#182 - Why Most Leaders Misunderstand Human Performance | Curtis Sprouse

1
00:00:00,056 --> 00:00:06,362
When most people are struggling with something, nine times out of 10, I would tell you
it's because they've defined the problem incorrectly.

2
00:00:06,362 --> 00:00:08,166
They're solving for the wrong problem.

3
00:00:28,910 --> 00:00:33,413
Hey you all, welcome back to another, uh I've been using this word awesome a lot.

4
00:00:33,413 --> 00:00:41,509
Let's wait until the end to see if it's awesome, but I think that the previous
conversation I had here with Curtis, I'll give the introduction, is going to be extremely

5
00:00:41,509 --> 00:00:42,459
valuable for all of us.

6
00:00:42,459 --> 00:00:45,982
This is probably one I'll be able to sit back, we'll see if I can keep from interrupting.

7
00:00:45,982 --> 00:00:53,207
This is probably one that I can sit back and ask two or three questions and it'll be as if
we're reading one of the best books of 2026.

8
00:00:53,207 --> 00:00:56,929
So let me introduce Curtis and then we'll unlock this and get rolling.

9
00:00:56,929 --> 00:00:58,382
But Curtis Sprouse.

10
00:00:58,382 --> 00:01:02,702
A lot of times, I make sure I said the name right, but I think I got that one correct.

11
00:01:02,702 --> 00:01:12,342
President and CEO of Eureka Connect, where he works with leaders and organizations to
unlock high performance through validated behavioral methods and real world decision

12
00:01:12,342 --> 00:01:13,202
frameworks.

13
00:01:13,202 --> 00:01:15,982
That's a lot, but I'm pumped about going deep into it.

14
00:01:15,982 --> 00:01:25,982
With more than two decades of experience advising Fortune 500 companies, scaling programs
that drive leadership and team outcomes, and supporting entrepreneurial ecosystems through

15
00:01:25,982 --> 00:01:27,062
initiatives.

16
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,852
like the Institute for Biomedical Entrepreneurship.

17
00:01:29,852 --> 00:01:37,218
I'm pumped because we now have the thing I love, entrepreneurship that I've been playing
with for a couple of decades with medicine, with biomedical.

18
00:01:37,619 --> 00:01:43,684
Curtis brings both operator experience and strategic insight into how people decide, lead
and grow.

19
00:01:43,684 --> 00:01:45,966
And if that's not entrepreneurial, I don't know what is.

20
00:01:45,966 --> 00:01:52,372
We'll talk about leadership, performance decisions and the lessons he's learned working
with hundreds of teams and founders.

21
00:01:52,372 --> 00:01:55,454
Curtis, welcome to the necessary entrepreneur.

22
00:01:55,758 --> 00:01:56,490
She's smart.

23
00:01:56,490 --> 00:01:57,332
for having me.

24
00:01:57,332 --> 00:02:01,130
Appreciate the opportunity to chat with you and your audience.

25
00:02:01,294 --> 00:02:08,574
Absolutely, we were talking about the Northeast so we're a little chilly so maybe
someone's down on the beach in Florida or in the Caribbean or somewhere in Hawaii and

26
00:02:08,574 --> 00:02:20,894
they're just sitting in the lap of luxury while we're cold but what a what a good day and
a good opportunity going to 2026 to have you on It's funny what in 2026 what do we know

27
00:02:20,894 --> 00:02:22,074
about?

28
00:02:22,074 --> 00:02:28,486
human performance That maybe when you started in the 80s that we didn't know

29
00:02:28,630 --> 00:02:31,674
And if you want to redirect it, can say, no, we know the same things.

30
00:02:31,674 --> 00:02:38,162
But I'm interested in, do we know something now about human performance that we didn't
know then that significantly stands out in your work?

31
00:02:38,590 --> 00:02:41,432
Oh, I think it's a great question.

32
00:02:41,432 --> 00:02:47,817
I think we're learning so much about the brain or understanding environment better, the
impact environment has.

33
00:02:47,817 --> 00:02:57,443
We're understanding genetics as a precursor to um having certain or providing certain
predictors of how we'll act or react.

34
00:02:57,443 --> 00:03:06,766
uh You know, I've I made a pivot, my career, you know, I'm an accountant and finance guy
by training, but I made a pivot to the behavioral side in 2029.

35
00:03:06,766 --> 00:03:12,746
sort of officially, I'd always dabbled in it and had done a lot of work with teams using
behavioral tools.

36
00:03:12,746 --> 00:03:25,586
in 2009, we found a Eureka Connect and the knowledge that we've gained in working with
people using objective measures of behavior, both from a genetic and learning perspective,

37
00:03:25,586 --> 00:03:34,274
I think we're constantly learning more more and more about the elasticity of the brain,
what can influence.

38
00:03:34,274 --> 00:03:37,225
you know, the development of the brain or the denigration of the brain.

39
00:03:37,225 --> 00:03:48,140
You know, we're seeing this from the CTE data that's coming back on traumatic brain
injury, you know, with the athletes in particular, there's a lot of work being done there.

40
00:03:48,140 --> 00:03:56,863
But, uh you know, we're going to constantly learn more and more about things that we can
do to uh improve and strengthen leadership.

41
00:03:57,124 --> 00:04:03,156
I think one of the things that we're seeing now, and you and I dabbled into this a little
bit before we started

42
00:04:03,234 --> 00:04:06,555
to go live here on tape.

43
00:04:06,555 --> 00:04:14,257
I was listening to some of your other podcasts and people were saying, how hard life is
now and how much more difficult and more dangerous it's become.

44
00:04:14,257 --> 00:04:23,899
And I think I just gave you a little shout out to John Steinbeck and said, when was the
last time these people read The Grapes of Wrath?

45
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,921
Back in the 1930s, life was really hard.

46
00:04:28,921 --> 00:04:33,312
A majority of the United States people were trying to just make sure they had enough food
to eat every day.

47
00:04:33,398 --> 00:04:41,158
Not whether they're going to get a cell phone or be able to watch Netflix or, you know,
buy a new car or go on vacation.

48
00:04:41,158 --> 00:04:50,191
Um, you know, what, look right now, what number one growth area for, uh, drugs right now
is GLP ones for obesity.

49
00:04:50,412 --> 00:04:54,255
Even the most poor people in this country are suffering from obesity.

50
00:04:54,255 --> 00:04:55,976
That means they're eating too much.

51
00:04:56,096 --> 00:04:58,899
So think about that dynamic in less than a hundred years.

52
00:04:58,899 --> 00:05:03,602
We went from people that were starving to death to people now that are dying from heart
disease because they're overeating.

53
00:05:03,736 --> 00:05:07,950
So why does our human brain and our default go to things are hard?

54
00:05:07,950 --> 00:05:17,798
Without having the connection to the perspective of, because I do find myself very often,
I think I've done a pretty good job of realizing how good we have it.

55
00:05:17,798 --> 00:05:21,430
And I just feel fortunate and I just have massive gratitude.

56
00:05:21,430 --> 00:05:26,405
Now, I don't lose track of the things I do every day to earn the outcomes I want in my
life.

57
00:05:26,405 --> 00:05:33,154
I'm really focused on that because if I just sit around and wait for it to happen, I'm not
going to earn a top tier outcome in my life.

58
00:05:33,154 --> 00:05:34,634
That's very rare that happens.

59
00:05:34,634 --> 00:05:41,357
It's hard enough if we go all in to also be in the top one or two percent, not income, top
one or two percent of performers.

60
00:05:41,357 --> 00:05:47,038
But very often with the people I'm engaging with, I say, hey guys, it's just very simple.

61
00:05:47,038 --> 00:05:49,599
I just try to be more optimistic than pessimistic.

62
00:05:49,599 --> 00:05:57,701
And that does something to my brain thinking, hey, there's still a better opportunity
today and we're living better today than I was when I was a kid.

63
00:05:57,701 --> 00:05:59,970
Imagine I say it so often.

64
00:05:59,970 --> 00:06:04,272
these zero degree temperatures that you're doing with and we're doing with here in
Cincinnati.

65
00:06:04,272 --> 00:06:15,657
And I texted someone the other night and I said, how fortunate are we to have warm houses,
warm office buildings, cars that we can auto start from an app on my phone, uh regardless

66
00:06:15,657 --> 00:06:19,759
even if we're still living paycheck to paycheck, our lives are so much better.

67
00:06:19,759 --> 00:06:21,710
Have you learned, are you going deep?

68
00:06:21,710 --> 00:06:26,752
Do you know why humans default to feeling like things are hard?

69
00:06:27,414 --> 00:06:29,967
Well, it's good business, right?

70
00:06:29,967 --> 00:06:31,658
Look at the news every night.

71
00:06:31,658 --> 00:06:32,960
You're depressed.

72
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:33,750
You're fat.

73
00:06:33,750 --> 00:06:41,689
you know, think, look at all the companies selling anti-anxiety drugs or, you know, weight
loss programs or so it's become good business.

74
00:06:41,689 --> 00:06:50,067
And, the internet has accentuated the ability for companies to communicate what they, you
know, look, you have a problem.

75
00:06:50,067 --> 00:06:51,358
have a solution.

76
00:06:51,510 --> 00:06:51,770
Right?

77
00:06:51,770 --> 00:06:57,814
So it's just become more pronounced, you know, back in, you know, go back to my reference
of Stein back in the 1930s.

78
00:06:57,814 --> 00:07:09,102
Um, you didn't have the internet, you didn't have cell phones, you didn't have instant
communication or ways to influence what people see and do, you know, constantly 24 seven.

79
00:07:09,102 --> 00:07:21,144
So I think it's the, the channels of communication have become more tied to us and the
consistency with which companies can communicate is unbroken.

80
00:07:21,144 --> 00:07:27,456
to some extent because of these different mechanisms of communication, different channels
of communication.

81
00:07:27,456 --> 00:07:33,457
So when you're told you're something all the time, you begin to believe you're that thing,
right?

82
00:07:33,457 --> 00:07:36,838
It's just, you said this really well.

83
00:07:36,838 --> 00:07:47,841
If you believe and look at the world in a positive manner, it's gonna give you a different
perspective on how you're gonna engage with everything you do.

84
00:07:47,841 --> 00:07:51,382
know, am I, if I have,

85
00:07:51,586 --> 00:07:53,357
You know, I deal with CEOs a lot, right?

86
00:07:53,357 --> 00:07:57,909
I coach a lot of CEOs and work with their teams.

87
00:07:59,071 --> 00:08:11,278
Every day is going to present a problem for you, whether it's the snow in the steps, um a
bill you got to pay, one of your kids is sick, your wife is mad at you, whatever it is,

88
00:08:11,278 --> 00:08:11,568
right?

89
00:08:11,568 --> 00:08:14,479
There's a myriad of problems that will be presented to you.

90
00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:18,902
And if my wife is upset at me for some reason,

91
00:08:19,506 --> 00:08:26,269
And my attitude was, I'm going to double down and just ignore her or yell at her.

92
00:08:26,409 --> 00:08:32,792
Then the chances of resolving whatever that is, probably reduced significantly.

93
00:08:32,792 --> 00:08:35,432
But if I look at it and say, hey, hun, what's wrong?

94
00:08:35,432 --> 00:08:40,114
Is there something I'm doing or I could do to put you in a better place?

95
00:08:40,655 --> 00:08:41,635
Right.

96
00:08:42,435 --> 00:08:45,257
Then the chances of resolving that are improved, right?

97
00:08:45,257 --> 00:08:46,187
And that's all attitude.

98
00:08:46,187 --> 00:08:47,797
It's just how you look at it.

99
00:08:49,094 --> 00:08:56,445
I think that what's happened in our society now is that there are far more negative
influences because people always want to sell you solution.

100
00:08:57,248 --> 00:09:02,036
So if I tell you that things are worse all the time, then I've got a solution.

101
00:09:02,036 --> 00:09:03,687
um

102
00:09:03,687 --> 00:09:05,369
Here's what they're not combining with that though.

103
00:09:05,369 --> 00:09:08,414
They're not combining with we have to take action with the solution.

104
00:09:08,918 --> 00:09:15,720
No, a lot of times, well, our business is, let's define what the problem really is and
where it resides.

105
00:09:15,820 --> 00:09:22,562
So, you know, if I put Mark through an assessment, what are your genetic characteristics?

106
00:09:22,562 --> 00:09:28,163
If we look at motivational theory, energy, dominance, discipline, competing, what are the
drivers?

107
00:09:28,163 --> 00:09:36,645
Are you driven by discipline, work ethic, you know, doing things at the highest degree of
quality and being on time?

108
00:09:36,645 --> 00:09:39,150
um

109
00:09:39,150 --> 00:09:40,730
You know, are you competitive?

110
00:09:40,730 --> 00:09:44,850
You and I talked about this earlier, aggressive, direct, strategic or internal.

111
00:09:44,850 --> 00:09:46,750
Where do you direct your competitive nature?

112
00:09:46,750 --> 00:09:47,990
Are you dominant?

113
00:09:48,070 --> 00:09:49,250
Do have a big ego?

114
00:09:49,250 --> 00:09:50,650
Do you like yourself?

115
00:09:50,670 --> 00:09:53,150
You know, how ego driven are you?

116
00:09:53,150 --> 00:09:55,750
And then energy, how fast do you move through life?

117
00:09:55,750 --> 00:09:57,370
you, you know, are you a high energy person?

118
00:09:57,370 --> 00:10:08,022
You get out of bed and you're ready to hit the road running or are you sort of laid back
and take my time and lower, lower voice?

119
00:10:08,022 --> 00:10:09,465
lower presence.

120
00:10:09,649 --> 00:10:12,698
These things are sort of hardwired and they're,

121
00:10:15,094 --> 00:10:25,362
indicators many times of when you start laying stress and environment on what will be the
natural proclivity of that person if there are extremes in that genetic profile.

122
00:10:25,463 --> 00:10:30,597
So we look at those kinds of things and say, look, I don't want to guess what Mark's
situation is.

123
00:10:30,597 --> 00:10:39,154
Let's find out to the best of our ability using these instruments where he is right now on
this genetic spectrum and learning spectrum.

124
00:10:39,154 --> 00:10:43,948
And let's help him focus his development with a greater level of awareness.

125
00:10:44,286 --> 00:10:49,749
and a more relevant focus on what he can do to be a better version of himself.

126
00:10:49,749 --> 00:10:52,570
So we look at this, you know, trait versus state.

127
00:10:52,570 --> 00:10:59,093
We look at self-awareness as a precursor to self-regulation, self-management, right?

128
00:10:59,093 --> 00:11:10,638
And then we look at to what extent do stressors, physical stressors, emotional stressors,
environmental stressors, um how do you navigate it given sort of that better understanding

129
00:11:10,638 --> 00:11:11,618
of self?

130
00:11:11,874 --> 00:11:14,112
Why is it important for us to know this?

131
00:11:16,514 --> 00:11:20,056
Well, it doesn't hurt, right?

132
00:11:20,056 --> 00:11:30,022
The more we know about ourselves, the better we are at um understanding how to improve
ourselves, if in fact that's what you're interested in doing.

133
00:11:30,126 --> 00:11:31,278
Yeah, that's what I was thinking about.

134
00:11:31,278 --> 00:11:34,464
Are we interested in high performance in any category of our life?

135
00:11:35,339 --> 00:11:41,504
I wouldn't even see it has to to achieve high performance.

136
00:11:41,504 --> 00:11:45,907
Why not just to find joy and satisfaction in our lives?

137
00:11:46,168 --> 00:11:54,255
There are a lot of people that walk around just, you said it earlier, we're very
privileged, you and I in particular.

138
00:11:54,255 --> 00:12:02,612
The fact that we're videoing a conversation so that we can provide it to others as opposed
to just having a conversation speaks to that we're sort of.

139
00:12:02,934 --> 00:12:06,877
lucky enough to be able to afford the equipment and have the time and know how to do this
stuff, right?

140
00:12:06,877 --> 00:12:10,620
um So it puts us in a different category.

141
00:12:10,620 --> 00:12:21,689
um But I work with lots of people that financially have more money and means and resources
that they'll ever need in their lives, but yet they have no joy in their life.

142
00:12:21,689 --> 00:12:23,071
They're not happy.

143
00:12:23,071 --> 00:12:24,592
They're stressed every day.

144
00:12:24,592 --> 00:12:28,195
They're in jobs that don't provide gratification.

145
00:12:28,195 --> 00:12:31,617
um They don't feel a sense of accomplishment.

146
00:12:32,358 --> 00:12:37,340
This week alone, I've probably talked to a half dozen people that said, do my job because
I'm overpaid to do it.

147
00:12:37,941 --> 00:12:40,743
And it's too much hassle to get a new one.

148
00:12:40,743 --> 00:12:47,394
And I'm going to point my life where I'll just sort of keep grinding on for a few more
years and then I'll retire and that'll be it.

149
00:12:47,394 --> 00:12:49,096
What's your role in that conversation?

150
00:12:49,096 --> 00:12:52,960
Just to listen or are you trying to depend on why you're there?

151
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,382
Do you help them work through to just let them be?

152
00:12:55,822 --> 00:12:57,562
It depends on what they want.

153
00:12:57,802 --> 00:12:59,142
Do they want help?

154
00:12:59,422 --> 00:13:05,302
know, do they want, do they want, I had a good friend yesterday who she just wanted to
talk.

155
00:13:05,342 --> 00:13:06,742
You know, I didn't assess her.

156
00:13:06,742 --> 00:13:07,762
I assessed her years ago.

157
00:13:07,762 --> 00:13:12,802
I haven't assessed her recently, but we were just talking sort of like the state of her
life, the state of my life.

158
00:13:12,802 --> 00:13:15,762
And she just wanted to know what my thoughts were.

159
00:13:15,862 --> 00:13:18,882
You know, that was just a friend to a friend, right?

160
00:13:18,902 --> 00:13:20,396
But you know, then.

161
00:13:20,396 --> 00:13:23,908
You know, I had another conversation earlier this week with a guy that I've worked with
previously.

162
00:13:23,908 --> 00:13:25,886
The company's gone through a lot of changes.

163
00:13:25,886 --> 00:13:28,090
A lot of really quality leaders have laughed.

164
00:13:28,090 --> 00:13:35,395
There's sort of a uh dynamic of mediocrity that's settled in with this company, but
they're in a sector where they control the sector.

165
00:13:35,395 --> 00:13:44,420
So the company intends to do, continues to do well, even though the leadership team
probably is not as strong as it used to be and the culture is not as strong.

166
00:13:44,420 --> 00:13:49,022
And so he and I talked about, I can't solve things upstream for him.

167
00:13:49,356 --> 00:13:56,572
I can't help him at the ELT level and the CEO level, but I can't help him at his level and
everything around him and down.

168
00:13:56,732 --> 00:14:06,260
And so I said, you you can improve your day and your life and your performance by
improving the people around you, regardless of what the leaders do.

169
00:14:06,801 --> 00:14:09,443
And he's like, geez, that makes a lot of sense.

170
00:14:09,443 --> 00:14:16,689
I said, so you don't have to be beholden to your leadership team and accepting that that's
just the way it's always got to be.

171
00:14:16,689 --> 00:14:18,434
I said, you can control that.

172
00:14:18,434 --> 00:14:28,041
That's a more deliberate, more, you know, you know, where we'll probably hopefully engage
in a project where we'll address his specific needs.

173
00:14:28,041 --> 00:14:31,322
But I think the underpinning of what you asked me is this.

174
00:14:32,464 --> 00:14:38,567
Whenever I talk to somebody, I have two goals and I've shared this on every podcast I've
ever been on.

175
00:14:39,068 --> 00:14:42,770
number one, can I improve my relationship with Mark?

176
00:14:43,351 --> 00:14:46,253
You and I virtually had no relationship until what?

177
00:14:46,253 --> 00:14:47,854
Less than a half hour ago.

178
00:14:47,916 --> 00:14:48,346
Right.

179
00:14:48,346 --> 00:14:52,048
But can I develop a connection with you?

180
00:14:52,289 --> 00:14:53,719
You know, we're both from the Midwest.

181
00:14:53,719 --> 00:14:55,650
You're from, you know, the Ohio area.

182
00:14:55,650 --> 00:14:57,311
I'm from Western Pennsylvania.

183
00:14:57,311 --> 00:14:58,532
That was immediate connection.

184
00:14:58,532 --> 00:15:01,714
Geographically, we sort of grew up in the same environment.

185
00:15:01,714 --> 00:15:06,797
there's a certain thing where there's so many things I don't have to tell you based on
just telling you I grew up in Western Pennsylvania.

186
00:15:06,797 --> 00:15:07,877
So many things you know about me.

187
00:15:07,877 --> 00:15:15,901
The fact that, you know, I'm a Steelers fan and you're probably a, you know, uh a very sad
Bengals fan, right?

188
00:15:16,812 --> 00:15:18,195
And you're trying to be a comedian.

189
00:15:18,195 --> 00:15:20,641
But keep going.

190
00:15:20,641 --> 00:15:21,343
Keep going on this.

191
00:15:21,343 --> 00:15:22,124
Yes.

192
00:15:22,190 --> 00:15:29,634
But so number one is can I build a connection and can I elevate and advance our
relationship?

193
00:15:29,854 --> 00:15:36,124
Can I get to know you, let you get to know me and then the next time you and I chat, can
we build on that?

194
00:15:36,124 --> 00:15:40,279
So number one is always building and strengthening our relationship, no matter who it's
with.

195
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,001
With you, with a client, with my wife, with my kids.

196
00:15:43,001 --> 00:15:44,430
um

197
00:15:44,430 --> 00:15:47,186
Even with an audience that hears you and wants to connect.

198
00:15:47,810 --> 00:15:50,873
Yeah, I would hope that the audience connects to what we're talking about.

199
00:15:50,873 --> 00:15:55,176
I would hope that it gets them to think.

200
00:15:55,437 --> 00:16:00,081
My goal, I tell clients, my job isn't to tell you what to think, it's just to get you to
think.

201
00:16:00,081 --> 00:16:11,130
And think with greater clarity, and that that thinking is based in facts and reality, not
emotion and perception.

202
00:16:11,771 --> 00:16:15,774
And then the second part of it is, can I always advance the situation?

203
00:16:16,270 --> 00:16:19,972
Can I leave you better than you were situationally?

204
00:16:20,033 --> 00:16:32,562
Meaning in this broad spectrum of, if we'd look at every podcast Mark's ever done, will
you remember me a year from now versus others that you can't even remember what you talk?

205
00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:35,430
I only remember 10%.

206
00:16:35,938 --> 00:16:36,579
Yeah.

207
00:16:36,579 --> 00:16:49,258
If that, I, I mean, I, I do podcasts and I do conversations and you know, if, I have, you
know, on average, if I have 12 conversations a day times five days a week, right.

208
00:16:49,258 --> 00:16:52,184
It's 60 conversations on average a week.

209
00:16:52,184 --> 00:16:53,673
Two or three are impactful.

210
00:16:53,804 --> 00:16:55,264
Yeah, no, I'm just not gonna remember them all.

211
00:16:55,264 --> 00:17:00,279
That's why I take copious notes, because I need to remember details from those
conversations.

212
00:17:00,279 --> 00:17:03,100
But a lot of it has to do with the strength of that relationship.

213
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:06,863
um Was it an interesting conversation, and did we advance it?

214
00:17:06,863 --> 00:17:12,687
Or the other side, I have one this week where I had an email exchange with a CEO, and it
just got sideways.

215
00:17:13,027 --> 00:17:23,054
And he just got, you know, he asked me to do something for him, and he offered a price,
and I thought it was a little bit low, and I offered a counter price, and he went nuts.

216
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:24,562
You know, this is ridiculous.

217
00:17:24,562 --> 00:17:25,051
can't believe it.

218
00:17:25,051 --> 00:17:27,216
I'm like, well, we have a difference in opinion.

219
00:17:27,619 --> 00:17:28,831
You know, it's easy.

220
00:17:28,831 --> 00:17:31,837
All you have to say is I'm not interested or I think it's too high.

221
00:17:31,837 --> 00:17:33,549
And that's, we move on.

222
00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:36,108
Did you have previous relationship with this person?

223
00:17:36,108 --> 00:17:36,982
Yes.

224
00:17:37,013 --> 00:17:37,855
Yeah.

225
00:17:38,055 --> 00:17:40,222
What happened in that dynamic?

226
00:17:40,222 --> 00:17:43,435
Because we're talking about building relationships and context.

227
00:17:43,435 --> 00:17:44,757
What happened there?

228
00:17:45,294 --> 00:17:53,094
Well, in his data, you can see that there's an intensity that can lead to an inability to
control impulse.

229
00:17:53,434 --> 00:17:56,574
Now, I don't think I was the reason he's upset.

230
00:17:56,574 --> 00:17:57,414
There you go.

231
00:17:57,414 --> 00:18:01,974
think it's, it's, an entrepreneur, I think he's got challenges with his business.

232
00:18:02,014 --> 00:18:03,534
There are multifactorial challenges.

233
00:18:03,534 --> 00:18:05,194
It's not one thing.

234
00:18:05,494 --> 00:18:15,270
It's not enough capital and problems with his development team and, you know, a myriad of
things that, you know, I, I don't even begin to say that I understand or know.

235
00:18:15,288 --> 00:18:28,329
But I'm quite certain that there are number of things going on with him and my not
agreeing with him was, and I'm far enough away from what he needs to worry about that he

236
00:18:28,329 --> 00:18:29,349
can take it out on me.

237
00:18:29,349 --> 00:18:30,590
And that's what he did.

238
00:18:31,906 --> 00:18:38,253
So, um, what's your response in a situation like that where you may not put that thing
together?

239
00:18:38,253 --> 00:18:42,998
Will you put that together or no, you'll just move on and maybe you'll work together on
something else.

240
00:18:43,854 --> 00:18:57,323
I'd like to put it together, but um I mean, I responded to the first email where he said
he wasn't happy with the, look, you know, I understand your decision and if I can ever

241
00:18:57,323 --> 00:18:58,754
help you, my door's always open.

242
00:18:58,754 --> 00:19:02,767
And then I got this sort of outrageous response to that, right?

243
00:19:02,767 --> 00:19:08,210
And I haven't responded because um again, it's not solely my decision.

244
00:19:08,210 --> 00:19:12,744
I talked to my VP of ops and she's got great clarity and she's been with me for years and
years and years.

245
00:19:12,744 --> 00:19:13,834
And she said,

246
00:19:14,316 --> 00:19:17,228
I think if you respond, all you're going to do is escalate it.

247
00:19:17,589 --> 00:19:30,449
And it gets back to, I'm most likely right in my understanding of what's going on and
where the opportunity is to help this young leader, but I'm probably not relevant right

248
00:19:30,449 --> 00:19:32,762
now because he's just not in a place to receive it.

249
00:19:32,762 --> 00:19:37,518
So sometimes you just have to sort of move on and maybe it comes back and maybe it
doesn't.

250
00:19:37,518 --> 00:19:44,804
Do you find a lot of these problems when somebody generic, not generic, but reaches out to
you with something novel that you hadn't helped them with before?

251
00:19:44,804 --> 00:19:51,109
Do you find that the problem is almost always optics for the individual and internal?

252
00:19:51,310 --> 00:19:58,535
It's not necessary because there's probably, and I asked that because if it's industry
specific, there's probably someone else in the industry that's solving it.

253
00:19:59,297 --> 00:20:01,428
So is it usually the individual?

254
00:20:01,686 --> 00:20:05,388
It's, I love the word you'd uh optics, Mark.

255
00:20:06,009 --> 00:20:16,376
And so here's what I say is when most people are struggling with something, nine times out
of 10, I would tell you it's because they've defined the problem incorrectly.

256
00:20:16,757 --> 00:20:18,678
They're solving for the wrong problem.

257
00:20:18,678 --> 00:20:19,969
So it's their optics.

258
00:20:19,969 --> 00:20:21,580
And why is that?

259
00:20:21,580 --> 00:20:30,056
Well, let's just take a CEO of a, let's say a venture or private equity backed company.

260
00:20:30,614 --> 00:20:35,035
They are most worried about their investor, right?

261
00:20:35,035 --> 00:20:39,296
Now let's take your head of R &D and your head of manufacturing.

262
00:20:40,597 --> 00:20:51,800
They're worried about building a product and the quality of that product and the ability
to replicate that product with consistency in a way that it can be sold and the service

263
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,801
and support of that product is reasonable and the cost can be controlled.

264
00:20:55,801 --> 00:20:58,452
So there's a lot of detail, right?

265
00:20:59,286 --> 00:21:05,829
The CEO is worried about the investor and things that they can present to the investor
that keeps the investor happy.

266
00:21:05,909 --> 00:21:12,492
But the frontline guys on R &D and manufacturing are worried about the minutia of did
Johnny show up?

267
00:21:12,492 --> 00:21:14,403
Is Susan going to go on maternity leave?

268
00:21:14,403 --> 00:21:18,104
Do we have enough capital to do X, Y, and Z?

269
00:21:18,104 --> 00:21:20,375
We've got a vendor that's not delivering.

270
00:21:20,555 --> 00:21:27,118
And so when a problem's defined that, hey, our quality of product's not where it needs to
be,

271
00:21:27,724 --> 00:21:33,136
The CEO is trying to communicate to the board in a different way than the head of
manufacturing or R &D.

272
00:21:33,136 --> 00:21:41,180
And so there's a big divide between how the CEO frames that problem and how the team.

273
00:21:41,180 --> 00:21:43,700
And so here's a way you dissect that.

274
00:21:44,301 --> 00:21:49,002
If Mark has a problem, I like to ask a couple of questions.

275
00:21:49,303 --> 00:21:57,486
Is the problem the result of people, process, lack of resources, or lack of

276
00:21:57,486 --> 00:21:58,926
different priorities.

277
00:21:59,988 --> 00:22:05,812
And nine times out of 10, the primary driver of the problem will be defined by one of
those four characteristics.

278
00:22:05,812 --> 00:22:14,568
We've got the wrong person, the person's not capable, there's not a clear process, we
don't really know what we're doing, we don't have enough resources to get the job done,

279
00:22:14,568 --> 00:22:18,882
know, resources can be time, or it's just not a priority.

280
00:22:18,882 --> 00:22:21,203
What's important to me is an important remark.

281
00:22:21,664 --> 00:22:25,174
And if you ask the CEO how to frame that same problem,

282
00:22:25,174 --> 00:22:30,140
Invariably, they will pick a different order with regard to what is the problem.

283
00:22:30,481 --> 00:22:40,593
And that's, that's, that's a big problem because there's, there's, there are
characteristics that are affecting that situation and outcome.

284
00:22:41,055 --> 00:22:44,008
And the ones that you need to solve for the ones you need to solve for.

285
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:54,009
So in these situations a lot, we go back to what our default mechanisms are from our DNA
or from our adolescence or whenever that's developed, who we are.

286
00:22:54,009 --> 00:22:57,342
I'm sure in your brain, you know, I'm like, does it happen in middle school?

287
00:22:57,342 --> 00:23:00,605
Does it happen from being 10 months old to three years old?

288
00:23:00,605 --> 00:23:10,712
But in these CEOs, if they're struggling with these vast problems and whether it's a vast
problem or not, you might be able to identify it and create a solve in five minutes.

289
00:23:10,712 --> 00:23:14,965
but they just might be so far in it, feels enormous and vast to them.

290
00:23:15,206 --> 00:23:19,009
Do you see them in these big organizational problems?

291
00:23:19,009 --> 00:23:26,215
Do you see them able to evolve, to change themselves so that they can then fix the
problem?

292
00:23:26,836 --> 00:23:29,608
Or do they continue down the path of who they are?

293
00:23:30,912 --> 00:23:33,723
Oh, the answer to that one's easy, yes and no.

294
00:23:34,764 --> 00:23:45,099
Yeah, I mean, I'm fortunate that I work with a lot of people that are really quality
leaders before they ever meet me, and they just become better because I'm able to give

295
00:23:45,099 --> 00:23:53,023
them a little bit more of an edge, a little bit more clarity on what they could work on
and what they could refine and mechanisms to do that more efficiently than they found

296
00:23:53,023 --> 00:23:55,273
previously in their careers.

297
00:23:57,006 --> 00:24:01,626
You know, I could point to literally hundreds of people I've worked with where they were
already good.

298
00:24:02,086 --> 00:24:11,206
You know, if we take the, you mentioned earlier in the conversation, I don't know if we
were filming at that time, you know, being in the top 3%, you know, being in the top 2%,

299
00:24:11,206 --> 00:24:13,806
being in the top 1 % of performance.

300
00:24:14,246 --> 00:24:18,746
Um, I look at it, it's, it's an 80 20 world.

301
00:24:19,006 --> 00:24:23,746
80 % of the people are average to poor at what they do and 20 % are typically pretty good.

302
00:24:24,326 --> 00:24:26,466
So when Mark goes to the doctor.

303
00:24:26,466 --> 00:24:27,118
the next time.

304
00:24:27,118 --> 00:24:30,594
What are the chances your doctors in the top 20 % of all doctors?

305
00:24:30,594 --> 00:24:39,798
I asked the doctor that I changed doctors to two years ago, I looked at her and I said,
Hey, you're going to get to know me really quick, but are you great?

306
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,100
And she turned around and she said, I'm the best.

307
00:24:46,021 --> 00:24:47,541
And I went, tell me what that means.

308
00:24:47,541 --> 00:24:56,355
said, cause I'm only interested in working with people in every area that they're the top
performance level of the thing they do, because I'm going to put a lot of trust in you and

309
00:24:56,355 --> 00:24:58,676
I'm going to listen to you and know that.

310
00:24:58,676 --> 00:25:01,092
every day you're trying to be the best in your category.

311
00:25:01,092 --> 00:25:04,348
that's the only when I work with people, that's all I'm interested in.

312
00:25:05,358 --> 00:25:09,338
Okay, so I would say that's a great premise.

313
00:25:10,798 --> 00:25:16,758
But I think the reality of it is 80 % of the people you're gonna engage in during the day
are gonna be average to port what they do.

314
00:25:16,758 --> 00:25:17,778
I agree with you.

315
00:25:17,778 --> 00:25:22,138
And if you're leading a company, you're going to have those people that work for you.

316
00:25:22,258 --> 00:25:26,718
And the question is, can Kurt and Mark elevate those people?

317
00:25:27,058 --> 00:25:30,584
Because really talented people will always get better.

318
00:25:30,584 --> 00:25:32,055
They're lifelong learners.

319
00:25:32,055 --> 00:25:34,097
take care of themselves intellectually.

320
00:25:34,097 --> 00:25:35,378
work on themselves physically.

321
00:25:35,378 --> 00:25:40,242
They work on themselves and they are deliberate in their actions and efforts to do so.

322
00:25:40,343 --> 00:25:47,449
And so when a guy like me comes along, I only facilitate that getting done more
efficiently and them doing it better, which is great.

323
00:25:47,449 --> 00:25:48,460
You know, it's great.

324
00:25:48,460 --> 00:25:50,052
Let's be condescending for a minute here.

325
00:25:50,052 --> 00:25:55,020
So I'm going to take the 80 % and I've really been working on something over the last year
or two.

326
00:25:55,020 --> 00:25:57,630
I've been talking about this middle 60.

327
00:25:58,506 --> 00:26:01,039
That that's the place I can really make the biggest difference.

328
00:26:01,039 --> 00:26:01,800
feel.

329
00:26:02,946 --> 00:26:04,246
totally agree with you.

330
00:26:04,367 --> 00:26:05,787
I totally agree with you.

331
00:26:05,787 --> 00:26:15,351
Because in that middle 60 are people that have the potential to be very good, if not great
performers, but their path is harder.

332
00:26:15,872 --> 00:26:18,053
There are more obstacles.

333
00:26:18,253 --> 00:26:29,718
And to the extent that we can reveal those through our process of doing the assessment and
help them have greater clarity on what they can work on, they can be amazing contributors.

334
00:26:30,060 --> 00:26:34,831
Now, doesn't mean, you know, look at, em if you've ever studied John Wooden, right?

335
00:26:34,831 --> 00:26:39,953
And when they asked John Wooden, who were the greatest players he ever coached, it wasn't
cream of Doljabar.

336
00:26:39,953 --> 00:26:42,574
And it wasn't all the people that you would have built Walton.

337
00:26:42,574 --> 00:26:46,354
It were all the guys that were not well known.

338
00:26:46,375 --> 00:26:50,446
And he said, he said in an interview, if you look at the last Ted talk he ever did, it's
amazing.

339
00:26:50,446 --> 00:26:54,937
He said it was the guys that he didn't think would make the team.

340
00:26:55,097 --> 00:26:58,678
That significantly contributed to national championships.

341
00:26:58,860 --> 00:27:09,843
Because they learned their role, they played their role, and they contributed at a moment
in time that they were needed and that they made all the difference between failure and

342
00:27:09,843 --> 00:27:10,833
success.

343
00:27:10,833 --> 00:27:14,284
And so I believe every organization has to think that way.

344
00:27:14,284 --> 00:27:16,025
And they don't, they don't.

345
00:27:16,025 --> 00:27:22,356
They look at the middle tier or the lower tier as, you know, uh replaceable.

346
00:27:22,876 --> 00:27:27,618
They don't think about investing in those individuals and elevating them.

347
00:27:27,698 --> 00:27:29,068
And if they did,

348
00:27:29,314 --> 00:27:34,884
they'd find they'd be much more impactful and successful.

349
00:27:36,472 --> 00:27:40,029
So what have you learned about human beings?

350
00:27:42,734 --> 00:27:49,914
Whether it's our mindset, our operating system, I make this reference with people that are
really close to me at times.

351
00:27:49,914 --> 00:27:58,114
I'm like, you all got to drop the windows 2000 and get on board with a new operating
system because we're working at a new age and we have to process things differently with

352
00:27:58,114 --> 00:27:59,574
who we are in our brains.

353
00:28:01,890 --> 00:28:13,940
Was it written in stone that Mark and Curtis were going to be sitting here talking in a
leadership role in 2026?

354
00:28:15,426 --> 00:28:20,192
You mean, was it predestined that you and I would end up here now?

355
00:28:20,460 --> 00:28:31,229
not predestined, was it they already have the DNA that if they do the work, they're going
to end up there versus an argument would be some other people are going to have this DNA,

356
00:28:31,229 --> 00:28:34,684
this operating system that they do the work, they're going to end up somewhere different.

357
00:28:37,070 --> 00:28:46,004
uh I think it's a great question to ask from the standpoint that it opens the door to
discussions in multiple directions.

358
00:28:46,004 --> 00:28:56,778
So number one, uh is it that there's a dynamic that exists within each of us naturally
that allows us to achieve certain things?

359
00:28:56,778 --> 00:28:58,239
I would say yes.

360
00:28:58,539 --> 00:29:03,901
But I would say that that's accentuated by the environment and the experiences that we
have.

361
00:29:06,670 --> 00:29:13,456
Um, if you go back to it again, because it's, it's first, it's in my mind now because I'm
reading it.

362
00:29:13,456 --> 00:29:21,042
Um, but if you go back to sort of the concept of Easton Eden, right, it's, it's the story
of Cain and Abel, right?

363
00:29:21,162 --> 00:29:31,971
And, it's initially told through, you know, uh, the brothers, uh, you know, was it, Adam
and, uh, Thomas, right.

364
00:29:31,971 --> 00:29:35,574
But then, then when, um,

365
00:29:36,214 --> 00:29:40,936
When Adam has his sons, then his twins, it's told again through those two boys.

366
00:29:41,156 --> 00:29:46,938
And because their environment was better, more stable through the influence of Lee, right?

367
00:29:46,938 --> 00:29:51,840
They developed as more sound human beings, right?

368
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,552
They didn't have, they had better relationships.

369
00:29:54,552 --> 00:30:05,666
So I think that's just one small microcosm of an example of where oh an environment does
affect sort of that genetic composition of

370
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:06,531
who one is.

371
00:30:06,531 --> 00:30:18,399
um And, you my daughter, my daughter, Maya, who's 27, um she's getting a graduate degree
right now at Tepper Carnegie Mellon.

372
00:30:18,399 --> 00:30:24,223
um She was in her undergraduate degree at UMass Amherst during COVID.

373
00:30:24,704 --> 00:30:34,420
And that's when they were restricting, you couldn't go on campus and she was a biology
major and she couldn't get on to do her labs and...

374
00:30:34,594 --> 00:30:38,327
And so she just sort of went on campus and went into the lab and did what she needed to
do.

375
00:30:38,327 --> 00:30:41,759
And she's like, dad, when did we become so soft?

376
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:56,491
She's like, when did we decide that we were just gonna barricade ourselves in a home and
stop living because of something that's basically on the same level as a really bad cold?

377
00:30:57,392 --> 00:31:03,994
And at that time she was in her early 20s.

378
00:31:03,994 --> 00:31:04,838
um

379
00:31:05,294 --> 00:31:08,414
But I think that a lot of that comes from, she grew up on a farm.

380
00:31:08,734 --> 00:31:14,314
She grew up with death early on, know, chickens dying and watching the dog rip.

381
00:31:14,314 --> 00:31:22,154
I mean, I remember one morning she couldn't find one of her chickens the night before
Christmas morning and she let the dogs out and she watched, you know, one of the dogs rip

382
00:31:22,154 --> 00:31:27,514
the chicken apart right before she opened her gifts for, you know, and people were like,
oh, that's gross.

383
00:31:27,514 --> 00:31:29,854
And, know, and she just sort of like, that's what happens.

384
00:31:29,854 --> 00:31:33,374
You know, I shouldn't, you know, I should probably.

385
00:31:33,842 --> 00:31:38,424
tried to look for the chicken one last time before I let the dogs out in the morning,
because that's what dogs do, right?

386
00:31:38,424 --> 00:31:49,489
But since she grew up with sort of the harsh understanding of life and death at a young
age, you know, just that's what happens, you know?

387
00:31:49,982 --> 00:31:50,446
So.

388
00:31:50,446 --> 00:31:57,406
To not dip our feet too much in worldly happenings, to stay away from politics and to stay
away from all that because you're never right.

389
00:31:57,406 --> 00:32:00,446
Dip your toe in there in a big, you are never right.

390
00:32:01,606 --> 00:32:13,586
but she, her generation being 27 going through it then, she formed a very unpopular
opinion and still took action to get the outcome that she wanted in her life.

391
00:32:13,586 --> 00:32:17,506
Is there anything in this conversation and your level of expertise about

392
00:32:17,506 --> 00:32:20,478
performance and biomedicine and entrepreneurship.

393
00:32:20,478 --> 00:32:21,862
um

394
00:32:23,394 --> 00:32:33,298
That can be really, really hard to go upstream against the current in society now.

395
00:32:34,159 --> 00:32:42,432
Does that weave itself into what you're doing every day on trying to make the proper and
right decisions for ourselves and for our organizations?

396
00:32:43,372 --> 00:32:47,243
I think, Mark, unfortunately, it has a profound effect.

397
00:32:47,324 --> 00:32:50,145
And I think in not such a healthier, positive way.

398
00:32:50,145 --> 00:32:54,967
um Let's go down the politics side.

399
00:32:54,967 --> 00:32:59,129
um And let's just take Trump.

400
00:32:59,129 --> 00:33:00,849
People hate him or like him.

401
00:33:01,410 --> 00:33:03,531
There's not a lot in between with him.

402
00:33:03,931 --> 00:33:04,371
Right?

403
00:33:04,371 --> 00:33:09,934
um And he does things really well, and he does things very poorly.

404
00:33:09,934 --> 00:33:11,294
He's a human being.

405
00:33:11,980 --> 00:33:17,634
And I think we've gotten into this place where we have to put a label on someone.

406
00:33:18,395 --> 00:33:19,466
We have to put a label.

407
00:33:19,466 --> 00:33:26,442
You're either a great president or a poor president based on these examples.

408
00:33:26,442 --> 00:33:37,471
you know, years ago I used to take a list of presidential accomplishments and I'd put them
in one column and then I'd the president in the other column and I'd ask people to match

409
00:33:37,471 --> 00:33:41,224
the president with the accomplishment.

410
00:33:41,742 --> 00:33:43,042
They're never right.

411
00:33:43,162 --> 00:33:54,065
They always pick the ones that they perceive to be great accomplishments and they align it
with their president that they like, whether it be Democrat or Republican, and they were

412
00:33:54,065 --> 00:33:55,646
invariably wrong.

413
00:33:56,406 --> 00:34:07,329
And so I think that we have gotten to this place, unfortunately, where things that Obama
did were praised and Trump's prosecuted or persecuted for them.

414
00:34:08,029 --> 00:34:09,570
And I think vice versa.

415
00:34:09,570 --> 00:34:11,530
There are things that, you know,

416
00:34:11,530 --> 00:34:19,479
other presidents have done throughout history, Thomas Jefferson's infidelity and Clinton's
infidelity.

417
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,323
Infidelity is infidelity.

418
00:34:23,544 --> 00:34:27,689
Jefferson goes down as one of the greatest presidents in history and Clinton's impeached
for it.

419
00:34:27,689 --> 00:34:30,793
um And I'm not making a judgment either way.

420
00:34:30,793 --> 00:34:32,193
I'm Catholic.

421
00:34:32,438 --> 00:34:33,148
That's what's good.

422
00:34:33,148 --> 00:34:34,289
No, I mean, I think this is great.

423
00:34:34,289 --> 00:34:36,180
We could say the same thing about JFK, right?

424
00:34:36,180 --> 00:34:40,241
I mean, look at how he was looked at in the 60s and even 70s, 80s and 90s.

425
00:34:40,241 --> 00:34:51,256
And now if we look at truly how he performed in his personal life, man, if he would have
been judged then the way that they're judged now, there would have been a massively

426
00:34:51,256 --> 00:34:52,766
different opinion about that guy.

427
00:34:53,035 --> 00:34:55,477
And history remembers things differently.

428
00:34:55,477 --> 00:34:58,109
know, I'm a big fan of Abraham Lincoln.

429
00:34:58,109 --> 00:35:08,596
And if you look at during Lincoln's administration, um and um when he was assassinated,
over half the country hated him.

430
00:35:09,277 --> 00:35:11,378
Viscerally hated him.

431
00:35:12,459 --> 00:35:19,204
In the South, they hated him for destroying the economy, abolishing slavery, you know, all
of that.

432
00:35:19,204 --> 00:35:21,890
But today, he's revered.

433
00:35:21,890 --> 00:35:23,121
by both the North and the South.

434
00:35:23,121 --> 00:35:27,884
He's seen as one of the greatest uh leaders, not just presidents, leaders of all time.

435
00:35:27,884 --> 00:35:33,257
So history will remember things differently than our optics of today.

436
00:35:33,257 --> 00:35:41,972
And I think that if you look at our lives, yours and my life, one of the questions I
always ask people when they come into one of our training programs, the first question I

437
00:35:41,972 --> 00:35:46,264
always ask, write down how you want to be remembered when you die.

438
00:35:46,645 --> 00:35:48,946
How will people talk about Mark when you die?

439
00:35:49,644 --> 00:35:50,350
Why is that important?

440
00:35:50,350 --> 00:35:52,413
Because you use that to direct behavior?

441
00:35:52,590 --> 00:35:53,791
It's the ultimate end.

442
00:35:53,791 --> 00:35:55,261
It's the ultimate objective.

443
00:35:55,261 --> 00:35:57,313
What is your objective with your life?

444
00:35:57,313 --> 00:36:02,035
How do you want people to, and some people will be flippant and say, I don't care, I'll be
dead.

445
00:36:02,075 --> 00:36:03,396
That's not true.

446
00:36:03,996 --> 00:36:07,308
That's not true.

447
00:36:07,308 --> 00:36:07,959
You do care.

448
00:36:07,959 --> 00:36:18,555
And what people typically cite as what's important to them, I want to be remembered as a
good father, a good husband, a good mother, a good daughter, a good friend, someone that

449
00:36:18,555 --> 00:36:21,198
contributed to society, someone that cured disease.

450
00:36:21,198 --> 00:36:24,078
It's always focused on other people.

451
00:36:24,938 --> 00:36:33,058
Something that where people saw you as being a positive in their life and or contributing
to their life.

452
00:36:33,058 --> 00:36:35,058
Always, those are always the factors.

453
00:36:35,058 --> 00:36:37,138
It's never, I want to be rich.

454
00:36:37,138 --> 00:36:42,938
I want to have buildings named, well, I never asked Trump, so maybe it is, want to have
things named after me.

455
00:36:42,998 --> 00:36:51,118
But my point being is that we, in large part, goes back to Maslow, hierarchy of need.

456
00:36:51,286 --> 00:36:51,666
Right?

457
00:36:51,666 --> 00:36:54,409
It's, it's, it's at the very highest level.

458
00:36:54,409 --> 00:36:57,702
It's that self fulfillment, self accomplishment, right?

459
00:36:57,702 --> 00:37:05,420
Once we get back, you know, going back to Steinbeck, once we get back the, you know, we
have food and shelter.

460
00:37:05,420 --> 00:37:06,641
We're not fearing for our life.

461
00:37:06,641 --> 00:37:10,145
We're not fearing that a lion's going to come out of the woods and eat us.

462
00:37:10,145 --> 00:37:13,869
Once we get past those physical needs, right?

463
00:37:13,869 --> 00:37:15,550
Then it's all psychological.

464
00:37:15,867 --> 00:37:22,636
And I think the psychological pressure has become greater because of society and those
channels of communication and what they communicate to us.

465
00:37:22,636 --> 00:37:34,043
Why do we need to feel like um politics, because politics seems to be the new religion,
but why do both of these things, why do we need to be a part of something and why do we

466
00:37:34,043 --> 00:37:34,783
need to be right?

467
00:37:34,783 --> 00:37:36,634
Why do we need our thing to be right?

468
00:37:36,634 --> 00:37:45,779
Is that a part of the psychological aspect of humans that will even help us figuring out
being great leaders, having the outcome we want in our life?

469
00:37:45,779 --> 00:37:47,540
I'm really fascinated.

470
00:37:47,620 --> 00:37:50,772
I don't, and I ask that question from this perspective.

471
00:37:51,584 --> 00:37:54,435
I don't need anyone anymore to agree with me.

472
00:37:54,636 --> 00:38:00,279
I want to try to set the culture for our company and have us all buy into this system that
we're going to have an impact in our industry.

473
00:38:00,279 --> 00:38:01,620
We're going to improve our lives.

474
00:38:01,620 --> 00:38:03,214
Like I do want this thing.

475
00:38:03,214 --> 00:38:08,804
I just say, you all, chose this industry, whichever one of my businesses that I'm
discussing with them.

476
00:38:08,804 --> 00:38:14,907
We chose this and I'm trying to design this to be the best vehicle for anybody that
touches it for us to get us where we want in our lives.

477
00:38:14,907 --> 00:38:15,788
That's it.

478
00:38:15,788 --> 00:38:18,009
I don't, there's going to be times I don't like my job.

479
00:38:18,009 --> 00:38:19,672
There's going to be times I love it.

480
00:38:19,672 --> 00:38:22,565
There's going to be times that great people inside the company leave.

481
00:38:22,565 --> 00:38:23,786
There's going to be great times.

482
00:38:23,786 --> 00:38:26,849
feel like, wow, we made a difference in their life and they're one of the leaders.

483
00:38:26,849 --> 00:38:28,691
There's wins and losses every day.

484
00:38:28,691 --> 00:38:35,157
And I do want to positively impact folks, but I don't need them to agree with how I'm
living my life.

485
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:43,476
And I don't need to agree with how they're living their life other than the metric of, I
do want to be more positive towards people than negative.

486
00:38:45,816 --> 00:38:53,913
Wow, what you just covered is really extraordinary in so many ways, but let's go back to
the very start of what you said.

487
00:38:53,913 --> 00:38:57,816
um Politics has become the new religion.

488
00:38:58,337 --> 00:39:03,961
I think, unfortunately, that's one of the failures of society that we've lost our
religion.

489
00:39:03,981 --> 00:39:05,463
We've lost our faith.

490
00:39:05,463 --> 00:39:09,246
We've lost our understanding that there's something bigger than us, right?

491
00:39:09,246 --> 00:39:14,880
So as a Catholic, um religion is about search for truth.

492
00:39:15,554 --> 00:39:16,754
What is truth?

493
00:39:17,054 --> 00:39:17,575
Right.

494
00:39:17,575 --> 00:39:27,417
And I think that politics should be a search for truth, not a search for being right at
the expense of not being in reality.

495
00:39:28,498 --> 00:39:28,898
Right.

496
00:39:28,898 --> 00:39:39,361
So I think that number one, societally, this country was founded by people that believed
in a uh greater being.

497
00:39:39,621 --> 00:39:42,904
And they believed that whatever you believe that greater being to

498
00:39:42,904 --> 00:39:48,699
be you had the freedom to exercise that belief and pursue that belief.

499
00:39:48,699 --> 00:39:51,481
They didn't restrict what being you had to believe in.

500
00:39:51,481 --> 00:39:56,205
There were clear ideas on what it should be, but there was no mandate that it had to be.

501
00:39:56,205 --> 00:39:59,187
That was one of the beauties of the formation of this country.

502
00:39:59,508 --> 00:40:05,612
And I think that we as a society have gotten so far away from that desire to really
understand truth.

503
00:40:06,053 --> 00:40:11,958
And it's another thing that you sort of alluded to is this idea that it's not about being
right.

504
00:40:11,958 --> 00:40:22,343
It's that we're willing to defend what we know to be wrong because of the shame or
embarrassment or psychological dynamic that once we've made a commitment to something, an

505
00:40:22,343 --> 00:40:28,686
idea, we'll stay with it even when we know it to be false or untrue or incorrect.

506
00:40:28,686 --> 00:40:33,088
And that that's become, people have become more comfortable with it because of the first
thing.

507
00:40:33,088 --> 00:40:38,690
They're not pursuing truth and they don't believe in a higher being where there are
repercussions for

508
00:40:39,820 --> 00:40:42,771
doing the wrong thing or thinking or saying the wrong thing.

509
00:40:43,512 --> 00:40:57,410
I'm very comfortable acknowledging when I'm wrong because I know that there are many
people in the areas that I have the privilege to work in that are much more adept and

510
00:40:57,410 --> 00:41:08,918
knowledgeable in those areas, scientifically, business-wise, um and that I would be
foolish and it would be disingenuous for me not to

511
00:41:08,918 --> 00:41:21,805
rely on them when I know what they're telling me is far better conceived and developed
based on their experience and path than mine is at that time.

512
00:41:22,126 --> 00:41:24,687
But that's a maturity, I think, of self.

513
00:41:24,747 --> 00:41:34,893
It's the good fortune of being around people that are very good at what they do and the
comfort level with realizing that if you're not the smartest guy in the room, that's

514
00:41:34,893 --> 00:41:36,254
probably a good thing.

515
00:41:37,315 --> 00:41:38,936
Well, I don't, here's, here's what I love.

516
00:41:38,936 --> 00:41:40,288
I don't know if it's a good thing.

517
00:41:40,288 --> 00:41:50,216
depends on your role, but what I've come to believe and know and try to act on every day,
I try to walk in a room and find the places where I'm wrong.

518
00:41:51,894 --> 00:41:52,674
I really do.

519
00:41:52,674 --> 00:41:55,496
I am searching for who in this room knows something.

520
00:41:55,496 --> 00:42:02,639
Now I'm going to come in passionate about my area and my expertise and I'm going to
present it to say, this is what I found the best way forward.

521
00:42:02,639 --> 00:42:09,221
But I want someone to raise their hand and say, I've found something different and here's
why, and here's why it's better.

522
00:42:09,801 --> 00:42:13,103
That is what, so I, I don't know.

523
00:42:13,103 --> 00:42:14,493
I don't know if we should be in a room.

524
00:42:14,493 --> 00:42:17,189
I think there's different rooms and I don't want to be contradicting.

525
00:42:17,189 --> 00:42:21,226
I there's different rooms where we do need to be the smartest person, depending on our
role.

526
00:42:21,378 --> 00:42:25,820
But maybe in that same moment, we're open-minded looking for someone else that is more
right.

527
00:42:25,820 --> 00:42:30,792
I don't know what you do with that, but as I process through it, ah but I am looking for
areas every day.

528
00:42:30,792 --> 00:42:39,035
Cause I know the only unlock, whether I figure it out, whether it's through a book, a
podcast, another individual I'm around, if I'm not open-minded as somebody else doing

529
00:42:39,035 --> 00:42:41,338
something better, I can't grow.

530
00:42:41,338 --> 00:42:42,397
I can't improve.

531
00:42:42,397 --> 00:42:45,478
I'm not going to, you, you, you see what my life's going to be today.

532
00:42:45,478 --> 00:42:48,449
This is what this is the best my life's going to be if I'm not willing to grow or learn.

533
00:42:48,449 --> 00:42:51,380
So I don't know what you do with that or what that does, but.

534
00:42:51,426 --> 00:42:57,869
There are times that whether we were the smartest or not, we do need to get people on
board with something to take action to go in a certain direction.

535
00:42:57,869 --> 00:42:58,720
I don't.

536
00:43:00,350 --> 00:43:12,256
So what you just described is, I think, a common element of where people say, you know,
people could say that based on my statement in your response that you and I disagree.

537
00:43:12,677 --> 00:43:21,862
I would say based on listening to you and understanding what I think you're trying to
convey to me, I don't think there's a big difference or any difference in what we both

538
00:43:21,862 --> 00:43:22,478
believe.

539
00:43:22,478 --> 00:43:24,700
I don't think there is, I don't believe so either.

540
00:43:25,662 --> 00:43:29,326
It's expanding on a little bit more saying, is there more depth to this thing?

541
00:43:29,367 --> 00:43:38,888
You know, how do you match humility, the good parts of ego, strengths of leadership, but
at the same time, looking for these spaces where I just don't have it right.

542
00:43:39,052 --> 00:43:46,426
Yeah, I think, you know, my wife is a linguist and she always says, a lot of times the
difference in her thinking, my thinking is semantics.

543
00:43:46,502 --> 00:43:48,307
She just doesn't like the way I said it.

544
00:43:48,387 --> 00:43:50,068
She would have used different words.

545
00:43:50,068 --> 00:44:01,374
She thinks that maybe I, you know, maybe over embellished on something or, know, but at
the end of the day, philosophically, we both believe very much in the same thing.

546
00:44:02,198 --> 00:44:04,740
There's very little difference between her thinking and my thinking.

547
00:44:04,740 --> 00:44:10,403
But she can get very angry with an example I use, even though it's making the very point
that she wanted to make herself.

548
00:44:10,403 --> 00:44:16,486
I've just made it in a way that she doesn't like the graphics or the people I chose to
make the example with.

549
00:44:16,486 --> 00:44:22,409
so that's sometimes it's my failing to recognize that maybe I shouldn't have used that
example.

550
00:44:23,650 --> 00:44:29,415
the communication in some way to make sure that you're taking time to enunciate it and
trying to connect with the other person.

551
00:44:29,415 --> 00:44:32,288
So I'd love to talk for another hour.

552
00:44:32,288 --> 00:44:33,098
This is winding down.

553
00:44:33,098 --> 00:44:38,973
Maybe we do another podcast in the future, but what do you hope to do with these two
places you spend the vast majority of your time?

554
00:44:38,973 --> 00:44:43,387
You said you spend 70 % in one area and 30 % on the other.

555
00:44:43,387 --> 00:44:45,009
What do you hope to do?

556
00:44:45,009 --> 00:44:51,584
Cause I was in a room three weeks ago in New York city with some people who have
tremendous brands.

557
00:44:52,104 --> 00:44:55,437
And there was about 12 or 13 of us in there having dinner, talking over.

558
00:44:55,437 --> 00:44:56,498
It was, it was a good room.

559
00:44:56,498 --> 00:45:01,282
It was a good room where people left their egos and a lot of people grew together and we
learned a lot.

560
00:45:01,282 --> 00:45:09,189
someone said something that's accomplished a lot of things in business that said, I
believe we can only do one great thing at a time.

561
00:45:09,189 --> 00:45:10,590
Not saying I agree with it.

562
00:45:10,590 --> 00:45:16,766
It was a very profound definitive statement that looking at this successful person, you
have to listen and try to understand.

563
00:45:16,766 --> 00:45:19,598
So you're doing two big things.

564
00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:31,610
What are you hoping to accomplish with these two big things over the next year, two years,
three works with both Eureka Connect and the Institute for Biomedical Entrepreneurship?

565
00:45:31,610 --> 00:45:35,210
Because you're a capable guy, but what do you do with those if you're 70 and 30?

566
00:45:35,458 --> 00:45:42,103
Yeah, I think that your colleague or the person you're referring to was right.

567
00:45:42,103 --> 00:45:46,627
I think that the question is, how do you define those one thing?

568
00:45:46,627 --> 00:45:48,749
And I think it's in a moment.

569
00:45:48,749 --> 00:45:55,574
Meaning when I'm working on behavior, if I'm growing up feedback with Mark, in that hour,
that's all I care about.

570
00:45:55,634 --> 00:46:02,679
The quality of what I do with Mark in that moment will dictate what he learns from that
and how he's able to elevate people around him.

571
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,622
So there's an exponential impact that Kurt has.

572
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:10,151
So continuing to advance Eureka to be able to get to more people.

573
00:46:10,151 --> 00:46:13,693
Can we elevate more people who in turn elevate those around them?

574
00:46:13,693 --> 00:46:16,754
That's a pretty powerful objective.

575
00:46:16,754 --> 00:46:28,548
And in doing that, integrating those people with the IBE deal flow, the 250 plus companies
that have gone through the IBE, you elevate the activities around those assets and we'll

576
00:46:28,548 --> 00:46:30,258
get more products to market.

577
00:46:30,442 --> 00:46:39,645
And so doing those in concert, think is necessary to achieve my overall objective, which
is curing more disease and getting more people that are capable of doing that and

578
00:46:39,645 --> 00:46:46,147
advancing those interests and ideas, technically from a business perspective, from a
financial perspective.

579
00:46:46,147 --> 00:46:54,619
And so I've got to train more people to do what I do to scale the activity between the
behavioral side and the entrepreneurial side.

580
00:46:54,619 --> 00:46:57,480
And fortunately, know, the IB has a network of 1200 people.

581
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:58,760
It's not just Kurt.

582
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:06,236
You know, the next call I have right now is with the technology out of California, where
I've got some good friends that are just putting sweat equity into getting the regulatory

583
00:47:06,236 --> 00:47:10,449
strategy right, getting the therapeutics platform outlined.

584
00:47:10,449 --> 00:47:20,357
There's a diagnostic that goes with this project and in getting that all mapped out so
that when we execute that we'll spend every penny wisely and that we'll have success and

585
00:47:20,357 --> 00:47:24,310
we'll get this solution to the market, which will cure a horrific disease.

586
00:47:24,671 --> 00:47:28,826
I'm going to play a relatively small role, but a relative

587
00:47:28,826 --> 00:47:31,510
an extremely important role, I believe, in that path.

588
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:34,664
So that's what I choose to do and hope to continue to do.

589
00:47:34,862 --> 00:47:36,822
Mmm, so good.

590
00:47:37,122 --> 00:47:39,762
Curtis Sprouse, thank you for the 47 minutes.

591
00:47:39,762 --> 00:47:43,042
Maybe we can get another hour and 47 down the road.

592
00:47:43,244 --> 00:47:44,185
Love to do it, Mark.

593
00:47:44,185 --> 00:47:45,876
was great questions, great.

594
00:47:45,876 --> 00:47:53,100
I just love the way you conduct yourself and the way you ask questions and feel privileged
that you and I were able to meet and do this today.

595
00:47:53,100 --> 00:47:53,581
Absolutely.

596
00:47:53,581 --> 00:47:56,607
So it's the best place for them to hitch up on LinkedIn or is there a different website?

597
00:47:56,607 --> 00:47:57,294
What's the best?

598
00:47:57,294 --> 00:48:09,577
um My assistant is um shana at eureka connect.com, s-h-a-n-a at eureka connect.com, and
she can get you on my schedule if people want to talk to me about the behavioral program

599
00:48:09,577 --> 00:48:10,718
or IBE.

600
00:48:10,718 --> 00:48:13,417
um eureka connect.com is our website.

601
00:48:13,417 --> 00:48:15,439
You can contact us through the website there.

602
00:48:15,439 --> 00:48:20,600
And ibeinc.org is for the Institute for Biomedical Entrepreneurship.

603
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,921
Again, you can reach us through that website as well.

604
00:48:22,921 --> 00:48:25,742
multiple ways, LinkedIn, through Shana Reid.

605
00:48:25,742 --> 00:48:27,066
um

606
00:48:27,066 --> 00:48:28,929
Kwok, I'm sorry, she just got married.

607
00:48:28,929 --> 00:48:32,134
So it's K-W-A-A-K Kwok, Shawna Kwok.

608
00:48:32,134 --> 00:48:35,479
So skwok at ureconnect.com also works.

609
00:48:35,479 --> 00:48:37,806
again, Mark, thank you so much.

610
00:48:37,806 --> 00:48:38,306
Thank you.

611
00:48:38,306 --> 00:48:39,506
Have a great rest of your afternoon.

612
00:48:39,506 --> 00:48:41,386
I look forward to catching up more.

613
00:48:41,463 --> 00:48:42,473
Okay, sir.