of those shortcuts, it can save you a massive amount of walk. Don't get me wrong. But it doesn't get ~ everything right there and then those mistakes can cost you a fortune if you don't plug them in and if you don't kind of give it the the structure that it needs in order to do ~ the things that you want it to do. So ~ the expectations are very different in the business world today. So how do you approach pricing in the new environment?

11:11 So if we can do everything in let's say 20% of the time that in 2013, or even 10% of the time or 5% of the time, the value hasn't changed of the deliverable. So how are we pricing it? That's one of the hardest questions I think that every single business today is is is is thinking about because on one end, ~ the old pricing made sense for the world, right? In two thousand four twenty four, twenty twenty five, you sold those packages. They were actually agreed on and that was based on amount of hours that that team was supposed to work on that in order to deliver you that deliverable. so okay, I need to create your UPSO optimization report, what have you. Okay, so there is fifty hours for research, fifty hours for ~ whatever.

11:57 We know how many hours we are multiplying that by the number of ~ cost per hour that you're selling, and and here we go, you you have the pricing. ~ in in today's world, a lot of those things could be done, a lot of those pieces could be done with ~ a Claude skill, for example. And then, okay, that skill, it used to take me 30 hours to do the research, now it takes me 15 minutes, and then auditing whatever the output that I got, another three hours of changing the refining, what have you. ~ and that's just for the research phase. ~ but then the the the the question is what is the value that is being generated by that and also the know-how and the tools and a lot of the tools that you that you're using, you know, the tokens was not a thing three years ago.

12:40 ~ and tokens today can cost me more than all of my employees together just on the amount of prompts that I needed. So it could be taking 15 minutes to actually generate something that used to take 30 hours, which is very true on on specific cases. ~ but at the same time, I need to check it. I need to like double ~ stress test that specific deliverable to make sure that it's meeting the standard. Like as if it was my employee, he will give you exactly the same type of an asset. And also the the cost of developing the the the technology, the the wrapping it up and actually giving you the right type of outcome. I think that you know, in the long term, you will start selling outcomes and not deliverables. Like it used to be hours and then it moves to deliverables and now now it will move to outcomes.

13:24 But at the same time, it will not be for every single one of those occupations. Because if you're thinking about selling an outcome, like if I'm telling a client I'm coming now to ~ a massive client saying, Hey, I can give you 10% more downloads every month. Wow, that sounds like ~ if if they get 10 million downloads a month, like massive value, right? but what happens if you're getting in front of brand, for example? And that brand has brand guidelines, and then within that brand guidelines. They don't want you to change the title from this to that. And they don't allow you to change the screenshots in this way to this way, even though this is best practices, even though that this is something that we know that will actually work better. A lot of time you need to have this type of relationship with the client and send what will pass the the the brand guidelines and and and the product team and the the the the law, the the the law firm that is with you about messaging, what you can promise, what you cannot promise.

14:18 and we can say all of those things are best practices. If you allow me to do those changes, I do know that the changes will make a very strong impact on your performance, but it's not just up to me. ~ and the same thing goes when you're thinking about optimizing organic, okay? Getting you ranked better on ChatGPT, Gemini Perplexity, and Claude. Saying, okay, I know what the value looks like, but what happens if now they're getting a complaint by the Business Bureau? ~ and now because of that or getting 50 very unhappy clients that come to the to their Google account giving them one star rating. No matter how f how how good I'm fighting on improving things, the external forces that are running against me, so to speak, that basically now have a pial fiasco against them because are selling their data in an illegal thing and and and if I'm in charge and only getting paid by results, what do I do here, right? Like I I you can't quantify every single one of those things. So I feel like In a lot of those areas that ~ that on the marketing side are related to so many different pain pain points, ~ it's not as easy to buy to build this type of a new model, if you will. Yes, we can have a success based on specific things and saying, hey, this is to cover the the the salaries, so to speak, the and and then we will have a revenue share on those specific areas or things like nature. ~ but also if I'm giving now a client, let's say 10% ~ uplift, so it's another one million downloads every month.

15:42 ~ well, they want to pay me, you know, cat amount of premium for that. They used to just pay for the service and and okay, great. The value will come to me. So with each and every client, it really depends on how ~ how ~ deep we're ingrained in their in their specific ~ ecosystem, so to speak. Who is the level of seniority that I'm speaking with? Because a marketing manager or director can make a very different discussion than a CEO or or CMO of the company. Or the founder of that company is saying, hey, you what? We we grow together or we go bad together, but but it's a very different level of engagement. ~ if I'll be able to get the ability to do all of the changes that I need, sometimes they have really bad analytics and we can't even track everything the way that they wanted to determine what was the benchmark before us and what is the benchmark after us.

16:32 And they have a lot of mess on. On understanding attribution, what came from each source and things on that nature. So it's really case by case ~ specific nowadays. I think that there are things that are going to become much more commoditized. ~ and then you will need to lower the prices and you will need to just basically prove the value in much more of saying, if I manage to give you this, I'm getting that. ~ but the in other cases where you can control the entire funnel, how can I? Give them like a performance-based approach if this is something that it's not just related to me, it's related to hundreds of other things that are happening in the business as well. So there I think that it will need to kind of be like a more of a retainer based on a specific ~ deliverables, specific cadence, and then and then having like another upside, ~ lowering the retainer from what it used to be, but having like an upside and not having the entire model based on just performance.

17:28 So ~ it's very interesting. Like we have We have clients that are that are performance based on Amazon business, for example, that we have acquired in ~ in ~ July. We added another big chunk of of of revenue with ~ a company that basically based in in Bulgaria that now is part of the group. ~ and and and they basically manage Amazon for their clients and they take the benchmark of what you are currently doing with your Amazon, and everything above that benchmark, we are making percentage out of that. So in specific places where you take full ownership. I can change the title, I can change the images, I can change every single element I I I'm managing the campaign. I'm taking full ownership, no problem. But if I'm not taking full ownership, how can I be paid by performance if I don't make all of those decisions?

18:13 And I need to get each and every one of those things run by the brand manager and then having thirteen decision makers just give me the approval to change something in the App Store and saying, Okay, ~ a VP there didn't like that design, we can go on with that. What am I doing? I just wasted two and a half months of of developing all of that new concept and things in danger. What's with the fast pace and the evolution of tech? Where's your mind lie and rest on business planning now? We used to have these three year metrics, five year metrics, and companies are making investments and hedge funds are getting involved, and there's VC backed companies. In your world of entrepreneurship, what do these scaling plans even look like because stuff is changing so fast?

19:01 It's it's funny because we I had that session with my VP of AI. ~ and ~ and my VP AI came to me with like a plan for the next year. And with that plan of the first year, in the first slide, she said, Well, this is what I want to achieve in the coming year. ~ and we're building this type of a marketing operating system that will actually help you with each and every challenge. But ~ but even though that we are looking on a year ahead, I want to focus on this quarter, and within that quarter, I want to focus on those months because in Q4. As well as I think that I can plan today, with the pace of innovation, if AGI will come in, if those things will change, it will change everything. Like it you can't really plan that far ahead of you. ~ and it's all based on feedback loops of what are the things that you want to make sure that you're not just building, but you're building it in a way that will continue on optimizing it every single time that you're using that that ~ that tool, that capability.

19:54 So it will get back the feedback. And then, you know, every single time that you are writing something to ChatGPT, for example, you're getting an answer. It might be a good answer. It might be a bad answer. ChatGPT doesn't even know necessarily if it's a good or bad. But if you are getting for every single one of the outputs that you are getting, you have to have ~ like good, bad, am I using it, I'm not using it, and then taking it to the next stage within the tool, then the tool learns if the output is good enough or not. And if it's not good enough, how to improve? What are the things that are not quite there yet? So I feel like a lot of the business decisions are based more on like the shorter term, ~ which is very uncommon. ~ when you're thinking about, you businesses, a lot of times investment in technology, we need to invest three years to do this and this and that to get there.

20:34 ~ and I feel like everything is being like shortened. ~ and the focus is much more about the next quarter than it is for the coming year, because things that we thought that will not be feasible this year, we managed to solve. Like I launched 11 new products from the beginning of the year. And Eleven new products is massive. It's like a startup that just delivered 11 new babies, so to speak. And each of them is like its own baby. And each of them is being walked around on so many different elements and adding more features and changing this and testing different ~ stuff. ~ and that's outside of automations, that's outside of all of the things about like claude skills and and all of the things that you're doing when you're thinking about about about scaling ~ your workload. So I feel like on the the the way of the of the planning is much more ~ short term and not short term because you're not seeing the next ~ evolution, but things that you try to do ~ two quarters ago and you're saying, okay, ~ AI cannot solve video production today.

21:32 ~ it was it why it might be true six months ago if you're using those tools. If you're trying to do that today, the the the answer within a month can change drastically. ~ so even hypothesis that you tested and you're saying It didn't work well, it doesn't it doesn't mean anything. Like did you test it this this ~ this month? No? Okay, so test again. So the old world approach to SEO. What are we talking about now with the AI systems? I think that SEO is ~ almost the older game. I think that the vast majority of the efforts today, ~ yes, SEO has a base. That base is also true for AEO, so there are a lot of commonalities there.

22:13 But ~ everyone are chasing the AEO side, which means how am I getting ranked on ChatGPT, Gemini Complexity and Cloud, even though that Google is still the main source of my traffic? Understand that the future sources of my traffic and the fastest growing things on the organic side will be from those engines. ~ and and basically when I'm thinking about that. On Google, you could do things that are very easy. So you can be ranked number one for Google on a specific query. And on ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, Claude, Glock, whatever, whatever type of copilot, whatever type of system that you're checking it, Sure, but you were. you might not even be in the top 10. Like you might not even exist on that query. So I feel like the context is super important. And again, there are lots of technical things, right? Like on the website, frequently asked questions, schema, there are lots of things that you need to change.

22:59 And ha having like a robot that comes to the website to know how to read that page in the simplest way. ~ but that's like within the website, there are lots of best practices, lots of things that are that are important. The the the content, how you're writing the content, how that content is actually being ~ translated by those LLMs and things like that nature. But it's much more about ~ in today's world and it's a big change from the SEO world. On the SEO world, a lot of times you're saying, Okay, it's content on one end, it's the structure of the site, and it's links from wherever in the web. ~ in the LLM world, those links, you don't even need the link ~ per se, which means it's enough that Forbes will will mention me on an article about mobile marketing best practices. Even if I don't have a link, it we just had the quote. Gilad from Ober said this and this and that.

23:46 That by itself will get me 32 new answers within ChatGPT within a matter of of three or four days. Like it's that impactful if you're getting on on on on you know big publications, very reputable ~ publications. So then It's much more about how you are answering things on Reddit and your thought leadership on LinkedIn and things that are helping you or or prohibiting you from getting things on Wikipedia and and and a lot of things about the PR and podcasts, by the way. Podcast is another great way for you to actually get those ~ additional ~ you know, long-term content that is being transcribed and and and read by those LLMs to understand context. So ~ you're seeing that there are so many different trust factors, how you're getting your videos on on YouTube, for example, the metadata that is injected within YouTube, your Google Maps account, your ~ listings on on on all of the libraries that you are competing against, if it's G2, for example, for tech, or if it's like a clutch, if it's agencies, or you have all of those ~ big ~ libraries of of ~ you know, when you're trying to compare this ~ company company to that company and you have those listing sites.

24:51 so they also make a ~ another impact when you're thinking about how am I being reviewed by all of those trust signals. And think about each and every one of those trust signals give you another three points or five points of relevancy or irrelevancy for that specific question. ~ so basically what you want to do is reverse engineer those algorithms, seeing will you win, seeing will you lose, seeing who wins, what made them win, and then reverse engineer that, okay. So they are appearing on those places, they're appearing there really ~ strongly. I'm not there. How do I get on there? What do I do in order to actually be able to be shown as reputable as they are based on those LLMs? And then how I start to change every single one of those ~ places, like your Instagram posts matter, your LinkedIn posts matter, the ~ ready discussions, generic generic questions about who is the best to do this and this and that.

25:42 And you see a thread with 70 comments. That is being cited by by those LLMs. So a lot of times even just coming in and and and commenting on something or providing additional context can change the the narrative in a very big way. But you really need to live on those on those engines. And by the way, the answer that I'm getting, if I'm ~ an entrepreneur, for example, or if I'm an enterprise company, I will get different answers by Claude. I I will get like if if I'm asking now, if I'm an enterprise, saying who is the best mobile marketing agency? Mobus will come number one. If I'm in a startup that will come in and will ask that, Mobile will come as number two or three. And then if you're asking why, you're saying, MOBOS seems like more expensive than other options, and those actually are more ~ like a quick and dirty type of a thing.

26:28 For a startup, it might actually be f ~ better on the on those cases. ~ so all of those LNMs are are trying to fit you with the answer of what it is that you're trying to do. Now it depends even on what type of a startup. If it's a startup round A, B, and C. They will recommend MOBOS number one. If it's a seed round, which means they didn't raise enough, mobile might be an overkill for you at this stage. And and that's not what I think. I have a unit that actually ~ specialized also in the early stage, but it it doesn't matter. Like I couldn't convince Claude and ChatGPT to give me the same level of of of ranking on on the the the ~ the shorter amount of of time for for companies that are just in the beginning of their path. ~ and it was because of our reputation that was built in the last 13 years that goes more towards the the the premium type of ~ model.

27:15 So I think that like ~ SEO and AEO are kind of blending together and the best practices are changing in a very, very massive way. You used to just say if I'm getting enough content and I get the right links, I'll be okay. And in today's world, you you can have you can do those things and still fail miserably on those LLMs. And the beautiful thing is that once you are getting augmented by something like ChatGPT or Gemini that recommends you or Claude, the level of trust that the client is coming to you is like, I'm almost sold already. Like I know that you're the right fit for me. ~ so the level of trust that you have there is phenomenal. So one lead like that ~ every day, additional lead like that for a day, can make a massive, massive contribution for your bottom line.

27:57 ~ and it's not just the fighting over the, yeah, I got 10,000 sessions last week and it Who cares? Like three s relevant sessions can actually change the entire ~ business on on the B2B side. On the B2C side, it's a bit different. Obviously, with the business to consumers you're talking to, how can I get millions of customers and not, you know, two or five or or fifty that are massive. We're talking about all this in business and the the intelligence you have from taking Moburst from a mobile app marketing company to now a full blown tech marketing on every platform strategy. Thinking about that in this pr this process and entrepreneurial journey for you, do you see entrepreneurism?

28:43 Haven't used that word much, do you see that similar as medicine? Similar as the legal field. There's specialties in medicine. There's specialties in the legal field. Do you see being an entrepreneur? Is there special tactics that there should be a degree, like a legal degree, like a medical degree? And then after you decide you're going to be an entrepreneur and have comprehension of it, then you decide how you're going to use that and what business you're going to start. Do you see it or process it that way? I think this is a very interesting way of of looking on on the world. ~ I think that what what we've done done was actually I knew that I can't be everything for anyone.

29:28 Like I I I know that from the get-go. We started as a super, super niche within a niche, right? Like you have digital you have marketing, and then you have digital marketing, and then you have up marketing within up marketing. That was the place that we knew that we're that we are playing in. That's how we started. ~ and we knew that on that niche I really could prove that I know how to do that better than anyone else in the market. I I I had like the actual results and show you, hey, you have been working with those massive agencies, they are not as specialists on the App Store algorithm, on the Google Play Store algorithm, they don't know all of the features. Like there is a r an area of of specialty. ~ the way that we grew was actually about buying additional agencies.

30:09 I didn't if I'm now believe, hey, you know what, from now on I'm I'm doing Amazon Amazon as well. But if I'm not world expert in Amazon, it will take me time to learn and adjust and understand how to rank a product in a better way, how to do the the the marketing there on so many different niches. ~ and the volume play and how it impacts your category ranking, like there's so many specialties of of like expertise that you need in order to just understand how the system works to really be able to s help you squeeze the lemon, to really help you to do the best ~ of of what what you can. And and and basically Mobus bought the shortcut. Like we've Bought six different agencies and and and connected them together. If I wouldn't buy the PR arm, I I always used to say to my clients, till 2024, guys, we do everything on the digital side besides PR because because being very, very truthful, I know how to control the algorithm and apps on Google Play.

31:03 So I know how that ecosystem works. I know how to do that media, I know how to create new creative assets and things like nature. But PR is like pitching journalists, they might choose you, they might not choose you, they might want to cover you or not. What can you do about it? I the I I I don't know how to how to operate it in the same way of not guaranteeing results, but giving you very high likelihood of of getting you to the results. So before I bought that agency that was doing it for another 13 years, that have 30 experts that that's what they do. That's their bread and butter. They have been through every single situation that's related to PR. They have been through a crisis management with publicly traded companies, non-publically ~ all of the the the the headache that you need. So They know how to do that. And I just blended them in as another division of my company. And before I had that, I didn't sell one hour of those services because I was not world expert.

31:55 I don't want to to to to get a client and saying, I think that I can help you. I want to know that I can help you. ~ so I feel like in each and every domain, you do need that level of expertise, that stamp of approval, so to speak. And and without having that stamp of approval. it's not like generalists, you have so many generalists. ~ a lot of times the generalists don't even know what to ask. Yeah, you have ChetGPT, you have Gemini, you have Claude. I can ask them, but I don't even know which question to ask them to get the output that I need. I don't know what I don't know, which is one of the most dangerous places ~ to make decisions. Say, yeah, that sounds like a great idea, but I didn't know that Apple would reject me. I didn't know that that is not something that it makes sense on the paper a lot of times, but then when you try to stress us it on the on the environment.

32:40 Well, it doesn't really work that way. ~ and you get never got rejected before that from the App Store or Google Play Store. And you never get your your Amazon account banned. And then how do you actually release that? Like so many situations that happen once you don't know what you don't know. And and you really do need those experts. So I feel like even when we grew, theoretically, I wanted to grow to 10 more areas that right now we're not servicing our clients, even though that they're asking us to do those things. And I'm telling them, guys, right now. I'm not the best fit for that. Like right now, if you want pure branding, you know what? I'm I'm I'm not the best in the business for that. If you want TV ads, I I'm not the the the perfect shop for you for those things just yet. I hope that to buy, you know, a a a company that does that and then hey, here you go. Now I have one stop shop for all of those things.

33:24 But the reality is that as long as I don't have that, I feel like ~ you want to make sure that you're keeping your reputation intact. You want to make sure that you're whatever you do, you do phenomenally well. ~ in order to be able to build yourself the the the the brand that that you want to become. ~ so a lot of times we said no to business, even though it was we have the ingredients to do those things, but we never really stress test it and we don't want to make this type of an experiment on a client and these side size. And and and and we said a lot of time no to business, even though that the revenue could be very, very meaningful. What's been your approach to acquisition since you've grown through acquisition? How do you evaluate and make decisions on I'm gonna buy I know you said, hey, if we don't have a PR arm, maybe we go and do that. But that's just a thought.

34:13 Then what do you do when you're evaluating companies or entities for acquisition? What happens? Is it simple and quick in your mind? You know, because Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, what they always said, you never know if it's fully true. He said he would buy companies on one sheet of paper. I ~ I wish I had th those skills. I I don't think that I'm quite there yet. ~ we do a massive amount of due diligence in order to really make sure this is the right fit or not. ~ and by the way, not every single acquisition will be successful. ~ that that's just a reality. ~ but from what we've seen that was working really well for us was A seeing the culture and the DNA of the founders and seeing that they actually want to stay and if they want to stay involved. ~ because If I'm br bringing on another PR division, for example, and I know that I I'm not world expert in PR.

35:02 I know that for a fact. I'm buying a PR arm with a management team of four VPs, for example, that knows how to do that really well. I want to incentivize that team to stay with us. I want to incentivize this team to help building the the the the the additional layer of management after they will want to move to another role or things like nature. ~ so I need to make sure that they have the right structure. I need to make sure that they have the right clients, I need to make sure that they have You know, client ~ concentration is another big ~ challenge in an agency. You might have ~ six million dollars of revenues, but out of that four million comes from one client, like this massive client, and the rest are tiny. And then if that client fails, look at that. You just lost you know 75% of your revenues or what have you.

35:44 So ~ all of those things are things that you're testing and and and and checking as part of the due diligence. Beyond that, you need to make sure that you're gonna be f people that are gonna be have fun to work with because Let's face it, it's a lot of long hours. It's a lot of of of time that you're going to be spending together and you don't want to be there with someone that you know you keep on clashing with or things on that nature. ~ beyond that, you have a lot of things that you're checking on the way that they're walking. So just for example, if they're not using any AI, is it a good or a bad thing? ~ on one end, you say, Hey, I'm implementing now my VP AI with here with here are six AI ~ engineers and the twenty AI ~ experts that we have in the company that help them to build those processes.

36:24 And I can optimize the hell out of it because hey, look at that. It's not optimized just yet. On one end, it's a great opportunity. On the other hand, if you're adding 30 people in the company, that none of them touched AI ever, how easy will it be to actually get them to start testing those? Why didn't they test that? Why they ~ if they're not ~ I'm not expecting them to be AI native, but if they are not even AI, you know, ~ they they want to test it out. They they don't want they they're against the the the the technologies, for example, they're saying that this is something that makes content feel like it's against their beliefs and things of that nature, then it probably will not be a great fit. I I don't want to replace fifty percent of your employees in order to do the acquisition successfully. I want to make sure that we are building something ~ right with most of the team that will continue with us for the long run and and help us to build the additional scale.

37:09 ~ so there are so many things that you need to kind of see their beliefs, their the their culture, their DNA, obviously all of the financials and things of that nature that need to make sense. And then building a deal structure that will incentivize them to optimize for the same elements. It could be, hey, right now your revenue per employee is thirteen thousand dollars. We need to get it to twenty thousand, which is where the benchmarking is, or twenty five thousand or thirty thousand, whatever that that number might be. ~ how do we get there? What are the things that do you believe that it's feasible? ~ like I I don't expect now every single employee to do five times more of their of of what they they currently do, but it means that we might need to change the way that they produce those assets because Otherwise we won't be able to scale it.

37:50 So a lot of those things are it's kind of a a a long dance, if you will. Like the to get to LOI letter of intent and signing that, okay, that's within a month or so. We can do that sometimes even even within two weeks. But then we have another three or four months of due diligence of actually understanding the business, understanding the clients, understanding the relationships, seeing how the management actually performs, seeing how and then seeing, okay, this is a good fit, or hey, you know what? It I We have too many red flags that this will not be flying with us. and and we could complete probably around eleven deals till till now on things that we've started due diligence and saw during the due diligence. Something there will not click with the things that we are doing and or the things that we believe that should be done.

38:33 And if they're so against those changes, we don't want to change something in the next day of the acquisition. Usually it's like a process of a year. Like it's not something that but if they're not even open to the to the to the idea and they just want to do exactly what they have done till now, I won't be able to bring them in any value. I'm not buying it just as a financial investor. I'm buying it because I believe that I can build something much bigger with that. And if they are not willing to do some of those transitions, it it it will not make any sense for me to try to invest into this type of a thing. So there are lots of things that you're testing and and and and and checking while you're doing an MA. And once you're doing a ~ once you have done a wrong MA, It's very, very painful. And I'm not just talking about the finance side. Okay, I invested in something.

39:14 A lot of times just to connect the team, to connect the management with your management, to connect the departments, the finance, the HR, the marketing, the sales, that so many people that now need to start w learning how to work together. and if it's if it works well, you feel it. If it works really off, it you feel that as well. So you don't want to make mistakes in here. you mentioned incentives so people maintain their employment after acquisition. What have you found now? Because everything's changed, what do you found now is a good approach to incentivizing folks when acquisitions are happening? What's that look like? Is it stock options? Is it profit share? Is it bonuses based upon the time frame you stay on?

39:57 What have you found that works best right now? So I think that it's a mix of everything you just should you just mentioned. Like for a new unit that is kind of joining forces with us, we usually have ~ you know a cash incentive initially to buy to buy the company. On top of that, we are giving them shares so they will care about the success of all of us together, not just ~ not just your unit or our unit. Beyond that, you are giving another ~ percent of a profit share from the business unit itself because you want to make sure they're also staying as profitable as they can. ~ and and the fact that they are profitable, you know, if now you can invest more time on the integration with a company or just focusing on your own thing. So you have both stocks and the incentive to keep that ~ profitability as as well as you can. So we're giving it basically with with ~ four different types of of of of of a deal structure that it happens for every single one of those deals.

40:49 And and it's really important for me to give every single one of those deals, every single one of those four elements are really important. To have a higher success rate. It doesn't promise the success rate, but it's a higher success rate because then the incentives are usually aligned. Like we all see the same things, the same ~ you know, values that we are optimizing toward. We want to grow, that's great, but we don't want to grow ~ not profitably enough, right? And you want to grow ~ and your headcount, but you don't want to grow it faster than the revenue trucks. and and like a lot of things that that needs to be aligned, so they weren't gonna have. the idea the the the the notion of optimizing toward one element and the come the main entity is optimizing toward another element and then you have crashes saying, Well, I think we should go right and they will say we need to go left.

41:37 We all need to believe that if we need to go right, let's go right. If we need to go left, go left. But but let's make those decisions based on the same shared values and KPIs, basically. Do you have one big goal? Is there a North Star that that's what we're working towards? And and if you do, are you is that something you're transparent about? Are you vocal about that? I'm very, very transparent about that. we're trying to build something that's called like the GOS, the growth operating system. Now that's a big vision, like saying hey, for every single company that will come come along our way, we will ~ know what is your KPI. Your KPI is getting more downloads, more leads, more registrations, more subscribers, more whatever.

42:18 And the fact that I have now thirty different services as a company, and on top of that, I have eleven products, I have forty one business offerings, if you will. It's a massive amount. Knowing what to fit to each one and how to actually create all of that in in the future, maybe it's gonna be fully automated. I don't think that it will come all the way to fully automated, it might be ninety percent automated or eighty percent automated. ~ but getting into a stage where we are servicing them one by one, creating the creatives, coming with a copywriter, designers, our director, and then coming up with the messaging and then taking it to the media department. The media department needs to take it for Facebook ads, for Google ads, for whatever, and then implementing it in the campaign, then seeing what works. All of those ~ processes ~ used to be super manual, like purely manual. That that that was the agency was doing.

43:03 If you want to turn it into a tech company, each and every one of those processes need to be as automate as automating them as much as you can. ~ now you need human in the loop. You need to make sure that you're inspecting every single one of those places that where it can go wrong, right? ~ but if if the vision is actually trying to build this type of a geo as like the growth operating system. Of alerts and systems that are connected to one another. And then once they here you go, that we created the the ~ the creative, ~ the client approved it, play, poof, it's going into the campaign, seeing from the campaign what works, getting from their feedback back. This is working, this is not working, create nuances and then we're building it back to the campaign. Now change the landing page. This messaging works better than this one.

43:43 Change the messaging within the design in in the screenshots in the app store or in the landing page over there, like making this entire connected system. To help optimize all of those things for you. For every segment of a user, it's a big vision. Like it's so many moving pieces. And it's the same for with journalists on the PR. It's the same with podcasts getting you the world best podcast. How to actually get and pitch you as as a founder to the world best podcast, for example, or how to do that on Amazon, where you have so many pieces that you can change. Every single ~ page, you have eight images and you have the text and you have the description and you have the you have so many assets to to play with. and the the the pricing and giving a discount and not giving a discount and doing all of those things programmatically, theoretically, machine can probably make better decisions than us as long as it's structured in a specific harness, like as long as it knows the context, what it can do, what it cannot do, and giving it the rules. So my goal is to build this type of a growth operating system. Every single portal we manage to build a lot more features and a lot more apps into that growth operating system.

44:44 ~ But it's not perfect and it's not it's not fully automated just yet. It's it's it's ~ to be very honest. I have now so many silos. This silo works amazing. And this silo works amazing. Connecting those two silos together and getting their automatic feedback loop, it's a big, big, big lift to actually get that to work efficiently. ~ where you can change your messaging and the messaging will change the people that you are trying to reach. And then how to actually reach them. Okay, Facebook, no, now Google ads. No, take it to LinkedIn ads. Like you have so many. If then, if then, if then the decision trees that you need to build on across each and every one of those services. So I think that I'm trying to build something that is very, very big on the on the the notion of it.

45:25 ~ employees could also be alarm saying, hey, he is planning to have less people on board. So why would I give him everything I need to know and train a system to do that? And then what will be my role? And a lot of people in the company actually saw that from a content manager that was managing the content. She turned into an AI director and now she's managing much more AI processes within those systems and tagging and actually creating new products within the system because she was good, because she was smart, because we wanted to continue working with her. ~ but people's ~ roles are changing and responsibilities are changing. So I feel like we are trying to build this type of a big ecosystem. There are a lot of risk, so to speak, with the employees. Hey, I'm I'm telling him everything I know.

46:07 He will teach it to ~ this type of a brain that will do that for me, and then then what is my role in the in in in the company or in the world, ~ so to speak. So there are a lot of different ~ challenges with that, but I'm very transparent about where we are going. I'm very transparent about the fact that I know that that a lot of things need to be ~ QA'd by the world experts. Like I needed an amazing copywriter to see if the text that was written was world class. If it's not, reshuffle it. I need a designer to look on the design saying, I would love on if if if it was my creation, I would sign on it. If it's not, redo that. Like the walking on that. And so it's kind of changing the perspective of every single one of the employees in the company of how we are walking, how we're actually producing assets.

46:52 And it's not just about saving time, it's about the fact that once it's connected automatically one system to another, the feedback loop could be running in the night. The feedback loop could actually run through like in a pace that that no human can do. And then the same designer that used to do five assets per day now can actually do ~ review fifty assets or five hundred assets and and know how to fix them in a matter of of of minutes instead of instead of ~ hours. So it changes every single hole in the company. ~ and I feel like ~ this change is not easy for every single one of the employees, but we are very transparent about what we are trying to build and the notion there and what we feel like can become a very big solution.

47:33 If we will be able to build it, the company will be massive. And they're all aware of it and they all have something to earn if it will become massive. So I think that the the we are trying to do something that has a very big vision. ~ it's not an easy vision. I think that the more pieces that you're connecting into this puzzle, every single one of those acquisitions add you another five additional occupations, so to speak, that now you need to rebuild and how it's actually connecting to other systems. So it's not easy. but I feel like ~ we're all feeling like we are building something big together. So if you solve Your biggest problem.

48:14 What does it fix? So something in your mind, the biggest problem that you're working on right now. ~ I would say that it's the past habits. ~ I think that that's the the hardest part. Like there are teams that are super innovative and they're super quick to change and adapting and and and and and you have other teams that's saying, but that's how we how we used to do that. Can we do that? I I had one of my VPs asking me ~ yesterday, she saw a new tool that allows us to save massive amount of time on something. And she said, like when I saw that, I I I started asking myself, can I even use something like that? Is i is it okay to use something like that? And and the answer was absolutely like that's exactly the things that we are trying to see how we are giving the clients the best results the fastest way.

49:00 If we have shortcuts, bring them on. Like we want to do that as long as it's legal, as long as we don't have problems with rights or things on that nature, IP and things on that nature. But ~ a lot of times the mindset of if if someone starts their day and coming as a designer and coming and starting their day within Photoshop, they are probably starting in the wrong tool. I need them to start envisioning their their day to start with Kling or with never mind if it's a nano banana three point one or if it's like I need them to to to start with Weavy or or whatever type of creative tools that allow you to build like an AI ecosystem that when you can prompt something and it does that for you and create you six versions or sixty versions as long as the tokens allow you, they just produce a massive amount of output in the same amount of time that you would produce one asset, ~ you can now produce tens of those or hundreds of those.

49:51 And they will be consistent with the brand guidelines and all of the, you know, you're giving it the right harness, so it will it will follow your logic. ~ and I think that changing the mentality of how we always done that, ~ for people that has 15 years of experience, they feel like that's that's what I have to give you. Like that's that's the value that I'm bringing. That's why you hired me. And the answer is that that's why I hired you, because you have the eye to see what's good, what's not. The the the ability to judge if this is the right output or not. But it doesn't mean that you need to produce The things in the same way. Just like the most of the people that are coding every single day, most of the code is being drafted by by ~ codex or by ~ a cloud or by you know whatever type of a system that you prefer.

50:33 And it's okay. It's not it doesn't mean that you're cheating. That that's the new way of producing things much faster. Now you need to know how to inspect it, how to judge it, how to but every single one of those occupations are changing. There are people that are really resistant to that and saying, No, I tested it once, it sucks, yeah, you can't use it. And there are people that are embracing it. And the ones that are embracing it, ~ like I feel like that's what I'm trying to get for the entire organization to embrace it, and it's not this easy. Hmm. So when something breaks, Golad does what? Asking to investigate what was not the mistake, but what led us to the cause of that mistake. It's okay to make a mistake as long as you learn from it. And I'm telling that for every single employee, whether it's a manager level all the way to a VP or partner.

51:18 If you didn't learn from the mistake and then the re mistake repeats, that's where I'm I'm getting upset because I feel like It's okay to make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes can cost me a client. Okay. Mistakes could be very painful. And and client could be worth seven figures. Like it's not something that that it's like easy to lose. ~ but as long as we learn from it, I'm okay with that. And I'm okay with that even if it cost me a lot of that mistake. But if you didn't learn from the mistake, that's where I feel like ~ like you you won't gonna meet the same type of nice personality, so to speak, to to to talk to you about that. ~ because that's that's the most important thing when you're Walking on a ha on a on a large scale. you need to test things. Without testing things, you won't fail. Like obviously.

52:00 But but then it means that you're not really pushing the the the boundaries. You're not helping the company to grow. But if you have done something and it failed, learn from it and share the knowledge of you. Like one of the the the the hardest thing for an employee to this is saying, well, it's not just like I I I done here something that was painful for the company. I don't want to admit the fact that I've done something that was harmful for the company, but that's the only way that the entire team will not repeat the same mistake. So if you are not sharing that incident ~ and and what we've learned out of it, as long as you're sharing what no matter what was the outcome, probably no one will get fired if they if you've done a mistake, even if it cost me the biggest client of mine. ~ but if they hide the fact that they've done that mistake and now it's repeated for the second or third time, then they will probably not stay with us.

52:45 How we know that we learn from the mistake? How can we embed that into our organizations without it happening again? Like do we have to wait for it to happen again to know that we learn from it? I think that that that once you've done something and you saw that it was getting you to a really bad outcome, ~ the biggest question is what led you to that decision? Okay. You created a PR pitch for a client and then you shared it with the journalists and you shared version two and not version three. Version three was approved, version two was not approved. How do you prohibit from that happening ever again? Then okay, there is a problem with the file system. There is a problem with ~ the the fact that that that previous file is not deleted or archived or what have you.

53:27 There is a problem of ~ of you not using the the most up to date. So how can we create actually create a QA bot before you sending something to the client to make sure that this is the most l up to date version of of of what have you. So if we made a mistake, no one loves making mistakes, it could be very painful. But then the question is what are the actions that we all take as a team, as a collaborative team, to make sure that those things will will not happen again. So if you have a good mitigation plan later on, ~ so you want you you will probably repeat the same mistake again. So if you are showing, hey, this is what happened, this is what led us to that mistake. Sometimes it's error on judgment, sometimes it's a lack of of looking on something, sometimes it's it's it's a glitch, it's it's a mistake. ~ but if you solve why that mistake happened, why the mistake allowed you to make the wrong decision, then you can actually change the the not just the outcome for the next time, but the the process that led you to that outcome.

54:25 What do you want to back to acquisitions real quick and then what I want you to share with us as time wraps up, man flies, right? When a couple guys are having fun. But ~ what have you found that you can acquire that you haven't been able to build? the expertise. I feel like ~ I can always bring an expert with 10 years of experience if I was doing it for another competing company and then opening our own department. ~ but I feel like the the the notion of a team that knows how to work together ~ effectively. And the the clientele that also coming with that that gives you the ability to say, ~ in this case, I have here case studies.

55:06 I have here references of of of something. If I'm building something from scratch, I don't have any references. I don't have any case studies. I don't have any I I'm starting from scratch. I'm starting from the fact that that brilliant guy that I just hired will help us to build it from the ground up. But I'm also gonna do every single mistake in the book because I don't have the the cookbook. I don't know the processes. ~ you want to do influencer marketing, for example. Okay. How do I start to find who is the best influencers for each and every one of those niches that that I want to do? Should I go with the smaller ones, with the bigger ones, with the really massive ones? Like you have so many decisions. And then, okay, template for agreement with that influencer. What do we expect from them? The SLAs, the timeline. Like that, what is the timeline with the client?

55:48 Like there so many things that you can establish if you already have a system that was built, and then hopefully we can optimize a bit of it. But if you don't have that system, building that ecosystem ~ could cost you probably, you know, another two years or three years of going through different things that and and and hitting walls and then change and correct and things of that nature. So I feel like ~ when you're doing an acquisition, you're buying the talent, you're also buying their processes, you're buying their their ~ key studies, you're buying their active clients that are coming in and basically can serve as as as referrals. ~ and and all of those things is much more than just, you know. Getting another two folks and saying, Yeah, let's figure it out. What do you want us to know about Moburst and and not just people listening, but your ideal future customer, your current customer, your future customer, the marketing, the branding. What is it important that the world and everybody that you want to know about you?

56:41 What's it important that we know? ~ Specifically about Moburst? Yeah. So I think that like we are really, really passionate about solving, and I think that every single marketing challenge can be solved. I really truly believe in that. If you are if you are bold with your actions and you have data in in in systems that can actually start reverse engineering things and understand trends, ~ every single marketing challenge can be solved. Now the the the question is how do you approach it? How do you find product market fit? How do you actually get through the the the noise, you can do thousands of different activities. ~ someone can peach you about, hey, solve it with LinkedIn campaign. No, do your activity on Reddit.

57:22 No, go on LinkedIn ~ and and and do thought leadership. No, do go with Vi Alex. Every single time that you have a a very limited budget and you're ~ you know in in your first steps, ~ it's much harder to make that decision. Okay, how much should I spend? How can I actually measure the results? How do I actually get it through the right ~ to the to the to the right Audience with the right message to get me the result that I want I'm looking to get. ~ so I feel like that's one of the things that Mobis is really, really good at. On I I we will not sell you the fluff. We will not, yeah, I can always show, yeah, we built this ~ social presence on TikTok. We got 250,000 followers on that specific campaign. And and it's true, I I can show you that. But do you have now two million dollars to spend on that specific niche where you want to get all of your users to download your product?

58:09 Or to subscribe on your website. And then the fact that they are following you on TikTok, besides getting you a great ego, ~ with that, hey, look on how many followers I have. ~ they're not subscribed to your service, they're not really activating activating in you in your platform. Why did you spend so much on that platform rather than actually getting them to the thing that will help you? So we're not selling that that type of fluff. A lot of times a client will come to me and say, I want to buy an influencer marketing. I heard from a friend of mine that was working really well. And we saw that they want to go after influencers in a hyperlocal place, which means in New York City, think about the dating app. ~ and and they they want to go with influencer marketing. I'm saying like influencers, most of the influencers have followers from 50 different states. If they have followers from 50 different states, and I'm starting to activate the influencers for you, you'll get two downloads from Alabama and three downloads from Vegas and seven downloads from from Florida.

58:59 Even if they're trying to match in the app, no one will be in in close enough proximity. To enable you to get to to the value. Hey, this is the dating service, right? You wanted to actually date in real life. ~ and then all of them will come back to the apps or give you one star rating saying, it sucks, nothing works, I don't have any any good matches around me, or things of that nature. So a lot of times you hear about something that sounds really cool or really good for specific business, trying to translate it to your business. A lot of times I'm we are telling clients, I understand that you want it, I have that service to offer you. This is the wrong service for you. And it's a very hard discussion. We're saying to a client, hey, you know what? The product that you are coming to us with right now, it's not power marketable. Something on the whole bonding on boarding process does not make any sense. And I don't want you to change that that product and now doing that for me. If you weren't gonna do that for you, it will not work. You're burning the market, whatever the marketing budget is, it's gonna be burned. First start with that, even though that you don't want to do that.

59:55 You just think that you're finished with the the development, but it's not Already yet. So a lot of times telling ~ a client, Hey, you know, your baby's ugly is nothing that anyone wants to hear. Or saying to a client, Hey, you heard about this strategy. This strategy is great, but not for your business. It's not what they want they they came to hear a different thing, right? They came to hear why you're best in doing that. ~ so a lot of that educational piece, we are doing it because I don't want to have an unhappy client three months later saying, We've done what you wanted. It doesn't work, but we've done exactly what you wanted. And we hear the KPIs that we got. But none of those users actually continue coming to your product because it's was the wrong methodology. So a lot of that is like much more about the educational and the consultative side of is that really the right solution for you? I will build you the the the growth plan ~ for free.

1:00:43 I'm not charging anything for that. I will tell you exactly what I would do if I were in your shoes. I'm putting the chief marketing officer hat on your behalf and I will tell you what to do. Now, if you want to operate it that with me, obviously it will be a great relationship. If you want to take it in house and just do it in house, so be it. But I'm giving you the blueprint of what I think it will be best for you after working with more than one thousand brands in the last thirteen years and seeing what works, what doesn't work, what what scales and what doesn't scale. ~ and I will give you my very honest feedback. Now you choose if if if we are the right fit for you or not, but that's how a big part of our DNA to make sure that we are not just getting clients, but we are getting clients that will be able to scale with us for the next six or seven years. All right, you all, that hour flew by.

1:01:24 So, Gulad, the founder of Moburst, hey, ~ as things evolve here in the marketing space, the agency space and growth, because in six months, this conversation might not even be relevant. It might be a new one, right? And so, ~ maybe as this evolves, you're on the quick short list. Say, let's get Gulad back on and talk about the evolution of this. But thanks for sharing us the brilliance. Go check out Moburst, you all, and ~ this guy has a smart brain. Get ready. There's a lot here. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for joining us.