#170 - Mike & Kass Lazerow Return — “Shoveling Sh*t” and the Truth About Building Companies Together

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Mark, they don't like it.

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They don't like, this is just not how we do things.

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If we don't like something, we're just gonna quit.

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It's okay, and you will be just an employee over and over and over and over again, and
that's fine.

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But if you would like a life that affords X, Y, and Z, this is what you have to do.

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All right, so Mike and Kass Lazerow welcome to the party.

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um I just had a great 15 minutes sitting here talking to you guys.

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I want just podcasts to be real life interactions and conversations with people, not
interviews, right?

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So we just talked about Mike's hat and his hat says death.

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And I'm like, man, we better touch on this really quick.

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So then the podcast people don't think like we're bringing some, I don't know, life and
death situation here, even though entrepreneurship can feel that way.

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So it's Liquid Death, which is a beverage brand, but it's really a lifestyle brand.

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Sell ton of merch.

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This is a hat.

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It actually does say Liquid.

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It says Liquid up here.

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Cas got this for me for the holidays.

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This was my big holiday gift.

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I'm not wearing it.

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So was there some other infirmary going on with getting him to?

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It's okay.

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So hey, this book that you guys put out, I think you hit New York Times bestseller was
like in June of 25, June or July.

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Just go to your social media, you were pumped.

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It's like, do you guys really need another success in life?

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Huh?

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Well, I think the way we look at it is if we're going to write a book about doing hard
work, we got to work hard and we want to win.

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what's winning look like when it comes to writing books?

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Because everybody thinks they want to write.

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To me, it was getting on the New York Times Best Seller.

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It was actually USA Today.

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That was the goal.

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We were told we couldn't do the New York Times because of the title, Shoveling Shit, a
Love Story.

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And we wouldn't sell enough and, you know, it's kind of a niche entrepreneurship book, but
people loved it and we sold a lot and the New York Times put it on the list, so we're

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excited.

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So if you guys just made a habit of just doing things that people said you can't do.

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Well, it's really fuels us.

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I will say that.

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Like when we started all of our companies, we'd go, you know, to Sand Hill Road and go to
the biggest VCs in the world and they'd say, oh, wait, you guys are related?

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Like, you're married?

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We can't, we don't do business.

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And we'd like, fine.

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It just fueled us.

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VC world now you guys putting that VC hat on because you funded over 100 businesses,
right?

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So what have you taken from that experience of getting all the no's?

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Did they make the right decision to say all those no's or have you learned a way to say
some yeses from maybe living through that experience in life that they wouldn't?

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made the worst decision.

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I mean, we returned the fund for many of these funds.

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I mean, when you sell for close to a billion dollars, those early investors who are
investing like sub 100 million, know, sub 20 million, we're talking about 80 times your

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money.

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So did they make the right decision?

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No.

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Everyone who said no.

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those are the people I remember.

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I don't remember who invested.

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The people who invested, people are like, yeah, I was in your company.

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I was like, were you?

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But everyone who said no, I remember and I see them all over the place.

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You're not a competitive person by nature, but you remember the notes.

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do I hold grudges but you just remember when people reject you.

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Dating, business, whatever.

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That's a lot.

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That's why when the first person liked me I'm like let's get married.

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That sounds great.

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Super great.

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So if you don't have, you don't hold grudges, but you remember them.

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That's a very, when you remember them, there's a chip on your shoulder or there is a
little bit of grudge.

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Like I had, that's one of the things I've had to conquer in life is not hold those grudges
against everyone that did me wrong or could have treated me better.

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You know, I took control of my life once you do that, but it's hard.

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So it's weird to hear someone say, cause I like it, I'm all in.

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I mean, it's a weird thing to basically remember and not hold grudge when you think about
it.

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But at the same time, we're all doing our jobs, right?

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I pitch the company as an entrepreneur.

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They have money that they're allocating, which isn't theirs.

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They're basically managing other people's money, the VCs.

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And most VCs maybe do eight to 10 deals a year.

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So for us, we'll look at a thousand deals to do eight, right?

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And so when someone passes, they're just doing their job and making a bad decision.

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They're not saying that you're a bad person.

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They're saying that it doesn't fit what we're doing.

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And so it's a little different than if someone like personally offends or does something
that like screws me, right?

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Then like you're dead to me.

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Like those, I remember not that it's a grudge.

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It's like shame on me if like it happens again.

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also say the same thing with when employees, we didn't have a lot of employees who left
Buddy Media, our last company, um but with Gov.com, if we had anybody leave, he was like,

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bye, see ya.

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Like, don't let the door hit you.

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He never wanted to celebrate people leaving.

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It was just kind of like, you're gone.

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Do you so then going back?

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Thinking can you find opportunities maybe now as you can see yourself VCS?

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Like you don't like the term

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like the term.

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I'd like to be like an entrepreneur partner.

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So we're not VCs in the sense that we're not trying to aggregate tons of assets, right,
under management that we then manage and make.

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We're technically, but we're not building that as like our next business.

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We happen to invest in tech.

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lot of the money is ours, even in the funds.

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And we also own businesses.

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We get a lot more enjoyment out of owning businesses and helping entrepreneurs succeed.

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So the investment stuff, it's easy to write the check.

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But where it gets fun is when the entrepreneur starts reaching their dreams.

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And there's nothing better than investing in someone the very first check and see them
have a multi-billion dollar exit.

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I'm forgetting a lot.

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Probably it's early.

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really, really helps the companies.

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And I think that I do, but like, think when it comes to like monetization, sales,
networking, business models, that's you.

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And so I think that's the rewarding part is helping that puzzle.

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And when you are just a VC, you don't get a lot of

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like validation or credit, like they don't listen to you as much.

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So we like if we can actually help and certainly we're not going to like impose our views.

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But when you can help and be there for an entrepreneur and see them succeed, it's uh as if
you have succeeded too.

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oh

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touched on, I wanna come back a little bit later and talk about it.

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One, about dreams.

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There's something weird about entrepreneurship and just dreams.

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There's something fascinating about the combination of the two.

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And then also how you guys now evaluate, if people buy the book Shoveling Ship, how you
evaluate this go system.

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And these six steps.

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So I'd like to talk about that a little bit to say, not just about how you evaluate
companies, but is that how entrepreneurs should build their companies.

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So I'd like to speak to that.

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But I wanna touch on first, so in the book.

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You dedicated it to your kids.

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Yeah.

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Why I've never I don't think I've ever heard to your kids because you have three right?

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Usually it's a I don't.

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Maybe I've read a lot of books, but I don't remember it standing out like it did when you
guys said it.

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Thanks

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I think there's probably a small part of guilt that still remains to for both of us that
they took the brunt.

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That's that's what it says.

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Like you took the brunt of our entrepreneurship and they also propelled us forward.

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Right.

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And so we wanted to thank them and acknowledge that we weren't there as much, which is
great because when they all three saw they still they kind of were like, what do mean?

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Like you were there, which is a great feeling.

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But we also wanted to acknowledge that like we didn't just do this for ourselves.

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Why do you think you have that feeling if they all were sitting here and say, what do
mean?

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You guys are awesome.

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And it was, was fan.

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Why do you think you have that?

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I mean, you probably don't have as much as I do, but moms just, we can't win.

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It's a mom guilt.

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You cannot win.

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Yeah.

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100 % of time you are not doing enough.

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You haven't figured it out, all of it.

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There's not one mom.

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I think people can, I think moms can compartmentalize, but I don't think there's a mom in
the world that's thinking like, I am doing it great.

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Like you don't wake up like that.

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Do you think this is the same issue we deal with as entrepreneurs who really want
greatness?

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Yes, in a different capacity, I think.

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You know, with being an entrepreneur, you have to be ready to be like a failure all the
time, right?

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Because you're literally failing until you succeed.

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That's really what it is.

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It's just you're just maneuvering the boat to get to the to the land, right?

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That that's the promised land.

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So, yes, it's suffering.

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Like, I think being entrepreneurs helped us suffer being parents.

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Right.

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um But it didn't make us better parents, if that makes sense.

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It's not like I really thought that I could bring it

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all my team leadership to kids and then it just doesn't work and you can't put your kids
on a pimp you can't fire them all that kind of stuff can't do a 360 review how great would

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that be I'm gonna try to little do little stuff and they were just it just doesn't

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When you look at having kids, companies, farming, right?

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These are like exercises where you're growing stuff, right?

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Yeah, like you're going from like seeds or just an idea, you know, to like growing a crop,
growing a company, growing kids.

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Kids are the hardest because your levers aren't as much like there's shit involved in all
of it, right?

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Shoveling shit, like literally on the farm, you're shoveling shit.

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Company, you get to work, shit hits the fan.

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Kids, diapers, right, obviously.

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Yeah, with companies, you can pivot, right?

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You can go different direction.

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You can fire people.

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You don't have those levers with kids.

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You're not going to fire them.

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You're not going to pivot like, oh, here are your new parents, right?

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You may change locations and stuff.

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And so you basically.

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Kids drain your money, drain your energy for hopefully an ROI at some point.

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Which we're waiting for.

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And we have a 24 year old, so we're still waiting.

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There's no ROI on kits, so I like to have perspective of goals that I can actually see
happening.

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Maybe it's grandchildren.

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I don't know.

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You don't think ROIs ever like laying back just like you guys are on some vacation, just
the two of you and you look over something good happened.

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You got some good news.

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It's just a little fist pump like.

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There are many wins, but it is like I think you hit it on the head like it is like
entrepreneurship.

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There's the it's a long grind, right?

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With parenting and yes, there are little mini wins like I remember I was not into like the
baby phase and you have to wait like 10 weeks for the kid to smile at you.

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Like that's that's crazy town.

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But like, yeah, parenting.

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But entrepreneurs in general, we focus on the stuff that's going wrong.

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Right?

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So real entrepreneurs aren't out there like celebrating little wins in the back of their
minds like, this is screwed up.

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We got to figure that out.

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I need a new person here.

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I need to up level.

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need to kind of fire.

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need to be and with kids, it's the same thing.

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Like you're only as happy as you're like these happy kid.

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Right.

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So you could have like two of them doing incredible, but one is like kind of really
flailing.

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And that's, a parent, that's what you're diving into.

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That sucks.

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That's self-imposed.

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Instantly, the moment you have a kid, it's like, listen, we we're 24 years in so far.

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But it's funny, in the book you all talk about that what you found is, is that it's
important to focus on your strengths.

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So you're forced to look at the weaknesses and the failures and everything, but in
business, you make the argument for you all, right, to lean in and focus on your

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strengths.

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Yes and no.

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I think we lean in and look at our strengths but I think it's more that we complement each
other, right?

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So that his weaknesses and my weaknesses aren't amplified.

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It's that our puzzle piece is perfect match.

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m

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going to be that way?

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No.

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I mean, you never know because we're building, you know, entrepreneurs building
businesses.

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You don't know what's going to happen.

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You tell yourself stories.

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You kind of have a vision and anyone who says they know what's going to happen with a
marriage and a relationship is bullshit.

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We got married when I was 25.

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I didn't know shit about shit.

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they read the book, you're going to find out the totally like unromantic way that you
propose.

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You all pick up the book and read it.

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So and that she said, yes, she's an amazing.

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She's an amazing woman.

226
00:13:58,164 --> 00:13:59,653
m

227
00:13:59,653 --> 00:14:01,330
say this.

228
00:14:02,624 --> 00:14:08,867
I think early on we figured out, like, I remember doing this, like, talk with you.

229
00:14:08,867 --> 00:14:15,750
And I think it was, I think it was at, um, little street apartment where I said, okay, it
was like a Saturday morning.

230
00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:17,201
We'd just moved in together.

231
00:14:17,201 --> 00:14:19,552
And I think that's where you really like learn everything.

232
00:14:19,552 --> 00:14:21,783
Like, and I said, okay.

233
00:14:21,783 --> 00:14:24,164
And I came out with like a mop.

234
00:14:24,164 --> 00:14:28,346
We lived in the apartment for a week and like the toilet scrubber.

235
00:14:28,346 --> 00:14:30,147
like, which one do you want?

236
00:14:30,147 --> 00:14:31,587
And he's like, wait, what?

237
00:14:33,088 --> 00:14:39,691
And I remember him saying, look, I'll do this stuff, but I hate doing laundry.

238
00:14:39,991 --> 00:14:41,922
And I was like, oh, OK, cool, great.

239
00:14:41,922 --> 00:14:43,042
I'll take over laundry.

240
00:14:43,042 --> 00:14:47,284
And then we got to having kids.

241
00:14:47,284 --> 00:14:49,235
I was like, I hate the mornings.

242
00:14:49,235 --> 00:14:50,915
He's like, well, I hate the nights.

243
00:14:50,915 --> 00:14:52,176
So that kind of worked out.

244
00:14:52,176 --> 00:14:53,466
And we saw how we were doing it.

245
00:14:53,466 --> 00:14:56,077
And then he would say something like, you know.

246
00:14:56,077 --> 00:14:57,856
um

247
00:14:57,856 --> 00:15:03,338
I can't do anything that has multiple sequential tasks like this in a row.

248
00:15:03,338 --> 00:15:05,062
I can do three big things a day.

249
00:15:05,062 --> 00:15:06,654
And I was like, okay, great.

250
00:15:06,654 --> 00:15:08,055
Well, I can do all this work for me.

251
00:15:08,055 --> 00:15:09,496
Just give that to me.

252
00:15:09,496 --> 00:15:11,310
And so we slowly figured it out.

253
00:15:11,310 --> 00:15:12,830
did the same thing in business.

254
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:18,790
And so I think, man, you just talked about communication at the highest level, which is
essential to running these businesses.

255
00:15:18,790 --> 00:15:24,886
And I found that communication, personally, I know what you guys think, but communication
is most important when things are going to shit.

256
00:15:24,886 --> 00:15:27,197
Yes, it's not always stop.

257
00:15:27,197 --> 00:15:28,588
it's when you over community

258
00:15:28,588 --> 00:15:29,989
Yeah.

259
00:15:29,989 --> 00:15:36,343
So you two have been making these practical decisions about your whole life from the
beginning.

260
00:15:36,704 --> 00:15:48,312
When people pick up the book, uh it's fascinating because you are giving exposure to
really what entrepreneurship really is, your personal life and how that molds with uh

261
00:15:48,312 --> 00:15:51,173
raising kids and with growing all these businesses.

262
00:15:51,614 --> 00:15:55,616
you decided to take your honeymoon.

263
00:15:55,677 --> 00:15:57,388
Two reasons why

264
00:15:57,388 --> 00:15:58,519
you went where you went.

265
00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:02,440
You're like, well, we could go to the Caribbean, but then that's kind of hurricane season.

266
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,202
And then if we go to La Jolla, we can get more work done.

267
00:16:05,202 --> 00:16:07,242
I just shook my head when I read that in the book.

268
00:16:07,242 --> 00:16:09,183
I'm like, come on guys, right?

269
00:16:09,183 --> 00:16:11,824
You're taking your honeymoon where you knew you could get more work done.

270
00:16:11,824 --> 00:16:15,278
You've been making those practical decisions together since day one.

271
00:16:15,278 --> 00:16:19,778
Yeah, we had so it was an interesting time where we had golf.com.

272
00:16:19,958 --> 00:16:23,638
It was, you know, before the dot com crash 1999.

273
00:16:23,638 --> 00:16:26,038
We also I also had a public company.

274
00:16:26,038 --> 00:16:31,398
My first company had like merged with another one to go on public pre dot com crash.

275
00:16:31,698 --> 00:16:40,938
And we were starting to feel there was an opportunity to sell golf.com, which we
eventually did to a company called Chipshot and that to buy it back and all this stuff.

276
00:16:40,938 --> 00:16:42,470
And so.

277
00:16:42,946 --> 00:16:46,688
We knew that we could do other trips in our life.

278
00:16:46,688 --> 00:16:58,566
This wasn't the end all be all, but we really wanted to get golf.com over the goal line
with this acquisition and we spent a lot of the time on that.

279
00:16:58,566 --> 00:17:02,758
we didn't have money for a big honeymoon at the time.

280
00:17:03,054 --> 00:17:04,377
Can you call family?

281
00:17:04,642 --> 00:17:05,732
for honeymoon?

282
00:17:06,967 --> 00:17:12,078
I mean, we could have, but it didn't seem like an existential thing to call family.

283
00:17:12,078 --> 00:17:14,900
I think you're talking about these practical decisions.

284
00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:19,153
I think it's almost like practical decision making.

285
00:17:19,153 --> 00:17:23,547
Things that we didn't, we just didn't have a high value put on.

286
00:17:23,547 --> 00:17:26,699
We have to go to Tahiti, right?

287
00:17:26,699 --> 00:17:28,350
And we have to do that.

288
00:17:28,591 --> 00:17:37,797
We were so kind of just grounded in, we'll be okay, we'll figure out another year to do a
honeymoon, right?

289
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,903
You already focused on building the businesses then at a big level.

290
00:17:40,903 --> 00:17:42,575
I you already were, you were in business.

291
00:17:42,575 --> 00:17:51,514
But did you understand that making that practical right decision to not put money on a
credit card, not ever extend yourself for a honeymoon, that this could hamper us on having

292
00:17:51,514 --> 00:17:52,174
some cash?

293
00:17:52,174 --> 00:17:53,154
Did you know that?

294
00:17:53,154 --> 00:18:05,501
I think we both came into the relationship like he was taught by your, I think Harold,
your stepdad, that you don't ever buy anything unless you can pay for it fully, period

295
00:18:05,501 --> 00:18:06,662
pencil down.

296
00:18:07,162 --> 00:18:13,094
And I think we just had that, I mean, theory our whole life.

297
00:18:13,094 --> 00:18:14,715
Can you have a different approach now?

298
00:18:14,715 --> 00:18:23,036
Because you go out in the world and there's people, you'll have, without quoting names,
somebody that says, pay cash for everything, but then to really grow substantial wealth,

299
00:18:23,036 --> 00:18:25,944
you need to use leverage and you need to borrow some money.

300
00:18:25,944 --> 00:18:26,694
that's different.

301
00:18:26,694 --> 00:18:33,543
mean, business entrepreneurship, like we happen to build software companies that needed
investment, right?

302
00:18:33,543 --> 00:18:37,288
So we kind of are taking on other people's money, right?

303
00:18:37,288 --> 00:18:38,478
That we owe them.

304
00:18:38,478 --> 00:18:40,678
What's the responsibility when you do that?

305
00:18:41,294 --> 00:18:48,456
So, mean, when we went out and raised money for our funds, we basically did two things.

306
00:18:48,456 --> 00:18:51,357
One is we warehouse some of the deals in the fund.

307
00:18:51,357 --> 00:18:53,558
So we did the deals personally.

308
00:18:53,558 --> 00:18:55,038
And those turned out to be great.

309
00:18:55,038 --> 00:18:58,459
Liquid death, scope lease sold for five billion in cash.

310
00:18:58,479 --> 00:19:03,300
The other thing we did is anytime we asked for money, we put in our own money.

311
00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:09,518
And so our first fund, you know, we had a big piece of the fund was the partner money.

312
00:19:09,824 --> 00:19:11,095
which I love.

313
00:19:11,095 --> 00:19:15,397
So I don't mind losing money if we're all in it together.

314
00:19:15,738 --> 00:19:16,178
Right?

315
00:19:16,178 --> 00:19:18,380
So we win together, we lose together.

316
00:19:18,380 --> 00:19:19,791
And so something doesn't go well.

317
00:19:19,791 --> 00:19:23,664
It's like, yeah, like, I feel awful that I lost your money.

318
00:19:23,664 --> 00:19:25,725
We've had deals, we've lost money.

319
00:19:26,686 --> 00:19:28,967
I lost five times the amount, right?

320
00:19:28,967 --> 00:19:30,478
Plus my time for managing.

321
00:19:30,478 --> 00:19:35,011
So we went into it with all the right intentions.

322
00:19:35,011 --> 00:19:35,812
It didn't work out.

323
00:19:35,812 --> 00:19:36,702
That's what happens.

324
00:19:36,702 --> 00:19:37,613
Right?

325
00:19:38,174 --> 00:19:39,034
The

326
00:19:39,552 --> 00:19:44,663
great thing about the math of investing is you can only lose one time your money.

327
00:19:44,723 --> 00:19:47,204
You can make a thousand times your money.

328
00:19:47,404 --> 00:19:50,435
And so it's not about what you get wrong.

329
00:19:50,435 --> 00:19:55,846
It's about do you get enough right to create real wealth on the investing side?

330
00:19:55,846 --> 00:19:58,607
When you're an entrepreneur, we were all in, right?

331
00:19:58,607 --> 00:20:07,330
Like none of this would be possible if Buddy Media doesn't sell for close to a billion
dollars because then you have real capital to do what you want.

332
00:20:07,330 --> 00:20:08,450
You have freedom.

333
00:20:09,388 --> 00:20:12,520
time, you buy back time, you could do what you want.

334
00:20:12,581 --> 00:20:16,944
And you have playing chips to kind of play the game.

335
00:20:17,045 --> 00:20:19,657
Having said that, we still don't love leverage.

336
00:20:19,657 --> 00:20:21,229
We still love debt.

337
00:20:21,229 --> 00:20:23,231
We would rather be able to sleep at night.

338
00:20:23,231 --> 00:20:26,864
We would rather like how much do you need?

339
00:20:26,864 --> 00:20:27,284
Right.

340
00:20:27,284 --> 00:20:28,295
We love making money.

341
00:20:28,295 --> 00:20:32,279
We're capitalists, but we're not going to leverage our future.

342
00:20:32,279 --> 00:20:36,012
God forbid the world falls apart or like turns against us.

343
00:20:36,014 --> 00:20:39,034
We don't want to be in a position where we're stressed again.

344
00:20:39,034 --> 00:20:41,294
so, it's just the way we lose.

345
00:20:43,394 --> 00:20:46,514
Yeah, early on and every day.

346
00:20:46,994 --> 00:20:48,601
It never went away.

347
00:20:48,601 --> 00:20:49,220
with kids.

348
00:20:49,220 --> 00:20:50,144
you just.

349
00:20:50,144 --> 00:20:50,967
Yeah.

350
00:20:50,967 --> 00:20:51,888
Yeah.

351
00:20:53,298 --> 00:20:56,460
No, I mean, everyone has their own Michigan, right?

352
00:20:56,460 --> 00:20:57,621
I think we're better at it.

353
00:20:57,621 --> 00:21:08,880
definitely think, I think one of our superpowers is being able to do a lot of stuff that
most people can't do at once.

354
00:21:08,901 --> 00:21:09,761
So.

355
00:21:10,124 --> 00:21:23,000
you know, having, you know, health issue in the extended family and having to like travel
to see that person like when my dad was in the hospital and still running a business and

356
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,001
still being accountable to the 300 people that we had.

357
00:21:26,001 --> 00:21:35,160
ah And then, you know, Vivian, our daughter, breaking her elbow in three places, things
that I think would slow most people down.

358
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,467
We are very good in crisis.

359
00:21:37,467 --> 00:21:40,148
We are very, very good with stress.

360
00:21:40,290 --> 00:21:41,434
that evolve?

361
00:21:41,434 --> 00:21:44,141
do you think we go back to where we start?

362
00:21:44,141 --> 00:21:45,846
And what was our adolescence like?

363
00:21:45,846 --> 00:21:48,304
But is that developed early?

364
00:21:48,304 --> 00:21:52,256
develop a distress tolerance.

365
00:21:52,276 --> 00:21:56,207
And I think, I mean, don't get me started, know, I have big thoughts on this.

366
00:21:56,207 --> 00:22:03,341
Like the world right now, we are producing kids that do not have distress tolerance,
right?

367
00:22:03,341 --> 00:22:12,185
So I think you can develop that, but I do think where you start and what you're exposed to
really, really helps.

368
00:22:12,185 --> 00:22:17,968
So having a dysfunctional family plus being an athlete, not just like a regular high
school athlete,

369
00:22:17,968 --> 00:22:22,332
but like very, very like six hours a day, here's your training regimen.

370
00:22:22,332 --> 00:22:26,225
That made me be able to take on losses.

371
00:22:26,225 --> 00:22:28,497
I had losses every single day.

372
00:22:29,602 --> 00:22:33,604
There was a funny piece of content you guys put out recently.

373
00:22:33,604 --> 00:22:38,106
I love it when Mike says something and you're like, are you talking about?

374
00:22:38,106 --> 00:22:41,135
And then if it really strikes him big, he goes all in for it.

375
00:22:41,135 --> 00:22:44,974
And he went all in on this thing like, I'm not hiring Ivy League grads.

376
00:22:44,974 --> 00:22:46,784
Yeah, well that's just crazy.

377
00:22:46,954 --> 00:22:56,660
We're going through a phase where like we had hired and some of our companies had hired
people from Harvard specifically.

378
00:22:56,660 --> 00:23:01,913
And what happened was there was this dynamic of like, what are you going to do for me?

379
00:23:01,913 --> 00:23:03,264
I went to Harvard.

380
00:23:03,965 --> 00:23:12,550
And I think what we realized is we want people who have showed up and team players know
how to prep, know how to get on the field and deliver.

381
00:23:12,550 --> 00:23:13,390
And so

382
00:23:13,408 --> 00:23:18,982
If you went to Harvard and played on the football team, lacrosse, field hockey, whatever,
let's talk, right?

383
00:23:18,982 --> 00:23:20,993
Because that has, you you have some grip.

384
00:23:20,993 --> 00:23:34,032
But if you just like were a classics major at Harvard and you're coming into the world
expecting like big pay, a job, and you're not willing to kind of work in the mail room,

385
00:23:34,032 --> 00:23:37,484
like we just don't, it's just gonna be hard for you.

386
00:23:37,516 --> 00:23:38,367
Yeah, right.

387
00:23:38,367 --> 00:23:41,708
And I think I'm sitting here thinking like, I'd be that's your thing.

388
00:23:41,708 --> 00:23:42,649
So I'm going to him own it.

389
00:23:42,649 --> 00:23:43,009
Right.

390
00:23:43,009 --> 00:23:44,480
But I would I'd be right there with you.

391
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:51,724
I'm like, yeah, man, you're on to because of the quote to you just randomly said from this
school, that school, they're all state schools that you quoted.

392
00:23:51,724 --> 00:23:52,234
Right.

393
00:23:52,234 --> 00:23:55,656
And so but what I would say is not even pushing back.

394
00:23:55,656 --> 00:23:58,157
We're finding that more there, too.

395
00:23:59,378 --> 00:24:00,366
And so.

396
00:24:00,366 --> 00:24:06,406
I thought, all right, how do we carve through this as leaders and entrepreneurs and people
who are investing in businesses?

397
00:24:06,406 --> 00:24:13,726
I thought about your old past, and it seems to me that you had a ton of experiences
starting at an early age.

398
00:24:13,726 --> 00:24:16,246
You did a lot of things.

399
00:24:16,246 --> 00:24:19,746
Some people say, oh, if you're an athlete, if you're this...

400
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,151
I just reflect on my own.

401
00:24:21,151 --> 00:24:29,380
I try to find these patterns of what makes these people that come from such unique
different places, different backgrounds, but why are they having the same outcomes?

402
00:24:29,380 --> 00:24:32,042
And for me, I did a lot of things too.

403
00:24:32,042 --> 00:24:36,326
And I'm like, he played in the band.

404
00:24:36,867 --> 00:24:39,529
And so I'm like that combined with all these other things too.

405
00:24:39,529 --> 00:24:40,078
uh

406
00:24:40,078 --> 00:24:43,120
He also had a life and death experience.

407
00:24:43,181 --> 00:24:43,901
Right.

408
00:24:43,901 --> 00:24:46,383
So that counts.

409
00:24:46,543 --> 00:24:51,967
And he also was the only one in his family, if I'm right, that worked at age 12 on.

410
00:24:51,967 --> 00:24:53,728
And that's grit.

411
00:24:54,510 --> 00:24:55,350
That's it.

412
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:59,490
And then we learn this resilience because what I think is my thesis.

413
00:24:59,490 --> 00:25:00,030
Tolerance.

414
00:25:00,030 --> 00:25:00,370
Yeah.

415
00:25:00,370 --> 00:25:08,270
My thesis about doing a lot of things is you either learn resilience or you figure out you
just want to be an employee.

416
00:25:08,270 --> 00:25:17,090
And if you start developing this resilience at 15, 16, 18, you're going to start
compounding quick and you're going to wake up coming out of whatever school you come out

417
00:25:17,090 --> 00:25:20,758
of, whether you do or don't, and you're going to be well prepared for what's out here.

418
00:25:20,758 --> 00:25:29,828
You're going be able to say, this is people ask me all the time, do you think
entrepreneurship is it can can you can you turn into an entrepreneur?

419
00:25:29,828 --> 00:25:31,659
And I think it starts at an early age.

420
00:25:31,659 --> 00:25:33,461
Did you get enough resilience?

421
00:25:33,461 --> 00:25:41,388
Did you you do enough to come up with that tolerance that I'm going to go after something
and if I don't get it, I'm going to try harder or I'm going to pivot or I'm going to go

422
00:25:41,388 --> 00:25:43,404
over here and I'm going to bet on myself.

423
00:25:43,404 --> 00:25:44,055
Yeah.

424
00:25:44,055 --> 00:25:50,381
You guys talked about, you found that it's not necessarily the business you're in.

425
00:25:50,381 --> 00:25:53,383
It's the founder that you go into business with.

426
00:25:53,383 --> 00:25:59,509
And I would make an argument if you were a solo opener, it's probably the first few
employees that you decide to bring onto the company too.

427
00:25:59,509 --> 00:26:03,572
It's more important, the work that they're doing together versus the actual work.

428
00:26:03,773 --> 00:26:04,914
Can you speak to that?

429
00:26:04,914 --> 00:26:06,915
Cause that doesn't, a lot of people would hear that.

430
00:26:06,915 --> 00:26:07,775
What are you talking about?

431
00:26:07,775 --> 00:26:09,338
It doesn't matter the business.

432
00:26:10,454 --> 00:26:13,180
I mean, you're really the people person.

433
00:26:13,292 --> 00:26:14,066
So.

434
00:26:14,842 --> 00:26:22,446
Again, you said it very well that whether you're a solo founder or you have co-founders,
it's like a marriage.

435
00:26:22,446 --> 00:26:23,966
It's like a family, right?

436
00:26:23,966 --> 00:26:27,348
And, I get so much shit online about saying like works like family.

437
00:26:27,348 --> 00:26:37,813
I'm not saying that, but I'm saying that that relationship is as valuable and as like
precious as a family relationship, a marriage.

438
00:26:37,813 --> 00:26:41,375
Especially if there's two of you, you better know what you're getting into.

439
00:26:41,375 --> 00:26:44,516
And so we were lucky enough, obviously, to figure out.

440
00:26:44,516 --> 00:26:48,199
out how to divide and conquer since living together.

441
00:26:48,199 --> 00:26:52,361
when you decide, I see so many founders being like, yeah, he's my best friend.

442
00:26:52,361 --> 00:26:56,754
Or yeah, I called one of my old high school friends and we're thinking about doing this.

443
00:26:56,754 --> 00:27:01,327
I'm like, okay, did you sit down and have really uncomfortable conversations?

444
00:27:01,327 --> 00:27:02,488
Why would you do this?

445
00:27:02,488 --> 00:27:04,990
How hard are you going to work?

446
00:27:04,990 --> 00:27:09,512
When you're at your worst day, what do you have to do to reset?

447
00:27:09,613 --> 00:27:14,476
I need to know what it means so that I'm not resenting you for taking off and

448
00:27:14,476 --> 00:27:16,219
going to the gym or something.

449
00:27:16,219 --> 00:27:18,241
And what are your morals?

450
00:27:18,241 --> 00:27:19,863
What are your values?

451
00:27:20,264 --> 00:27:25,191
What's going to happen if you have kids or somebody gets sick?

452
00:27:25,191 --> 00:27:27,233
What's your focus going to be like?

453
00:27:27,310 --> 00:27:33,742
And we're talking the reason why I think you probably invoked family and those people that
are giving you shit about it, they haven't really been in the throes of it.

454
00:27:33,742 --> 00:27:34,432
They haven't.

455
00:27:34,432 --> 00:27:35,933
Because if they haven't, they've succeeded.

456
00:27:35,933 --> 00:27:37,293
They know it's a truth, right?

457
00:27:37,293 --> 00:27:40,114
But if you think about family, you think about like blood.

458
00:27:40,114 --> 00:27:42,635
There's an ingrained commitment.

459
00:27:42,635 --> 00:27:48,697
Even for the crazy person in our family, if it's us or if it's them, we're just like, you
just show up.

460
00:27:48,697 --> 00:27:52,818
And if you're gonna have a really successful business, you have to do that for each other.

461
00:27:53,358 --> 00:28:03,578
And so like you said, even if you're a solo founder, those next three hires and how you
depend on them, that management team, leadership team, how do those people fill in the

462
00:28:03,578 --> 00:28:05,118
gaps that you have?

463
00:28:05,118 --> 00:28:11,398
Because they better fill in the gaps and you better not be afraid to hire people who are
smarter than you.

464
00:28:12,270 --> 00:28:14,954
You think that's threatening for a lot of people to think about?

465
00:28:14,954 --> 00:28:19,568
Because Mike will say this all the time, that entrepreneurs have ego.

466
00:28:19,568 --> 00:28:23,190
We do have ego because we are, it's crazy what we do.

467
00:28:23,190 --> 00:28:25,662
Like Mike will say, what's that thing you say?

468
00:28:25,662 --> 00:28:31,446
we're center stage to watch, like everyone can watch us fail or get punched in the face
every day.

469
00:28:31,446 --> 00:28:34,668
So you have to have a little bit of ego to say like, no, I can do this.

470
00:28:34,668 --> 00:28:36,482
I can do this and you all can't.

471
00:28:36,482 --> 00:28:39,793
and we had to do this in the midst of everyone telling us we couldn't.

472
00:28:39,793 --> 00:28:43,643
I think it gets formed by default and then it doesn't serve us well.

473
00:28:43,982 --> 00:28:47,022
Because you start a company, you tell everyone.

474
00:28:47,022 --> 00:28:48,762
It becomes your identity.

475
00:28:48,862 --> 00:28:52,402
If you're lucky, you get known in your industry.

476
00:28:52,402 --> 00:28:57,222
Or like us, we were the largest startup in New York City for a very hot time.

477
00:28:57,222 --> 00:28:59,022
There weren't a lot of companies.

478
00:28:59,422 --> 00:29:03,602
And so I remember we raised like $100 million because we had to like, we're going for it,
right?

479
00:29:03,602 --> 00:29:08,782
Vassus Company, the $50 million in annual recurring revenue.

480
00:29:09,702 --> 00:29:10,542
Media.

481
00:29:11,182 --> 00:29:12,962
And I kept thinking, man.

482
00:29:12,962 --> 00:29:15,342
we're gonna be the biggest flame out ever.

483
00:29:15,342 --> 00:29:18,254
Like even when we sold, we're like, we're done.

484
00:29:18,254 --> 00:29:22,463
This imposter syndrome, what we hear about, but we didn't have a term for it then.

485
00:29:22,665 --> 00:29:24,329
because it's like you've done it.

486
00:29:24,329 --> 00:29:26,323
You're waking up to the thing that you've done.

487
00:29:26,323 --> 00:29:27,768
Why would you think that?

488
00:29:27,768 --> 00:29:28,589
I think it's fear.

489
00:29:28,589 --> 00:29:36,525
think it's like, we are motivated more by like the fear of failure than this pot of gold.

490
00:29:36,525 --> 00:29:41,508
Like it was never about necessarily the money, even though we're capitalists.

491
00:29:41,729 --> 00:29:44,190
It was about like freedom for me.

492
00:29:44,211 --> 00:29:48,774
Like I don't want to sit behind a desk and freedom to live the life I want.

493
00:29:48,774 --> 00:29:50,195
My dad went bankrupt.

494
00:29:50,195 --> 00:29:54,090
He had a lot of money issues, like not having money.

495
00:29:54,090 --> 00:29:59,496
not having your health, not having a good relationship, those things really suck, right?

496
00:29:59,496 --> 00:30:01,428
And I saw them all early on.

497
00:30:01,580 --> 00:30:02,972
I losing.

498
00:30:03,536 --> 00:30:04,173
I hate it.

499
00:30:04,173 --> 00:30:05,641
I hate it more.

500
00:30:05,641 --> 00:30:07,776
I know this doesn't make sense more than I like winning.

501
00:30:07,776 --> 00:30:09,710
I hate losing.

502
00:30:10,104 --> 00:30:11,497
What do you do when you lose?

503
00:30:12,556 --> 00:30:13,548
Well, I mean...

504
00:30:13,548 --> 00:30:16,039
uh

505
00:30:16,039 --> 00:30:18,198
to even acknowledge it, to think about it.

506
00:30:18,198 --> 00:30:21,999
I think I go through every step.

507
00:30:23,140 --> 00:30:27,201
I look at, did we make a good business model decision?

508
00:30:27,201 --> 00:30:29,921
And if it didn't work, I love that.

509
00:30:29,921 --> 00:30:34,643
I hate that we wasted the time, but now that's when the work happens.

510
00:30:34,643 --> 00:30:36,923
And good entrepreneurs are like, yeah.

511
00:30:36,923 --> 00:30:37,623
OK, great.

512
00:30:37,623 --> 00:30:39,624
So we can check that off the list.

513
00:30:39,624 --> 00:30:42,525
And we're closer to getting the data that we need.

514
00:30:42,525 --> 00:30:43,925
So we're going to figure this out.

515
00:30:43,925 --> 00:30:45,245
And now let's dissect it.

516
00:30:45,245 --> 00:30:47,598
And I love dissecting things.

517
00:30:47,699 --> 00:30:50,883
What's funny is when um I get to get you some water.

518
00:30:50,883 --> 00:30:52,438
appreciate it.

519
00:30:53,550 --> 00:30:54,790
Ah.

520
00:30:55,054 --> 00:30:58,534
I just talked to someone two or three days ago.

521
00:30:58,854 --> 00:31:00,534
you we have these key employees.

522
00:31:00,534 --> 00:31:03,474
We can say every employee is key, but there's just some that do more.

523
00:31:03,614 --> 00:31:05,414
And I sat down with her and she's amazing.

524
00:31:05,414 --> 00:31:08,474
She's 26 years old and she's this Alabama grad.

525
00:31:08,474 --> 00:31:12,734
But she grew up on her parents used car lot in Northern California.

526
00:31:12,734 --> 00:31:16,114
When I heard that, when I heard it, I was like, let's go.

527
00:31:16,634 --> 00:31:22,954
But I just said, hey, I can acknowledge that to everyone else, I'm completely
unreasonable.

528
00:31:23,630 --> 00:31:24,591
I acknowledge it.

529
00:31:24,591 --> 00:31:26,934
said, but I'm not going to internalize that.

530
00:31:26,934 --> 00:31:31,619
And I'm not going to allow it to have me change because all of this was created with a
vision.

531
00:31:31,619 --> 00:31:40,148
And so I know that being unreasonable at times will look like this guy's crazy, but here's
my level of unreason.

532
00:31:40,148 --> 00:31:41,850
The moment we fail.

533
00:31:42,124 --> 00:31:43,936
get up and go again right now.

534
00:31:44,017 --> 00:31:45,417
Like right now.

535
00:31:45,478 --> 00:31:50,445
And I don't need to wait for a week and break the whole dang thing down.

536
00:31:50,445 --> 00:31:55,912
It's like let me take the lesson, the one thing that I could really identify that I failed
at and let's start again.

537
00:31:55,912 --> 00:32:00,837
And I might fail 10 times micro like that, but most likely I'm gonna get to the finish.

538
00:32:01,038 --> 00:32:02,318
That's what an entrepreneur is.

539
00:32:02,318 --> 00:32:05,358
They can handle those many failures.

540
00:32:05,998 --> 00:32:07,598
day.

541
00:32:07,638 --> 00:32:07,978
Right.

542
00:32:07,978 --> 00:32:10,938
Feeling, and also going, but I'm still going to make it.

543
00:32:10,938 --> 00:32:11,198
Absolutely.

544
00:32:11,198 --> 00:32:12,538
This is still our goal.

545
00:32:12,558 --> 00:32:18,718
And turning around to investors and employees and the board and saying, oh, no, no, this
is great.

546
00:32:19,518 --> 00:32:20,458
This is our vision.

547
00:32:20,458 --> 00:32:21,498
This is our story.

548
00:32:21,498 --> 00:32:23,516
This is how we're going to get started.

549
00:32:23,516 --> 00:32:28,472
both arrived at this place where failure is actually growth?

550
00:32:29,954 --> 00:32:33,097
When did that consciously occur?

551
00:32:34,370 --> 00:32:35,831
Well, part of it is growth.

552
00:32:35,831 --> 00:32:37,611
Part of it is life.

553
00:32:38,132 --> 00:32:42,374
Like, look at anything that matters and there's failure involved.

554
00:32:42,374 --> 00:32:42,754
Right.

555
00:32:42,754 --> 00:32:44,094
50 % of marriages fail.

556
00:32:44,094 --> 00:32:47,155
Like 90 % of businesses fail eventually.

557
00:32:47,376 --> 00:32:48,986
Your health is going to fail.

558
00:32:48,986 --> 00:32:49,307
Right.

559
00:32:49,307 --> 00:32:53,479
So failure to us, it's not that we celebrate it.

560
00:32:53,479 --> 00:32:58,341
It's what can we learn and how do we do it better?

561
00:32:58,341 --> 00:33:02,166
Like, how do we just get, like you said, back on and

562
00:33:02,350 --> 00:33:04,850
not letting it cripple us.

563
00:33:04,850 --> 00:33:12,710
People who are crippled by failure are not crippled by failure, they're crippled by their
identity, their ego, their reaction to failure.

564
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:15,270
You can own the failure, right?

565
00:33:15,610 --> 00:33:19,090
Like, think about the greatest failures in our lifetime.

566
00:33:19,090 --> 00:33:21,750
Like when we were doing golf.com, Tiger Woods, right?

567
00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:27,270
He gets beat up by his wife with a club because he's cheating on her outside the house,
crashes the car.

568
00:33:27,270 --> 00:33:30,022
If he just got in front of it and said like,

569
00:33:30,326 --> 00:33:31,546
I'm not happy in my marriage.

570
00:33:31,546 --> 00:33:34,309
Let's just like go our separate ways.

571
00:33:34,429 --> 00:33:38,171
He's Tiger Woods, rich, good looking, good at golf.

572
00:33:38,552 --> 00:33:40,073
He could date anyone, right?

573
00:33:40,073 --> 00:33:42,210
And people wouldn't have judged him.

574
00:33:42,210 --> 00:33:42,970
Wouldn't have judged him.

575
00:33:42,970 --> 00:33:44,977
He'd be the Will Chamberlain, right?

576
00:33:45,077 --> 00:33:54,164
It's the fact that he couldn't, like, there's a gap between what he thought he was, what
everyone else thought he was, and really who he was as a person.

577
00:33:54,164 --> 00:33:55,505
And so own that failure.

578
00:33:55,505 --> 00:33:57,556
If the company's not going well, pivot.

579
00:33:57,696 --> 00:34:03,534
If it's really not going well, you don't see a path forward, return the capital to
investors and move on.

580
00:34:03,534 --> 00:34:04,735
That's a hard one.

581
00:34:05,016 --> 00:34:10,683
how many times have you heard, every once in a while hear that, I'm gonna wind down a
phone, I'm gonna stop.

582
00:34:10,683 --> 00:34:12,398
It's rare, isn't it?

583
00:34:12,398 --> 00:34:15,618
Well, I mean, no, we're doing it right now with a company.

584
00:34:15,618 --> 00:34:17,338
I'm not gonna name the company.

585
00:34:17,398 --> 00:34:19,258
The team did a great job.

586
00:34:19,258 --> 00:34:20,538
The market turned.

587
00:34:20,538 --> 00:34:22,298
They've been very capital efficient.

588
00:34:22,298 --> 00:34:24,338
There's still a lot of money left in the bank.

589
00:34:24,338 --> 00:34:33,758
And so they made the mature decision to say, like, we don't think a dollar invested is
gonna produce anything close to a venture return.

590
00:34:33,758 --> 00:34:39,018
So we're gonna return capital to the preferred investors, which are like the VCs.

591
00:34:39,418 --> 00:34:41,611
That is hard to do.

592
00:34:41,611 --> 00:34:51,454
But deep down, if you don't see a path forward after many pivots, which this company did,
you have to make decisions because is it better to do it for five years and then fail?

593
00:34:51,454 --> 00:34:56,425
Because most entrepreneurs don't have a lot of money, but they have a lot of time.

594
00:34:57,165 --> 00:34:58,925
Don't waste that time.

595
00:34:58,925 --> 00:35:01,736
Invest your time like it's money.

596
00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:06,336
So how do we know if we're a Henry Ford or not?

597
00:35:06,336 --> 00:35:09,210
You know, the guy's pretty much bankrupt at 40.

598
00:35:09,602 --> 00:35:12,684
You mentioned it earlier, the go gauge, right?

599
00:35:12,684 --> 00:35:19,188
What do you do so that you know this is actually working or are you going to keep telling
yourself stories?

600
00:35:19,188 --> 00:35:31,415
You have to have a framework to actually move forward in the business, communicate it to
the other employees, but most of all, you have to have your success measurements, right?

601
00:35:31,415 --> 00:35:34,997
So you write that down before you've told yourself stories.

602
00:35:34,997 --> 00:35:36,770
This is what success looks like.

603
00:35:36,770 --> 00:35:39,150
you want to go through the six pieces of the cocage?

604
00:35:39,150 --> 00:35:40,076
No, want see if you remember.

605
00:35:40,076 --> 00:35:42,840
No, no, no, I do remember them, but you're...

606
00:35:43,095 --> 00:35:52,182
we have something we in the book for entrepreneurs called the go gauge, which is how do
you green light ideas either a startup idea or you're running a business and you have a

607
00:35:52,182 --> 00:35:55,805
new idea that you want to either as a subsidiary or a new product.

608
00:35:56,085 --> 00:36:00,579
It also became our lens as investors is kind of the same, right?

609
00:36:00,579 --> 00:36:02,110
Like is this worth our time?

610
00:36:02,110 --> 00:36:04,132
Is this worth our money to invest?

611
00:36:04,132 --> 00:36:06,174
And it all starts for us with product.

612
00:36:06,174 --> 00:36:12,000
So what it's the product and you should be able to say that in like less than one
sentence, right?

613
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,112
So it's like free to play mobile games, like whatever it is.

614
00:36:16,372 --> 00:36:18,973
Why is it different than what's out there?

615
00:36:18,973 --> 00:36:20,934
How are you going to market it?

616
00:36:20,934 --> 00:36:23,135
Meaning how are people going to find out about it?

617
00:36:23,135 --> 00:36:24,906
How many people are there to buy it?

618
00:36:24,906 --> 00:36:26,406
So what's the market size?

619
00:36:26,406 --> 00:36:30,698
But we look at it as like how many buyers and what are they paying for it?

620
00:36:30,698 --> 00:36:31,438
Right.

621
00:36:31,438 --> 00:36:36,185
The fifth one came from liquid death, which is all the operations.

622
00:36:36,185 --> 00:36:39,101
Like how are you going to get your product to your customer?

623
00:36:39,262 --> 00:36:40,044
We were

624
00:36:40,044 --> 00:36:46,607
putting it in cans in Austria, putting it in a uh truck to put it on a train, to put it on
a boat.

625
00:36:46,607 --> 00:36:49,943
We were losing money at one point on every can being sold.

626
00:36:49,943 --> 00:36:51,966
So we're like, we need to be a little smarter.

627
00:36:51,966 --> 00:36:53,077
I'm like.

628
00:36:53,218 --> 00:36:54,800
the unit economics and that.

629
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,545
And then the six is just on the back of an envelope is the financial model makes sense.

630
00:36:59,545 --> 00:37:02,473
And the financial model to us is like not business school.

631
00:37:02,473 --> 00:37:04,650
It's basically like, what are you selling it for?

632
00:37:04,650 --> 00:37:07,113
What does it cost you to produce it?

633
00:37:07,113 --> 00:37:07,914
Right?

634
00:37:07,914 --> 00:37:12,157
What is it going to cost to do the business like the operating expenses?

635
00:37:12,438 --> 00:37:15,200
And what's left over is profit.

636
00:37:15,301 --> 00:37:21,098
And if you can't get the unit economics to work, you're not going to be able to get your P
&L, your income statement to work.

637
00:37:21,098 --> 00:37:23,330
And if that doesn't work, there is no cash flow.

638
00:37:23,330 --> 00:37:26,874
There is no healthy balance sheet, and nothing works.

639
00:37:26,874 --> 00:37:30,377
And we've learned that all the hard way because we didn't go to business school.

640
00:37:30,510 --> 00:37:32,990
And we've had to learn, neither of us did.

641
00:37:32,990 --> 00:37:45,290
And we have to learn like, how do we work so that we don't tell ourselves stories so that
our ego doesn't convince our gut when something is not working that, oh, no, no, keep

642
00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:46,090
going.

643
00:37:46,270 --> 00:37:53,730
That's, that's the hard part is I think as an entrepreneur, can you get your ego in check
in the most important moments?

644
00:37:53,730 --> 00:37:59,830
And like you talked about our honeymoon, we didn't have an ego to be going to this big
honeymoon.

645
00:37:59,830 --> 00:38:00,895
We didn't have the money.

646
00:38:00,895 --> 00:38:01,780
Yeah.

647
00:38:02,355 --> 00:38:07,058
So you're a guy that believes everything happens for a reason.

648
00:38:08,921 --> 00:38:11,523
I read that and I went, okay.

649
00:38:11,523 --> 00:38:15,837
it sounds like when you, because you guys read the book yourself on Audible, right?

650
00:38:15,837 --> 00:38:19,610
So um you said it.

651
00:38:19,610 --> 00:38:22,958
And I was like, this could be, this is an interesting deep dive here.

652
00:38:22,958 --> 00:38:23,878
Yeah.

653
00:38:24,038 --> 00:38:33,698
I mean, I think you have to believe that things aren't just random, that you're that
you're part of some like randomized experiment.

654
00:38:34,378 --> 00:38:40,878
Um, yeah, things happen and there's meaning you can get from it.

655
00:38:40,878 --> 00:38:47,258
Now, does everything have a reason like part of a grand plan?

656
00:38:47,258 --> 00:38:53,158
No, but from everything there are lessons and there is meaning.

657
00:38:53,410 --> 00:38:56,751
And you could say, I almost died twice.

658
00:38:56,751 --> 00:38:57,611
I flatlined.

659
00:38:57,611 --> 00:38:58,682
I have an artificial heart valve.

660
00:38:58,682 --> 00:39:04,115
Well, that created a mentality of like, what's the worst thing that can happen?

661
00:39:04,115 --> 00:39:04,995
Like I'm alive.

662
00:39:04,995 --> 00:39:07,146
So this company goes under whatever.

663
00:39:07,146 --> 00:39:10,997
If we're homeless, whatever, I'm at least alive.

664
00:39:10,997 --> 00:39:22,312
And I think that as entrepreneurs, this idea that you found your purpose or your business
is your purpose is powerful because it's

665
00:39:22,370 --> 00:39:23,891
propels you to get out of bed.

666
00:39:23,891 --> 00:39:28,343
There are days, most days where you're like, my God, things aren't going well.

667
00:39:28,343 --> 00:39:31,324
Like I have five clients who are canceling.

668
00:39:31,324 --> 00:39:33,435
got employees who aren't happy.

669
00:39:33,435 --> 00:39:38,677
My product team says it's gonna take three more months to launch something that's like
critical.

670
00:39:39,237 --> 00:39:40,388
Why do you get out of bed?

671
00:39:40,388 --> 00:39:43,849
Because your purpose is to push this thing forward, right?

672
00:39:43,849 --> 00:39:50,112
And so, know, we shoveling shit a love story, we

673
00:39:50,112 --> 00:39:57,568
included the love story because if it's just shoveling shit, like we didn't want to write
a book that's like entrepreneurship sucks.

674
00:39:58,029 --> 00:40:09,497
We want to write an honest book with a 50 kind of like cheat codes that we learned along
the way that is entrepreneurship sucks and there's no better way to spend your day.

675
00:40:10,178 --> 00:40:15,012
And those are two things that it's hard to hold if you're not an entrepreneur.

676
00:40:15,012 --> 00:40:19,906
But if you're an entrepreneur, it's basically like I hate every day right now.

677
00:40:20,354 --> 00:40:22,131
And there's nothing else I'd rather do.

678
00:40:22,164 --> 00:40:24,681
I'm so glad I'm not working at a desk.

679
00:40:26,049 --> 00:40:39,150
How do we, something I've struggled with is, that's a similar belief I have about, I just
feel, since we're in New York City, and one of the speeches about, I like the luckiest Lou

680
00:40:39,150 --> 00:40:46,990
Gehrig back in the day, today, I feel like the luckiest man in the world, you have to feel
that being an entrepreneur to get through this, right?

681
00:40:46,990 --> 00:40:50,890
And I feel, and so I think that I do feel like it because,

682
00:40:51,182 --> 00:40:55,265
I get to make the calls, make the decisions, I get to go all in, I get to affect this
change.

683
00:40:55,265 --> 00:41:02,630
But how do you have this leadership conversation and honesty around it with people who are
employees in your businesses?

684
00:41:04,391 --> 00:41:08,046
No, it's if we think that this is the greatest thing that's ever happened.

685
00:41:08,046 --> 00:41:09,446
Well, that's culture.

686
00:41:09,446 --> 00:41:10,986
So that's different.

687
00:41:10,986 --> 00:41:18,046
So I think there's a difference between the entrepreneurs and then everybody else, right?

688
00:41:18,046 --> 00:41:20,206
And that's where culture comes in.

689
00:41:20,206 --> 00:41:32,026
And if you don't create this, what I call in the book, a positive cult, they are not going
to drink your Kool-Aid, that this is the greatest thing, even if we get punched in the

690
00:41:32,026 --> 00:41:35,446
face 80 million times for the next five years.

691
00:41:36,130 --> 00:41:37,614
So cult's a positive thing.

692
00:41:37,614 --> 00:41:39,355
Cult is a positive thing.

693
00:41:39,475 --> 00:41:41,836
you are, I mean, I think it is.

694
00:41:41,836 --> 00:41:44,748
And the first four letters of culture is cult.

695
00:41:44,748 --> 00:41:46,819
This is what we're getting at.

696
00:41:46,819 --> 00:41:54,583
So you have to figure out a way that, and listen, I believe it all starts with everybody
gets a slice of the pie.

697
00:41:54,583 --> 00:41:56,074
So that doesn't happen.

698
00:41:56,074 --> 00:41:57,325
I know it's surprising.

699
00:41:57,325 --> 00:42:00,277
People say, oh, no, I thought that's like table stakes.

700
00:42:00,277 --> 00:42:06,129
No, I have six companies right now that they're not, they're picking and choosing who gets
equity.

701
00:42:06,622 --> 00:42:13,247
If you want to make the best decision in the world, align everybody that they all get a
piece.

702
00:42:13,247 --> 00:42:16,069
So like Mike said, everybody wins, right?

703
00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:29,660
So every single employee, it didn't matter if they were 22 or had been there all five
years, including some vendors, including some cleaning staff, they had equity in our

704
00:42:29,660 --> 00:42:30,660
business.

705
00:42:30,761 --> 00:42:32,101
That was what was.

706
00:42:32,867 --> 00:42:34,919
there's no right answer for everyone, right?

707
00:42:34,919 --> 00:42:39,312
We believed in kind of this like equity model.

708
00:42:40,194 --> 00:42:44,638
The best New York City entrepreneur right now, Gary Vaynerchuk, doesn't.

709
00:42:44,638 --> 00:42:47,540
He pays well and not everyone has equity, right?

710
00:42:47,540 --> 00:42:49,722
That's his model.

711
00:42:49,728 --> 00:42:51,166
is an agency.

712
00:42:51,916 --> 00:42:53,732
There's not just an agency to be friends.

713
00:42:53,732 --> 00:42:54,853
It's a whole...

714
00:42:55,016 --> 00:42:57,042
You cut that out, he's gonna get mad at you.

715
00:42:57,042 --> 00:42:57,764
It's much more.

716
00:42:57,764 --> 00:42:59,808
He's a global conglomerate.

717
00:43:00,274 --> 00:43:10,242
I'm that the majority of his people, and so it's an agency model where I believe it's a
little different.

718
00:43:10,242 --> 00:43:11,843
The margins are different.

719
00:43:11,843 --> 00:43:15,445
So when you have a big company and you're shooting the moon,

720
00:43:15,650 --> 00:43:17,396
There's a lot to go around in there.

721
00:43:17,396 --> 00:43:19,243
I mean, honestly, there's a lot.

722
00:43:19,243 --> 00:43:20,456
venture-backed

723
00:43:20,792 --> 00:43:21,785
There's a lot to go.

724
00:43:21,785 --> 00:43:23,018
That's why I mean like

725
00:43:23,018 --> 00:43:29,398
might cash out at $2 billion and you can hand out $150,000 here, $175,000.

726
00:43:29,398 --> 00:43:30,918
There's a lot to go around.

727
00:43:30,918 --> 00:43:33,778
your argument on agency model, that's the world I come from.

728
00:43:33,778 --> 00:43:34,518
There's not as much.

729
00:43:34,518 --> 00:43:35,638
The margin is smaller.

730
00:43:35,638 --> 00:43:37,218
But you'd make an argument, so what?

731
00:43:37,218 --> 00:43:37,806
Figure it out.

732
00:43:37,806 --> 00:43:40,629
Well, no, I so they're different.

733
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:42,653
There's not one way for every company.

734
00:43:42,653 --> 00:43:44,756
So we now own companies as well.

735
00:43:44,756 --> 00:43:46,638
We have a service business.

736
00:43:47,381 --> 00:43:50,235
OK, so we own a company that's not doing it.

737
00:43:50,235 --> 00:43:50,976
Kass's way.

738
00:43:50,976 --> 00:43:51,336
Yeah.

739
00:43:51,336 --> 00:43:52,227
Right.

740
00:43:52,228 --> 00:43:53,849
No one else has equity.

741
00:43:53,966 --> 00:43:55,193
Well, that's a service business.

742
00:43:55,193 --> 00:43:56,339
That's an agency model.

743
00:43:56,339 --> 00:43:56,898
It's like.

744
00:43:56,898 --> 00:44:09,706
But what we did was we created what I called branded the shared success matching program
where we basically say we are going to reinvest profits into you through these like

745
00:44:09,706 --> 00:44:16,090
accounts where we match money that you put into the account that then bests over time.

746
00:44:16,090 --> 00:44:21,693
And so it's not equity, but it's sharing the profits in a structured way.

747
00:44:21,974 --> 00:44:22,874
Now.

748
00:44:22,894 --> 00:44:27,194
for people who are making a hundred grand a year, which is a lot.

749
00:44:29,134 --> 00:44:30,230
That's all I was gonna say.

750
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:31,370
100 grand a year.

751
00:44:31,370 --> 00:44:36,610
If you have a traditional environment where two people get together, no matter if you're
married, you get together.

752
00:44:36,610 --> 00:44:43,818
If you combine $100,000 a piece and you're making 200 grand, guys, you're still living the
American, the idea of the American dream.

753
00:44:43,818 --> 00:44:59,038
if you add like $25,000 of profit that's added to that, that is more tax efficient that
you get over time, it's basically, you know, that match is the same as investing your

754
00:44:59,038 --> 00:45:03,487
money getting 33 % of a year, And so

755
00:45:03,487 --> 00:45:05,955
that it stays there for five years, 10 years.

756
00:45:05,955 --> 00:45:07,238
m

757
00:45:07,727 --> 00:45:09,120
Now you want to stay with us.

758
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:09,491
Yeah.

759
00:45:09,491 --> 00:45:11,438
Because we actually see you.

760
00:45:11,438 --> 00:45:12,578
It's a trade.

761
00:45:12,578 --> 00:45:13,898
It's a trade in the trade.

762
00:45:13,898 --> 00:45:22,238
And I said to the one I created the program and cast, you know, massage that and we
presented it to the team.

763
00:45:22,698 --> 00:45:26,998
You know, I basically said, listen, this is what it is, is why we're doing it.

764
00:45:26,998 --> 00:45:28,658
We want everyone to feel peace.

765
00:45:28,658 --> 00:45:30,898
But at the end of the day, it's a trade.

766
00:45:30,938 --> 00:45:38,675
If you give us your loyalty and it's a very competitive industry that's in the service
business.

767
00:45:38,675 --> 00:45:42,223
We will take care of you and we'll reinvest in you out of the profits.

768
00:45:42,223 --> 00:45:42,954
And that's it.

769
00:45:42,954 --> 00:45:45,071
Give us loyalty and you get it.

770
00:45:45,071 --> 00:45:49,501
that again, we believe that everyone needs some kind of slice.

771
00:45:49,501 --> 00:45:51,419
And that's when magic happens.

772
00:45:51,419 --> 00:45:52,310
Where'd that come from?

773
00:45:52,310 --> 00:45:56,383
Did that come from you just want to run a great business and keep people or is there
something deeper?

774
00:45:56,383 --> 00:45:57,100
Because

775
00:45:57,100 --> 00:46:00,141
for kids was not equitable.

776
00:46:00,248 --> 00:46:01,038
for you.

777
00:46:01,038 --> 00:46:03,238
And everyone was treated differently.

778
00:46:03,238 --> 00:46:09,838
You never knew kind of how you were going to be treated and alliance games and things like
that.

779
00:46:09,838 --> 00:46:15,058
So no, I mean, that came from me really wanting teams to work.

780
00:46:15,058 --> 00:46:17,878
And could I make big teams work?

781
00:46:17,878 --> 00:46:21,438
Could I make no mean girl rules, no cliques?

782
00:46:22,478 --> 00:46:27,678
I fired two people on the spot because they were being mean girls.

783
00:46:28,138 --> 00:46:29,696
And they weren't girls.

784
00:46:29,696 --> 00:46:30,840
Yeah, on the spot.

785
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:32,022
oh

786
00:46:32,022 --> 00:46:33,475
gave them one warning.

787
00:46:33,475 --> 00:46:36,460
said if I see how you treat others, you're

788
00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:44,786
So and once that's known throughout a brand and a culture, it's like, hey, listen, I
probably don't need to talk about this too much more.

789
00:46:44,929 --> 00:46:45,239
Right.

790
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:46,492
It manages itself.

791
00:46:46,515 --> 00:46:46,845
Yeah.

792
00:46:46,845 --> 00:46:47,135
Right.

793
00:46:47,135 --> 00:46:48,988
Because it's the rumor bill.

794
00:46:48,988 --> 00:46:51,791
And it's okay.

795
00:46:51,791 --> 00:46:53,963
That person really made my job harder.

796
00:46:53,963 --> 00:46:57,390
And now my boss recognize it and that person's gone.

797
00:46:57,390 --> 00:47:02,510
So something else from shoveling shit, there's so much there if people go and buy the
book.

798
00:47:03,250 --> 00:47:08,250
But I grab these things, I've never got your questions, because I hate when people ask
them to me.

799
00:47:08,250 --> 00:47:09,410
I'm always like, am I being recorded?

800
00:47:09,410 --> 00:47:10,550
What's going on?

801
00:47:11,050 --> 00:47:17,130
But you made this statement that you can only do one great thing at a time.

802
00:47:18,579 --> 00:47:21,140
Yes, I believe it.

803
00:47:21,140 --> 00:47:24,402
So I'll give you an analogy.

804
00:47:24,402 --> 00:47:32,305
You look at celebrities who are in a movie, like just say it's like a superhero movie and
they're ripped.

805
00:47:32,385 --> 00:47:36,767
Every single one of them said, I did that for 12 weeks.

806
00:47:36,767 --> 00:47:38,958
It was brutal.

807
00:47:38,958 --> 00:47:43,090
I had a trainer and a person right here giving me food.

808
00:47:43,090 --> 00:47:44,321
And then that was that.

809
00:47:44,321 --> 00:47:45,491
I couldn't do it anymore.

810
00:47:45,491 --> 00:47:46,672
You can only do one.

811
00:47:46,672 --> 00:47:48,272
great thing at a time.

812
00:47:48,272 --> 00:47:53,392
But here's the secret and this is what I would like to tell all the other mompreneurs out
there.

813
00:47:53,592 --> 00:48:02,172
Our 80 % it's not like if I give everything to my my company that means everything else is
zero.

814
00:48:02,172 --> 00:48:06,792
It means that they're just going to be at 80 % and that's okay.

815
00:48:06,872 --> 00:48:11,592
But if you want to do the great thing you got to go 100 and more.

816
00:48:12,078 --> 00:48:13,558
Yeah, this idea.

817
00:48:13,558 --> 00:48:18,158
What happens to your brains when you hear people say, you've got to give 110 %?

818
00:48:18,702 --> 00:48:25,042
I think you do have to give, you know, 200 % to your core focus area.

819
00:48:25,042 --> 00:48:26,562
So we're all about focus.

820
00:48:26,642 --> 00:48:28,202
You asked the question earlier, which is great.

821
00:48:28,202 --> 00:48:29,142
It's like you have a vision.

822
00:48:29,142 --> 00:48:31,702
How do you like get everyone else on board?

823
00:48:31,922 --> 00:48:33,802
And all this comes down to focus.

824
00:48:33,802 --> 00:48:39,682
And we in the book talk about the V2 mom or focus exercise of like, what's your vision,
your values?

825
00:48:39,682 --> 00:48:42,202
What do you need to do to hit that vision?

826
00:48:42,202 --> 00:48:45,502
What are the obstacles and how are you going to measure success?

827
00:48:45,502 --> 00:48:46,242
You have the measurements.

828
00:48:46,242 --> 00:48:47,962
That's the last M.

829
00:48:48,078 --> 00:48:56,478
And that's a living, breeding document, which you not only internalize, but you
communicate with your team, you do it with your team.

830
00:48:56,478 --> 00:49:00,018
So everyone knows like what you're doing.

831
00:49:00,018 --> 00:49:11,298
And so if you can kind of focus an organization, put in 120%, 200 % behind that, you're
going to do whatever your vision is.

832
00:49:11,298 --> 00:49:13,382
You will eventually reach it.

833
00:49:13,474 --> 00:49:15,596
The issue is are you focused on the right things?

834
00:49:15,596 --> 00:49:18,878
Are there things that you haven't focused on that are gonna trip you up?

835
00:49:18,979 --> 00:49:19,389
Right?

836
00:49:19,389 --> 00:49:23,593
So like we are all about surging the focus, right?

837
00:49:23,593 --> 00:49:36,630
Putting the wood behind the right arrow, going all in and just willing it into existence,
knowing that you can only do one or two of those things a year as a big organization.

838
00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:37,350
communicating.

839
00:49:37,350 --> 00:49:46,184
One of the other things is part of that culture is if you don't know why you're part of
this team, I mean even at 300 employees, that's a problem.

840
00:49:46,184 --> 00:49:48,575
That's a leadership problem.

841
00:49:50,877 --> 00:49:53,526
you've come up with here's what we're going to focus on.

842
00:49:53,526 --> 00:49:55,678
how your work levels up to the company.

843
00:49:55,678 --> 00:50:01,941
so like he would say, okay, here's our new V2 mom for the next 12 months or the next six
months, whatever it was.

844
00:50:02,001 --> 00:50:08,314
My job was then to take every leader and say, okay, please go tell this, you know, to all
your people.

845
00:50:08,314 --> 00:50:09,795
That doesn't, that's not it.

846
00:50:09,795 --> 00:50:12,306
It's we did it in quarterly team meetings.

847
00:50:12,306 --> 00:50:17,849
Whenever I saw someone standing around at the lunchroom, I'd be like, Hey, do you remember
what our V2 mom is?

848
00:50:17,849 --> 00:50:25,052
And they would laugh because they knew that I was trying to make sure everybody knew why
they were important and what their impact was going to be.

849
00:50:25,813 --> 00:50:27,006
you have to over...

850
00:50:27,006 --> 00:50:38,755
For any company, like, you know, say I'm at a hundred thousand square feet of real estate,
vision, two million, you know, square feet under management by the end of the year,

851
00:50:38,755 --> 00:50:42,657
values, trustworthiness, hard work, like you figure out your values.

852
00:50:42,657 --> 00:50:43,228
Okay.

853
00:50:43,228 --> 00:50:47,320
To get to two million under like management.

854
00:50:47,881 --> 00:50:50,382
What's the most important thing you got to do?

855
00:50:50,583 --> 00:50:51,764
What's second?

856
00:50:51,764 --> 00:50:55,446
Now you may have someone who's like property acquisition.

857
00:50:55,544 --> 00:50:56,124
head, right?

858
00:50:56,124 --> 00:50:57,755
I don't know the business.

859
00:50:58,036 --> 00:51:11,000
That person who owns number one, they have their own V2, mom, if here's the five things
that they need to do to nail number one, number two, make sure current like, you know, are

860
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:11,908
happy, right?

861
00:51:11,908 --> 00:51:13,530
Okay, who owns that?

862
00:51:13,530 --> 00:51:15,291
Whose neck are you gonna ring?

863
00:51:15,291 --> 00:51:16,272
What are they?

864
00:51:16,272 --> 00:51:19,264
And so these things cascade in this pyramid.

865
00:51:19,486 --> 00:51:23,759
And the person down here should be connected to your vision up here.

866
00:51:23,759 --> 00:51:25,930
And if they're not, it's like, why are they here?

867
00:51:25,930 --> 00:51:36,818
If they're not helping us get to two million, you know, and whether it's retained or like,
they may be in the collections group, they may be in like whatever, they need to know how

868
00:51:36,818 --> 00:51:37,528
they fit.

869
00:51:37,528 --> 00:51:39,639
If they don't, they don't have a purpose.

870
00:51:39,639 --> 00:51:43,470
They're just showing up to work, collecting paycheck, going home and watching Netflix.

871
00:51:43,470 --> 00:51:44,590
So what is leadership then?

872
00:51:44,590 --> 00:51:50,348
If you said you should be able to break down what you do, what your business is, so what
is leadership?

873
00:51:50,348 --> 00:51:58,014
Leadership is focusing an organization and providing the resources needed to make that
focus happen.

874
00:51:58,074 --> 00:52:03,438
So if you say we want to do this, but you don't have the resources to do it, you're not a
leader.

875
00:52:03,539 --> 00:52:08,363
A leader kind of sets the course and make sure you have resources.

876
00:52:08,363 --> 00:52:13,868
And part of that is like, the right people in the right positions, which change over time.

877
00:52:13,868 --> 00:52:16,343
Some people don't make the traveling squad as you grow.

878
00:52:16,343 --> 00:52:17,167
Hmm.

879
00:52:18,835 --> 00:52:20,686
What's been your approach to developing talent?

880
00:52:20,686 --> 00:52:22,108
Do you find it or do you develop it?

881
00:52:22,108 --> 00:52:24,079
Because there's this big debate right now in the world.

882
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:27,502
Are the leaders found or are they developed?

883
00:52:27,502 --> 00:52:31,012
Well, let's talk about how do you define a leader or a manager?

884
00:52:31,012 --> 00:52:33,214
we talking like...

885
00:52:33,214 --> 00:52:34,114
some of your content.

886
00:52:34,114 --> 00:52:34,874
It's good.

887
00:52:35,214 --> 00:52:37,154
No, I'm talking about your people.

888
00:52:37,154 --> 00:52:40,734
He spoke to, know, I'm part of that's it.

889
00:52:40,734 --> 00:52:45,422
It's like you have these four or five key people that are now responsible for these
departments inside.

890
00:52:45,422 --> 00:52:50,782
I think you're born with certain skill sets and I think you can see it.

891
00:52:50,782 --> 00:52:52,302
I'll give you an example.

892
00:52:52,662 --> 00:52:54,822
Our good friend Mike Jandel, right?

893
00:52:54,822 --> 00:52:56,122
So we call him MJ.

894
00:52:56,262 --> 00:52:59,762
He came to us from, what was it?

895
00:53:01,202 --> 00:53:03,702
Six Sigma, which I was like, okay, whatever.

896
00:53:03,702 --> 00:53:04,757
I don't even know what that

897
00:53:04,757 --> 00:53:05,078
early 20s.

898
00:53:05,078 --> 00:53:05,169
20s.

899
00:53:05,169 --> 00:53:07,298
Or oh mid 20s.

900
00:53:07,298 --> 00:53:08,570
But here's what he had.

901
00:53:08,570 --> 00:53:14,047
He lost his father at an early age and he had the Jandal Turkey Farm.

902
00:53:14,047 --> 00:53:16,469
I'm not, dead serious.

903
00:53:16,958 --> 00:53:22,156
He run his family owned turkey farm.

904
00:53:22,392 --> 00:53:24,149
These are dirty.

905
00:53:24,149 --> 00:53:24,882
They're dirty.

906
00:53:24,882 --> 00:53:25,663
They're white.

907
00:53:25,663 --> 00:53:27,811
talk about shoveling, okay?

908
00:53:27,811 --> 00:53:29,582
um

909
00:53:29,582 --> 00:53:39,422
He knew how to, by, I think it was like 15, he was running, know, like half the farm staff
that were like in their 40s, right?

910
00:53:39,422 --> 00:53:49,362
So I think you have it in you and your job as a leader is to moneyball those strengths,
moneyball those skills into the right place.

911
00:53:49,462 --> 00:53:57,362
And that's like, that's the puzzle that I enjoy is to say, okay, now we need this, are
they in the same, are they in the right spot?

912
00:53:57,362 --> 00:53:59,596
For MJ, I just knew it from the minute I

913
00:53:59,596 --> 00:54:00,217
I met him.

914
00:54:00,217 --> 00:54:03,781
I just knew that he was going to be an incredible leader.

915
00:54:03,781 --> 00:54:09,509
I think others can grow into some of it, but they need support staff, right?

916
00:54:09,509 --> 00:54:12,122
Where you're always saying like, hey, did you communicate this?

917
00:54:12,122 --> 00:54:13,253
Did you do this?

918
00:54:13,253 --> 00:54:16,462
And you pair them with the right people around them.

919
00:54:16,462 --> 00:54:18,122
Are we talking about the it factor?

920
00:54:18,122 --> 00:54:20,362
And we're all trying to figure out what it is.

921
00:54:20,362 --> 00:54:20,722
Is that it?

922
00:54:20,722 --> 00:54:22,414
You're like, I just knew you had it.

923
00:54:22,414 --> 00:54:23,755
mean, it's it and it.

924
00:54:23,755 --> 00:54:29,700
knew, so like I look at people as are they going to be a worker or are they going to be
able to manage the people?

925
00:54:29,700 --> 00:54:32,332
And very few have the skill set.

926
00:54:32,332 --> 00:54:36,972
And also by the time you get a certain, like you don't want them doing it.

927
00:54:36,972 --> 00:54:37,583
think that is?

928
00:54:37,583 --> 00:54:46,441
we articulate, well, so somebody listening to this that thinks they want to start a
business, because you actually said in the book, one in five people are either thinking

929
00:54:46,441 --> 00:54:49,073
about a business or they're starting one, right?

930
00:54:49,073 --> 00:54:53,754
And so these are important things to know, because they should evaluate, I have these
things?

931
00:54:53,754 --> 00:54:56,135
of people are not managers.

932
00:54:56,315 --> 00:54:58,186
They cannot communicate well.

933
00:54:58,186 --> 00:54:59,797
They're not going to be the leader.

934
00:54:59,797 --> 00:55:05,520
um Think back to childhood when you were playing kickball.

935
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,641
Who got picked?

936
00:55:07,641 --> 00:55:12,763
You got to think and back into that kind of gritty experience.

937
00:55:12,763 --> 00:55:13,764
got to see.

938
00:55:13,764 --> 00:55:15,404
I always liked promoting people.

939
00:55:15,404 --> 00:55:22,687
I liked having flat organizations where my biz ops team would run a team that was new.

940
00:55:23,408 --> 00:55:28,214
and I'd see who was going to do their own job and the one that they wanted.

941
00:55:28,596 --> 00:55:31,861
Who was actually the one that could communicate the best?

942
00:55:31,861 --> 00:55:35,042
Because then you actually get the right person and the right job.

943
00:55:35,042 --> 00:55:36,242
heard you say that.

944
00:55:36,242 --> 00:55:40,142
There's so many things in the world now, it's very rare you hear something novel.

945
00:55:40,142 --> 00:55:40,942
Very rare.

946
00:55:40,942 --> 00:55:43,282
It's kind of like that's just a reproduction of the thing.

947
00:55:43,282 --> 00:55:46,222
But when I heard you say that, went, hmm.

948
00:55:46,222 --> 00:55:48,182
It was on a piece of content you put out.

949
00:55:48,182 --> 00:55:48,882
And I went, that's not it.

950
00:55:48,882 --> 00:55:56,242
Because what we used to hear was, you won't get paid for the job you want until you're
doing more of the job and you get paid for something.

951
00:55:56,242 --> 00:55:57,622
It's zig-zig where it's all these people.

952
00:55:57,622 --> 00:56:00,982
You have to do more than you're paid for, so one day you'll get paid for more than you
deserve.

953
00:56:00,982 --> 00:56:02,062
And this is an iteration of it.

954
00:56:02,062 --> 00:56:04,656
But I thought about that, and I went, that's what we're looking for.

955
00:56:04,656 --> 00:56:04,920
for.

956
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:06,628
You're looking for someone to do their job.

957
00:56:06,628 --> 00:56:07,281
That's it.

958
00:56:07,281 --> 00:56:08,686
And have and the one they want.

959
00:56:08,686 --> 00:56:17,586
That's it, because what I always find out is, what I found before I was an entrepreneur, I
was in some management companies, and I found out when I would reflect on people that I

960
00:56:17,586 --> 00:56:26,394
would promote, I promoted them based upon their past performance of their old job, and
that's a bad metric, because we all get promoted, usually, one level above our

961
00:56:26,394 --> 00:56:30,656
capabilities, and you don't know until they're failing.

962
00:56:30,656 --> 00:56:33,818
The way to fix that is if you currently see them doing the job.

963
00:56:33,818 --> 00:56:35,979
When I heard you say that, went, that's a little different.

964
00:56:35,979 --> 00:56:36,789
That's really good.

965
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:38,240
That's a good metric.

966
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,154
people willing to.

967
00:56:40,154 --> 00:56:41,634
it shuts people up.

968
00:56:41,634 --> 00:56:49,314
Yeah, because when they say like I'd like to get my promotion like they were are we
getting raises this year and all this stuff Yeah, I haven't seen you do anything but just

969
00:56:49,314 --> 00:56:49,954
what's there.

970
00:56:49,954 --> 00:56:53,534
Yeah, which is awesome But this is what it's worth.

971
00:56:53,574 --> 00:57:00,538
But if I see you stepping up and really helping out in X Y & Z There's a difference

972
00:57:00,538 --> 00:57:01,853
you a tough leader?

973
00:57:02,016 --> 00:57:02,846
I think I am.

974
00:57:02,846 --> 00:57:09,449
I think I demand a lot, but I'm really fair and I communicate very well.

975
00:57:09,449 --> 00:57:11,490
And I will always be honest.

976
00:57:11,490 --> 00:57:18,734
And if you end up getting cut by me, I'm going to make sure you know exactly why and what
you have to work on.

977
00:57:18,734 --> 00:57:22,916
All right, so have a few more minutes, but I this will lead into something currently
happening in society.

978
00:57:22,916 --> 00:57:26,207
So we talk about transparencies on us with all of your employees, right?

979
00:57:26,207 --> 00:57:28,378
We talk about over communication.

980
00:57:28,439 --> 00:57:31,060
It's not going over well now with the new generations.

981
00:57:31,060 --> 00:57:35,302
I'm actually seeing it's not going over well because they can't the stress.

982
00:57:35,302 --> 00:57:36,042
And I don't know.

983
00:57:36,042 --> 00:57:42,745
And what I want them to do, everybody listening to this, like don't, don't take it
personal, but the reality is this is the real world.

984
00:57:42,745 --> 00:57:48,788
And if you want to succeed and thrive in it, you're going to have to be in an environment
where you're reflective on your ability

985
00:57:48,788 --> 00:57:51,869
your skills, your outcomes, and you're really self-aware.

986
00:57:51,869 --> 00:57:55,050
Everyone thinks they're self-aware, but yet hardly anyone is.

987
00:57:55,050 --> 00:57:56,971
Self-awareness isn't what I think about me.

988
00:57:56,971 --> 00:57:59,131
It's what's the outside world seeing.

989
00:57:59,131 --> 00:58:01,252
Am I self-aware of really what's going on here?

990
00:58:01,252 --> 00:58:03,253
So, that's it.

991
00:58:03,253 --> 00:58:06,210
What's truly, honestly happening from me showing up here?

992
00:58:06,210 --> 00:58:10,659
But that all comes down to, in my humble opinion, distress tolerance.

993
00:58:10,659 --> 00:58:15,330
We have created kids who get eighth place trophies.

994
00:58:15,330 --> 00:58:16,833
So how do we help them fix this?

995
00:58:16,833 --> 00:58:17,716
Now can we?

996
00:58:17,716 --> 00:58:21,774
Or they're just gonna have to just fail through it and just, well, it's gonna stop for
another decade.

997
00:58:21,774 --> 00:58:27,416
One is we have to have companies hiring young kids in office.

998
00:58:27,637 --> 00:58:32,499
They can't be doing internships and their first jobs working from home.

999
00:58:32,499 --> 00:58:40,903
They will never learn unless they are in an office learning affect, learning moods,
tension, politics.

1000
00:58:40,903 --> 00:58:42,994
How do you, you know, manage up?

1001
00:58:42,994 --> 00:58:44,405
How do you manage down?

1002
00:58:44,405 --> 00:58:47,806
We have to start giving the skill sets by leading by example.

1003
00:58:47,806 --> 00:58:49,027
That's the first thing.

1004
00:58:49,027 --> 00:58:51,568
The second thing is you have to understand

1005
00:58:51,568 --> 00:58:54,268
and care enough to communicate this.

1006
00:58:54,268 --> 00:59:00,028
I've had arguments with kids between the ages of 20 and 26 over and over again.

1007
00:59:00,028 --> 00:59:02,508
They don't like how I talk.

1008
00:59:02,508 --> 00:59:03,648
They don't like it.

1009
00:59:03,648 --> 00:59:05,908
They don't like, this is just not how we do things.

1010
00:59:05,908 --> 00:59:08,588
If we don't like something, we're just going to quit.

1011
00:59:08,588 --> 00:59:09,108
It's okay.

1012
00:59:09,108 --> 00:59:13,588
And you will be just an employee over and over and over over again.

1013
00:59:13,588 --> 00:59:14,988
And that's fine.

1014
00:59:14,988 --> 00:59:20,608
But if you would like a life that affords X, Y, and Z, this is what you have to do.

1015
00:59:20,608 --> 00:59:21,498
You have to be

1016
00:59:21,498 --> 00:59:25,391
able to hear uncomfortable things and say them.

1017
00:59:25,391 --> 00:59:28,874
Remember, the three of us had to pick up a phone.

1018
00:59:29,108 --> 00:59:31,437
Hi, this is Kass.

1019
00:59:31,437 --> 00:59:32,558
How are you doing Mrs.

1020
00:59:32,558 --> 00:59:33,259
Davis?

1021
00:59:33,259 --> 00:59:34,780
Is Sarah home?

1022
00:59:34,780 --> 00:59:35,821
May I please?

1023
00:59:35,821 --> 00:59:36,552
how was your day?

1024
00:59:36,552 --> 00:59:37,903
You had to have conversations.

1025
00:59:37,903 --> 00:59:40,438
They don't know how to communicate and that's on us.

1026
00:59:40,438 --> 00:59:43,450
Yeah, I think the other part is, it's this resilience piece, right?

1027
00:59:43,450 --> 00:59:50,695
It's like when we're coming to New York City and I'm reaching out and we're putting this
together and dinners and books and all this, you know, my first ask was like, I'd love you

1028
00:59:50,695 --> 00:59:52,026
guys to come to Cincinnati.

1029
00:59:52,026 --> 00:59:54,768
And it was a nice response, but it's like, hey, a couple of things.

1030
00:59:54,768 --> 00:59:58,501
We're really busy, but also like it's like 50 grand for us to show up.

1031
00:59:58,501 --> 00:59:58,861
Right.

1032
00:59:58,861 --> 00:59:59,121
Right.

1033
00:59:59,121 --> 00:59:59,875
And I look at that.

1034
00:59:59,875 --> 01:00:02,414
I don't want to hear that, but I'm like, OK, what now?

1035
01:00:02,414 --> 01:00:02,794
Right.

1036
01:00:02,794 --> 01:00:04,094
OK, what now?

1037
01:00:06,056 --> 01:00:07,527
Sorry, that is what it is.

1038
01:00:07,527 --> 01:00:08,362
Like, OK, what?

1039
01:00:08,362 --> 01:00:12,121
And remember, being an entrepreneur, you have to learn how to ask for money.

1040
01:00:12,121 --> 01:00:13,172
Yes.

1041
01:00:13,172 --> 01:00:17,116
Well, being great entrepreneurs, might maybe not like Gary never ask for any money.

1042
01:00:17,116 --> 01:00:18,117
You just do it.

1043
01:00:18,117 --> 01:00:20,860
But if you do, you can get so many notes.

1044
01:00:20,860 --> 01:00:21,540
So many.

1045
01:00:21,540 --> 01:00:22,606
So many.

1046
01:00:22,606 --> 01:00:26,648
what we have to do is hopefully create an environment and you're going through this.

1047
01:00:26,648 --> 01:00:27,308
That's it.

1048
01:00:27,308 --> 01:00:34,730
And where you actually, the challenge is, and I'm trying to figure out, you're looking at
them and saying, hey, like I believe in what you're capable of what you can do, but you're

1049
01:00:34,730 --> 01:00:36,091
just gonna have to work through this.

1050
01:00:36,091 --> 01:00:43,534
You have to, because at least you're in an environment where there's a group of people
that truly care about you and we want good outcomes, but there's no easy ways to solve

1051
01:00:43,534 --> 01:00:44,110
this shit.

1052
01:00:44,110 --> 01:00:47,110
And it's getting harder and harder to find those environments.

1053
01:00:47,110 --> 01:00:55,054
Like the idea of apprenticeship, whether you were an accountant or lawyer or even doctor
to a certain extent.

1054
01:00:55,054 --> 01:00:57,742
Is it margins are shrinking so much we don't use the capital?

1055
01:00:57,742 --> 01:00:58,242
do it.

1056
01:00:58,242 --> 01:01:00,302
It's laziness and margin.

1057
01:01:01,682 --> 01:01:16,942
think 2020, you know, when we had COVID and it basically, we got to a point of, of it is
okay to work from home and not see people in person.

1058
01:01:16,942 --> 01:01:18,242
And it worked.

1059
01:01:18,242 --> 01:01:19,902
We were so afraid of it before.

1060
01:01:19,902 --> 01:01:24,462
Remember every, but all companies had like maybe half day Fridays, right?

1061
01:01:24,462 --> 01:01:26,222
And like, Oh my God, PTO.

1062
01:01:26,355 --> 01:01:29,222
done a work video call before COVID.

1063
01:01:30,128 --> 01:01:32,955
Unless you were at a law firm doing a deal or something.

1064
01:01:32,955 --> 01:01:37,194
how you looked mattered, what you were dressing like mattered.

1065
01:01:37,213 --> 01:01:39,714
and just hair pulled, that's not, that wasn't okay.

1066
01:01:39,714 --> 01:01:41,005
done matter anymore.

1067
01:01:41,005 --> 01:01:42,926
And so I think we've gotten away.

1068
01:01:42,926 --> 01:01:44,997
I think it's good for certain people.

1069
01:01:44,997 --> 01:01:53,460
I think it's great because I think there's a whole uncovered workforce of moms that could
do great work more than part time and deliver.

1070
01:01:54,041 --> 01:01:59,303
And if we're going to fix working, like how do companies work?

1071
01:01:59,303 --> 01:02:02,845
We need to get these kids back in the office.

1072
01:02:02,845 --> 01:02:05,826
We've had one of our sons has had every internship.

1073
01:02:05,826 --> 01:02:07,707
He's a senior now in college.

1074
01:02:07,767 --> 01:02:09,358
Every internship has

1075
01:02:09,358 --> 01:02:12,275
in remote, every single one.

1076
01:02:13,060 --> 01:02:15,156
That's just the most ridiculous thing.

1077
01:02:15,156 --> 01:02:16,101
not an internship.

1078
01:02:16,101 --> 01:02:17,544
It's not.

1079
01:02:17,729 --> 01:02:18,094
No.

1080
01:02:18,094 --> 01:02:19,334
What does he learn?

1081
01:02:19,334 --> 01:02:24,534
mean, he did good work, but like that's not what we want and like same thing about
college.

1082
01:02:24,534 --> 01:02:28,734
College isn't basically to like go master economics or whatever you're studying.

1083
01:02:28,734 --> 01:02:32,694
It's to figure out how you deal with people in a community, right?

1084
01:02:32,694 --> 01:02:33,494
In community.

1085
01:02:33,494 --> 01:02:35,294
How do relationships work?

1086
01:02:35,294 --> 01:02:36,374
How do you do group projects?

1087
01:02:36,374 --> 01:02:37,994
How do you take care of yourself?

1088
01:02:37,994 --> 01:02:40,294
We're not showing them how to do that.

1089
01:02:40,294 --> 01:02:41,514
Well, it's never

1090
01:02:42,286 --> 01:02:51,726
So we're at a time when it's gonna be impossible to get ahead as a young person in
corporate America.

1091
01:02:52,926 --> 01:02:56,486
career paths are dead.

1092
01:02:56,486 --> 01:03:03,546
And the reason is you were hired as a young person to do a lot of busy work that no one
wanted to do, right?

1093
01:03:03,546 --> 01:03:06,766
Whether it was create decks, put together a report, do this.

1094
01:03:07,746 --> 01:03:10,046
I'm using AI for all that.

1095
01:03:10,186 --> 01:03:12,046
So it's like I have 10.

1096
01:03:12,046 --> 01:03:20,089
20 young people working for me doing financial reports, doing analysis, doing PowerPoint,
doing research.

1097
01:03:20,089 --> 01:03:33,015
And so your job as a young person is to know how to manage virtual employees so you can
start and be the most productive person at the company.

1098
01:03:33,015 --> 01:03:34,135
You could do anything.

1099
01:03:34,135 --> 01:03:35,605
Just tell me what you want me to do.

1100
01:03:35,605 --> 01:03:36,336
I'll do decks.

1101
01:03:36,336 --> 01:03:37,536
I'll do a financial.

1102
01:03:37,536 --> 01:03:39,337
I'll be a financial analyst.

1103
01:03:39,617 --> 01:03:41,838
If you don't know anything, you have a brain.

1104
01:03:41,838 --> 01:03:42,579
right?

1105
01:03:42,579 --> 01:03:44,180
A language model.

1106
01:03:44,321 --> 01:03:46,624
Pick your favorite one.

1107
01:03:46,624 --> 01:03:48,585
You don't need to know anything.

1108
01:03:48,947 --> 01:03:50,288
You don't need to know anything.

1109
01:03:50,288 --> 01:03:52,070
You just ask, right?

1110
01:03:52,070 --> 01:03:57,377
You create a brain, an external brain, and then you automate tasks.

1111
01:03:57,377 --> 01:04:01,018
People you're working for and be like, this is like baby Jesus.

1112
01:04:01,018 --> 01:04:01,934
Like, who is this?

1113
01:04:01,934 --> 01:04:03,894
You are right though.

1114
01:04:03,894 --> 01:04:08,034
We've we've taken away, we're about to take away all of that grunt work.

1115
01:04:08,654 --> 01:04:16,014
But I'm saying like in companies, you're not getting, I'm not saying like getting cups of
coffee was good, but like you're not doing that anymore.

1116
01:04:16,014 --> 01:04:18,354
Think about all the management consulting firms.

1117
01:04:18,354 --> 01:04:23,406
They've laid off so many people at that junior level because they just don't need it.

1118
01:04:23,406 --> 01:04:24,957
advice are you giving to your kids?

1119
01:04:25,390 --> 01:04:27,250
Well, so our oldest is 24.

1120
01:04:27,250 --> 01:04:31,890
He has an AI consultancy for small businesses.

1121
01:04:31,890 --> 01:04:39,070
So he helps them set up a brain, all their data so they can like talk to it and be
productive.

1122
01:04:39,070 --> 01:04:42,550
And then he launches virtual employees, small businesses.

1123
01:04:42,550 --> 01:04:46,090
These are businesses that could never hire like a chief AI officer.

1124
01:04:46,890 --> 01:04:47,690
have.

1125
01:04:48,610 --> 01:04:49,950
Yeah, it could be 10.

1126
01:04:49,950 --> 01:04:51,250
It could be smaller.

1127
01:04:51,250 --> 01:04:54,410
We then have a senior who

1128
01:04:55,594 --> 01:05:02,254
is hungry to work in sports and he is basically has a mentality of all work in the mall in
the mail room.

1129
01:05:02,254 --> 01:05:10,074
And but we tell them, especially those two, because our daughter wants to be in medicine,
she wants to be in research.

1130
01:05:10,074 --> 01:05:11,174
But we tell her the same thing.

1131
01:05:11,174 --> 01:05:14,934
She's got to understand how AI is going to power medicine.

1132
01:05:14,934 --> 01:05:17,934
But we tell them is understand sales.

1133
01:05:18,214 --> 01:05:19,314
It's a great skill set.

1134
01:05:19,314 --> 01:05:20,754
It's never going to go away.

1135
01:05:20,754 --> 01:05:22,434
And understand people.

1136
01:05:22,534 --> 01:05:23,094
Right?

1137
01:05:23,634 --> 01:05:24,554
That's network.

1138
01:05:24,554 --> 01:05:25,694
Build your network.

1139
01:05:26,014 --> 01:05:26,510
Yeah.

1140
01:05:26,510 --> 01:05:37,030
Which is important like and our kids have the benefit of having a network a lot of people
don't Right, like they grew up in New York City like they grew up with Gary Vaynerchuk at

1141
01:05:37,030 --> 01:05:50,650
Sunday brunch, right like they Have seen stuff and I think people who haven't have to
reach out have to show up and say How can I help you and never before young people have

1142
01:05:50,650 --> 01:05:52,118
the power to help?

1143
01:05:52,118 --> 01:06:03,182
Because if you know how to automate, how to like use some of these tools, you walk into
kind of a used car parts, like retailer and say, wouldn't it be great to get all of your

1144
01:06:03,182 --> 01:06:14,236
SKUs, what sold the day before, what you're running low on an inventory and who are your
top sales people just emailed you in the morning with five recommendations to optimize

1145
01:06:14,236 --> 01:06:14,926
your business.

1146
01:06:14,926 --> 01:06:16,842
just like Walmart works for their tire center.

1147
01:06:16,842 --> 01:06:18,094
So now you can compete at that.

1148
01:06:18,094 --> 01:06:20,094
Like, would you like that?

1149
01:06:20,114 --> 01:06:21,054
Yeah, of course.

1150
01:06:21,054 --> 01:06:22,454
Okay, well, I'm 22.

1151
01:06:22,454 --> 01:06:25,172
Pay me 10 grand a month and you'll have it in a month.

1152
01:06:25,172 --> 01:06:34,267
Our oldest helped his friend spin up basically AI generated websites for small businesses.

1153
01:06:34,267 --> 01:06:35,588
His friend Nikki.

1154
01:06:37,830 --> 01:06:41,592
And Nikki is an EMT, full-time EMT, right?

1155
01:06:41,592 --> 01:06:43,493
But he wanted to make more money.

1156
01:06:43,573 --> 01:06:44,840
This is what they know.

1157
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:49,603
for-profit school, how do you like optimize your enrollment?

1158
01:06:49,603 --> 01:06:55,816
Yeah, right to get the right kids in the right kind of classes like all of this.

1159
01:06:55,876 --> 01:06:57,537
No old people know it.

1160
01:06:57,537 --> 01:06:59,238
So when we started out.

1161
01:07:00,259 --> 01:07:02,620
No one knew the Internet when we started, right?

1162
01:07:02,620 --> 01:07:08,773
So when I started back in 9493 with my first business, no one knew social media.

1163
01:07:08,773 --> 01:07:09,777
We jumped into that.

1164
01:07:09,777 --> 01:07:11,727
No one knew like Web 3.

1165
01:07:11,727 --> 01:07:12,726
No one knew AI.

1166
01:07:12,726 --> 01:07:13,466
So

1167
01:07:13,678 --> 01:07:18,358
Our whole career has been like being a little early, not too early.

1168
01:07:18,358 --> 01:07:21,458
There are people doing AI and machine learning 20 years ago.

1169
01:07:21,498 --> 01:07:22,778
Good for them, right?

1170
01:07:22,778 --> 01:07:25,138
Like, thank you for inventing all this stuff.

1171
01:07:25,258 --> 01:07:33,398
But once things, you start to see people you respect interested, for me it's, what are my
smartest friends interested in?

1172
01:07:33,978 --> 01:07:37,198
Like, what are the developers interested in?

1173
01:07:37,258 --> 01:07:39,978
What are people like Gary interested in?

1174
01:07:39,978 --> 01:07:43,658
So when Gary shows up at our office at 34 years old,

1175
01:07:44,430 --> 01:07:48,790
He says very flat out, I've worked for my dad my whole career.

1176
01:07:48,790 --> 01:07:49,970
I have no money.

1177
01:07:49,970 --> 01:07:51,770
I can't afford an office.

1178
01:07:51,770 --> 01:07:53,110
Can I use your conference room?

1179
01:07:53,110 --> 01:07:56,310
I have this vision for a social media agency.

1180
01:07:56,310 --> 01:08:03,430
Now it's like a full agency to just do what I did for my dad's store, six million to 70
million for other businesses.

1181
01:08:03,430 --> 01:08:10,810
We're like, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, talk to this person who runs the place and cast say
yes.

1182
01:08:10,810 --> 01:08:12,006
But like.

1183
01:08:12,974 --> 01:08:15,994
No one knew social media and Gary took it.

1184
01:08:15,994 --> 01:08:17,714
No one knows AI.

1185
01:08:18,554 --> 01:08:23,917
Are you the person who could take it and run with it, whether you're 25, 35, whatever?

1186
01:08:23,917 --> 01:08:25,597
I know we're out of time.

1187
01:08:25,597 --> 01:08:27,117
We have to give.

1188
01:08:27,177 --> 01:08:28,417
I want to say this again.

1189
01:08:28,417 --> 01:08:29,109
know what time it is.

1190
01:08:29,109 --> 01:08:30,612
I don't even know where we are.

1191
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:38,998
It's very hard and it's ambiguous and it's kind of not tangible for kids to be like
learning AI and then go help people out, right?

1192
01:08:39,319 --> 01:08:44,304
So I would argue let's do a little more action, you know, actionable things.

1193
01:08:44,304 --> 01:08:49,449
Let's have companies actually care to bring in employees and teach them.

1194
01:08:49,762 --> 01:08:53,900
Yeah, when you touched on was, well, then you got.

1195
01:08:55,725 --> 01:08:57,565
Did you guys ever read the book?

1196
01:08:57,565 --> 01:08:59,625
I was called like the ultimate gift.

1197
01:09:00,025 --> 01:09:02,905
You didn't listen to it or read it, didn't know about it?

1198
01:09:02,905 --> 01:09:09,365
Okay, and so at the end of it, I'm pretty sure it's based on a true story, I think it is,
right?

1199
01:09:09,365 --> 01:09:19,125
But at the end of it, this guy who had built a billion dollar net worth and his whole
family just was expecting it, they didn't work for anything, they were all spoiled, but at

1200
01:09:19,125 --> 01:09:23,886
end of it, he had this grand nephew and

1201
01:09:23,886 --> 01:09:27,486
The great nephew was spoiled, but he said, you have to do this for an entire year.

1202
01:09:27,486 --> 01:09:29,546
And he made his interning run, but you have to do this for whole year.

1203
01:09:29,546 --> 01:09:30,906
You have to do all these things.

1204
01:09:30,906 --> 01:09:37,346
But at the end of it, he said, I now see what my job is and what my great uncle wanted me
to do.

1205
01:09:37,346 --> 01:09:41,806
And it was take this thing I've learned and go out and do it in the rest of the world.

1206
01:09:41,806 --> 01:09:48,946
And so, what I've learned in business, we're not gonna be able to force any other
businesses to do something they don't wanna do in the metrics.

1207
01:09:48,946 --> 01:09:51,506
So, you guys are gonna have to do it.

1208
01:09:51,914 --> 01:09:57,680
If you're really that passionate, now it has to be a model where you make some money
around it, or else you're not gonna put your time into it.

1209
01:09:59,210 --> 01:10:07,512
The great thing about AI is it's not what we read about open AI and like entropic raising
at a 300 billion dollars.

1210
01:10:07,993 --> 01:10:17,646
The reality is AI is for our search firm, helping us find better candidates faster so we
can deliver for clients.

1211
01:10:17,646 --> 01:10:21,077
It's about automated automating some of the back office.

1212
01:10:21,077 --> 01:10:24,590
So we don't have to spend all this time closing books.

1213
01:10:24,590 --> 01:10:31,930
Someone that's not as intelligent as you guys are on the tech space and you found all
these companies like, but it just makes me better.

1214
01:10:31,930 --> 01:10:34,090
Yeah, it just makes me better.

1215
01:10:34,090 --> 01:10:37,038
me smarter than I otherwise wouldn't be.

1216
01:10:37,038 --> 01:10:40,503
just jump into ChatGPT.

1217
01:10:40,503 --> 01:10:46,850
Go to YouTube, search for, if you're in the real estate business, AI for Realtors.

1218
01:10:47,351 --> 01:10:53,158
And just watch, just learn, and do an analysis of your day.

1219
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:55,950
How much of it is spent busy work.

1220
01:10:55,950 --> 01:10:58,322
You can even ask Chef GV.

1221
01:10:58,322 --> 01:10:59,226
It's incredible.

1222
01:10:59,226 --> 01:11:02,595
can hook up your calendar and say like, what am I wasting my time doing?

1223
01:11:02,595 --> 01:11:04,928
how I grow daily when I engage with it.

1224
01:11:04,928 --> 01:11:15,415
Let's say I engage, I'll just take an hour, not all at one time, but if I would take an
hour and engage, my learning probably increases by 20 or 30 % versus the way it did the

1225
01:11:15,415 --> 01:11:16,476
day before.

1226
01:11:17,004 --> 01:11:22,958
only that, but what about the fact that you can launch searches and go do something else?

1227
01:11:22,958 --> 01:11:25,938
incredible and come back 20 minutes later and here it is.

1228
01:11:25,938 --> 01:11:27,358
And you that would have cost us.

1229
01:11:27,358 --> 01:11:29,558
We probably wouldn't even know where to find the resource.

1230
01:11:29,558 --> 01:11:31,238
But what can happen now?

1231
01:11:31,238 --> 01:11:33,818
I'm like that probably would have cost me a hundred grand.

1232
01:11:36,078 --> 01:11:38,238
I love it.

1233
01:11:38,238 --> 01:11:39,138
It's a little scary.

1234
01:11:39,138 --> 01:11:40,138
mean change is scary.

1235
01:11:40,138 --> 01:11:42,688
I mean it is whether we have to accept it.

1236
01:11:42,688 --> 01:11:44,321
It's happening either way.

1237
01:11:45,519 --> 01:11:46,896
will happen too.

1238
01:11:46,896 --> 01:11:48,552
We will learn to adapt.

1239
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:52,201
What are you guys, so Shovell and Chit, this has had massive success.

1240
01:11:52,201 --> 01:11:55,190
You have to be proud of the book and the story that you're being.

1241
01:11:55,190 --> 01:11:56,130
so excited.

1242
01:11:56,130 --> 01:11:59,267
Like it couldn't have been, it couldn't have been better received.

1243
01:11:59,267 --> 01:12:00,669
We had a plan.

1244
01:12:00,669 --> 01:12:04,967
We did a V2 mom for it and we executed and we got the results.

1245
01:12:04,967 --> 01:12:07,266
Like that's what we're most proud

1246
01:12:07,339 --> 01:12:09,261
so am I allowed to say what's next?

1247
01:12:09,342 --> 01:12:10,223
Yeah, sure.

1248
01:12:10,223 --> 01:12:11,404
What's next?

1249
01:12:12,847 --> 01:12:20,431
No, that's You know, we want to move on to the next thing and it's like man How long are
you allowed to stay here and run this?

1250
01:12:20,431 --> 01:12:21,582
We know what's next.

1251
01:12:21,582 --> 01:12:26,858
mean we We have our own V2 mom for this year, right?

1252
01:12:26,858 --> 01:12:39,113
We Yeah, and so we have we're to continue to support entrepreneurs in whatever that looks
like off our own balance sheet We have you know the funds we buy businesses and start but

1253
01:12:39,113 --> 01:12:39,933
like

1254
01:12:40,056 --> 01:12:47,921
for the most part by and we're having a lot of fun with just like the speaking and the
podcasts and we don't have a podcast takes a lot of work.

1255
01:12:47,921 --> 01:12:52,834
We like going on other people's and that's we've gotten.

1256
01:12:53,735 --> 01:12:56,407
Well, that's we're also very interested in longevity health.

1257
01:12:56,407 --> 01:13:04,922
of the businesses are in there and now that we're empty nesters, so to speak, even though
they'll come back.

1258
01:13:05,504 --> 01:13:10,018
There's a new phase for us and being able to travel, meet with people, speak to groups.

1259
01:13:10,018 --> 01:13:15,092
uh It's a little weird that people will pay us to show up now.

1260
01:13:15,092 --> 01:13:17,414
write a book and it becomes a bestseller and people want you.

1261
01:13:17,414 --> 01:13:19,872
like, same schmucks we were before the book.

1262
01:13:19,872 --> 01:13:32,669
I think for me it will be fun to finally have the time to be with other people that are
like us, like this opportunity, like next time we're in Cincinnati, we're coming.

1263
01:13:32,669 --> 01:13:34,147
100%.

1264
01:13:34,147 --> 01:13:41,375
that's the cool part is we spent a year talking on other people's shows and finally
finding more people like us.

1265
01:13:41,476 --> 01:13:42,688
And that will be fun.

1266
01:13:42,688 --> 01:13:47,193
Like I have this dream, won't happen this spring, that we get what are they called?

1267
01:13:47,193 --> 01:13:50,507
Winnebago's or tour bus and we just.

1268
01:13:51,268 --> 01:13:52,174
Whatever.

1269
01:13:52,174 --> 01:13:53,774
You're gonna do this Kass.

1270
01:13:53,774 --> 01:13:55,374
You're gonna fall into that trap.

1271
01:13:55,374 --> 01:13:59,894
We've seen people do this and they sell it for 50 % of what they paid for it.

1272
01:14:00,313 --> 01:14:02,527
no, we're renting.

1273
01:14:02,527 --> 01:14:04,419
You rent a tour bus with a driver.

1274
01:14:04,419 --> 01:14:06,763
We want to go visit our new friends and old friends.

1275
01:14:06,763 --> 01:14:07,043
Yeah.

1276
01:14:07,043 --> 01:14:07,494
Yeah.

1277
01:14:07,494 --> 01:14:09,516
And just show up with the dogs and hey.

1278
01:14:09,516 --> 01:14:13,398
like literally fly, fly, fly, fly, fly, fly, You know what?

1279
01:14:13,398 --> 01:14:15,062
I want to go see people.

1280
01:14:15,062 --> 01:14:17,294
I want to do things with our dogs.

1281
01:14:17,294 --> 01:14:18,754
What took so long to do it?

1282
01:14:18,754 --> 01:14:20,354
Because I thought about too.

1283
01:14:21,994 --> 01:14:24,234
So here's what I thought about.

1284
01:14:24,234 --> 01:14:34,014
I thought about as we're starting to travel around and go meet more people, what you just
said is, is it's my why to go be around people that are thinking similar, that have

1285
01:14:34,014 --> 01:14:36,234
similar mindsets, understand that have this.

1286
01:14:36,234 --> 01:14:38,554
I'm like, I want to be in rooms now.

1287
01:14:38,554 --> 01:14:40,334
I don't want to be the smartest guy in the room.

1288
01:14:40,334 --> 01:14:45,142
I want to fill rooms with other people who have done big things and I'm inspired from just
being in them.

1289
01:14:45,142 --> 01:14:50,206
let me ask you, here's another icky truth about being an entrepreneur.

1290
01:14:50,206 --> 01:14:53,949
When we were in the thick of it, we didn't have a lot of friends.

1291
01:14:53,949 --> 01:15:05,197
oh And so now that we uh launched kids, for the most part, now we want to actually

1292
01:15:05,197 --> 01:15:05,567
those.

1293
01:15:05,567 --> 01:15:06,530
Yeah.

1294
01:15:06,530 --> 01:15:07,831
Like I think.

1295
01:15:08,022 --> 01:15:11,246
We had friends, but they're the same ones from high school, from college.

1296
01:15:11,246 --> 01:15:13,986
I meant like.

1297
01:15:14,366 --> 01:15:15,346
A little bit sad.

1298
01:15:15,346 --> 01:15:15,971
That's the second.

1299
01:15:15,971 --> 01:15:22,006
it's sad because you haven't been able to, there's an exchange in everything and doing
this business.

1300
01:15:22,667 --> 01:15:28,852
there is because if I did show up as a friend, I'm gonna be a 20 % friend and no one wants
that.

1301
01:15:28,852 --> 01:15:33,577
And then what happens is not being around for two or three or four years, the phone stops
ringing.

1302
01:15:33,577 --> 01:15:34,875
The texts stop coming.

1303
01:15:34,875 --> 01:15:36,057
can't do this.

1304
01:15:36,334 --> 01:15:42,217
Or you're the parents who never made friends with the other parents at school because you
were never at the parent events, right?

1305
01:15:42,217 --> 01:15:45,779
So you go to graduation, you're like, who are all these other parents?

1306
01:15:45,779 --> 01:15:50,038
They seem to be best friends because they've just been hanging out with the kids going on
vacation.

1307
01:15:50,038 --> 01:15:50,921
place.

1308
01:15:51,535 --> 01:15:58,681
And so now what I look forward to is can we now develop more friendships, right?

1309
01:15:58,681 --> 01:15:59,822
And we have the time.

1310
01:15:59,822 --> 01:16:06,982
to spend time around people that you, the people that I spend, I actually had a
conversation with my significant other.

1311
01:16:06,982 --> 01:16:09,942
We gotta come up with a better term for not married, we've together 18 years.

1312
01:16:10,062 --> 01:16:14,082
Yeah, and so we actually had this conversation.

1313
01:16:14,082 --> 01:16:22,222
We're going to Annamarie Island next week for four or five days, house on the beach, but I
was like, you know what, I'm going to work, but come along.

1314
01:16:22,822 --> 01:16:26,422
But I was like, this house is huge, and it's just an amazing location.

1315
01:16:26,422 --> 01:16:29,062
And I was like, man, I'm calling some of my people.

1316
01:16:29,794 --> 01:16:31,296
There aren't many people to call.

1317
01:16:33,302 --> 01:16:34,855
so I think, here's what I told her.

1318
01:16:34,855 --> 01:16:35,665
said,

1319
01:16:35,702 --> 01:16:42,367
We could call them and they would say yes, but I don't want to spend time with most of
those people because I don't want to have to have context around everything.

1320
01:16:42,367 --> 01:16:46,371
I want to walk in, give a fist pump, what's up y'all, let's go.

1321
01:16:46,371 --> 01:16:51,054
And you don't have to understand and learn and worry about what you're going to say 100%.

1322
01:16:51,054 --> 01:16:53,717
It is just comfortable.

1323
01:16:53,717 --> 01:16:56,499
those are, they go away in this world of entrepreneur.

1324
01:16:56,499 --> 01:16:59,071
It's a little sad, but now you're in a moment where you can create those again.

1325
01:16:59,071 --> 01:16:59,982
Yeah.

1326
01:17:00,085 --> 01:17:00,414
And

1327
01:17:00,414 --> 01:17:04,403
But you also pick up meaningful relationships through work.

1328
01:17:04,798 --> 01:17:08,390
And that's what I'm, I didn't want to discount all the friends that we do have.

1329
01:17:08,390 --> 01:17:08,752
Yeah.

1330
01:17:08,752 --> 01:17:11,686
But I want to be able to go see those friends.

1331
01:17:11,686 --> 01:17:12,966
you know what I with my friends?

1332
01:17:12,966 --> 01:17:17,406
I sell them places in Florida now because we have this brokerage in six states.

1333
01:17:17,606 --> 01:17:18,906
So, but they want to hang out with me.

1334
01:17:18,906 --> 01:17:23,686
That's like guys, I can only come in to hang out when I'm down there doing business and I
can go to lunch with you one time.

1335
01:17:23,686 --> 01:17:26,186
But if you're a cool person, they want more.

1336
01:17:26,186 --> 01:17:27,646
I can't give you more.

1337
01:17:27,646 --> 01:17:28,826
I wish I could.

1338
01:17:28,826 --> 01:17:29,454
Right.

1339
01:17:29,454 --> 01:17:35,354
Yeah, and I and you know, we have dogs and yes, we like playing golf and we fly fishing.

1340
01:17:35,354 --> 01:17:37,834
So why can't we do?

1341
01:17:39,134 --> 01:17:40,721
Make it around our front.

1342
01:17:40,721 --> 01:17:41,652
a hundred percent.

1343
01:17:41,652 --> 01:17:42,613
That's exciting.

1344
01:17:42,613 --> 01:17:46,678
So that's what's next uh Shoveling shit do

1345
01:17:48,652 --> 01:17:49,657
For one and done.

1346
01:17:49,657 --> 01:17:50,594
Okay.

1347
01:17:50,594 --> 01:17:51,817
Um, thank you guys.

1348
01:17:51,817 --> 01:17:53,409
like these good, honest conversations.

1349
01:17:53,409 --> 01:17:55,873
I'm pumped to follow it and say, what do they invest in?

1350
01:17:55,873 --> 01:17:59,810
Because if you come up with some more liquid deaths, you come up with some more of those.

1351
01:17:59,810 --> 01:18:01,650
I mean, that thing hit big.

1352
01:18:01,650 --> 01:18:03,152
That's a big business.

1353
01:18:03,152 --> 01:18:11,761
We have others that are, like we have a few companies that are so much bigger now that we
started at the beginning.

1354
01:18:12,110 --> 01:18:12,792
excited.

1355
01:18:12,792 --> 01:18:15,244
So we'll hang around and just figure out how it's done a bit.

1356
01:18:17,048 --> 01:18:21,172
Guys, I prefer not to eat more imposed than already happened.

1357
01:18:22,362 --> 01:18:23,206
All right, guys, thank you.

1358
01:18:23,206 --> 01:18:23,486
it.

1359
01:18:23,486 --> 01:18:24,397
Okay.