#179 - The Investing Mistakes That Quietly Destroy Your Wealth: Robert Rolih

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Pessimists sound smart, but optimists make money.

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Welcome back to the necessary entrepreneur.

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Today's guest, if you saw the spelling of the name, you'd say, Mark, come on, get it
right.

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But it's Robert Rolih.

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He's an international bestselling author and long-term investing expert.

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I can't wait till he tells us how to make all the billions.

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And now we're talking about trillions.

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Who's going to be the first trillionaire?

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So Robert grew up in a small village in Savlina where he is joining us today.

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He became a successful entrepreneur and then lost much of his wealth by trusting
traditional financial advisors.

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and so-called gurus.

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That experience sent him on a seven-year research mission into how the financial industry
actually works, the things most investors never hear.

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His book, The Million Dollar Decision, the things most investors never hear, it's what he
learned and why he believes typical investors lose more than a million dollars over their

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careers simply by playing the rigged game of investing.

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So Robert's mission is to make investing simple.

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transparent and effective for busy professionals and entrepreneurs.

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So wow.

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Welcome to the necessary entrepreneur, Robert.

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Thank you for inviting me.

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It's an honor to be here.

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Awesome.

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So you lost a ton of your net worth and wealth.

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I'm sure we could sit here and talk for hours in a cigar lounge having our drinks, but
what's the, I don't know, 30 to second version on how that happened from listening to

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those gurus.

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What happened?

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So I was an entrepreneur.

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uh After five years in business, my company started to produce quite a lot of profits.

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And at that time I was totally financially illiterate.

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So I trusted financial advisors.

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I knew that I should invest, but I didn't know how, so I trusted them.

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And year after year, I gave them almost all of my business profits.

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And after years and years and years of doing that, me and our wife, Sarah, we had a
conversation.

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and she said, Robert, I know that you trust these guys, but maybe just let's check, you
know, where we stand.

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And I ordered all these account statements and when the envelopes arrived, it was like,
what?

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Are there some zeros missing?

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So money that I was investing, uh money for which I was working day and night over
weekends, it was mostly gone.

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And that was a real shocker for me.

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I became depressed.

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lost my motivation to work.

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It was really a dark period.

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the main reason later I found out that the main reason was that my interests as an
investor and their interests uh were not aligned.

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Later I realized that uh they only cared about uh commissions and fees and they didn't
care about uh gains that I will have as an investor.

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So, yeah, their choice of products was poor.

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They also did a lot of short-term trading with my money.

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uh They lost a lot of uh money doing that and so on.

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So it was a very painful experience.

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But also, uh that experience led me uh to start researching what is happening behind the
scenes of the financial industry.

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Because at the time I realized

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I need to get this house in order.

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I need to uh learn on my own what is happening in the investing world.

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So I will be able uh to invest on my own without the help of the financial industry,
without the help of the financial advisors.

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And this is also the basis of my current business.

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now, uh because I learned so much, now I'm in a position to...

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teach others how to avoid making the same mistakes that I did in the beginning of my
investing career.

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Is it easy to lay out what's happening behind the scenes?

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If it took you seven years to learn it and then write the book, The Million Dollar
Decision, can you easily transfer to us what's happening behind the scenes without all the

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nuance?

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Yeah, there are very simple things that you need to understand if you want to get great
returns as an investor.

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oh the biggest revelation that I had was that uh small annual fees that they charge are a
big, big, big problem over the long run.

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So these small fees, for example, 1 % management fee or 2 % management fee that they
charge for their services, or if you are using, for example, mutual funds or many

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different types of investments, you are always incurring these management fees and they
sound small.

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They seem small, like 1 % per year or 2 % per year, but over a long period of time, they
compound.

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and they rob you of your financial future.

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And that was the biggest revelation because one or two percent annual fee can mean 50 or
70 percent fee over the long run.

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And that is something that we uh cannot comprehend because our brains are not meant to
comprehend these things, you know, because this is the effect of compounding over the long

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run.

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And yeah, that was the biggest thing that I learned.

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There were many other things, but that was the major learning point for me.

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Yeah, how can we, I mean, this is your business we're going to touch on today.

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And at the end of 50 minutes, they might run out and buy your book.

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They might connect with you and you might gain some, some new clients and customers.

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But I think what makes this so difficult is, that we're working every day.

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We're so busy in our lives, right?

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We're working, we're spending time with family.

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We don't have enough time to maintain the great life that we all want to live with all the
hours in the day.

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And so how do we do this?

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without finding enough time to become the expert in this field.

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Yeah, that was the challenge also for me because I was an entrepreneur and I never wanted
to learn this stuff because I thought, okay, these experts, these financial advisors, they

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will help me.

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But of course, it turned the other way.

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uh now the core of my business is to simplify things for others, to make investing
accessible.

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to investing simple because one of the quotes from my book says, investing is simple.

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It's the financial industry that works hard to make it complex.

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And uh that is why I'm always trying to simplify things.

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uh for example, my wife, she has a very simple portfolio.

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She is simply investing in two ETFs.

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Let me just explain what ETFs are for maybe some listeners who don't know.

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These are basically baskets of stocks.

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You are investing in ETF, this means that you are investing in a big basket of stocks.

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For example, uh S &P 500.

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You are investing in 500 biggest US companies.

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This is a very simple strategy.

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You are basically exposed to the stock market.

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The stock market has been

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in an uptrend since everything started more than 100 years ago.

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And uh I don't see it stopping anytime soon.

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Why?

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First, because when you invest in companies, companies are building new value, are
creating new value.

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They are innovating.

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They are producing new services, new products.

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And that is why their value is increasing.

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And also the second reason is

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that our governments are in debts and they are constantly printing new money in order to
solve this debt crisis or situation.

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This will not stop anytime soon.

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Because there is more more more money in circulation, of course, it ends up in assets.

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That is why real estate prices over the long run, go up.

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Stock prices over the long run, they go up.

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Gold is going up, everything is going up over the long run because there is more more more
money in circulation.

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So my wife, for example, she's only investing in two ETFs.

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One simple global ETF that is, you this is the exposure to the biggest companies in the
world.

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And the second ETF is technology ETF because technology is uh the future, of course.

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And she is outperforming even Warren Buffett with this simple strategy.

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and she is investing in ETFs that have very, very, very low fees.

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So if you want to be exposed to the stock market and if you want to do it with the lowest
possible cost, then of course the ETFs are the way to go because they charge uh very, very

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small annual fees.

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For example, compared to mutual funds, they have like 10 to 20 times lower fees.

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So ETF fees are almost nothing.

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So you keep

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as an investor, you keep the lion's share or almost all the future returns.

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And of course, if you invest in mutual funds or any other product that has high management
fees, like 1 % per year or 2 % per year, or if you are paying that to your financial

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advisor,

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Then of course, um financial industry will take the lion's share of your future returns.

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So this is the simple strategy that anyone can deploy, especially if you are a busy
professional or an entrepreneur, you don't need to overthink it.

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You just invest in simple ETFs and that's basically it, you know, if you want to really
simplify things.

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Is that as simple?

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we need, do most of us need it that simple?

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It would be best if um somebody who is busy in his business, uh if he or she does that, a
simple strategy.

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Maybe you can add some precious metals to your portfolio.

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Maybe you can add later in life when you are, let's say 60 uh plus, you can add some
bonds.

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um Maybe you can add some Bitcoin because Bitcoin is digital gold, is a new store of
value.

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uh It's for the future generations.

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So right now Bitcoin is acting like a risk-on asset, similar to stocks, but in the future
it will be probably more similar to gold.

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But these are the key uh parts of the portfolio that someone should have.

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And the core of my portfolio is also uh stock index funds.

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stock ETFs.

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Sorry, ETFs are almost the same thing as index funds.

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Do you pick those yourself?

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Do you pretty much put your own ETF together or do you just invest in ones that are
already created?

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Yeah, they are already created.

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As an individual, you cannot create your own ETFs.

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You need to go to buy Vanguard ETFs.

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There are several issuers who are very, very big companies.

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Vanguard was the first company that started issuing ETFs.

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you just stick with one of these big names and that's it.

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That diversifies automatically, right?

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Because what a lot of people are told is diversification, right?

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So it's automatically, if you take the top 500 stocks, because what a guy like Ray Dalio
says, a lot of people look up to him, right?

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I think he talks about these 11 distinct industries or companies that you should invest in
that aren't interconnected at all.

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think I'm correct about that.

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Yeah, and if you are investing in a simple ETF that covers, let's say, &P 500 stocks,
that's more than enough diversification.

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You don't really need to diversify further.

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uh And it's simple and easy.

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So if it's this simple, what else do we need Robert for?

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Let me give you an example.

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uh Last year, 2025, in March and April, the world was on fire.

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Why?

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Because Donald Trump uh announced all these tariffs like liberation day and stuff like
this.

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It was total chaos in the markets and people were panic selling.

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People thought that we are going into recession.

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uh Media was full of headlines, sell everything, this trader is selling everything, this
Wall Street veteran is getting out of the market and so on.

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So people were in panic mode, were panic selling.

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Now, that was the worst time to sell.

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And uh me and my members were heavily buying at the time.

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I issued free buy signals.

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at that moment, know, in this uh one month period when this was happening, I issued free
buy signals and I was telling my members, I'm buying, buying, buying.

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I showed them the screenshots of my purchases and so uh on.

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uh people, we are herd animals.

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And when we see everybody in panic and media telling us to get out of the market and so
on,

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uh A lot of people will be panic selling at the worst possible moment.

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What I give investors is this uh long-term perspective, uh peace of mind, and I try to
inverse the psychology of investing at the current moment.

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When I see problems uh in the markets,

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at that time we are buying.

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And of course, in hindsight, that were the best buying opportunities.

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The same thing, for example, with Bitcoin.

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In 2021, Bitcoin went to 66,000.

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It was a big bull run for Bitcoin.

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Then in the next year, in 2022, it went down 77 % to 16,000 per Bitcoin.

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everybody was panicking.

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Everybody was selling Bitcoin.

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Jim Cramer on CNBC, uh this is a famous financial TV host, he had a show and he said, get
out of Bitcoin while you can.

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And that was in November, 2022.

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At that time, I said, uh exactly one day after that, after that show, I said, this is an
amazing buying opportunity.

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Jim Kramer saying get out of Bitcoin, uh Bitcoin will go to zero.

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It's an amazing buying opportunity.

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And I issued a big buy signal.

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So I was buying at the time and I told my members, I'm buying now Bitcoin.

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This is uh a great contrarian indicator.

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uh Jim Kramer saying that.

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And we're here, it's 5X, it's 5X for you.

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after that Bitcoin went to 120,000 and guess when we were selling?

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We were selling Bitcoin at 120,000, 106,000 and then at 96,000 and now we are out of
Bitcoin because Bitcoin is in a bear trend.

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we were buying...

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Back down to...

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Yes.

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And I think that there is a very high probability...

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that Bitcoin will go much, much, much further down in the coming year because it looks
like it's following the same four-year cycle as it did in the previous 12 years or so.

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Is it because the sellers take their profit off the table?

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Is that why?

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Because it gets to a point where you sell it 120 and 100 and there's not as many buyers to
support the price.

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Is that why?

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I think that one reason, one part of the reason is that Bitcoin is quite a new asset
class.

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It's very young.

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So in the future, it will be digital gold.

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It will be risk of asset, but not yet, not today.

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Today, it's acting like technology stock and even worse than technology stocks.

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uh

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One reason is this, that it's very young and very volatile.

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It's like a teenager.

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One day he's excited and at the top of the world and the next day he's drunk and lying in
bed.

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So this is the nature of Bitcoin.

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And the second reason, of course, is this uh four-year cycle that was happening in the
past because of this halving.

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Every four years...

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the issuance of new bitcoins uh or the mining of new bitcoins uh was basically uh halved.

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So every four years approximately.

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And it was harder to mine bitcoin.

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That means that less and less bitcoin came to the market.

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And uh maybe people got used to this cycle.

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And sometimes when everybody is following a certain cycle,

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00:18:44,502 --> 00:18:46,703
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

220
00:18:46,803 --> 00:18:50,265
So I think it's a combination of these things.

221
00:18:50,265 --> 00:19:02,030
But uh I really don't care what is the reason because it looks like, I said to my members
uh when we were selling, if it looks like a duck, if it looks like a duck, then it's a

222
00:19:02,030 --> 00:19:02,671
duck.

223
00:19:02,671 --> 00:19:09,698
And Bitcoin looks like, even though all the experts were saying Bitcoin is now in a super
cycle.

224
00:19:09,698 --> 00:19:16,104
Bitcoin, forget about the four year cycle from the past because now it's an institutional
asset.

225
00:19:16,104 --> 00:19:19,767
Big banks are investing, countries are investing and so on.

226
00:19:19,827 --> 00:19:29,275
But I said, the chart is saying something and I'm looking at the chart and I don't care if
institutions are investing.

227
00:19:29,396 --> 00:19:33,420
I'm just looking at the chart and I see that the same pattern is repeating.

228
00:19:33,420 --> 00:19:35,662
So I'm getting out of Bitcoin and that's it.

229
00:19:35,662 --> 00:19:36,582
uh

230
00:19:36,814 --> 00:19:40,094
It's wild and looking at gold, think it was at 4,600 or something.

231
00:19:40,094 --> 00:19:41,282
It's crazy.

232
00:19:41,282 --> 00:19:43,534
Yeah, Gold did an amazing run.

233
00:19:43,534 --> 00:19:57,174
you know, it's very funny because all these boomers who are sitting on their portfolios uh
that have a lot of gold and silver are now laughing at crypto guys.

234
00:19:57,655 --> 00:19:58,066
are.

235
00:19:58,066 --> 00:19:58,246
Yes.

236
00:19:58,246 --> 00:19:58,816
It's funny.

237
00:19:58,816 --> 00:20:01,638
uh

238
00:20:03,706 --> 00:20:08,608
Yeah, also gold, you know, it's an amazing uh asset class.

239
00:20:08,608 --> 00:20:14,351
Right now it's doing a great, great, great bull run, but you need to be very careful.

240
00:20:14,351 --> 00:20:20,693
uh I personally am now uh gradually exiting gold.

241
00:20:20,693 --> 00:20:21,374
Why?

242
00:20:21,374 --> 00:20:32,038
Because gold historically had these short periods of huge growth, price growth, but then
when it cools down, can...

243
00:20:32,334 --> 00:20:37,034
it can have zero or negative returns for the next 10 or 15 years.

244
00:20:37,254 --> 00:20:39,014
So I am very careful now.

245
00:20:39,014 --> 00:20:43,814
I had a lot of gold also as an investment in my portfolio.

246
00:20:44,434 --> 00:20:48,854
And I was buying in 2022, 2023, then I stopped.

247
00:20:48,854 --> 00:20:57,054
And now I'm gradually selling gold because this bull run will end at one point in time.

248
00:20:57,054 --> 00:21:00,938
We don't know when, but you know...

249
00:21:00,938 --> 00:21:09,766
and I don't see uh very good risk versus reward for gold now.

250
00:21:09,807 --> 00:21:20,708
I saw that a couple of years ago, but now, of course, it's a totally different story
because you don't want to get into an S of class when it already had this kind of huge

251
00:21:20,708 --> 00:21:21,418
run.

252
00:21:22,082 --> 00:21:25,989
So that's what isn't this key, what everybody's trying to time it.

253
00:21:25,989 --> 00:21:29,155
The less sophisticated investor is trying to time the market.

254
00:21:29,155 --> 00:21:35,656
Does that lead into this idea that you believe and you've seen over time that investors,
lose half their gains over time.

255
00:21:36,408 --> 00:21:43,724
Yeah, if you are just trying constantly to get in and out of the market, uh you will not
be successful as an investor.

256
00:21:43,765 --> 00:21:45,487
I'm a long-term investor.

257
00:21:45,487 --> 00:21:49,911
Sometimes I do an intervention in my portfolio like I did for Bitcoin.

258
00:21:49,911 --> 00:21:59,199
But you know, I was accumulating Bitcoin, uh let's say, three years ago, and now I exited
it, you know, after three years.

259
00:21:59,199 --> 00:22:02,286
But I didn't trade Bitcoin in between.

260
00:22:02,286 --> 00:22:07,426
I didn't go like every week in and then out and in and out and in and out.

261
00:22:07,426 --> 00:22:09,766
This is a fool's errand.

262
00:22:09,826 --> 00:22:17,066
You will never have great returns if you are trying to swing trade or day trade or
something like this.

263
00:22:17,406 --> 00:22:27,126
first, there is less than 1 % of profitable short-term traders in the world, less than 1%.

264
00:22:27,126 --> 00:22:31,406
And it's only a game for professionals.

265
00:22:32,012 --> 00:22:36,885
these high-speed trading computers and systems and so on.

266
00:22:36,885 --> 00:22:38,966
So you cannot compete with that.

267
00:22:39,086 --> 00:22:53,554
And also you need to account for your time and psychology, you know, because when you are
trying to shorten trade the markets, um you will spend a lot of time doing it.

268
00:22:53,554 --> 00:22:59,257
And when you are calculating your ROI, return on investment, you need to calculate also
your time.

269
00:22:59,257 --> 00:23:01,070
You need to account for your time.

270
00:23:01,070 --> 00:23:03,991
uh Short-term traders are not doing that.

271
00:23:04,012 --> 00:23:10,416
They are sitting behind their trading desks all the time, like 12 hours per day.

272
00:23:10,416 --> 00:23:13,077
They are nervous all the time.

273
00:23:14,458 --> 00:23:17,760
Their health is deteriorating.

274
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:28,436
um It's not healthy being a short-term trader, you know, and they don't account for all
these costs, time and their health and peace of mind.

275
00:23:28,436 --> 00:23:31,051
when they are doing the ROI calculations.

276
00:23:31,051 --> 00:23:38,585
So even if you are profitable as a short-term trader, usually when you account for all
these things, you are deeply in minus.

277
00:23:39,116 --> 00:23:39,727
Yeah.

278
00:23:39,727 --> 00:23:42,348
So you touched on the high speed trading.

279
00:23:42,408 --> 00:23:48,102
I'd like to dip our toes in here into these dark forces um in Wall Street that most people
don't know about.

280
00:23:48,102 --> 00:23:50,064
I'm assuming the high speed trading is one of them.

281
00:23:50,064 --> 00:23:50,954
don't know.

282
00:23:51,766 --> 00:23:58,288
Yeah, short-term trading is one of my six dark forces of investing.

283
00:23:58,288 --> 00:24:01,789
So the first one is the commission camouflage effect.

284
00:24:01,789 --> 00:24:11,731
So this is small fees, small annual fees uh seem harmless, but over time they eat away at
a massive portion of your returns.

285
00:24:11,731 --> 00:24:16,953
So this was the first uh dark force and I was already talking about this.

286
00:24:16,953 --> 00:24:21,890
And then uh one of them is also this short-term trading

287
00:24:21,890 --> 00:24:24,071
game that you cannot win.

288
00:24:25,052 --> 00:24:29,534
Then another dark force is the lure of the shiny next big thing.

289
00:24:29,614 --> 00:24:34,937
So investors are constantly tempted by hyped up trends or hot tips.

290
00:24:34,937 --> 00:24:38,339
For example, quantum computing.

291
00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:43,001
Six months ago, everybody was talking about quantum computing.

292
00:24:43,001 --> 00:24:46,003
And then of course, the collapse happened.

293
00:24:46,003 --> 00:24:47,804
And I think it's not over yet.

294
00:24:47,804 --> 00:24:51,662
The quantum computing, all these companies are

295
00:24:51,662 --> 00:25:05,434
uh are pre-revenue, they have no revenue, they have losses, they have terrible balance
sheets, and very few of them will survive in the next five to 10 years.

296
00:25:05,434 --> 00:25:09,858
And this technology is still 10 years away, know, commercial application.

297
00:25:09,858 --> 00:25:19,926
um So yeah, people want to buy the next uh big shiny thing, but usually they are too late.

298
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,598
So these were just a few of these dark forces.

299
00:25:23,598 --> 00:25:25,775
Yeah, one's the darkest?

300
00:25:25,775 --> 00:25:27,570
Which of the six dark forces?

301
00:25:27,570 --> 00:25:29,174
Which one's the darkest?

302
00:25:30,670 --> 00:25:32,370
Yeah, I would say commissions.

303
00:25:32,370 --> 00:25:37,630
I would say commissions and fees because you don't see them or you don't understand them.

304
00:25:37,630 --> 00:25:49,170
So if we have a of minutes, I can give you a concrete example of these small fees and what
they do to your portfolio.

305
00:25:49,990 --> 00:25:52,230
So if you are okay with that.

306
00:25:54,210 --> 00:26:00,302
So for example, if you pay a 1 % management fee to your

307
00:26:00,302 --> 00:26:02,402
financial advisor or fund.

308
00:26:02,402 --> 00:26:06,742
It may sound small, but it's not just this fee that you lose.

309
00:26:06,742 --> 00:26:12,422
You also lose all the growth that that money could have made for you over time.

310
00:26:12,922 --> 00:26:16,262
And let's look at the, let's look at the simple example.

311
00:26:16,402 --> 00:26:19,802
Let's say that your portfolio is worth 100,000.

312
00:26:19,802 --> 00:26:20,602
Okay.

313
00:26:20,682 --> 00:26:28,558
Now 1 % fee means that you pay 1000 in the first year and that 1000 is not only gone,

314
00:26:28,558 --> 00:26:30,978
it's no longer growing for you.

315
00:26:30,978 --> 00:26:41,498
So for example, if the market grows about, let's say, 8 % per year, that 1,000 could have
turned into more than 10,000 over 30 years.

316
00:26:41,498 --> 00:26:44,338
And that's just from one year of fees.

317
00:26:44,358 --> 00:26:53,538
So if you account for all these fees over 30 years spent, for example, the total cost is
over 120,000 in lost growth.

318
00:26:53,538 --> 00:26:56,958
And that's more than your current portfolio value.

319
00:26:57,066 --> 00:27:02,448
So a 1 % fee doesn't really cost you 1,000 a year.

320
00:27:02,448 --> 00:27:08,249
It can cost you your financial freedom or delay your retirement by three to 10 years.

321
00:27:08,270 --> 00:27:11,591
And that's the thing that most people don't realize.

322
00:27:11,591 --> 00:27:17,452
And that is why I think that these fees are the biggest dark forces.

323
00:27:17,452 --> 00:27:21,954
This is like Darth Vader of investing.

324
00:27:23,288 --> 00:27:31,883
The, um, where do you think, go back to when you were an entrepreneur, when you started
your businesses, you probably weren't thinking about investing yet.

325
00:27:31,883 --> 00:27:35,845
You were thinking about making a profit on the current business.

326
00:27:35,845 --> 00:27:40,518
at what, at what moment should someone start thinking about investing?

327
00:27:40,518 --> 00:27:43,470
It's probably different based on the country that they're in.

328
00:27:43,470 --> 00:27:51,304
Axel alls, do they have 401ks and IRAs like we have, but when should they start thinking
about investing?

329
00:27:52,588 --> 00:27:56,020
Well, as soon as possible, but not too soon.

330
00:27:56,060 --> 00:27:59,442
So first you need to think about increasing your income.

331
00:27:59,442 --> 00:28:16,871
Because uh if you invest very, very, let's say small amounts of money each month or each
quarter or each year, then it will take you like 178 years to reach some kind of financial

332
00:28:16,871 --> 00:28:22,124
freedom or big enough portfolio to give you peace of mind.

333
00:28:22,124 --> 00:28:31,161
So the first thing that you need to do in your career is to think about increasing your
income.

334
00:28:31,321 --> 00:28:38,906
And this allows you uh to have, uh let's say, a lot of money to invest.

335
00:28:40,228 --> 00:28:48,206
So when you have a lot of money to invest, but this a lot, know, it's of course different
for each person, but let's say,

336
00:28:48,206 --> 00:28:55,826
that you reach a point where you can invest, let's say, 20 % of your annual income.

337
00:28:56,566 --> 00:28:59,266
That's a perfect way to start.

338
00:28:59,726 --> 00:29:08,826
So you should always live below your means because otherwise you cannot invest anything.

339
00:29:09,286 --> 00:29:16,654
But yeah, first you need to increase your income and then you can invest larger amounts of
money.

340
00:29:16,654 --> 00:29:25,474
And this, of course, will give you more financial power and your investments, of course,
will then bring you more and more profit.

341
00:29:25,976 --> 00:29:31,111
you're making an argument if somebody makes 50,000 US dollars, if they should invest 8%,
that's $4,000.

342
00:29:31,111 --> 00:29:33,534
Right?

343
00:29:33,534 --> 00:29:41,706
And so if you're like, wow, I don't have 4,000 in my budget, your argument would be then
find somewhere to make an extra $4,000.

344
00:29:41,774 --> 00:29:55,294
Yeah, so maybe at first invest this 4,000 into learning new stuff, into improving your
money-making skills.

345
00:29:55,494 --> 00:30:07,374
Try to learn more about, I don't know, marketing, selling, communicating, maybe public
speaking, maybe negotiating, leadership.

346
00:30:07,374 --> 00:30:11,294
So you need to have these business skills.

347
00:30:11,358 --> 00:30:16,120
Even if you are employed somewhere, you need these business skills to increase your
income.

348
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:23,984
Because let's say that you are a programmer somewhere, you are programming stuff, you are
some kind of engineer or whatever.

349
00:30:24,164 --> 00:30:36,270
If you know a bit about marketing and selling, then you become much, much, much more
valuable because you are able to get your ideas across.

350
00:30:36,406 --> 00:30:41,489
People will understand what is your value that you are bringing to the table.

351
00:30:41,489 --> 00:30:45,671
You will be able to negotiate better for a higher salary.

352
00:30:45,671 --> 00:30:54,896
You will be able to present stuff to people and this will increase your value for the
company where you are working.

353
00:30:54,917 --> 00:31:00,420
And of course, it will give you more power to negotiate your salary.

354
00:31:00,420 --> 00:31:04,810
So yeah, this, uh let's say,

355
00:31:04,810 --> 00:31:10,315
soft skills or business skills are super important in our lives.

356
00:31:10,315 --> 00:31:14,758
For example, when I started in my first business, I was still a student.

357
00:31:14,758 --> 00:31:17,780
I started my first business in a student dorm.

358
00:31:17,821 --> 00:31:24,946
And at that time I had no clue about business, of course, but uh I was an avid reader.

359
00:31:25,207 --> 00:31:29,102
I was reading business books all the time at that time.

360
00:31:29,102 --> 00:31:43,748
uh I was visiting the library all the time and reading these practical business books on
how to sell, how to market your business, how to run your business and similar books.

361
00:31:43,928 --> 00:31:52,111
because I learned a lot of stuff from these books at that time that there was, uh this was
before the year 2000.

362
00:31:52,111 --> 00:31:58,698
So there was not a lot of resources online and I needed books, you so I read a lot of
books.

363
00:31:58,698 --> 00:32:12,766
and this was uh very beneficial for my career because I learned a lot of stuff and I was
able to quickly increase uh the income and profits of my company.

364
00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:17,905
When do you think someone has enough money to really start making an impact?

365
00:32:17,905 --> 00:32:24,712
How much in an investment count do you really feel that when you have this amount, you
really have something to play with.

366
00:32:26,624 --> 00:32:30,975
I think that you need to get to above a million.

367
00:32:30,975 --> 00:32:34,836
Above a million should be the first goal.

368
00:32:34,936 --> 00:32:44,839
Now, of course, I also started with less, but over time, of course, I accumulated more and
more more money.

369
00:32:45,099 --> 00:32:52,121
And the game of investing becomes really enjoyable when your portfolio is above a million.

370
00:32:52,121 --> 00:32:54,342
uh

371
00:32:54,362 --> 00:32:55,502
can feel it.

372
00:32:55,502 --> 00:33:10,042
Yeah, because for example, if the last two years were amazing for investors, because the
market grew more than 20 % per year, know, and so if you have a 1 million portfolio, a

373
00:33:10,042 --> 00:33:11,342
million five million.

374
00:33:11,442 --> 00:33:15,502
Yeah, this is 1.5 million in two years.

375
00:33:15,502 --> 00:33:18,702
And you can really feel the growth.

376
00:33:19,062 --> 00:33:20,906
Now, of course, don't get me wrong.

377
00:33:20,906 --> 00:33:29,073
It will not be 20 % plus every single year because this last couple of years were
exceptional years.

378
00:33:29,073 --> 00:33:33,456
So as an investor, you also need to be prepared for down years.

379
00:33:33,677 --> 00:33:43,625
Sometimes you can have a year where your portfolio will be minus, where we will have like
minus 15%, minus 20%.

380
00:33:43,625 --> 00:33:45,246
This will happen.

381
00:33:45,366 --> 00:33:48,449
It also happened a lot of years in the past.

382
00:33:48,449 --> 00:33:50,368
So as a long-term investor,

383
00:33:50,368 --> 00:33:54,210
you should develop this long-term philosophy.

384
00:33:54,210 --> 00:33:59,122
I don't really care what will happen next year or the year after that.

385
00:33:59,122 --> 00:34:06,145
I only care that over the long run, for example, 10 plus years, I will have amazing
returns.

386
00:34:07,506 --> 00:34:09,667
This is the most important thing.

387
00:34:16,726 --> 00:34:21,115
Don't think that every single year will be super profitable, because it won't be.

388
00:34:21,157 --> 00:34:23,641
You need to be prepared for all sorts of down years.

389
00:34:23,797 --> 00:34:30,361
So looking back on your journey, what's one decision, a lot of people ask us these
questions.

390
00:34:30,361 --> 00:34:38,546
think this is important for context, but what's one decision you made in this investing
journey that turned out to be your million dollar decision?

391
00:34:38,546 --> 00:34:40,127
Cause you wrote the book.

392
00:34:40,387 --> 00:34:43,859
So did you have a million dollar decision?

393
00:34:44,823 --> 00:34:47,534
Yeah.

394
00:34:47,534 --> 00:34:50,476
I will give you two, a combination of two decisions.

395
00:34:50,476 --> 00:34:58,259
The first decision was to only invest in low fee products or low cost products like ETFs.

396
00:34:58,259 --> 00:35:05,302
So previously I was investing also, I was mostly investing in mutual funds and other stuff
that had high fees.

397
00:35:05,302 --> 00:35:09,384
So the first decision was uh low fee products.

398
00:35:09,944 --> 00:35:14,124
The second decision was to stay away from short-term trading.

399
00:35:14,124 --> 00:35:24,302
because I lost an arm and a leg short-term trading because these advisors and gurus were
invested, were also short-term trading with my money.

400
00:35:24,302 --> 00:35:38,872
uh I was still young at that time and I was a bit too aggressive and I also tried
short-term trading on my own.

401
00:35:39,854 --> 00:35:40,738
that was...

402
00:35:40,738 --> 00:35:41,889
That was not a good idea.

403
00:35:41,889 --> 00:35:45,882
this was the second decision.

404
00:35:45,882 --> 00:35:49,585
Stop everything connected to short-term trading.

405
00:35:49,786 --> 00:35:55,530
And these two decisions in combination were my million dollar decisions.

406
00:35:56,312 --> 00:36:05,486
So since you're both an entrepreneur and now an entrepreneur in the investing world, how
should entrepreneurs, because that's just a ton of the world, but how should

407
00:36:05,486 --> 00:36:11,068
entrepreneurs, how should they think about aligning their business growth and long-term
financial planning?

408
00:36:11,068 --> 00:36:14,209
Like not just surviving year over year and paying the bills.

409
00:36:14,209 --> 00:36:17,480
How should they align that growth with their long-term planning?

410
00:36:19,116 --> 00:36:25,728
Yeah, as an entrepreneur, you always need to uh think about the risks.

411
00:36:26,148 --> 00:36:35,691
So for example, uh if something happens to your business, um it's not good to have all the
eggs in one basket.

412
00:36:35,691 --> 00:36:41,052
So a lot of entrepreneurs, they invest everything in their own business.

413
00:36:41,932 --> 00:36:44,273
And they think that nothing can happen.

414
00:36:44,273 --> 00:36:48,734
But we saw, know, a lot of businesses went down.

415
00:36:48,968 --> 00:36:50,599
because of AI.

416
00:36:50,819 --> 00:37:02,450
lot of businesses went out uh business because there was some kind of competition coming
that they didn't see uh and so on.

417
00:37:02,450 --> 00:37:15,981
So as an entrepreneur, uh try to, of course, you are investing in your own business,
that's perfectly fine, but you should always uh keep in mind that it's a good idea to

418
00:37:15,981 --> 00:37:17,492
diversify a bit.

419
00:37:17,492 --> 00:37:29,399
and to also invest part of your profits into financial markets, for example, in the stock
market, because this is how uh you have peace of mind.

420
00:37:29,399 --> 00:37:43,737
even if something bad happens to your business, something that you cannot foresee, ah you
will sleep better if you have an uh investment portfolio outside of your business.

421
00:37:43,737 --> 00:37:45,077
So that's one.

422
00:37:46,638 --> 00:37:50,636
uh guideline that I always give to entrepreneurs.

423
00:37:50,764 --> 00:37:51,588
Hmm.

424
00:37:51,588 --> 00:37:52,480
The, ah

425
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:59,254
Of course you will not start investing when your business is a startup because you don't
have money.

426
00:37:59,254 --> 00:38:05,838
But when it becomes profitable, when it becomes more mature, then of course it's time to
diversify.

427
00:38:06,924 --> 00:38:08,454
What, what excites you?

428
00:38:08,454 --> 00:38:10,495
have passion for this industry.

429
00:38:10,495 --> 00:38:10,995
Yes.

430
00:38:10,995 --> 00:38:11,355
Yes.

431
00:38:11,355 --> 00:38:22,118
You had gurus who took your, invested your money wrong and you lost a lot of it, but seven
years later through that journey and all this time in this, what's still excite you about

432
00:38:22,118 --> 00:38:22,688
this business?

433
00:38:22,688 --> 00:38:23,619
You're smile.

434
00:38:23,619 --> 00:38:24,289
You're excited.

435
00:38:24,289 --> 00:38:25,779
You have all this passion.

436
00:38:25,779 --> 00:38:26,890
Uh, where does that come from?

437
00:38:26,890 --> 00:38:28,150
Why, why are you still excited?

438
00:38:28,150 --> 00:38:32,501
Because now in this tech and AI world, this stuff is moving so fast.

439
00:38:33,514 --> 00:38:35,022
It's hard to keep up.

440
00:38:35,022 --> 00:38:36,202
What excites you?

441
00:38:37,722 --> 00:38:39,744
My clients, my members.

442
00:38:39,744 --> 00:38:43,527
This is uh something that I really like to do.

443
00:38:43,527 --> 00:38:44,828
I like to help them.

444
00:38:44,828 --> 00:38:46,569
I like to answer their questions.

445
00:38:46,569 --> 00:38:49,291
I like to give them support.

446
00:38:49,571 --> 00:38:58,719
And sometimes when they send me thank you emails and stuff like this, it's really an
amazing thing to read these things.

447
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,700
Let me just give you one example.

448
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,732
I have a member from Australia.

449
00:39:03,752 --> 00:39:07,802
who joined in 2018.

450
00:39:07,802 --> 00:39:13,090
uh He started to uh invest around the year 2000.

451
00:39:13,090 --> 00:39:16,422
Then the financial crisis hit in 2008.

452
00:39:17,073 --> 00:39:19,834
His portfolio went down sharply, course, like 50%.

453
00:39:19,834 --> 00:39:25,310
At that time, he was so scared that he sold everything.

454
00:39:25,310 --> 00:39:33,422
Then after the financial crisis was solved, uh he started to read all these doomsday
books.

455
00:39:33,422 --> 00:39:40,924
uh from authors that are always scaring people about the next recession and the end of the
world and so on.

456
00:39:40,924 --> 00:39:47,947
So he didn't get back into the markets uh since 2008 when he joined my course.

457
00:39:47,947 --> 00:39:50,137
And then he told me his story.

458
00:39:50,137 --> 00:39:59,278
He said, because I was reading all these negative books, all these doomsday books, um I
stopped investing.

459
00:39:59,278 --> 00:40:06,138
I took all the money and I put it into four different banks so that I would be really
safe.

460
00:40:07,058 --> 00:40:11,198
He had more than one million Australian dollars.

461
00:40:11,298 --> 00:40:15,857
He put all that money into different banks and he was just sitting in cash.

462
00:40:16,178 --> 00:40:17,438
He never invested.

463
00:40:17,438 --> 00:40:22,982
Then he said in 2018 when he joined my course, he

464
00:40:23,310 --> 00:40:30,756
Robert, uh you changed my life because you uh always think positively about the world.

465
00:40:30,756 --> 00:40:35,499
You always think that the world tomorrow will be better than it is today.

466
00:40:35,759 --> 00:40:39,602
And I was doing it wrong for the last 10 years.

467
00:40:39,602 --> 00:40:47,267
So he missed out on let's say 300 % gain on his money because he was sitting in cash and
because he was scared.

468
00:40:47,267 --> 00:40:51,442
uh what I try to do...

469
00:40:51,442 --> 00:40:58,964
with my listeners, with my members, is to give them the positive perspective about the
future of the world.

470
00:40:58,964 --> 00:41:04,826
uh The world is full of entrepreneurs who are solving difficult problems.

471
00:41:04,866 --> 00:41:08,707
And uh there are a lot of innovators out there.

472
00:41:08,707 --> 00:41:10,808
There are a lot of new technologies out there.

473
00:41:10,808 --> 00:41:15,509
But because of all that, the world tomorrow will be better than it is today.

474
00:41:15,509 --> 00:41:19,050
Because if you take a look at history, uh

475
00:41:19,050 --> 00:41:29,454
We have never in the history of humankind, we had such a great living standard for the
masses, for most of the people.

476
00:41:29,454 --> 00:41:37,037
We never had uh so few people who are living in poverty.

477
00:41:37,217 --> 00:41:44,480
We have the best world in the history of our planet.

478
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,142
And I don't know why this should stop.

479
00:41:48,786 --> 00:41:56,588
If for hundreds and hundreds of years the world was getting better and better and better,
I don't know why it should stop now.

480
00:41:56,588 --> 00:42:02,610
So I always have this positive um outlook on the world.

481
00:42:02,610 --> 00:42:14,013
I'm always saying, this is like a famous adage for investing, uh pessimists sound smart,
but optimists make money.

482
00:42:14,373 --> 00:42:16,814
And that's the truth.

483
00:42:17,940 --> 00:42:21,320
So Robert Rolih is the optimist of investing.

484
00:42:24,479 --> 00:42:28,575
Um, what, um, you think you're going to be doing this for the rest of your life?

485
00:42:28,575 --> 00:42:30,452
Is this the, is this your journey?

486
00:42:30,452 --> 00:42:34,046
Yeah, I am 17 years old right now.

487
00:42:34,046 --> 00:42:41,432
uh So yeah, I think that I will be doing this for decades and decades.

488
00:42:41,794 --> 00:42:49,461
And I never planned to retire because I would be bored to death, like retiring, I don't
see myself as retired.

489
00:42:49,461 --> 00:42:54,806
So I hope that I will be healthy for as long as possible and that I will be able to do
this for.

490
00:42:55,230 --> 00:42:56,172
a lot of time.

491
00:42:56,172 --> 00:43:07,873
And maybe the innovators will find some way to upload our consciousness into some kind of
cloud so we will be able to live even hours before something.

492
00:43:08,076 --> 00:43:11,452
What, um, so with, AI happening, there's a lot of chatter.

493
00:43:11,452 --> 00:43:15,349
Everybody's talking about it, but what are the real applications?

494
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:19,496
you think that are real practical about AI for investing?

495
00:43:21,466 --> 00:43:23,247
AI for investing.

496
00:43:25,530 --> 00:43:39,161
I don't think that you need a lot of AI for investing because if you are just following a
simple ETF strategy, don't know, I don't see AI giving you some additional valuable stuff.

497
00:43:39,161 --> 00:43:45,698
uh Yeah, it can help you maybe uh fine tune your portfolio, maybe...

498
00:43:45,698 --> 00:43:50,642
to give you some risk warnings if you are doing something wrong or something like this.

499
00:43:50,642 --> 00:43:52,683
um I don't know.

500
00:43:52,683 --> 00:44:01,310
uh It's just because like I said, investing is so simple that you really don't need
financial industry and Wall Street helping you.

501
00:44:01,310 --> 00:44:07,464
uh You don't need a lot of AI tools helping you because it's so simple.

502
00:44:08,443 --> 00:44:11,385
So what about people borrowing against their assets?

503
00:44:11,385 --> 00:44:12,446
What about that?

504
00:44:12,446 --> 00:44:16,989
Whether they're borrowing against a real estate asset, whether it's against a stock.

505
00:44:17,209 --> 00:44:18,420
What about that?

506
00:44:19,212 --> 00:44:24,506
Yeah, Ray Dalio used to say, cash is trash.

507
00:44:24,527 --> 00:44:31,172
yeah, sometimes it's not a bad idea to borrow against your assets, you so if you know what
you are doing, of course.

508
00:44:31,292 --> 00:44:35,356
Of course, you should never borrow money in order to invest.

509
00:44:35,356 --> 00:44:41,060
If you are now out of money, you should never borrow money to invest because this can be
very dangerous.

510
00:44:41,081 --> 00:44:47,526
But if you already have real estate, if you already have different assets in your
portfolio,

511
00:44:47,646 --> 00:44:55,193
then of course if you know what you are doing, sure you can do that, you but only if you
know what you're doing.

512
00:44:56,175 --> 00:45:01,808
Is that maybe the error that it's what happened to you and what happens to so many people?

513
00:45:01,808 --> 00:45:03,380
We don't know what we're doing.

514
00:45:03,970 --> 00:45:05,330
Yeah, we don't know.

515
00:45:05,330 --> 00:45:12,952
And when I was starting my investing career, the problem was that I didn't know that I
don't know what I'm doing.

516
00:45:13,553 --> 00:45:15,493
So this is the issue.

517
00:45:15,493 --> 00:45:26,086
And it's like with commissions and fees that you are paying, most people don't realize
that they are paying these commissions and they don't understand the effect of small

518
00:45:26,086 --> 00:45:29,497
commissions over the long run on your portfolio.

519
00:45:29,557 --> 00:45:31,608
yeah, this is the...

520
00:45:31,608 --> 00:45:34,003
cost of not knowing things.

521
00:45:34,003 --> 00:45:43,438
And that is why the first thing that you need to do as an investor is to learn a lot of
stuff ah so that you understand these things.

522
00:45:43,438 --> 00:45:45,418
Is that what your platform's really doing?

523
00:45:45,418 --> 00:45:50,562
Is it setting out to help people learn, to grow, to understand, to become a better
investor?

524
00:45:50,562 --> 00:45:51,402
Yeah.

525
00:45:52,003 --> 00:46:07,109
So when I, when I, uh, after I started to invest on my own and I became very successful
doing it, then I realized after several years of doing that, I realized that, most

526
00:46:07,109 --> 00:46:14,092
entrepreneurs, most busy professionals have the same problems that I had earlier in my
career.

527
00:46:14,172 --> 00:46:18,862
And that was the reason why I started this company.

528
00:46:18,862 --> 00:46:33,512
uh why I became an investing educator and why I created my investing course program and
why I'm doing all this stuff, why I wrote the book and so on.

529
00:46:33,918 --> 00:46:35,810
So where's the best place for them to come find you?

530
00:46:35,810 --> 00:46:42,366
I'm sure the social media channels on LinkedIn, but what's the one best place they can
come and look at your course and find you and follow you.

531
00:46:43,842 --> 00:46:46,734
The best first step would be to go to my website.

532
00:46:46,734 --> 00:46:48,156
It's a very simple URL.

533
00:46:48,156 --> 00:46:50,578
It's just my name and surname.com.

534
00:46:50,578 --> 00:46:56,493
So it's robertroelich.com.

535
00:46:56,493 --> 00:47:02,999
And there you will see I am running a free online masterclass.

536
00:47:02,999 --> 00:47:11,714
It's a 90-minute masterclass for long-term investors where I share my uh current outlook
on the markets.

537
00:47:11,714 --> 00:47:24,827
where I share how to invest in the age of AI and excessive money printing and how to use
this reverse psychology uh in investing to get really good gains.

538
00:47:24,827 --> 00:47:29,522
So how to go against the herd sometimes and get great gains.

539
00:47:29,522 --> 00:47:32,404
So yeah, I really recommend this as a first step.

540
00:47:32,494 --> 00:47:40,759
So go, so go to your website, but two things I think I took away today is buy ETFs and
also be a buyer when there's blood in the water.

541
00:47:40,759 --> 00:47:43,694
I think we know someone else that made that statement back in the day.

542
00:47:43,694 --> 00:47:44,442
Yeah.

543
00:47:44,442 --> 00:47:44,942
Yeah.

544
00:47:44,942 --> 00:47:45,262
Yeah.

545
00:47:45,262 --> 00:47:46,348
I think that was a Warren Buffett.

546
00:47:46,348 --> 00:47:47,564
I'm pretty sure that's who said that.

547
00:47:47,564 --> 00:47:51,726
Um, when everybody else is scared, that's what the opportunity is.

548
00:47:53,420 --> 00:47:54,230
Yeah.

549
00:47:54,292 --> 00:48:04,590
And he said something like, when also when the taxi drivers are recommending you some
investments, it's time to get out.

550
00:48:06,606 --> 00:48:09,459
And when there's blood in the streets, that's when you buy.

551
00:48:10,614 --> 00:48:12,171
Yeah, that's what like.

552
00:48:12,812 --> 00:48:14,083
and buy some ETFs.

553
00:48:14,083 --> 00:48:15,184
Robert Rolih, thank you.

554
00:48:15,184 --> 00:48:17,154
I think you're going to get some people to hit the website.

555
00:48:17,154 --> 00:48:18,147
I'm going to go check it out.

556
00:48:18,147 --> 00:48:24,793
ah I love when people learn some hard lessons and they want to go out and share it with
the world and they build a business from that.

557
00:48:24,793 --> 00:48:26,712
So thank you for sharing this with us.

558
00:48:26,712 --> 00:48:29,039
Thank you for inviting me, it was a pleasure.