#173 - Why Becoming More Human Matters in an Age of AI: Dinakara Nagalla

1
00:00:00,078 --> 00:00:03,898
I'm not trying to solve a problem in a month or two months.

2
00:00:03,898 --> 00:00:10,740
I'm here for long game and I want to make sure I do this right and make it truly a
game-changing tool.

3
00:00:31,758 --> 00:00:37,438
Today's guest, you know, beforehand, there's names that are a little more difficult for me
to pronounce, he's got a cool one.

4
00:00:37,438 --> 00:00:38,958
I still try to get it right.

5
00:00:38,958 --> 00:00:40,561
it's Dinakara Nagalla

6
00:00:40,561 --> 00:00:41,684
Yes, there you go.

7
00:00:41,684 --> 00:00:42,215
Yeah.

8
00:00:42,215 --> 00:00:47,780
uh He's a technologist, a human centered AI architect and author of Becoming Human.

9
00:00:47,780 --> 00:00:49,501
I'm pumped to talk about this book.

10
00:00:49,501 --> 00:00:55,115
Dittacar has spent decades building AI enabled systems, I said decades, that don't just
scale.

11
00:00:55,115 --> 00:00:57,948
They remember, they trust and they serve people.

12
00:00:57,948 --> 00:01:03,593
His perspective challenges the tech world to design with soul and purpose, not just
efficiency.

13
00:01:03,593 --> 00:01:12,159
And today we're talking about technology that supports human growth, not replaces it and
what it really means to lead with integrity in an age of rapid change.

14
00:01:16,015 --> 00:01:18,853
So, boy, this world of rapid change,

15
00:01:19,456 --> 00:01:25,242
We are in the world of rapid change and it's very interesting to see how things are going
to go.

16
00:01:26,277 --> 00:01:27,682
What, what about your book?

17
00:01:27,682 --> 00:01:29,147
I love the title.

18
00:01:29,147 --> 00:01:30,983
It says becoming human.

19
00:01:30,983 --> 00:01:33,561
and I went, aren't we already.

20
00:01:34,705 --> 00:01:45,215
Well, uh know, most everyone kind of asked me the question that before reading the book, I
thought we're all very humans.

21
00:01:45,215 --> 00:01:57,764
You're corrupt from a technical sense, we're all very humans, but there is always this
group that, that is part of our journey, you know, from birth to death.

22
00:01:58,345 --> 00:02:04,187
So at some point in the process, I think we learn a lot and we we make a

23
00:02:04,199 --> 00:02:06,639
and we make a turn around.

24
00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:09,779
A of people experience it, I believe.

25
00:02:11,519 --> 00:02:15,839
Before I say the next sentence, I'm gonna tell one thing.

26
00:02:16,859 --> 00:02:30,139
There are about 50 reviews personally I got from different people that read my book, from
all walks of life, include young teens and adults to grownups.

27
00:02:30,239 --> 00:02:32,743
And one common theme I heard,

28
00:02:32,743 --> 00:02:43,589
uh from everyone is, man, when I read this, it's kind of reading my life, not my life,
their life, no matter where they are in their journey.

29
00:02:43,589 --> 00:02:54,495
So they can relate so much to it, their childhood or their growth or the job, friends,
family, or the issues they go through.

30
00:02:54,516 --> 00:03:00,423
The reason why it was so important for me to hear that is, you know, the...

31
00:03:00,423 --> 00:03:18,480
The of the title, Becoming Humor, takes the journey of me when I start understanding what
life is about to the point when my life got toppled, to the point I got up and started

32
00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:19,181
walking again.

33
00:03:19,181 --> 00:03:28,894
you know, all those things we all go through at certain stages of life when you are very
young or somewhere along the way, right?

34
00:03:29,751 --> 00:03:42,505
So, you know, so my response to you is yes, we're all humans, but somewhere along the way,
we truly understand what being human is.

35
00:03:43,027 --> 00:03:46,550
That's the processes what becoming human is.

36
00:03:46,759 --> 00:03:47,369
It's good.

37
00:03:47,369 --> 00:03:47,990
goes in line.

38
00:03:47,990 --> 00:03:57,568
We'll get into your new adventure in your endeavor, um, about, know, AI to drive
philanthropic adventures and building cultures and better communities.

39
00:03:57,568 --> 00:04:04,493
But when you said your life got toppled, what, what your book, you wrote the story of your
life.

40
00:04:04,574 --> 00:04:07,355
There's this thing called the hero's journey.

41
00:04:08,357 --> 00:04:10,558
And it's what most movies track.

42
00:04:10,558 --> 00:04:16,401
It's all the superheroes, but it's usually what we consider in stamp people with the.

43
00:04:16,401 --> 00:04:19,793
biggest successes in life and business and media.

44
00:04:19,793 --> 00:04:21,313
They all had this hero's journey.

45
00:04:21,313 --> 00:04:22,304
They were torn down.

46
00:04:22,304 --> 00:04:23,935
They lost it all.

47
00:04:23,935 --> 00:04:31,879
lost a lot of people around them and then they came back, but not everybody comes back and
lives this hero's journey.

48
00:04:31,879 --> 00:04:35,600
So when you were knocked down, what was going on inside of you?

49
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:41,483
What caused you to fight, to strive, to build back, to build the life you want?

50
00:04:42,183 --> 00:04:43,703
That's a great question.

51
00:04:43,703 --> 00:04:46,323
really like where we're going with this.

52
00:04:46,883 --> 00:04:57,143
know, the part of knockdown is it's your relative expectations of where you are in life.

53
00:04:58,262 --> 00:05:03,463
So if you think you are at a hundred feet and when you fall down, you're gonna fall a
hundred feet.

54
00:05:03,463 --> 00:05:08,023
If think you are at 10 feet, when you fall down, you're gonna feel the 10 feet drop,
right?

55
00:05:08,083 --> 00:05:11,491
So in my case, I wore

56
00:05:11,491 --> 00:05:19,511
really hard to build my family, to build my uh career for as long as I did.

57
00:05:19,511 --> 00:05:34,226
The way I dreamt, the way I planned on my terms and I probably became arrogant along the
way that nothing can beat me because it was going so well.

58
00:05:34,347 --> 00:05:38,789
So now you can imagine the gap is pretty significant.

59
00:05:38,850 --> 00:05:41,081
So when life hit me hard,

60
00:05:41,415 --> 00:05:53,165
Um, you know, I was probably two seconds away, uh, two seconds away from like running my
Tesla right into a medium.

61
00:05:53,165 --> 00:05:53,806
That's all.

62
00:05:53,806 --> 00:05:54,936
That's all upset.

63
00:05:54,936 --> 00:05:59,570
was, I would never do it, but you go through these motions in life, right?

64
00:05:59,570 --> 00:06:03,934
Um, so then the, two seconds give me the turnaround.

65
00:06:03,934 --> 00:06:10,117
need the moment I thought like that, that two seconds made me think like, shit, what the
hell am I doing?

66
00:06:10,117 --> 00:06:11,849
We have much more purpose.

67
00:06:11,849 --> 00:06:15,732
These are all like, uh seeing feelings that will come and go.

68
00:06:15,732 --> 00:06:16,072
Right.

69
00:06:16,072 --> 00:06:27,522
Um, so, so the growth I had until then, whatever I accomplished or not until then just, I
felt that meaningless.

70
00:06:27,522 --> 00:06:29,483
They don't have real meaning.

71
00:06:29,644 --> 00:06:35,069
So what that helped me is reshape my life in a different way.

72
00:06:35,069 --> 00:06:38,247
My thinking, my life, the way I look at my kids.

73
00:06:38,247 --> 00:06:45,347
The way I look at my friends, family, it's strange that while I'm on the street,
everything dramatically changed.

74
00:06:46,919 --> 00:06:49,319
So that was for me a change.

75
00:06:49,319 --> 00:06:53,899
A lot of people, like you said, some will come back, some will come back much stronger.

76
00:06:53,899 --> 00:06:55,399
Some may not come back.

77
00:06:55,399 --> 00:07:00,979
Some will come back better, so better that they'll go in a completely different direction.

78
00:07:00,979 --> 00:07:02,659
It has nothing to do with money.

79
00:07:02,659 --> 00:07:09,979
has nothing to with who you are in the strata of life, but it has everything to do with
how you approach your mind.

80
00:07:10,159 --> 00:07:16,869
So I felt like my approach for life took a turn for the better with whatever I felt like.

81
00:07:16,869 --> 00:07:18,608
did wrong to my wife.

82
00:07:19,017 --> 00:07:20,015
That made sense.

83
00:07:20,015 --> 00:07:21,556
Yeah, 100%.

84
00:07:21,556 --> 00:07:28,070
Um, the book themes, there's a few really big themes that stuck out, stuck out to me as I
researched it and looked into it.

85
00:07:28,070 --> 00:07:33,913
That's going to lead to everything you're doing now, but it, um, that imperfection is
actually a strength.

86
00:07:34,695 --> 00:07:36,635
Yes, yes.

87
00:07:37,175 --> 00:07:52,095
know, the one thing I struggle in the first 20 years of my life is every time I felt like
something was wrong, used to make my life so hard and everyone around me, around me also

88
00:07:52,095 --> 00:07:53,835
so hard to fix it.

89
00:07:53,835 --> 00:08:01,095
It's all the way from how my kids are fed to what they're studying and what vacations
they're going.

90
00:08:01,095 --> 00:08:03,375
Everything I was so meticulous.

91
00:08:03,623 --> 00:08:16,183
You know, so then I realized, know, imperfect, we label things, good, bad, ugly, perfect,
imperfect.

92
00:08:16,683 --> 00:08:26,343
When we, you know, there is one thing that always, when I grew up, I went to a school, I
went to a missionary school.

93
00:08:26,343 --> 00:08:33,683
And one of the things I learned along the way is from the pastor, that is humans are born
sinful.

94
00:08:34,267 --> 00:08:37,510
That was the biggest Bible lesson I took.

95
00:08:37,510 --> 00:08:43,634
And I took it in such a way that it came true to me that they're never perfect to begin
with.

96
00:08:43,835 --> 00:08:51,521
And we're going to spend our entire lives trying to turn around something that should
never be turned around.

97
00:08:51,521 --> 00:08:59,447
So imperfection is something what we're labeling as is a personality trait that was
supposed to be the way it is.

98
00:08:59,608 --> 00:09:03,330
If I comb my hair like this, it is imperfect.

99
00:09:03,865 --> 00:09:05,266
It's perfectly okay.

100
00:09:05,266 --> 00:09:08,919
Why do I need to come with such a way that needs to look perfect?

101
00:09:08,919 --> 00:09:09,400
Right?

102
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:15,584
I mean, that's a very simple example, but that's my point, right?

103
00:09:15,985 --> 00:09:29,063
If you can embrace your imperfections and not get too stressed out about it, the magnitude
and the lens you look at them will be so minimal that they won't even matter in life.

104
00:09:29,063 --> 00:09:30,123
Yeah.

105
00:09:30,123 --> 00:09:32,043
Deep in the book too.

106
00:09:32,063 --> 00:09:35,923
Um, and then we're going to jump over to, to core themes about what you're building now.

107
00:09:35,923 --> 00:09:43,863
But you touch on this idea about, know, authenticity is like the word of the past 10
years, but you talk about authenticity over image.

108
00:09:43,863 --> 00:09:46,883
And I'm sure that also goes with the ego and all this.

109
00:09:46,883 --> 00:09:50,863
That's kind of the conversation we're having here worried about outside judgment.

110
00:09:51,143 --> 00:09:57,163
Success isn't about, um, projecting this polished persona, but owning your story.

111
00:09:57,163 --> 00:09:58,655
think that's the idea.

112
00:09:59,537 --> 00:10:00,408
Right.

113
00:10:00,408 --> 00:10:01,508
Yes.

114
00:10:02,429 --> 00:10:08,963
And I have a deeply philosophical ah conclusion on this in general.

115
00:10:08,963 --> 00:10:13,596
want to, for this, I'm going to start from the end.

116
00:10:13,596 --> 00:10:17,678
The end is at some point we're going to stop breathing.

117
00:10:18,058 --> 00:10:26,483
When we stop breathing, know, over the next week, 10 days, people will gather around us.

118
00:10:28,241 --> 00:10:32,183
condolences messages to talking about what you accomplished.

119
00:10:32,183 --> 00:10:42,879
We turn into coffee top to political talk to some other discussion very soon within a
month or less than that actually in days you'll be forgotten.

120
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,842
And you don't even know as a dead person what's happening right after that.

121
00:10:47,842 --> 00:10:49,193
So what are you fighting for?

122
00:10:49,193 --> 00:10:54,606
You're not fighting for to build a legacy that you can't feel.

123
00:10:54,606 --> 00:10:55,956
You can't fight for legacy.

124
00:10:55,956 --> 00:10:57,561
No one is going to care about.

125
00:10:57,561 --> 00:10:58,632
after your God.

126
00:10:58,632 --> 00:11:00,852
So what are you really fighting for?

127
00:11:01,213 --> 00:11:11,934
So now you tie that back to authentic living and stop claiming to build a legacy, stop
claiming to build a fortress for something that you're never going to see, nobody's going

128
00:11:11,934 --> 00:11:13,011
to care for.

129
00:11:13,011 --> 00:11:21,141
I think when you kind of take all these things into perspective, the reality is, are you
happy today?

130
00:11:21,141 --> 00:11:22,801
And where does happiness come from?

131
00:11:22,801 --> 00:11:27,183
And to me, all of these have one road that is

132
00:11:27,291 --> 00:11:29,171
being true to yourself.

133
00:11:29,232 --> 00:11:31,742
I think you can do whatever you want to do.

134
00:11:31,742 --> 00:11:33,553
You can buy material things.

135
00:11:33,553 --> 00:11:35,123
You can buy Lamborghinis.

136
00:11:35,123 --> 00:11:37,834
can go have million dollar vacations.

137
00:11:37,834 --> 00:11:47,936
That's not the matter of the matter is whatever you do in the world you are, in the
affordability you have, are you happy?

138
00:11:48,357 --> 00:11:57,199
Whether it is doing the staycation or whether being a, know, teller at a bank or doing a
job at Walmart or

139
00:11:57,703 --> 00:12:00,543
being a CEO of a billion dollar company.

140
00:12:00,543 --> 00:12:03,983
Are you authentic to yourself, to the people around you?

141
00:12:03,983 --> 00:12:09,143
I think that's what gives you a sense of peace and happiness.

142
00:12:09,323 --> 00:12:12,559
And once you achieve that, then everything else doesn't matter.

143
00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:12,749
Yeah.

144
00:12:12,749 --> 00:12:20,855
Do you think happiness, shouldn't define it as a feeling, but almost a state that we're in
because, feelings and emotions are going to come and go.

145
00:12:20,855 --> 00:12:29,101
I just think about hard times and I just don't know anything great that we all do that
every day it goes to plan.

146
00:12:29,101 --> 00:12:30,652
Most things don't.

147
00:12:30,813 --> 00:12:39,333
And if we're in the state and committed to this thing that you say that our true self or
what we, what we're destined to do, what our purpose is.

148
00:12:39,333 --> 00:12:39,593
Right.

149
00:12:39,593 --> 00:12:45,731
That should combine with, if you know you're doing that and you're committed to it, the
hard stuff shouldn't make you unhappy.

150
00:12:46,567 --> 00:12:49,207
You are absolutely right.

151
00:12:49,207 --> 00:12:50,987
It's the state of being.

152
00:12:51,747 --> 00:12:56,267
I mean, if you try and work for happiness, will never happen.

153
00:12:56,267 --> 00:12:57,267
Period, right?

154
00:12:57,267 --> 00:13:02,787
You work for stuff that keeps you at peace, which in turn creates a state.

155
00:13:02,967 --> 00:13:05,467
You're going to go through all the motions in life, right?

156
00:13:05,467 --> 00:13:10,607
No matter how perfect human being you are, you're gonna go through all sorts of emotions
in life.

157
00:13:10,607 --> 00:13:16,383
I don't care if you are a pastor at a church or a sub guru or a coach.

158
00:13:16,517 --> 00:13:19,600
You have to go through all your emotions in life, but that's not important.

159
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:28,377
The important part is when you take at any moment in life, how many threads you are
running in your brain that are pulling you down.

160
00:13:29,779 --> 00:13:37,485
And the reason behind them, if the reason behind them is because of your actions, that
means your state of happiness will never be achieved.

161
00:13:37,485 --> 00:13:41,268
The reason is, okay, I want to make sure my son gets into a good college.

162
00:13:41,369 --> 00:13:44,615
You know, I want to make sure, you know,

163
00:13:44,615 --> 00:13:49,134
My dog is sick, I want to make sure it becomes better.

164
00:13:49,295 --> 00:13:53,255
Those things are a part of life and we have to embrace them.

165
00:13:53,355 --> 00:13:57,895
But everything else is noise we create that should not exist.

166
00:13:57,957 --> 00:14:01,727
Yeah, it's whatever's happening out there only affects us if we allow it.

167
00:14:02,169 --> 00:14:02,711
Exactly.

168
00:14:02,711 --> 00:14:04,002
Yeah.

169
00:14:04,325 --> 00:14:06,049
But I think the go to right.

170
00:14:06,049 --> 00:14:06,457
No.

171
00:14:06,457 --> 00:14:10,889
Hey, listen, I'm sitting here at 46 and the things I'm talking about, I'm not a guru.

172
00:14:10,889 --> 00:14:18,864
It's just finally some of the lessons that I've learned that said, Hey, listen, if I want
to live a more peaceful life plugged into this idea, I don't even know if it's habit, it's

173
00:14:18,864 --> 00:14:19,894
content for me.

174
00:14:19,894 --> 00:14:22,916
just know that I'm doing the things I need to be doing.

175
00:14:22,916 --> 00:14:24,927
And when it's hard, it's not going to get me down.

176
00:14:24,927 --> 00:14:34,422
The emotions aren't going to be bad, but yeah, I mean, there's different things happening
on a daily basis, but, um, to be able to conquer one's own mind.

177
00:14:34,507 --> 00:14:36,603
I think I'm in the process of that.

178
00:14:36,603 --> 00:14:42,208
Yeah, is a big deal.

179
00:14:42,249 --> 00:14:44,090
That awareness is important.

180
00:14:44,090 --> 00:14:57,615
The idea that you can observe yourself and say, has been my behavior, that itself is a
change that will start making a difference in your life.

181
00:14:57,615 --> 00:14:58,615
Right on.

182
00:14:58,936 --> 00:15:02,038
Hey, so your next level of AI, you've been doing this for decades.

183
00:15:02,038 --> 00:15:10,872
know too, from a consumer standpoint, if it's not our career, it feels like it's new
because there's chat GPT and there's, there's perplexity.

184
00:15:10,872 --> 00:15:14,484
There's a bunch of different ones that now we have access to.

185
00:15:14,484 --> 00:15:20,638
We pull either talk to it or we plug in text and it's thinking for us and it's creating
spreadsheets and algorithms.

186
00:15:20,638 --> 00:15:26,427
So it's really the first time that the programmer, the builder.

187
00:15:26,427 --> 00:15:30,790
has been using it in the past three, four years, but you, you, you've been working on it
for decades.

188
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:40,457
So this isn't new to you, but what you're working on now, if you can do somewhat of a deep
dive, but it's unlike typical AI models, the way that consumers will understand it, what

189
00:15:40,457 --> 00:15:49,683
you're doing now that prioritize quick responses, but you advocate for a system, I believe
that hold memory and narrative like contextually.

190
00:15:51,504 --> 00:15:52,585
And that's different, right?

191
00:15:52,585 --> 00:15:55,717
Because these systems that we're interacting with right now,

192
00:15:56,025 --> 00:16:04,130
It seems when I'm building a, I build a program or build a system or build a, I build it.

193
00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:09,749
Once I'm done building that, the thinking and the thought and the learning doesn't carry
over to the next one automatically.

194
00:16:10,367 --> 00:16:12,308
That's, that's absolutely right.

195
00:16:12,308 --> 00:16:13,528
That's absolutely right.

196
00:16:13,528 --> 00:16:23,432
Um, you know, so, you know, yeah, AI is a multi-dimensional monster right now.

197
00:16:24,093 --> 00:16:32,556
It's, it's, it has a very big benefit that people can get if they figure out how to use it
in the day to the life.

198
00:16:32,556 --> 00:16:33,796
will shorten.

199
00:16:33,797 --> 00:16:37,968
It has a way to make you the dumbest person on the planet because you're not thinking
anymore.

200
00:16:37,968 --> 00:16:40,089
You're letting it think all the time for you.

201
00:16:40,103 --> 00:16:42,225
And it's happening as we speak, right?

202
00:16:42,225 --> 00:16:54,985
And it has the, uh, another head that is trying to replace part portions of, you know, a
lot of jobs and portions of your career, uh, differently shaping it differently.

203
00:16:54,985 --> 00:16:57,017
And that's happening like, like that.

204
00:16:57,017 --> 00:16:58,278
are many facets too.

205
00:16:58,278 --> 00:16:59,098
Right.

206
00:16:59,959 --> 00:17:03,092
But the inevitable thing is change is going to come in.

207
00:17:03,092 --> 00:17:03,882
It's going to happen.

208
00:17:03,882 --> 00:17:05,883
You cannot, you cannot stop it.

209
00:17:06,204 --> 00:17:10,167
So if we are to throw out has a responsibility, right.

210
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:14,870
One of the things is what are you going to use it for?

211
00:17:15,030 --> 00:17:20,070
How are you going to convert that to a useful tool for humanity?

212
00:17:20,130 --> 00:17:27,810
And I strongly believe there will be a section of people that are going to 100 % focus on
making humans completely useless.

213
00:17:28,770 --> 00:17:30,210
is no need for them.

214
00:17:30,210 --> 00:17:31,750
That's their focus.

215
00:17:33,470 --> 00:17:37,390
And I can't stop that, you can't stop that, nobody can stop that.

216
00:17:37,390 --> 00:17:40,283
And the section of people like me,

217
00:17:40,283 --> 00:17:47,438
that wants to figure out how to make it a tool to enhance my life at a balance.

218
00:17:47,438 --> 00:17:48,088
Right.

219
00:17:48,088 --> 00:17:54,492
So like that, are also, so in my sphere of life, context is important.

220
00:17:54,613 --> 00:17:56,774
Humanizing AI is important.

221
00:17:56,774 --> 00:17:58,896
Carrying the memory is important.

222
00:17:58,896 --> 00:18:10,299
And, you know, all of these, the net effect should be, it's not only, it gives me more
time.

223
00:18:10,299 --> 00:18:13,940
for me to be a human and do things a human does.

224
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:19,942
So I get more time in the day to do more things with my family, more things for me.

225
00:18:19,942 --> 00:18:24,684
uh So that's what I'm focused on.

226
00:18:24,684 --> 00:18:34,579
How to make it a useful tool that it can overall reduce the burden on a human because
everything got so complex with technology and stuff right now.

227
00:18:34,579 --> 00:18:35,847
Does that make sense?

228
00:18:35,847 --> 00:18:40,507
Can you do you think that so I have this question like, are you going to be able to
monetize it?

229
00:18:40,507 --> 00:18:46,591
it a, is it a, is it a capitalist venture with also making a positive difference for, can
you do that?

230
00:18:47,173 --> 00:18:47,643
Right.

231
00:18:47,643 --> 00:18:50,044
No, I mean, uh absolutely.

232
00:18:50,044 --> 00:18:53,255
Of course, it's happening every day.

233
00:18:53,255 --> 00:18:55,836
People are monetizing it differently.

234
00:18:55,836 --> 00:18:59,557
Right now, AI is the low-hanging fruit.

235
00:18:59,557 --> 00:19:06,819
is marketing, coding tools, for consumer-generated AI.

236
00:19:06,819 --> 00:19:11,010
That's what people are monetizing and creating all sorts of agents around it.

237
00:19:11,010 --> 00:19:14,431
But the applied agentic AI

238
00:19:14,821 --> 00:19:19,053
are applied AI to solve the problem in the real world.

239
00:19:19,053 --> 00:19:20,893
We haven't seen that yet.

240
00:19:20,934 --> 00:19:23,335
Like, like for example, right.

241
00:19:23,335 --> 00:19:29,077
I'm a guy sitting there and planning the aircraft routing.

242
00:19:29,277 --> 00:19:34,319
How is AI going to help me to do my job better?

243
00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:36,300
That stuff hasn't happened yet.

244
00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:37,950
Everything is around coding.

245
00:19:37,950 --> 00:19:42,112
Everything that is around the place and people, constant operators, that kind of stuff.

246
00:19:42,112 --> 00:19:42,722
Right.

247
00:19:42,722 --> 00:19:44,281
So I think.

248
00:19:44,281 --> 00:19:57,684
I think to me, the pivot comes when you start putting technology into the hands of people
that they can overall make everything better, safer, efficient and effective.

249
00:19:57,784 --> 00:20:01,009
And that is what at least I'm working on in my sphere of.

250
00:20:01,009 --> 00:20:01,630
How do you do it?

251
00:20:01,630 --> 00:20:12,542
Is this done just in almost in a bubble that you just build this one thing or can you
build an AI system that improves society in multiple areas and multiple facets?

252
00:20:12,542 --> 00:20:16,185
Does this have to be really central focused or can it be broad?

253
00:20:17,383 --> 00:20:22,105
It can be broad and I'll tell you my use case, how I'm doing it, right?

254
00:20:22,105 --> 00:20:27,266
And so right now I'm focused on digital twin technology.

255
00:20:27,886 --> 00:20:30,217
like, okay, what, what does that mean?

256
00:20:30,217 --> 00:20:31,107
Right?

257
00:20:31,427 --> 00:20:41,050
Like if I take an aircraft, I want to be see, I want to see that aircraft replica on my
screen and it always mirrors the status of the aircraft.

258
00:20:41,050 --> 00:20:42,890
That's the digital twin.

259
00:20:44,071 --> 00:20:52,411
Now I want to see the same technology for humans where a replica of me kind of helps me
with other stuff.

260
00:20:52,411 --> 00:20:54,291
So, okay, I'll take the first use case.

261
00:20:54,291 --> 00:20:55,011
What the hell do you mean?

262
00:20:55,011 --> 00:20:55,631
Right.

263
00:20:55,631 --> 00:20:57,391
I'll take the first use case.

264
00:20:58,611 --> 00:21:02,991
the Metra is the app that we are slowly rolling down.

265
00:21:02,991 --> 00:21:06,431
It's around mental health and it's not a chat bar.

266
00:21:06,431 --> 00:21:10,111
There are so many chat parts out there that are completely useless.

267
00:21:10,111 --> 00:21:12,251
And I'm not trying to replace a therapist.

268
00:21:12,251 --> 00:21:13,607
I'm not trying to replace

269
00:21:13,607 --> 00:21:15,707
make therapy 100 % AI.

270
00:21:15,707 --> 00:21:30,827
What I'm trying to do is put a tool in there that gives therapists a way to be much more
effective in their job and also expand their ideology in between sessions.

271
00:21:31,407 --> 00:21:36,887
because their access and their availability is so minimal, right?

272
00:21:36,887 --> 00:21:41,707
And at the same time, take their ideology and

273
00:21:41,927 --> 00:21:47,052
m apply to general reflective based mindfulness.

274
00:21:47,052 --> 00:21:59,183
When you take your typical 10 people, six of them are craving for being able to just talk
and get a good coaching response or just be listening here.

275
00:21:59,183 --> 00:22:03,046
You know, when you talk to Chad GPT today, it has no boundaries.

276
00:22:03,046 --> 00:22:04,768
You know, it agrees with you.

277
00:22:04,768 --> 00:22:08,549
It's not, and to me, it's not helpful in the right way.

278
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:08,829
Yeah.

279
00:22:08,829 --> 00:22:11,820
It might, it might lie to us a little bit too, based on the history.

280
00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:18,102
heard somebody recently say them and a friend, one friend said, who's the best soccer
player in the world.

281
00:22:18,102 --> 00:22:24,104
And it came back and it said it's messy because, then his friend did it too.

282
00:22:24,104 --> 00:22:32,237
And chat came back and said, it's Ronaldo and it gave them the information based upon all
the searching in their history.

283
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:33,399
Right.

284
00:22:33,439 --> 00:22:35,599
And that's one danger.

285
00:22:35,599 --> 00:22:39,479
The second danger is the moment you say, why are you saying, Ronaldo Messi is the best?

286
00:22:39,479 --> 00:22:40,539
Oh, no, you know what?

287
00:22:40,539 --> 00:22:41,199
You are right.

288
00:22:41,199 --> 00:22:42,399
Messi is the best.

289
00:22:42,739 --> 00:22:48,099
So it's very agreeable to whatever you are talking to it.

290
00:22:48,099 --> 00:22:50,259
So it's not a true reflection.

291
00:22:50,259 --> 00:22:53,819
It's not a true mentor that you can work with.

292
00:22:53,819 --> 00:23:00,497
So the AI I'm creating in mangled space is a 360 degree tool.

293
00:23:00,497 --> 00:23:11,650
where you can apply it in your family along with your therapists, uh or without them, you
can take the same AI and companies can use it and schools can use it.

294
00:23:11,650 --> 00:23:20,933
Now, all the data is used by the way we build on algorithms on top of what OpenAI cloud
and whatever it does.

295
00:23:20,933 --> 00:23:24,854
And instead of agreeing with you, it shows you patterns.

296
00:23:24,854 --> 00:23:27,295
Like for example, the example I used, right?

297
00:23:27,295 --> 00:23:29,115
When you're aware,

298
00:23:29,319 --> 00:23:40,039
that you're doing something wrong by giving you the power to observe what you're doing
wrong, the chances of your change are significantly higher.

299
00:23:40,139 --> 00:23:44,319
When you don't know what you're doing, you are an autopilot to disaster.

300
00:23:44,639 --> 00:23:46,379
So when you talk to Chad G.P.

301
00:23:46,379 --> 00:23:56,079
Key, he'll never come back and tell you, hey, in the last three hours you spoke to me,
these are the four things you said that just don't make any sense.

302
00:23:57,767 --> 00:24:00,508
Can you go back and relook at what you were doing?

303
00:24:00,508 --> 00:24:06,330
Because you just told me you're mad at your son because he didn't do this.

304
00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:10,461
But you also told me you asked, this is how you're going to behave.

305
00:24:10,461 --> 00:24:14,192
Those two are uh polarities, right?

306
00:24:14,772 --> 00:24:25,073
My logic that we are putting in, outminish learning algorithm, the way I analyze stuff is
I want to be a true help to you.

307
00:24:25,073 --> 00:24:31,184
to be able to see your patterns over a period of time and give you tools on how to resolve
them.

308
00:24:31,205 --> 00:24:35,106
Which sheds you pity, cloud or graph, they don't do that stuff.

309
00:24:35,106 --> 00:24:36,536
They're out there having fun with you.

310
00:24:36,536 --> 00:24:39,007
know, collecting data and having fun with you.

311
00:24:39,007 --> 00:24:51,680
So that's how I'm making a difference with MySpace by applying it to a very critical
problem that is not only hitting general population, but when you at large look at low

312
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,949
income neighborhoods who are struggling to get mental support.

313
00:24:54,949 --> 00:25:03,664
When you at large look at prison population, 80 % of them are there because of small
misdemeanors and they don't have a way to deal with them.

314
00:25:04,085 --> 00:25:07,487
This becomes a very useful tool to solve the problem.

315
00:25:07,907 --> 00:25:10,119
Is there any example of this yet?

316
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:18,016
Like it's not, not even trying to have a got you question, but are you and the other
people in the space, are you trying to build this under the belief of the purpose?

317
00:25:18,016 --> 00:25:22,850
Or if it's just like, is it just automated right now?

318
00:25:22,850 --> 00:25:26,453
Or is there something that AI has built trust in the way you're talking about it?

319
00:25:27,383 --> 00:25:41,963
Um, so, so we, you know, I've been working on this, uh, you know, for last several months
and we had our first, uh, beta testing started on the, on our ability in, uh, late

320
00:25:41,963 --> 00:25:44,154
October, early November timeframe.

321
00:25:44,155 --> 00:25:54,442
And I have like, I mean, have 2,500 users signed up in the first week and several hundred
of them are consistently using it.

322
00:25:54,442 --> 00:25:56,551
So we get feedback from that.

323
00:25:56,551 --> 00:26:06,111
Well, one of the things I also want to make sure like very clearly tell is I don't use
anybody's conversations to better my AI.

324
00:26:06,111 --> 00:26:07,791
It's completely out.

325
00:26:08,111 --> 00:26:16,571
All the conversations that you are doing are between you and my system are between you and
your therapist who you give access to.

326
00:26:17,291 --> 00:26:19,931
So, so that's one thing I want to be clear.

327
00:26:20,231 --> 00:26:25,167
So, so what the feedback that I'm getting is

328
00:26:25,167 --> 00:26:30,730
Initially, it started where I don't know how it is any different from charging the T, why
should I pay for it?

329
00:26:30,730 --> 00:26:34,812
You know, to the point where, man, this is very helpful.

330
00:26:35,173 --> 00:26:38,614
Before I have people using it twice a week.

331
00:26:38,614 --> 00:26:41,235
Now I have people using twice a day.

332
00:26:41,756 --> 00:26:52,281
And the same individuals that started and stayed with the system for a week, I'm seeing
they're doing like anywhere between eight to 15 sessions.

333
00:26:52,622 --> 00:26:54,759
They're all 10, 15 minute sessions.

334
00:26:54,759 --> 00:27:00,359
What they're telling me is they keep coming back because it's helping them.

335
00:27:00,379 --> 00:27:02,819
It's not a random chat with ChatGPT.

336
00:27:02,819 --> 00:27:06,099
What it is doing is it wore a pair of tie.

337
00:27:06,099 --> 00:27:07,759
It built a history for you.

338
00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:11,879
It started showing patterns and it starts seeing patterns.

339
00:27:11,879 --> 00:27:14,159
We're like, wow, this is being helpful to me.

340
00:27:14,179 --> 00:27:20,759
And the reviews I get back from these users are, pre-session was so useful.

341
00:27:20,759 --> 00:27:24,019
I was able to figure out what's been going on with me.

342
00:27:24,019 --> 00:27:24,959
World Christmas.

343
00:27:25,495 --> 00:27:30,802
When I see the response back, it makes me so happy that I'm doing something right right
now.

344
00:27:30,802 --> 00:27:32,214
mean, have long ways to go.

345
00:27:32,214 --> 00:27:33,265
Don't get me wrong.

346
00:27:33,265 --> 00:27:37,415
I'm not trying to solve a problem in a month or two months.

347
00:27:37,415 --> 00:27:44,929
I'm here for long game and I want to make sure I do this right and make it truly a
game-changing tool.

348
00:27:45,915 --> 00:27:56,475
Did this occur to you from the moment you had, where you said in your life, you're like,
man, this, you're building a system that would have helped you.

349
00:27:59,584 --> 00:28:01,303
that's, that's a good point.

350
00:28:01,303 --> 00:28:14,337
Uh, the reason that I ended up picking mental health is, uh, you know, when I, when I was
going through what I was going through with my family that played a significant role on

351
00:28:14,337 --> 00:28:17,719
the events that are unfolding with the people that I'm dealing with.

352
00:28:19,161 --> 00:28:27,237
and, and back then, you know, I didn't care about it much because the way they grew up in
India.

353
00:28:27,375 --> 00:28:31,256
Mangalore Alp was never a point of discussion back in the day.

354
00:28:31,456 --> 00:28:35,887
We had enough support around us and that's one issue.

355
00:28:35,887 --> 00:28:38,098
Another issue is it's also kind of a taboo.

356
00:28:38,098 --> 00:28:43,509
So I never grew up thinking that I had to focus on it.

357
00:28:43,509 --> 00:28:44,280
Never ever did.

358
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:49,121
Never had a session with a counselor or a therapist in my life.

359
00:28:50,321 --> 00:28:56,183
So however, that event changed my thinking subconsciously.

360
00:28:56,453 --> 00:29:06,116
But when I actually solve the technology problem this year, I listed about 200 use cases I
can do with it.

361
00:29:06,116 --> 00:29:11,803
But the first use case I keep coming back to is, where does all the mental health problem?

362
00:29:12,084 --> 00:29:14,246
And that's how I came to

363
00:29:15,993 --> 00:29:25,075
What, um, do you have any idea your quiet thoughts that you don't talk about that, or
maybe if the book that you're like, where do you really think this is going?

364
00:29:25,075 --> 00:29:35,167
There's all these big debates and theories and all this, but your intelligent brain, you'd
have the mic you're in front of, let's just say the whole world's listening in.

365
00:29:35,953 --> 00:29:36,697
RUN!

366
00:29:36,697 --> 00:29:42,379
Where do you think AI is going in combination of what society will look like?

367
00:29:43,547 --> 00:29:43,877
Yes.

368
00:29:43,877 --> 00:29:46,530
Sorry, great question.

369
00:29:46,530 --> 00:29:48,812
And I don't have a perfect answer for it.

370
00:29:48,812 --> 00:29:51,783
I have my thoughts and they're very subjective.

371
00:29:51,783 --> 00:29:54,983
Yeah, I don't think any of us do.

372
00:29:54,983 --> 00:29:57,763
I think we're trying to figure out what's this going to be, right?

373
00:29:57,763 --> 00:30:01,023
But I want to hear what your thoughts are that are still evolving.

374
00:30:01,287 --> 00:30:03,047
Yes, yes.

375
00:30:03,147 --> 00:30:18,807
So I'm absolutely certain when you take the last 200 years of growth in technology or
thinking or civilization or evolution, whatever you want to call it, this decade is going

376
00:30:18,807 --> 00:30:27,647
to be the most momentous decade in human history because we are going, our lives are going
to change so fast.

377
00:30:27,963 --> 00:30:50,695
You know and the technology may need us to solve so many problems But it is also going to
create so much inequality That the suffering Can be Can be can be quite bitter that's the

378
00:30:50,736 --> 00:30:57,089
I mean, that's the dark side of the story Okay, why am I saying what am I saying, right?

379
00:31:00,493 --> 00:31:14,520
The problem with AI is it's being used on a large scale while simultaneously making people
efficient.

380
00:31:14,620 --> 00:31:25,286
On a large scale, it is used to automate so many things that a lot of current generation
folks uh are dependent on the livelihood.

381
00:31:25,426 --> 00:31:27,067
Those jobs...

382
00:31:27,473 --> 00:31:29,044
will be wiped out.

383
00:31:29,284 --> 00:31:34,448
So when they go away, how are they going to be retooled?

384
00:31:34,448 --> 00:31:48,637
We took away, let's say if I take USA, the manufacturing is gone, arming is not there, uh
or it's there in a different way than it used to be there before.

385
00:31:49,078 --> 00:31:55,662
We are replacing people in Walmart, we're replacing people in uh Walmart, Kroger,
whatever, right?

386
00:31:55,662 --> 00:31:57,489
In all these retail stores.

387
00:31:57,489 --> 00:32:04,082
We're placing the people in oh restaurants and fast food chains that we have in the lab.

388
00:32:04,082 --> 00:32:10,604
Like when you look around you, everything is about cutting the people, cutting the people,
cutting the people.

389
00:32:10,604 --> 00:32:13,866
Then where are these people going to go and do the work?

390
00:32:13,866 --> 00:32:26,641
So what will end up happening is in order to keep the society safe, again, I don't care
which government is there, who is running the countries, not just US, but across the

391
00:32:26,641 --> 00:32:27,491
globe.

392
00:32:27,515 --> 00:32:33,100
they'll end up giving money for people to just to survive so they can eat and stay there,
right?

393
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:47,091
So, and there will be this handful of people ah that is monetizing AI so fast, so quick,
the gap between the middle class will no longer exist.

394
00:32:48,092 --> 00:32:56,919
know, the people that are surviving on just getting food, that population will
significantly go grow higher and higher and higher.

395
00:32:56,977 --> 00:33:00,609
See, that's the dark side of the story.

396
00:33:00,750 --> 00:33:03,873
So what is the positive side of AI?

397
00:33:03,873 --> 00:33:15,112
The biggest and effective way is AI can solve the problem, Cancer treatments, all the
diseases that we deal with on a daily basis, that will come along, those get solved much

398
00:33:15,112 --> 00:33:17,383
faster, right?

399
00:33:17,464 --> 00:33:26,991
Everyday problems that we deal with as humans, they'll have fixed solutions.

400
00:33:27,035 --> 00:33:40,064
But end of the day, I feel like we'll see more suffering and pain, even though the wealth
is going to grow disproportionately for a large swath of population.

401
00:33:40,064 --> 00:33:48,890
That's, you know, I'm more aware of it, which drives me to do things differently, which is
why I'm much more aware of it.

402
00:33:48,890 --> 00:33:56,059
And I want to more talk about it because the more awareness around that I call.

403
00:33:56,059 --> 00:33:58,610
will make other entrepreneurs think differently.

404
00:33:58,610 --> 00:34:01,259
That is one of the reasons I want to talk more about.

405
00:34:01,265 --> 00:34:06,258
So your platform, it grew from saying we're but Siam, S-A-A-Y-A-M, right?

406
00:34:06,418 --> 00:34:07,699
That you're building.

407
00:34:07,699 --> 00:34:16,705
How do you balance efficiency in you building this as we can wrap the conversation up, but
how do you build that with emotional and ethical accountability built in?

408
00:34:16,705 --> 00:34:18,085
Cause that's what we're sitting here saying.

409
00:34:18,085 --> 00:34:21,207
Like, how do we make this just good for society?

410
00:34:22,023 --> 00:34:23,464
Karoar, karoar.

411
00:34:23,464 --> 00:34:29,929
So ayam in Sanskrit directly translates to help in English.

412
00:34:30,890 --> 00:34:44,081
So the very idea there is, when you can simply go Google get a response or go into any of
these AI tools and get a response, or when you can easily go to lots of websites and

413
00:34:44,081 --> 00:34:50,676
donate money, why can't you simply ask for help in the same way and get that help?

414
00:34:51,418 --> 00:34:55,300
That is the whole uh story behind SIA.

415
00:34:55,521 --> 00:35:05,809
So it's the only platform, I would say, currently in works and currently in expansion
that's going to make help as easy as Googling.

416
00:35:05,809 --> 00:35:12,443
So now, where are the checks and balances?

417
00:35:12,443 --> 00:35:16,766
How do you know that you're going to, you're helping the right cause, right?

418
00:35:16,766 --> 00:35:20,429
How do you know you are not fostering more laziness?

419
00:35:20,429 --> 00:35:35,168
You know one way right so we use love AI behind the scenes to make sure The the requests
are credible, you know for me the goal is to eliminate as much fraud as possibly I can

420
00:35:35,168 --> 00:35:48,315
that can happen in the world of in this world and and make every request as that as
Authentic it possibly could be so when someone goes and supports the telecast

421
00:35:48,315 --> 00:35:51,084
They know that they're truly making a difference.

422
00:35:51,084 --> 00:35:53,291
That's what Qasim is built for.

423
00:35:53,291 --> 00:35:55,265
That's where it is heading right now.

424
00:35:55,277 --> 00:35:55,868
Awesome.

425
00:35:55,868 --> 00:35:57,129
Hey, great conversation.

426
00:35:57,129 --> 00:35:59,951
This was 40 minutes of awesomeness.

427
00:35:59,951 --> 00:36:04,075
You're not feeling great, but you showed up and it said, Hey, he's ready to sit here and
party.

428
00:36:04,075 --> 00:36:07,878
Um, cause I love to see here the good side of AI and what you're doing.

429
00:36:07,878 --> 00:36:09,980
Um, I think it's fantastic.

430
00:36:09,980 --> 00:36:11,421
The book becoming human.

431
00:36:11,421 --> 00:36:19,497
Um, I think we all need to go out and figure out how we need to do this thing a little bit
better, how we can live in the more, a more human way plugged in and be authentic.

432
00:36:19,497 --> 00:36:24,141
And, I appreciate you live in that man and come and spend us 40 minutes here with us.

433
00:36:24,839 --> 00:36:25,339
Hey Mark.

434
00:36:25,339 --> 00:36:26,640
Thank you so much.

435
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:36,057
Uh, this podcast is so different for me of all the ones I did not focused on technology,
but focused on more real world problems.

436
00:36:36,057 --> 00:36:38,168
hope I got my message out properly.

437
00:36:38,168 --> 00:36:41,851
I cost you, um, to your listeners.

438
00:36:41,851 --> 00:36:43,332
I don't mean to be dark.

439
00:36:43,332 --> 00:36:45,174
I need to be more aware.

440
00:36:45,174 --> 00:36:46,594
sort of make sure.

441
00:36:46,935 --> 00:36:49,256
Anyways, let's go have a happy.

442
00:36:49,327 --> 00:36:49,839
Yeah, man.

443
00:36:49,839 --> 00:36:53,734
We'll tag the book and all the connections and all your socials.

444
00:36:53,734 --> 00:36:56,131
So thanks again, man, for jumping on.