#172 - Why Pain Changes Us and Why Vision Changes Us More | Udo Erasmus

0:00 The thing is when you have enough pain, you'll make changes, but when the pain goes, you stop. And it's always more fun to chase a vision than to run away from pain. All right, you guys say welcome back for another, what is going to be an energetic and I hope amazing episode. We'll see. we're to go deep with today's guest about health. And I just had a conversation and we're going to go deep also about human nature. I'm pumped, but, it's Udo Erasmus known world traveler. What I'm going to, what I think I'm going to understand after today, somehow like planetary traveler, we're going to learn something about today's guests.

0:45 That's going to be brand new. We're going to have a bunch of growth things happen, but Udo, he's a founder of Udo's Choice and author of Fats That Heal. Let me tell you something. I need to know a lot about this because I got some of this that needs to melt off, but it's fats that heal, fats that kill. Udo is a longtime entrepreneur who built a category defining brand well before the wellness industry became mainstream. His work offers a unique perspective on patience, trust, and long-term thinking, especially for founders building businesses around strong convictions. which so many of us do. I'm looking forward to a thoughtful conversation about entrepreneurship, resilience, and what it really takes to build something that lasts.

1:28 Welcome to the entrepreneur party, Udo. Thanks Mark, I'm just gonna be fun. I can already feel it in my bones. Yeah, you said it might take three hours. Where do we want to start with this with, know, you've had over 3000, 5,000 presentations, 3000 interviews. What's on your mind right now as we wrap up 2025, whether it's health, whether it's human nature, what do you fire it up to talk about now? Well, the two things that are most on my mind now is it struck, know, and I've worked, I've inched my ways up to it. You know, it started with little projects. I was a little guy, right? I was never thought of myself. yeah. I mean, I was thought big, but I never thought like me, was so that I'm that important.

2:13 And so I've been going bigger and bigger and bigger and now I'm 83 and I have some time left. And I want to do the biggest thing that needs to be addressed. And it's twofold. One is human nature. Because the idea is we've been living here for 200,000 years and we've never created a teachable field of human nature. You would think that would start in grade school and it would be the number one piece of curriculum. And the second thing we've never done is turned health into a teachable field. And why is that? Because health, health is the one big thing that everybody's always thinking about every day. Whether you got diarrhea or you got gas or you burping or your stomach hurts after you eat, or you got rash on your skin or your joints hurt, or, know, when it rains, it hurts more.

3:06 Or, you know, sometimes your thoughts drive you crazy. You know, all of that, has to do with us. not knowing where to keep ourselves to stay healthy. And I've created 10 parts to health, total health, 10 parts. Each one has a different nature and a different function, needs a different kind of attention, needs attention on a regular basis, goes off in a different ways and responds to a different kind of intervention. And if you want to be totally healthy, you got to give each one of those 10 its due. All right. So with human nature, what I know is we have to take the complex things and break them down and make them simple.

3:48 Yeah, yeah, we, know, people think of themselves like I studied a psychologist called individual psychology. Individual means indivisible. And it's a, it's a good psychology and it's pretty practical in certain ways. But the truth is we're not individuals. You're made of at least six parts that are completely different. They're so well integrated that you think you're just one guy. But you know that there are separable parts, because when a person dies, life and the body part company. And the body's finished and life goes wherever energy goes, right? You know you could be in a coma and your mind could be completely absent, but your body and your life would still be there.

4:33 So there's at least three pieces right there. It goes, but it goes, but there's more than that. But it's super beautifully integrated so that all of us heads up. in all six parts of us, head in the same direction most of the time. Yeah. So how do you, how do you teach this building curriculum for our brain around understanding it? And then boy, we could, after you understand it, then there's choices to be made. Right. Right. Well, the thing is you can't build a curriculum if you haven't done the homework. And what's the homework? Well, if you want to know about yourself, you see, look, I want to know. I heard Mark, Mark Perkins. Yeah, I heard good things about him. yeah, I want to get to know him.

5:15 So I decide what am I going to do to get to know Mark Perkins? I go to my neighbor and only talk to my neighbor. Am I going to get to know you? No, because your neighbor's not even going to hear to you. Yep, and even if they have an opinion, that one person's opinion. Yeah, yeah. And of course, if you don't like it, it's totally wrong, right? Yeah. Right? But so the idea is if you want to know what is human nature, where should you look? I mean, I should look internal. Yeah, hello. You are those six parts in your being. You want to observe something. You need to spend time with what you want to observe.

5:56 Right? So what does that mean? You need to spend time if you want to get to know human nature. And it'd be a really good idea if you wanted to get to know it. You need to spend time with yourself. So what's the benefit? Moving out the distraction, leaving the distractions outside, bring your focus into the space your body occupies. Look around, listen in, know, feel in what's there. What is there in the space your body occupies? That's what you have to do. So that's the whole, we call it the homework, the work you do at home in yourself, right? And hardly anybody does it. Yeah, the word self, you know, we, what we do is there's these things, there's self-esteem, self-confidence, self-belief.

6:41 Everybody moves past that first word in all these categories and they're waiting for the rest of the world to do something for them in all these areas. It's like, self it's founded in self. Yeah, for instance. That's why it's called self, right? Because you do it yourself. Well, you're we're supposed to but we beyond it. It's like we're waiting for the rest of the world to help us improve self-esteem I don't think so But we're trained like that. And part of it is because, you know, I guess talking about entrepreneurs is because we're not entrepreneurs. So we're not doing the self-motivated work we need to do in order to be successful in getting to know ourselves. Yeah. This sounds like so, so my journey probably, you know, it starts when we were born probably, but the journey I remember turning on, I speak about this at times.

7:29 It was a time when I had no money in my life. Cables turned off. just have public television. It's probably all we should have anyway, but, and I would back to back consistently. Charlie Rose would come on and he was one the most fantastic interviewers, no matter what anybody else thinks. He was just an awesome interviewer. But then after that, a lot of times on PBS. A guy named Wayne Dyer would come on. And as you're speaking to this, I'm like, this sounds like what Wayne Dyer was talking about. talks about Dharma as he talks. And it's just so calming. And it seemed like he understood himself in human nature. To some extent, yeah. But you don't even have to go there. Like he was pretty esoteric. What about Buddha?

8:09 What about Krishna? What about Jesus? They were teachers of human nature. Lao Tzu, Huang Po, there's a ton of them. And they left, know, whatever writings are left from them, there's wisdom in those writings. For instance, since we live in a North American society, And Jesus was the dominant until recently at least, was the most dominant teacher of human nature. So what did he say? Kingdom of heaven is within you. What's in the kingdom of heaven? All the good stuff, none of the bad stuff, right? Kingdom of heaven is within you.

8:49 So that God lives there and Christ lives there and Holy Spirit lives there and peace is there and love is there and Joy is there and wisdom is there and beauty is there and contentment is there. You know, I mean, you could go on and on all the good stuff that everybody wants, but nobody's looking inside. Even though the smartest guy on the, on the, on the, you know, on the block said kingdom of heaven is within you. Okay. Well, that should get you interested in spending time with yourself, but it doesn't. Then the second thing he does for you, for, because we're dummies, says, Seek first the kingdom and then everything else will be added unto you.

9:31 So everything else will fall into place. And then because we're still even dumb and that's not enough, seek first. That means you have to bring your focus inside. Right? Then he says, not everybody who says, Lord, Lord enters the kingdom. So that means what? This is not just about words. This has got to be an experience. What is your raw experience of yourself? I don't think most people truly live in experience. think they just exist. Yeah, yeah. Then he says, what you've done to one of the least of these that you have done to me. And if you think about that, he's saying, I'm in everybody.

10:11 Of course, you already know that. Kingdom of heaven is within you. So if the kingdom of heaven is within you and Christ lives in the kingdom of heaven, then Christ lives within you. You know? I mean, in a way, it's really simple. It's been really well explained. We memorize the words and we don't do the homework. So what's so difficult about, let's say someone listens here or listens to, you your engagement over the years and it makes sense. Let's say it makes sense to them. How do we define human nature? If it's these six areas, six parts to a human, but then human nature, can it be defined that every person, every human shares this nature or is it different?

10:55 Would you argue that it's significantly different in all of us? Because there's some of the gurus out here like Tony Robbins and this people I do, I don't follow really any person, but there's really, there's a lot of intelligence with a lot of them, but he talks about patterns. He said, just write patterns and then, you know, Seeing them and then working with them and then creating them. But is it all the same? Is human nature all the same in all of us? Yes. And let me qualify that because some things are the same. Okay, let me just like go into it, okay? So one of the things is that your universal essence is an infinite, all-encompassing peace.

11:42 And that all-encompassing peace is also called awareness, it's also called the field, it's also called God, it's also called oneness, wholeness. Peace. There's more peace in this universe than anything else. But we don't see it because only peace can see peace. So you gotta get in touch with the peace at the core of your being, which is your access to the peace that is everywhere. So if you're not doing the homework, you ain't gonna see the peace.

12:24 But the truth is, galaxies explode in peace. It's like pieces like space, right? Galaxies explode in peace and peace is not affected. That every human being has in common as their innermost nature, okay? Nobody different. Nobody, there's not different pieces of peace. Same thing and it's everywhere. So that one's the same. Second is life. Life is a flow. Of a fraction of solar energy. And this is true for any, any creature on the planet, microbes, plants, funguses, animals, humans.

13:05 So your life is a fraction of solar energy that's been filtered through the, through 93 million miles of space. That's good because if you got too close to it, would burn your toenails. Right? So it's filtered. So there was a right distance away from it. Then it's filtered through the atmosphere. then it's filtered through mostly green plants. And the fraction of solar energy that remains activates electrons. They get excited, they jump orbits, and then they bond with electrons from other atoms that make molecules. And that solar energy fraction is stored in the molecules.

13:46 You eat those as food, and in your cells, those molecules, those bonds are broken. The solar energy is released and now we call it life. Life energy. Now look around the planet. The power source is the sun, right? And when the sun's shining, it's warm. And when you're on the backside of the, you know, on the dark side of the earth, it's cold, right? And you know, if you go like maybe, maybe a couple hundred miles out, it's like minus 50, minus a hundred degrees. So the solar energy runs everything on the planet. And that energy is life or life energy.

14:29 Its nature is a flow of unconditional empowering love in, of, for, and throughout your body. That energy is also omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient in the body. That's by the way, one definition of God, right? Everywhere in your body. weighs nothing, runs everything, is the master in your body, is the resident expert, is the CEO, is the owner and operator, is the benevolent dictator in your body. Right? We have that in common too.

15:09 Every one of us, that's our individual essence. Peace is our universal essence. This is our individual essence. And then the third one we have in common is the shine of that energy into the world. I call it inspired purpose, but you can also call it positive mind. And that's about vision and inspiration and imagination. and creativity and design and its nature is to shine this unconditional empowering love into the world, which means when you feel that, when you've done the homework and you feel the peace and the love, you look around and you say, okay, where can I help?

15:52 Because what else is there to do? I'm taken care of. It's not about me anymore. Where can I help? What needs to be done? How can I make the biggest splash for good that is possible to do in the time that I have? And there the differences begin. Yeah, we usually find what we seek. I found that in life. It's why attitude is so important. Right. So we have the shine in common, but what we directed to, we have some choices. Next, we go into the body. We have a body in common, but if you eat garbage, then you're going to end up with a body made out of garbage.

16:33 And if you eat in line with nature and your nature, you're going to end up with a body that works more effectively and will last longer than it would if if you, if you'd garbage it out. Okay. So we have the body in common, but the shape of the body, is individual differences. And then number five is, I call it survival smarts. And that's all this stuff that has to do with safety, protection, procreation, parenting, education, skills, survival skills, mastery, and all that kind of stuff. And there again, we have this need for protection in common.

17:13 You know, cause we live now, we live in a body that is, that's a delicate, you know, and the soft body lives in a hard world. And so there's, so safety is an issue, right? So again, the skills we have around safety may be different, but the need for safety we have in common. Then the last one is I call it habitual mind. It's all the garbage, all the baggage we carry, all the mental baggage we carry. Whether it's cultural or religious or national, all of our favorite memes, all of our knee jerks that the politicians use to get our attention. You know, all the habits that worked for our grandparents in the horse and buggy days, but we still think of them and believe like that now when we're living in a jet age.

18:03 So again, that's also different. And that part is. baggage that you want to bring to mind, you want to become aware of it, and you want to look at it. Is that really true? Is this really helpful anymore? And if it's not, then you discard it. So those are the six parts of human nature. So what's different is usually, you know, somebody's once said, the ability to think is God's gift to you. But what you think about is your gift to yourself. See, and some people's gift to themselves is to be anxious and overwhelmed, and some people's gift to themselves is to be grateful and be aware of, my God, dust, water, air, and a little sunshine get mixed up in a way that I get to have the human experience.

18:53 I mean, this goes back to, you know, Napoleon Hill's writings. goes back to even the book, secret, it's all these things, but isn't it really the thing that we think about is the thing that we're going to attain that we're going to participate in, that we're going to be a part of that we're going to accomplish. I've just. Right. It's about where your focus goes. Right? Because if your focus is on the peace, you will feel peace. If your focus is on the energy, you'll feel the empowered love. If your focus is on what he said, she said, when he was drunk and had a bad day and then you took it personally, right? Then if you, you know, that's going to become your reality. So wherever your focus go, that'll define your reality and what you focused on most often.

19:39 takes the largest part in defining your reality. So what's the biggest impact if the deeper we go into understanding human nature of truly knowing it is the biggest impact for us personally, or is the impact for the capability we have to interact with the world. Well, it depends on whether you're focused on being a human being or a human doing. Right? We are human beings, but we live like human doings. So we make and put our focus on doing, doing, doing, doing. And I say, well, if you do, do, do, do too much, then you end up being doodoo.

20:20 Right? And so then the question you ask is, well, is being more important than doing or is doing more important than being? Well, probably everything that needs to be done is probably, it probably happens through the being. Well, the thing is this, you can be without doing, but you can't do without being. So being is your foundation. so your being is where your contentment comes from, is where your fulfillment comes from, is where all the things that people struggle to try and find, we already have it in us. It's just our focus wandered off, right? So the fulfillment is in the being. And then the doing is the natural expression of how far we've come in being.

21:05 Yeah, give me your perfect definition of being. existence, presence, peace, contentment, calmness. And doesn't that have to be, doesn't that have to disassociate with everything else going out inside the world that's trying to come in and impact us? No, no, what's interesting in it is that that peace, that being is present and unaffected by anything going on anywhere. So you could live in heaven in the midst of hell, because heaven is where the peace lives, right?

21:50 But the issue is, okay, you're in hell. If you focus on the hell you're in, then your focus is off. So you can be in hell. and focus on the peace you're in and the hell becomes more bearable and becomes less, know, ends up having less power over you. But when you go focus on, you know, like I was born during the second world war. So peace was a big, and always a big issue for me, right? So in the sixties, I was part of the peace movement, but not for very long because I realized that we were, The peace movement was not about peace. The peace movement was against war. So we were, every time we talked, we were advertising war, even though we were saying anti-war, anti-war, anti-war, but it was always anti-war, war, war, war, war, war, war.

22:40 And I said, wait a minute, I'm not interested in war. I'm not interested in anti-war. I'm interested in peace. This is not where I need to be if I'm looking for peace. Yeah, I heard something very that most people seems very controversial and I bring it up to my friends that, you know, I even hate these terms about color of skin and minority and all this, but I heard Morgan Freeman. He was in an interview, I believe with Larry King or someone years ago and we don't, you know where I'm going with this. said, do you eliminate racism? He instantly said, stop talking about. Yeah. Well, I agree and I disagree. But I'll tell you why.

23:21 I had a friend that I worked with and she had the blackest skin I've ever seen. And there's like a part of East Africa, Northern East Africa, they're so black. Is that like Somalia in that area? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That area. Yeah. And I, I looked at her and I was working with her and there was always these issues. And when she was from the U S and the U S racism was bigger deal than in Canada. Cause you know, it was, we, we, we didn't have black people, many black people in Canada for a long time. More now, but so, so she's sitting across the table from me and I just looked at her and I'm just going in my head.

24:02 Wow. She's so black. And I leaned forward and I said, Willett, I love how black you are. You know, we work together so well, we never had an possible issue. So it's not that I didn't acknowledge the difference, it's I did it with love. Right? And so the other way to look at it is, the pigment, the jeans for skin pigment, there are about 10 of them. out of 23,000. What is that? One in 2,300. That's like less than 0.5%. So it's a very, very, very small difference. And if you notice, like if a black person opens their mouth, the skin inside is pink, right?

24:49 So it's just a covering that happened to people that lived in the tropics where the sunlight was very intense. And it protected them from getting fried in the sun. And then we were, and I'm a bleached African by the way. You know, I don't look like one, but why? Because we left Africa, went to North country and losing the pigment had survival value because there was less sun. So we were able with less pigment to absorb more of the sunshine to make more vitamin D. Right? And now when you go look in, in U.S. Where are you? here in the Midwest. Okay, so if you're in the U.S.

25:32 and you're a white person, 68 % of the population is vitamin D deficient. If you're Hispanic, so your skin is a little bit darker, 75 % of the population is vitamin D deficient. And if you have black skin, 82 % of the population is vitamin D deficient. And that's because of the more northern latitude. dark skinned people have more of a problem absorbing sunlight enough to make enough vitamin D. We also don't run around naked, so there's lots of other reasons.

26:14 But basically, we're living in the same place, but our ability to absorb sunshine and make vitamin D is different because of the skin pigment, right? But we might have different color skin, but the piece that is the universal essence of every being is exactly the same. And the unconditional empowering love that is the individual essence of every human being is also exactly the same. And when I'm in touch with that within me, don't, I feel cared for because that's what cares for me.

26:56 And when I feel cared for, I'm okay with everything else too. And then what can change, can be different, what's different can be different. It's not a problem. And what changes can change. It's not a problem, right? Because I have my stability. I have my anchor. I have my foundation, right? And I don't think that we, I don't think we're ever going to get not through woke and not through getting all the words right. You know, the words become right when the feeling is right, not the other way around. It's not like when you force people to get the words right, then the feeling becomes right. No, that doesn't work. And in fact, those people who say we should be doing all this include everybody and they're just as judgment as everybody else.

27:40 Yeah. Right. So, so, so think with the people with all the different types of religions, it's like, you know, agnostic and atheism. It's a, it's a religion too. It's just a thing that people believe it's a way that things operate. Right. And so it's like, the thing you're attacking, even though you don't identify it the same way, you're still grounded in something similar. Yeah, even science is a religion these days. Yes. You know, and the point is, and the point is, and what all the teachers said is, listen, get quiet, calm down, sit with yourself, observe without agenda. Notice what's there. Find out what is the nature of things.

28:23 Right? And you can't do that if you can't get quiet. Yeah. What's going on with the agenda of things and it, it's the world. It's everything. It's everyone is agenda based. What I had my philosophy, but you're more intelligent about this. What's the, what's the reasoning for that? Why do we need these agendas and these big statements and beliefs and dictations? Well, if you're not, if you're not in the raw experience of life, where your love is, where you don't need rules, where you don't need fences, like, you know, I'll give you just an example. I gave a talk on peace once. And it was a group of people, 300 people maybe. And at the end of it, this woman put up her hand and says, well, I hope with all this P, all this talk about peace, I hope you're also against violence against women.

29:07 Right? Okay. What you want to say is of course! that's one of the I'm talking about! No, so I said, so my answer to her was, I have never heard or read about or in any way ever. found an act of violence perpetrated against a woman by anyone in a moment of peace. because where's the violence come from? It comes from discontent. And then when you're discontent and you know your woman disagrees with you, whatever it is that's going on, then you get this idea and you may not be like really conscious of it.

29:47 It's like, boy, like, but at least if I belter, at least you'll shut up. Or if I belt her, you know, then I'll feel better. But it comes out of discontent. So then I said, so if that's true, then shouldn't we figure out how we can get to contentment because that will make the violence go away. instead of, you know, instead of violence against women, what are you doing? You're advertising violence because you're talking about it. So in that sense, Morgan Freeman is right. If you say black is bad, and then you say, well, I think we should make black not bad, you're still focusing on the difference.

30:28 Or you're saying, well, we should make it not bad. Well, you're still talking about making it bad, right? So on the one hand, I agree with him that we talk too much about it, but it's the negativity in the talk that's the problem. Not the fact that people are black and white and other colors. Right? And so what do we, where do we need to be in our own being to accept that people come in different shades of white, pink, black, brown, red, yellow and gray. Right? Where do we need to be in ourselves? And the masters all said, seek first the kingdom, do your homework. I say, do the homework.

31:09 When you've done the homework and your homework is done, there will be harmony in your relationships, there will be harmony in the world, there will be harmony within you, and you will have the longest, healthiest life that's possible to have, given your particular genetic nature. So what's holding us back instead of me bringing up all these things like this, you know, there's humans that have a disassociation with responsibility and choice and all, but it all comes back to peace, but it's can we identify the problem? I have to ask why can we identify the problem? Is that worthy in this moment? Sure. I'll tell you how we got there. It's very, people don't think about it. I don't know why it's really funny. So when you were in your mother's womb, what was it like in there?

31:53 It was awesome. And why was it awesome? You should have been bored crazy because it was nothing to do. was growing and taking care of and nurturing and everything was taking care of the wife and everything, everything that was happening there was going to set us up for who we were going to become and come out in the world and become this. And yeah, it was, was, it was incredible. Nope, but it was incredible because You didn't even know you had a body. I call it the Buddha tank. You're floating in the Buddha tank and the body was being created and there was no place to go and nothing to do and everything was taken care of. And was pretty safe. But isn't it true though with me thinking it was amazing, then it must have been.

32:34 Yeah, yeah. Well, no, so we're getting there. So where was your focus when you were in the womb? There was no place to go. You didn't know there was a mother around you. You didn't know there was a world around your mother. You had no language. You never had to go pee. Right? This is like, everything was okay. So where was your focus? Well, it never went anywhere. It was at rest inside in its source. What is the source of focus? Inside in life or beyond that in awareness. That's where your focus was. And in that focus, in that, if that's where your focus was, well, there was peace and there was love and, there was cool. There was this, it was this cool, right? But then you got booted out, paradise lost, right?

33:18 You're in paradise. know, and you were, the way, it was boring as hell for nine months. It was nothing to do. Can you imagine sitting doing nothing for nine months now? I'm so busy, yes I can. I don't think so. But anyway, but anyway, so you should have been bored, but you weren't bored. You were in bliss because you were in that peace. You were in that love. You were in, that space. So then that's where your focus was. So then you got booted out and now everything changed. Now you had to get to know the world because you have to survive in it. And so your focus got drawn out through your senses into the world to monitor change. Because every time something changes, you're immediately attracted to it.

34:01 What's that? And why is that? Because for survival, you have to notice change and you have to assess it. Is this friend to approach? Is this foe to run or fight? Or is this irrelevant and safe to ignore? And every time something changes, you go. You know, I give lectures and I'm really interesting and I have a whole room full of people. And they're all watching me. And if the side door on the, on the hall opens and somebody walks in, I lose my audience instantly. All of it. That's how, that's how drawn we are to that. And it's important for survival. But in that process, we went, went from being present inside in that peace, that love, that bliss, that whatever you call it.

34:46 And absent outside in our focus to more and more focused outside. and absent insight. So we got disconnected from our wholeness self, our peace and love self. We got disconnected from that. And that's where heartache began. From the disconnection came discontent. Discontent is heartache. Discontent is all kinds of things, loss, grief, sadness, loneliness, longing, blues. But something, something is not right. Something's not right, doesn't feel right. And we know that when we help people, it feels good in that place. And we know that when we hurt people, it feels bad in that place.

35:29 That place is the greatest gift we've been given, although we hate it, because we don't like feeling heartache. And so we try to distract ourselves or ignore it or explain it away or, you know, or deny it. or blame it on somebody like black people or like immigrants, like foreigners, right? So because we're discontent, one of the ways we deal with it is we blame it on people, right? We give away, we give away all our power. Yeah. And, and yeah, and because the power is inside and the focus is outside. Right. Okay. So, so we, so we end up living in heartache and heartache is our driving force.

36:14 Because then we think, well, if I make a million dollars, I'll be happy. And I had a friend I worked with and he said that to me. said, no, you won't. He said, what do mean? I said, well, when you make a million dollars, you'll find out you're not happy. And then you're going to say, I'll be happy when I make 10 million dollars. And he thought about it he said, Yeah, I think you're right. Because we try to do that. It's either the girl or it's the money or it's the status or it's the power or it's the conquest or it's whatever it is, driven, always undertaken in the hope that when we succeed, we will feel okay again. And it never works. I had a real world example, not using any names, but somebody who's been, I operate a bunch of businesses, but we have a pretty successful real estate company.

37:02 One of the realtors who's been with us for a long time came up to me and said, Hey, I'm going to share something with you. And, and I said, I already know so and so snow, so and so is going to get a divorce. yeah. When someone that was so he's, he looked at me he said, told us that no one told me. He said, how'd you know? I said, I just been watching. And so he went, what are you talking about? I said, yes. So I shared some things and I said, Hey, here's what sucks about the person who made the decision to get divorced. Here's what sucks about them is they've changed a lot of jobs over the past few years. their mother passed away. They've had, I said, what they don't know is they keep pointing the focus on problems in their lives with other people with jobs. said, here's what really sucks.

37:42 I'm sad. I'm not judgmental about it. They have to fix themselves first. I could tell you that's what's causing all this. Yeah. can tell you this is a really good one for relationship. When I met my ex, I saw the beauty in her. I saw the goddess. Honestly, it was like that. It was very powerful. And she saw the equivalent, the male equivalent in me. And so I thought my love will come from her and she thought her love will come from me. But neither of us had done our homework. We didn't know how to go to that unconditional love inside and bring it out. So we wanted it from the other person.

38:23 So we put that burden on the other person. She did it to me and I did it to her because we both hadn't done our homework. And guess what? We got disappointed because we both came up empty because neither of us could bring, well, if I can't get to the love in me and she can't get to the love in her, where the hell is the love in the relationship supposed to come from? Right? And so then basically that's how the relationship got destroyed. And honestly, that's how all relationships get destroyed. I've been talking a lot around my companies over the past two to three years. This is an evolution for myself. Don't know how I rose here. Don't know what, from what reading or following or internal conversation.

39:04 But I said, you all, the unlock is stopping judging yourself. And you stop, then you stop judging others. There's only, that's woke. Stop judging yourself. See, how do you stop judging? No, no, so how do you stop judging yourself? You gotta go to the place where love lives, because in love there is no judgment. There you go. Yep. But I'm real. I'm real about outcomes. I'm balancing this. Listen, this is still a journey of life, but I'm balancing all the, if I'm not getting the outcome I want, I do have honest reflection more all the time, but hey, I need to change something. It needs to be some different, different. But what I'm not doing is I'm not living in the judgment that causes anxiety and that causes grief and strife and depression.

39:47 I'm not doing all that. And so I started sharing that with other people. I said, I'm telling you all, I'm serious. What is alleviating me not needing to judge others, just seeing them for who they are. and just being present with them, whether it's good or not, is by you not doing it yourself. But more important than being present with them is being present with yourself. Because only when you're present with yourself, can you actually be with them, especially when they're not with themselves. Then you become an example for them to get at least a little bit of a hit of what it's like to be with themselves. The only way that I've truly been able to be present with people and be impactful and be intentional is to remove all of it and just be there and to listen and be a part.

40:30 And you can see everything happening, things they don't even see about themselves. You can see reasons why they're doing something that they have no clue. And that is truly an opportunity to help and influence, to lead them. Right. Yeah. And to be the example of a person living present in their own space. Yeah. And I had to grow. I mean, this is not, this isn't, this isn't. Yeah. Yeah, honestly, that's the most important thing that we could each do on this planet. Because all of the problems that we have come from not doing that and being discontent and then spreading the discontent in our expression of ourselves. Yeah. I'm in a sales organization here and I teach people.

41:10 said, yes, sales is relationships and sales isn't trying to sell any sales informing, be an educator, being a support person. But all I'm interested in now in selling anything to anybody is truly understanding and learning. Like, what do you need? What, what's going to be best for your outcome? How truly the thing I have, can it help you? Will it serve you? And if so, I'll show you. Yeah, and we're not selling you what you don't need and then running. No, and it's incredible what happens then because all the walls of the individual, when you're truly that person, all the walls of that customer or that potential client, they all go away. 100%. Yeah. That's it. In fact, it should not be called sales.

41:52 Shouldn't be. What should we name it? This is new book. Yeah, good idea. I've never, never thought about it, but I just realized right now, yeah, we shouldn't be calling it sales because nobody wants to be sold. So. yeah, we should, yeah, we just want someone to help us. We truly want someone to help us achieve the thing that we either think we need in the moment that we've set our eyes on to have a best outcome and we could all do. And sales would be, it's more like need fulfillment, right? So they need a couch, you know, and you sell chairs while you're not going to sell them a chair. But then what you should do is build a network of people that sell couches so you can refer them there and send them to the thing they need. And then the guy who sells the couches refers them back.

42:34 Well, there's all that that works too, yeah. Yeah. The, so how does this link. Trying to sell them what you got, whether they need it or not. That's insulting actually. It's a transaction. we say that, if we say relationships matter, then we need to stop being transactional, not just in sales and every part of our life with other human beings, with ourselves. And we can't do it in relationship if we haven't done it with ourselves. Yeah. A hundred percent. yes. What, you know, with today's world of, mean, I speak to it too. I'm not nearly as healthy as I should be. Like I can, I can make that statement and know whether I take the proper actions, but I know I'm in control. Like I, I tell people, I don't have any issue of cell.

43:16 I look in the mirror and I'm like, that double chin, those extra pounds, man, how it fits. I know exactly what I could do to alter and change that, but it has to be important enough. You have to feel enough. pain, has to be whatever. It'll be important if I ever get sick enough and I wish I did, but, I know that it's my responsibility. It's no one else's. And if I don't make the decision to get healthy and eat better, I actually don't even blame and judge myself. just know I didn't do it. Yeah. But so, but do you know why you don't do it? Why is it, why why is it there's things you know, you could do that would make quality of your life better. Why, why are you not doing it? I don't know, tell me why. I can tell you all the reasons why my brain makes it okay I don't.

43:58 You're not inspired. You're not inspired. Cause what happens when you get inspired. And I'll tell you in a minute how I learned that when you, when you're inspired, that frees energy. And when you have lots of energy, then changing a habit is not that hard. Or doing what you need to do to get better outcomes that you already know. You already have the information. It's not that hard. So I realized that when I was, because I was, was talking about health. fats was my topic, right? And we developed methods for making oils with health in mind. And then we promoted omega-3, omega-6 in the right balance, organic, in glass. I mean, we did it.

44:38 It was like anally OCD, but unbelievably good for health because of it, right? And I realized there were people like me and first I saw it in other people. And then it was like, yeah, I'm like that too. They had, went to every health guru that came to town and they took copious notes and they had stacks of writings from those lectures, like 18 inches tall, right? And they were, and they weren't putting anything into practice. And I started thinking about why is it? And it's like, okay, well, why is it that I don't do some of the things I know I could do? And I realized it's because they're not inspired.

45:18 They got all the information. but they ain't got the energy. Inspiration frees energy. And when you get inspired and it's like, when I'm saying, my God, my life is so incredible. I'm gonna do whatever it takes to be here as long as I can. Right? And I know what that requires. Right? But if I'm like kind of depressed and like, shit, everything's too much work. just give me the hamburger. Whatever it is, right? And if I get really depressed, I will destroy my own body because I just can't stand living with so little energy. So it's literally the level of energy comes from the degree of inspiration.

46:01 And the degree of inspiration comes from if you're in touch with the power, that solar energy fraction that is your life, that's your power. That's super powerful. Everything does everything in the body. It does it perfectly. Unless you interfere with your mind or you interfere with garbage that you eat, you know? So it runs that show. When you're in touch with that, you have power. You're in your power. When you're in your power, discipline is not that hard. Because in fact, you're not doing it out of discipline. You're doing it out of inspiration. And the thing is when you have enough pain, you'll make changes.

46:42 But when the pain goes, you stop. And even Tony will say things like, well, 95 % of the people make change out of pain, but it's usually not lasting because only 5 % of the population makes changes out of chasing a vision. And it's always more fun to chase a vision than to run away from pain. Where do you think inspiration, where does it come from? It's the natural shine of life into the world. And the more in touch you are, the more you are one with that energy that is your life. Like for instance, again, going back to the New Testament, it says, if your eye is single, your whole body will be filled with light.

47:26 Close your eyes. Close your eyes. Do you see light throughout your whole body? Now that we're talking about it, do. No, now you're imagining it. No, but the point is this, mostly when you close your eyes, don't see much light. Yeah, I saw it. I feel like it's there right here. Yeah. Yeah. And the deeper you go into that light, the more energy you have, the more clarity you also have. But the more energy you have and the easier it becomes to do what needs to be done. And whether you're talking about doing it for your health or you're doing it about saving the planet from human idiocy, right?

48:09 It's all on the same level. But you gotta be in your peace and you gotta be in that love. and you've got to be in that light and you need to do the homework and you cannot fix what needs to be fixed on the planet if you don't do that for. Yeah, correct me with a, you know, I have a, I, I'd taken a layman's approach a lot of times to nothing, you know, from a true psychological perspective, the deep dives you've done, you've studied the philosophers more than I have. I just have enough to get my brain fired, fired up, you know, but so often we talk about this world trauma and this word trauma now in society. And so I don't want to disassociate from these traumatic things that sometimes do happen that People didn't, they didn't try to bring them on themselves.

48:54 There's a whole debate around this, but something that maybe an adult did to a kid and that lives throughout your life. What I want to say to, you know, where I come from, people have way more difficult things. We have this alcoholic father and my, my siblings are still affected by that 20 something years after he died. And I made a statement to them. Some of them like 15 years ago, I said, you all. How long are you going to allow him from his grave to dictate the outcome of your life? It's not that it... That makes it like, that makes it sound like they're doing something kind of stupid, And so I use that because that's my own personal experience.

49:38 think the world lets me get away with being tough and hard about it. But where does your brain go with people that they're really stuck in that and they're still affected by the things that happen to them? Because what else? What else? tell people, I'm like, guys, I didn't do however he treated us. I didn't do that to me. He did. And honestly, he did it to me and us because he was so flawed individually as a human. He couldn't come out of this. I'm no part of what that was. Yeah. So what do we do? what, right. Let me talk about your father. Your father was an alcoholic, you said, right? yeah. Was he violent? No, not at all. didn't have any of the thing, just not present. family was really poor because of it. My mom had to step in and do all this stuff.

50:20 He just was literally. Non-existent because of it. So he was drunk all the time, pretty much. the time. And what's funny from his dad and then his grant all the and it's like, Hey, yeah. There's the content. alcoholism in the family? Yes, I could go deep on this subject. No, no, but the point is, it would apply. You could take it as far back as you want. You know, it would apply. This guy had the peace inside of him that I talk about, had the kingdom of heaven within him that Jesus talked about and said we should put first, had the love in him, had everything in him that is in a human being by nature.

51:02 Right? Was he in touch with it? Probably not, because if alcohol is your best experience, then you're missing a better experience that actually is beyond alcohol, beyond habits, and is built into your nature. So, even if he was violent and everybody got traumatized, Whatcha watching? through that. Sure, yeah, So in every human being who is a perpetrator of trauma is a peace and a love that they're not in touch with. It's almost like by definition, right? And everyone who has trauma imposed on them has peace and love within them that is not affected by the trauma.

51:49 Okay? And the cure of trauma, so, Let me back up a little bit. There are the peace, the love, the inspiration and the infinite awareness that is the big picture. Those four never change. Okay. But then between those, you have the body, the mind, emotions, other people, the natural environment. They're always changing. Leaves go up and the leaves fall down. The buds pop and then the cherries drop, right? So those are always changing. In the world of change, you cannot stop the change.

52:30 You may not like the change. But if you try to make the change not change, then you're gonna drive yourself nuts, okay? But in this world of change, there is something in you that doesn't change. And if you put your focus, like when you want constancy in your life, or you want stability in your life, or you want calmness in your life, or you want relaxation in your life, go to the place in you where they already live. And the way to deal with trauma, you you can be traumatized once and then spend 20 years every day traumatizing yourself through your mind by remembering that, by always focusing on it.

53:21 And there is some payoff for doing that. That's one of the reasons why people do that. Because people give you a shit that you then don't have to work for. So there's an aspect of that, but that's also not true for everybody. But the cure for trauma is when you find your way back to bringing your focus into the magnificence and the awesomeness of your own existence. Because then if you know how to do that and you may have to learn and it may take some practice, but then you become free of the trauma, Whereas sometimes 20 years later, whoever did some bad thing to you still owns you.

54:05 Why are you, and you're victimizing yourself every time you go there, when you could be going to a place that was not affected by the trauma. So that's not, I'm not minimizing that there are things that happened that should have never happened and that they were really painful. and that we got stuck in them because we didn't know what to do in those situations. That's real. But at the same time in every human being who's been traumatized, there is a magnificence that was not affected by any of that stuff. So how about, you know, so the end of trauma ends where that shift in focus is effectively made.

54:51 And it might, you might have to go and learn some technique. You know, I, I came out of a war. had lots of trauma in my life, right. But I had some very powerful experiences because I was looking for answers. Cause I said, God, there must be a better way to live than the way that I, know, I was a kid, I was a war baby. Then I was a refugee, then I was an orphan. Right. And it was like, God, there must be a better way to live than that. I'm going to find out how. And so my whole life has been about. finding out how can we, mean, 8 billion people could be living way better than you do. What do you think is happening with a lot of these- and what's, and it's in them and they need to find it within them.

55:35 And I got to a point where I said, okay, I know there's a perfection within me. know I'm not connected to it and I need to find someone who can show me step because I'm not getting it. I'm trying, but I'm not getting it. And I ran into somebody who showed me how to do a practice of bringing focus in said, do it once one hour every day. And I've been doing that for 53 years now. Is that a book? He has a book, it's called, Hear Yourself, sorry, How to Find Peace in a Noisy World. His name is Prem Rawat. I met him when he was six, when he was 14 and I was 30. And he just celebrated his 68th birthday.

56:18 And he just goes around the world talking about peace and helping people. they want to, if they want to know how to do a practice, he teaches them a practice. And Absolutely works, but the only reason it works is because the piece is already in there. Right? So it's just, do you, how do you just like make it a little easier for your focus to go inside instead of always going outside, chasing everything that's changing. What do you think's happening with a lot of these guys that are coming back with all this trauma from modern war and this Ayahuasca journey? you, have you dug deep into this with some of these guys and how they go on this retreat and these weekends and they come back and they just, what's the research? Have you gone deep into it?

56:58 What's happening there? I've never done ayahuasca because, you know, I'm 83. The ayahuasca was not around when I was a kid. I did psilocybin and I did mescaline and I did LSD. And I just saw something yesterday or day before that talks about what psychedelics do is they turn up the volume. on the part of the brain where the good feelings live and turns down the parts of the brain where anxiety and overwhelm and confusion live. And they literally change brain function. They also make new connections between brain cells.

57:42 And so there, and I know that my, actually in 1966, So this is a long time ago, 1966, I took LSD, was Sandos LSD from the pharmaceutical company, the high grade stuff, 60 micrograms. It's a very small dose. The heroic doses were 600 micrograms. I took 60 and I rolled on the floor laughing and the tears were running down my cheeks and I was laughing in time to Mozart music. And it struck me as the funniest thing I'd ever come across that Everything I was so studiously trying to master on the outside was already beautifully present on the inside.

58:25 That was the biggest joke. I mean, and that took, that literally melted the door off my war child personality. Huge door opener. So used properly, they want to be, you want to use it because they're powerful, right? So it helps to have some guidance. through those journeys by people who know what the journey is and by people who know what psychology is and how thinking works and who know something more are able to get into the calmer part of human nature. It can be very, very powerful, very, very helpful. If I was the dictator of the world, the benevolent dictator of the world, I would definitely make that available.

59:10 You know, I wouldn't be throwing it around in the streets, but I would make it, I would create the settings and I would make it available certainly for trauma, certainly for PTSD, but also depression, even end of life anxiety. I think it has major applications and gets better results than any of the mood altering pharmaceutical drugs. with all of their stupid side effects, including the serotonin reuptake inhibitors that are associated with increased suicide and increased homicide ideation. yeah, and my point is this.

59:52 It's not like, don't just damn it because you don't wanna see what it is. Find out what it is. Find out how it works. What are the goals? What is it take to, you know, and I've seen people like their lives literally changed, got completely reset, mind it, mind it. And then I stopped doing it. In the end, you wanna do the homework, you wanna do the practice, you wanna come back to yourself, come back to yourself, come back to yourself and go deeper and deeper and deeper because you're gonna discover that it's bottomlessly. beautiful to be alive and you don't need anything to go there once you know how to go there.

1:00:36 But I was certainly LSD was a door opener for me in that direction. Yeah. If you're right, we tend to beginning, we've been doing this in almost an hour now. We could go for three or four. That's not a no problem at all. Yeah, there's a but you know what, you know what I really like about you? You're, you're very grounded and you ask really simple grounded questions. I think with talking about that, no judgment, I think the agendas went away too. Right. It's whatever moment you're in seek to understand what's happening. What's the origin? What are the unlocks right without being threatened by whatever the response is. Yeah.

1:01:16 Yeah. I, I, I, I tell you a was, you know, after I stopped doing psychedelics because it can be hard on your body. And I said, I get one body. need to look after it. So I, I'm not doing any for two, two years. And as, but then it's like, okay, but I'm still trying to figure out who I am and what should I do? You know? So like, and so I decided. At one point I didn't do any psychedelics, so I decided to get the Red Letter edition. You know what that is? No, tell me though, I think I should know, I hear it. So it's a King James version of the Bible. Everything Jesus said is printed in red ink and everything else in that Bible is printed in black ink.

1:02:01 And I got it because one day it occurred to me, well, if I was to model myself after somebody that I know from history or that I have any sense of, who would that be? said, you know, I think Jesus would be cool. And then I started reading, And it says, you know, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. So like, okay, well, wow. Where was he coming from to say that? Right? And then it goes on and this, word became flesh and dwelt amongst us full of grace and truth. And the hair goes up on the back of my head when I say that. And I say, okay, so you don't write poetry without feeling, right?

1:02:44 Feeling inspires poetry. So I said, okay, I want to know what John felt that inspired that poetry. And then like maybe a week or two later, I said, no, why am I doing John? I'm interested in Jesus. I want to know what Jesus felt that made him live like he did and say what he did and do what he did. And nobody said it wasn't possible, but of course, how do you do it? I'm 20, I'm 2000 years late to the party. So I got the Red Letter edition, focused on what he said, didn't ask anybody interpreted. to interpret it for me, but read it and said, okay, what does that mean? know, kingdom of heaven was in you, right? What you do to the one of the least of these that you do to me.

1:03:26 King, he's in everybody. yeah, well, that's true. He's in the kingdom of heaven anyway. that's so, so, and I started going through it and putting little things to the test and had just had a magical summer. And then this group came along. They were called themselves the Jesus People's Army. should have been a warning to me, because army was not a good word in my lexicon, but I missed the cue, because I thought we're all gonna get together. They're all trying to figure out just like I am, and we're all gonna share our stories, and we're all gonna talk about the magical things that have happened, and we're all gonna leave the evening enriched. So I went to their coffee house and I sat down at a chair and immediately this guy swooped back next to me in the chair next to me.

1:04:10 That should have been my second warning and I missed that one too. I didn't introduce myself. I just looked him in the eyes and I said, it must be possible to see God and live. Cause we were told as kids, know, God loves you unconditionally, makes a whole world for you and keeps you alive when you're asleep. But if you look at him, he kills you. That's like. How's that supposed to work? So I said that to him and I thought this would be the beginning of a beautiful deep conversation about a really deep subject. Well, he totally wasn't. He jumped out of his chair and he's bouncing around the room with his arms wildly flying around his head, screaming at me at the top of his lungs.

1:04:51 You're from the devil, you're from the antichrist, get out! So I go slinking out and standing on the sidewalk and I'm saying, well, haven't seen God, maybe I'm supposed to not ask a question like that. You know, cause we were also told as kids, there are certain questions you're not supposed to ask. They wouldn't tell us what those questions were because knowing me, instead of told me what question not to ask, I would have asked them anyway. You know, cause I was always, I was always, I was like that, right? And. And then I got really confused and really kind of desperate. And it was just this feeling of, I'm not like, that stupid guy is like, no, I just really want to know.

1:05:33 I just really want to know what is true here. Right. So I hitchhiked out into nature. That's where I used to go to clear my head when things got really wild. And I ended up on a West coast beach, completely deserted, just me, the sand, the logs, the water and the sky. And somebody had draped plastic over a log, made a little dwelling. You had to crawl in it, but if it rained, it wasn't going to rain on me. So said, okay, there's my hotel for the weekend. And I go, I crawled in, fell asleep and in the middle of the night, woke bolt upright from dead asleep. And there was a being made of light.

1:06:14 Wasn't, couldn't tell if it was male or female. Couldn't tell if it was old or young. Didn't have wings. So wasn't an angel. It's just like me thinking about it, right? And that being embodied a message, didn't say anything, didn't have a label on it, it was just there. And I could put words to the message and the message was, I am come not to judge, but to love. I am come not to judge, but to love. And what triggered that was you talking about not judging. And instantly my confusion evaporated. Instantly, I have never had a question about what the message of the master was. I am come not to judge, but to love.

1:06:57 Wow. And I don't know, I don't know a more succinct summary of the message of the master. So that was their message to humanity. But then I started thinking, it's like, well, what is that? Okay, well I was on a, you know, chasing Christ. So was that Christ or was that life? or was that spirit or was that soul? And I came to the conclusion that they're all the same. And it's true because the master in your body is life. And the message of life to your body, I am come not to judge, but to love.

1:07:40 And life is perfect health. And life runs the entire show and life is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient in your body. It's the master in of, for, and throughout your body. that was the, yeah. And, and, and that also was the culmination of what I had tried to find out in university studies. Cause I went into biology cause I wanted to know what life is, but we only studied form and function. We never got a handle on life. I did psychology study of soul. We studied thoughts, beliefs, and emotions. Never studied soul. I went into medicine to study health because they call that healthcare.

1:08:23 We only studied disease. And there was the, in that one, in that one appearance was the answer to the question that I had been asking from way back about what is the essential nature of things. So anyway, that was. No, thank you for sharing that. Ever since that moment, it seems like I'm assuming everything you've done, you've poured in that experience, that perspective, you've continued to move forward and grow. Books you've written, the stages you've been on, companies you've started. It seems like it's always been with that nature and that spirit. I've, yeah, that completely reset my life.

1:09:04 And, but I didn't tell anybody for 31 years. Yeah, well sometimes you gotta do things in the dark until they're ready to come to life. Yeah, because, because it was my question and my answer, and there was nothing in that experience that said go and tell the world. And it wasn't until 9-11. 9-11, my take home was discontent people will always spread discontent. And if people who know what contentment is, and I'm one of the people who claims to know that if we don't spread contentment faster than they spread discontent, guess where we're headed? And so then I started, so that was 2001, I started to think about, so how do I talk about this?

1:09:45 Because I had the experience, but how do you talk about something like that and not make it, you know, another formula that doesn't work? But how do you actually talk about it live and in a way that maybe people will recognize there's something maybe in that direction for them. that, you know, whether it's trauma they're dealing with or whether it's, you know, vision they're looking for, whatever it is. So then, so now it's become part of it. And then on that, on that building, if total, you know, a field of total health based in nature and human nature and a field of human nature that can be studied and learned and should be part of the The central part of the curriculum starting in grade school seems like it really makes sense because like I said, we could just all be living way better than Where does contentment, does it some sit somewhere by itself?

1:10:46 Because in my mind of all these goals and, accomplishments I want for life and, true, even if you want to help other people live a better life and, lead them more to a path that's gonna. It's like, well, you can't just stay in contentment for where currently where you are. So where does contentment sit with productivity with impacting the world? Where does that sit? Yes, you can. You could be content. I could be content and because contentment and peace and calmness and tranquility and equanimity, it's all the same. And it's an experience and that experience does not depend on your doing other than bringing your focus inside.

1:11:26 So there's, guess you could call that a doing, right? You move your focus, right? And that contentment is unconditional. You experience it because it's there, not because you did something. When you're helping people, you get contentment, but it's short because it's conditional, right? And then you're not helping somebody. Then you got to say, okay, I need to help somebody else because I want to feel some more contentment. But it's better if you get your contentment by going to the place where it always is within you. And then you go out and you help people because it's in natural expression rather than let me help some people so I can feel content.

1:12:11 Cause that's selfish. And that means you haven't done the homework. Right? Cause if you need to help people to find, to get to heaven, or you need to do certain things to get a thing, that's because you haven't done the homework yet. You are, it's not like you haven't done the homework. It's like you, you need to do more homework to get to a place where love, Contentment is who you are. And helpfulness is who you are. And it's just a natural expression. Throw something out here I've never shared on the podcast. have all these conversations about where my mind's arrived in life. And when you're talking politics and religion, that sets off a lot of people, but this isn't in any one of those areas.

1:12:55 Please, let's do it. I've made this statement to a few people that the idea of what's necessary here on earth to get to heaven is the most selfish perspective idea I've ever heard. Yeah, because we already live in heaven on earth. And we're supposedly only doing the things here to make sure we get there. Yeah, well, that's selfish. That's it. idea of heaven is the most selfish idea I've ever heard of in my life. And it's ego driven and people say that about even Mother Teresa. you know, Mother Teresa went, but she had a thing about the Catholic church and the Catholic heaven and the, and the, things you need to do.

1:13:39 I don't know to what extent she, she was doing it just from that because I didn't meet her. Right. But whether she was doing it to get to heaven selfishly or whether she was doing it because it was just her natural expression. Right. The natural expression is definitely was within her just because it's also within me and it's also within you. And it's also within every discontent person who's trying to work their way into heaven on this planet. Yeah. So let me, let me wrap up with this one. Cause I really could, we could, I got my team of people probably hitting the red light on me, which I, you know, is what it is. But, what do you think in all, in all, the, your past 45 to 50 years in the space of engaging with humans and, leadership and your evolution and everything you've learned, is there a moment that you've had that you felt like you were most impactful?

1:14:30 Is there a moment that really stands, it stands out in your mind and says, well, I really made a difference there. No, I don't think like that. And again, I don't think like that because I'm not, I'm not, you know, it's like, I'm doing it because it needs to be done. I'm not doing it because of the perks for me. Like when I worked with oils, you know, I started, I developed a method for making oils with health in mind. I'm in the Canadian health food associate and all of fame for doing that. Right. I didn't do it for that. And the money was pretty good. I didn't do it for that. That was never about money for me.

1:15:11 I was already, because I felt cared for. Even I got poisoned by pesticides, but I still felt cared for. I knew what I did. I knew what I needed to change. But I was doing it because... I knew it would help a lot of people because I found out 99 % of the population doesn't get enough omega-3s for optimum health. And so it was like, oh my God, we could help almost everybody. And that feels good here. That feels good here. But I wasn't, it's like, there was that realization, but it was never about money and it was never about fame. It was just like this. It needs to be done because it can be done and I can do it.

1:15:54 Right? I'm doing it because I want to. It's so good. was thinking, I was thinking more of the question when I said, did you realize not that you intentionally made the difference or the impact? I just didn't know if there was a moment that you threw reflection that you truly had this moment of. Man, they really, that really helped them. That really grew not again, not from a monetary perspective. Yeah, I did have a moment where I said, my God, if we could make oils with health in mind and get them out to people, the 99 % that aren't getting enough for optimum health. my God, we could help almost everybody. And that felt so good. That was kind of the drive behind it. Cause it was like, okay, this is worth doing.

1:16:35 This is worth doing. Yeah. It wasn't about money, but it was worth doing the idea of raising quality of life. That's been my buzz. That's been my buzz since I was six years old. And when I listened to adults argue about stupid things and I just looked at it, like, always made me feel uneasy. A six year old war baby, you know? And, and then one day I listened to one of those arguments and feel it, felt uneasy and said, man, there must be a way that people can live in harmony. And this little cocky voice that doesn't know how complicated everything says, and I'm going to find out how. So that's so, so that thing has been, that's been my drive. all pretty much since I was six, but there are moments of insight and I have a lot of those and it's not coming out of books.

1:17:22 Some of I read books and I've read lots of books, but a lot of the insights now just come because I'm in a place where insight happens. Like Einstein said, he says, 99 times I think and think and think and I get nothing. And one day I stopped thinking and I float in silence and the answer comes to. So he was like a mystic, that's like a mystic state. I'm in that state quite a bit. We continue this by the way. We could do more of it. Yes, this awesome thing. Thank you for sharing this. This is really beneficial and impactful for people. Yeah. I mean, we'll do all the tags and all the hits and where to find you and all the social media stuff.

1:18:06 But, is there just one place that just utahrasmus.com like it just go there and they'll find you. That's one, yeah, I'm on Facebook and I'm starting on 2026. I'm going to stop posting stuff. I'm going to focus on total health and human nature. And I'm going to just drive all my social media that way and my website as Thank you for taking the time for sharing this with us. It's much appreciated. Well, thank you for putting me on.