#168 - Why Execution Beats Hype in Business — Tyler Dunagin on Scaling Turnserv

0:00 There's an element of just ultimate fear and just terror and like, you know, being scared of kind of going down a certain path or what have you. think for me, just trying to face a certain fear and showing up and still doing also motivates me. All right, you all welcome back to our awesome guest to another episode. We're keeping this one all in Ohio and Kentucky. Today's guest is a guy named Tyler Dunnigan. He's got a name. I don't know if it's Irish or Scottish.

0:40 I don't know where this comes from, but Tyler Dunnigan, he might've been like some, it seems like that's a star's name from one of these new shows that have multiple episodes. So Tyler Dunnigan, founder of Turnserv and Dunnigan Collective. Tyler's an operator turned founder. Who's focused on building systems that make businesses easier to run and scale. It seems like a general statement, but we're going to get deeper into what that really means. But it's particularly in the short-term rental and hospitality space through to Turnserv. He's helping property owners bring order to one of the most overlooked operational challenges. And through Donegan collective, he works with founders to build businesses. So if you're a founder, listen up that don't rely entirely on them. I'm looking forward to a practical conversation today about system scale and building companies that actually work.

1:25 Tyler, no pressure. Welcome to the party. You're supposed to share with us how companies need to be built to actually work. Should be exciting, Mark. Appreciate you having me on here. And you know, as far as the Irish name, if you say Donegan fast enough, you'll also sound Irish. Just a little trick there for you. Donegan. There you are Irish. So have you gone across the pond and spent time there? I have not, no, I'm a homebody. know, I've gone to, let's see, the furthest I've traveled has been Puerto Rico, and that's about it. We don't need to know those stories. Let's stay focused on business today. That was trouble. so, Hey man, go back to Turnserv, introduce us to your company, but I don't need to know what you were doing when you were a five year old kid.

2:07 Too many people ask those questions, but what caused you to start this company because it's scaling in a tremendous way. So obviously you are solving a problem in the marketplace for short-term rentals for this multifamily space. So How did you come up with the idea? What is the thought, the problem and said, I need to start this company. Yeah. So, so high level, I transitioned out of single family real estate for a moment and I wanted the folks a little bit larger and that was multifamily. So I started managing multifamily and learning it, all those kinds of things. And it was at that time, I set up the systems well, we could delegate, we can measure, track, you name it. But the reoccurring issue I constantly had was I could not find vendors in the space.

2:48 I couldn't find suppliers to keep up with us. I could not find enough contractors that could be dependable, reliable, show up on time and in budget. It just didn't exist. I kept on hitting this wall when I was managing multifamily and for the for reference, I managed around a quarter billion dollars worth of real estate when I was in multifamily. And so you can imagine a portfolio that size trying to find you can find a good a few good smaller vendors, so to say, they might be able to do 10 % of your portfolio, you got 90 % to go. And so I kept on finding this issue. And I finally just kind of put my hands up and I said, you know what? flipping houses on the side. I'm going to take some of my crews that are flipping. I'm going to instill them over here and tell them that it's one paint color, one type of floor covering.

3:31 It's the same cabinets and countertops throughout. And let's see what we can do. And it worked very well. And my crews were going from all these variables in single family. I give them three new things to focus on multifamily. And they got it done in two days. And the other contractors, other vendors that we were dealing with, they would take you know, two weeks, three weeks and in real estate, you know, timing is everything. And so long story short, I built my company out of necessity to help my team out when I was managing properties and it ended up working so well. I had friends around the industry asking me to help them. And at some point I just said, Hey, you know what? This thing is very viable. It's in high demand. And I made the full plunge out of managing properties into running turns or, you know, full time.

4:13 We went from one location to five and you know, less and that was recently in the less less less in the past three years. shows the big problem. Is this what we're talking about in the foundation of the company? It's just about efficiency of turning over after a tenant leaves and one comes in. Is it also improving the property? Not because that, but it needs a rehab. Is it the whole piece or is it mainly focused on carpet flooring, paint touch-up to get a new tenant in? Yeah, so we focus on both in the unit and that's exactly what you said. You know, you have a five day window, 10 moves out, you do your services, 10 moves in. We do that like clockwork. We do that better than anybody else in the United States. I really mean that. But we also focus on out of the unit, the cat backs, the overall improvements when trying to drive NOI and things like that.

4:58 Common areas, the hallways, the projects that are three, four, $500,000. We also do those. How we try to be with our clients is we're there, but we're not in the way. And we walk through them. We try to be their, their geek squad to best buy. And we try to show up and whatever they need, they point at it. We see it, we deliver it, supply it, and it's seamless. That is our goal is convenience of life for the real estate operators that we partner with. That's our focus. And that's why we've scaled because we directly embed with our partners and make their life easy. So since you said you're the best at this, right? Not to structure this as a question, but really engage. Cause in all of our businesses, those of us that are founders and really passionate about it, we really believe we're the best. And we'll tell you why. If we're sitting over here at beer, we'll tell you why, but what makes you the best?

5:42 it the soft skills part about it's what it sounded like here because you're running an efficient business, but it sounds like you care about doing more. You understand the pain points. Like, am I wrong or what makes you the best? You're spot on. I measure that and I also acknowledge founder bias. So I'll just get that out of the way. But how I look at it is impact delivered. And when you look at somebody's quality of life, first of all, people in the space, real estate operators, managers, they're overwhelmed, overstressed, short staffed. There's a lot of people that are calling them 24 seven because they're where they live depends on it. And they're constantly just looking for solutions. So I measure it as how easy can we make somebody else's life? Here's a few little things that goes into this.

6:23 know, one, we directly speak the language. You you call those contractors, they want to show up, give you a custom bid. They'll get back to you in two weeks. There's so many variables. They'll show up two weeks out. There's a down payment. There's a month long process. We just go straight through it. so how they schedule with us is seamless through our website. They select everything that they need based off of their own CRM. The process takes probably 20 seconds. Dispatch, deployment, autonomous updates. you know, everything from, then post-service, how we invoice the reminders, everything else. We can do things in just one or two touch points where most other vendors, suppliers, contractors, it requires more than 10 touch points. So if we can give back somebody 80 % of their day and still achieve the results that are way above standard, that to me is winning.

7:10 And when I say that we're the best to do it in the U.S., I really mean it's because the impact that we make in a quality of life that we supply to our our customers and our partners at scale. We're one of those unique beasts where we are built for scale, but we also have better quality than 99 % of the other contractors in the space. And that's a rare rare combination and it does nothing but help the clients. That's why I personally think that we're the best to do it. How have you fomented these relationships with the subs so that you can actually deliver that? Because that's important, that relationship, right? Yeah, of course. So the subcontract arrangement, it's almost the same thing that you look for in the customer arrangement, right? You look at some of these needs. What are their pain points? Where do they struggle at?

7:50 For us, we look at the trades, the subs, whoever else it is. They need steady, dependable work. They want to feel heard. They want to feel like they're doing a good job and they want to be paid on time. And so they don't want to track down jobs. They don't want to harpoon invoices all day long. They don't want to turn into debt collectors, marketers and everything else. We take that out of their hands. All we, all we do is when we look at their operations and normally it's text messages, it's pen and paper. It's, know, Hey, like call me next week. Let me know where I'm going. We automate their lives for them. We give them a free app from us to use on their phone. They get their schedule in their hand. They could communicate with us without ever calling us or showing up. And we send them a detailed instructions. They all they had, they hit go on their phone.

8:31 takes them to the building. It walks them through how to access it. Shows them the work order, what they're doing, has a note section. They hit done and the invoice is generated. We give them a piece of every invoice that we generate so they know what their pay is going to be every single time they do a job with us. We pay them routinely every two weeks they get paid. So for them, you know, we take away all the pain and frustration that they don't want to do. They're probably really good at their craft. They're probably amazing hands on. They might not want to talk to people all day long. They might not want to be in sales all day long or try to collect money or talk analytics or, or administrated administration. You know, like they They want to focus on what they're good at. We enable that and encourage it. We take care of all of the back end stuff. And beyond that too, you know, as fast as we're scaling, if a subcontractor or trade wants to also grow their business, we have great relationships where they start with one or two people.

9:20 They're up to four or five or six. They want to scale to multiple markets with us. They can do that. So we're also helping them lay the foundation to expand their own business exponentially in the space. So this app, did you build the app? It's custom in-house. do use some out of the box third party apps. So I don't want to take all the credit, but the syndicate software, the dispatching, everything else, that's all internal. That's all on us. Imagine when did you build that? The software has been a slow development. It's really hit. So 2025 was when we first started using it full time. And the second half is when it's really came, you know, shown itself as being viable. As we scale markets, every time you scale, there's a new need and it kind of breaks a little bit.

10:00 But now it's at the point where we've done with enough. We know exactly what's going to happen, what we need. Now it's seamless. It's great. So talk about AI building this app. Exactly. know, I, what I'm very good at is prompting. And so I use multiple, I'll give some trade secrets, people that don't know you're probably already doing this. For me, I learned the goal is to use multiple systems, the best AI systems to work with one, one another. And so example, like I'll use lovable, I'll use anything I use open AI, those are my three stacks every single day. And I start my prompts on on open AI, and I give reference points I beta test it, then we give that over to lovable and we build out software that way or apps, you whatever else it might be.

10:41 So those, those staples right there, I, and it's kind of incredible. We could build the safest, most secure, most usable websites, seamless, looks beautiful, but also is effective and efficient. All those things. I could probably build it in less than 10 hours using these resources. And maybe at most $250 where before this, I was having custom things built for us and we were a little bit smaller. And I had tech people on retainer for one to $2,000 a month. And that was after the $30,000 bill. And I'm looking at this and like, guys, like where you sleep? Like who designed this? It looks awful. That was some of the experience that we ran into was normally you get somebody that's amazing on the front end and it's beautiful, but it doesn't work or vice versa.

11:22 It works, but it looks like it's like windows 95, you know, just outdated. So these apps today, the AI and everything else like that, it's wonderful how efficient it makes it and how how seamlessly it takes idea to reality without needing to talk to 20 different people where it diminishes the outcome. So it takes it from idea to reality, but you still have to be the person that's willing to take action and do the thing. So you, so you did that. What do you think turned Tyler into the human that was willing to take action on these solutions? It's not about the people who don't, but what turned you into that? I think it truly starts with two things.

12:05 just uncurable curiosity. Um, I see something that's going on. like, how does that possibly work? And I fixed it on it. I don't, some people might say it's a strength. think it's more of a nuisance for me, but it's led to some cool things. So I'm just deeply curious about things. And then on the other front, like, so I have a sports background, you know, like I, I love fast cars. I played football, played semi-pro, played all these kinds of things. I'm deeply competitive as well. And with that is just like a little smidge of, don't want to do it that way. Like somebody said, it has to be this way. I'll do it. I'll do it another way. So you take a deep sense of curiosity and a deep sense of just being willing to be relentless in a productive way and just competitive to where you want to make it better. think those things coming together kind of like naturally showed itself for me.

12:48 I got early validation as a kid through sports, just being relentless, working hard, showing up. being willing to follow a program and being disciplined. And I think that kind of laid the foundation. And then as I got older, you you get exposed to new concepts, new ideas, and that just kind of compounded. Then I saw my dad doing it as well. Like, you know, he was, he was a business owner and mixed those three things together. And you have somebody that's depending on the conversation in a good way, obsessed or awful work-life balance is flawed and obsessed with their business. So it depends on the day, but I'd love to say that I truly enjoy what I do. And I would do this for free. So I'm probably in the right seat. What do do with all the outside noise? Um, you know, it's, it's one of those things at first, there was a lot, like, for example, we got private equity funded last year and the news media that it was incredible.

13:37 Like, uh, you can imagine like partnering with a big name. Um, and I daily just having people reach out and whatnot. And, know, and there's also that there's that element of it, but there's also like the friendship groups that you kind of like that evolve and whatnot. So for me. I truly am trying to be as focused as I can be on what I'm doing every single day. and remembering why I'm doing these kinds of things. So it kind of just falls by the wayside. What I've learned is you're never going to appease everybody. And you know, if, if you are, you're probably not being true to yourself. So in that regard, I just stay hyper focused on what I'm doing and why, and I know what I'm doing it for the right reasons. And so I just keep my head down and go.

14:17 But then also, you know, outside noise could also be perceived as like the shiny object. and that's chasing something new and whatnot. And I'm so guilty of that. you know, I have a consultant that works with me, you know, coach and constantly some of the my best things. And I think this is true for anybody. Sometimes your best thing, depending on the situation is your worst thing. And for me, that is definitely true. You know, I, I'm an idea guy, but I'm also, I also execute and I probably have 25 things on the side burner at any given time. And just being able to focus is what I'm, what I've been really working on this year, going into next year. So a lot of noise, but just trying to channel it and just remember why, why I do what I do kind of keeps me, you know, on the straight and narrow.

14:58 All right, so go down this path of having this coach, this consultant. How did you know that you needed to get one? You know, one again, it kind of with my background and just knowing like I've always been pushed by coaches. Like they pushed me through plateaus and that started off as sports through, you know, college to semi-pro and you know, some days you love them, some days you hate them, but at the end of the day, if you're, if you're open minded enough, you know that, you know, you really cured some shortcomings, short-sightedness or biases. And then in business, you know, like, so every single week I can say this, this new statement and it's true, but you know, early on, I had never been a founder CEO of a million dollar company when I first started. And then I, you know, I could say I was never a founder CEO of a PE back company, you know, and who knows what next year will be.

15:44 And so my default, my go-to is, Hey, talk to somebody about my shortcomings. What did they see? What I don't like, what's a passenger showing me in this situation? And it was one those things to where like when I first started getting coaching, it was because I was feeling a little bit burnout. I wasn't sure like, you know, like, okay, I have so many ideas. spinning my wheels, I'm not getting anywhere here. And just kind of like at first it was kind of assessing where I'm at, why I'm doing things a certain way and just evaluating. And then that kind of just, brought me good personal results. And then I started working with, with coaches on the business fundamentals and you know, like you hear it all the time, but you know, the EOS and the L10 meetings and expansion right now today, I have two coaches and one is on the, the, leadership side for finding purposeful pathway and leadership, being authentic and avoiding noise.

16:34 And then the other one, I am so lucky that one of my investors just went through the process and all my investors came from big companies or have done some incredible things like billion dollar companies. in that regard, that's why I picked them, but I'm blessed. But then also one of our LPs recently sold one of his franchise companies. And it was one of the largest in the US and he works directly with me. I was talking to him before I got on this with you, you know, and just hearing his perspective, he's ran companies a hundred times larger than mine. And I always keep that in mind of like, man, this guy has seen these problems years before I even knew that they existed and just being open minded. and, know, just we're going through stuff right now, like management as we management transitions and whatnot. And my number one go to question for him is just, Hey, what am I not seeing here?

17:17 Or what am I doing that I need to stop? And he, he's very blunt with me in a good way. But to answer your question, it was just one of those things to where, you know, feeling friction and I can either explore my own and try to like figure it out and that's okay. I'll do that. Or I can go to a mentor or coach or somebody similar and say, Hey, like, what can I anticipate here and get there much quicker? That's, that's what led me to the coaching side. So when you, when you took on PE private equity, talk about the change in your daily life. Talk, talk about this, the good and the bad. Yeah. So, so I'll preface. So obviously I'm a creative founder, entrepreneur, willing to do whatever it takes. I, and I'm always employee one. I'll roll my sleeves up, get my hands dirty.

17:58 I will test things until they are broken or until I figured out one of the two. Well, you know, finance was probably number three or four on my list, you know, as, when I first started competent and it don't get me wrong, but like, you know, you're not going to like roll up your sleeves every day. Like, Hey, let's do the EBITDA calculation. Here we go. You just get after it, you go. And that was kind of me and it still isn't a lot of regard. But I think the biggest thing that switched was, you know, the second you have a partner that like that, or you have LPs, you need to think about their goals and needs as well. And just this sheer focus on financial KPIs and metrics and things like that. the, the priority is, know, like you and I could probably talk cool startup ideas or company expansion ideas or whatnot all day long.

18:39 And we know the pain that goes with it, but we know the upside. And then switching that over and speaking different languages to somebody that's passionate and understands that, but they want to talk about what kind of TAM is in front of them or what kind of earnings or contributory margin is an ideal worth and things like that. And just kind of reframing that whole concept has been the biggest shift from how I operate today. And then, you know, beyond that too, so I've, you know, giving reports on a routine basis, like, you know, weekly, hey, like Wednesdays, Fridays, here's what you send, month ends, quarter ends, you name it. Getting more routine and predictable with that because again, when you, for me, for example, you start your own business, it's for you. You don't want to fall into a norm. You don't want to fall into like somebody telling me what to do.

19:22 Then all of a sudden you take on some PE stuff and all the other collaborative and whatnot. You have certain things that you have to do on a weekly, monthly, quarterly basis, annual basis that you probably don't want to do. It's not a bad thing, but it just takes time to analytics. It's boring for lack of better words and just really shifting from. Hey, I'm in the driver's seat full time to, I'm in the driver's seat, but then sometimes I'm outside the car. Sometimes I'm a passenger. Sometimes I'm working on the car, you know, making that transition from like all star player to sometimes coach to sometimes owner has been one of the biggest changes for me in this whole experience with PE. And just speaking that new language, you know, and just letting them influence me in a lot of ways and seeing myself kind of like speak their language now.

20:03 It's probably the most impactful thing that I got out of this outside of like operational tells and help and whatnot. going into it, why did you take private equity? Was it to do some cash out or was it to truly scale and grow? So I've never taken any cash out of my companies, you know, and for me, it was a timing thing. I wanted the scale and my, my thought was, all right, like I can go get a lot of blank checks and you'll hear the argument of like, never give up equity, you know, never take on debt depends on who you talk to and depends on the situation. Both are right. Both are wrong. Right. But for me personally, you know, I was surrounded by people that were doing amazing things. And I just told myself, I'm like, well, listen, like what's my goal here.

20:44 Is my identity, my business, am I telling myself that? And that kind of led to a whole new chain of thoughts. But for me with PE, the goal was to one, do life with somebody that has done way larger things and way more impactful things that I have ever done, because that's a new reality. And I was just curious about it and just fascinated with how somebody could have a 300 office location service company. But then also realistically, I was okay with breaking bread in exchange for that knowledge, also because that resulted in speed. I can go to market. I can expand much quicker. I can tap into new things. I could partner with people that are way better at certain things than I am. So for me, it was a tool for me.

21:25 It was an add-on. It was a big choice, don't get me wrong, but at the same time I knew, you know, I don't like steady. I like new, I like exciting things, I challenges. I have to stay busy. If something's going smooth, going to, I'll find a way to break it somehow, some way. So for me, know, private equity was that expansion. And it was the next, next adventure for me. That's why I did it just to really tap the. Did the outcome and what you're getting from it, did it equal going in? Because I don't know, are you a guy that when you make a plan, the plan goes exactly to plan? Cause I'm not. No, same. I, so I try to be as detailed as possible, but I, I, now I, I don't really strive for that. Now I put in like milestones and guardrails and I say, Hey, like, I won't go down.

22:06 If this happens, I won't go this far or Hey, like I'm going to stay in these lines right here. But you know, the, verbiage of the directions inside those lines, I have no idea. They'll change tomorrow, but I'm, I'm, I just try to hit milestones. So kind of the same, same as you mark, like, you know, like I, I could set a really good plan and I follow my calendar as much as possible and whatnot. But listen, like, if something pops up or there's a new opportunity or we have to pivot fast, I'm the first guy that's like, give me the wheel, let's go. Yeah. So as a private equity piece, when did you take that on? 2024. So summer of 24, about a year and a half ago at this point, give or take. And it's been a whirlwind since then, in a good way. And so I think, you know, to help other entrepreneurs out here, you know, not just grow our businesses and our brands from this conversation.

22:50 would you do it again? know you got these guys that you're in business with now, but would you do it again the same way? Are there some things that you could learn if you had the mic and you had the most brilliant future entrepreneurs in the room? What's the advice you would give them about PE? I think with P. So to answer your first question, I would do it again, but I would do it a little bit different. Here's what I mean by that. And I don't mean from a sense of like, own all the equity or I own debt or whatever it might be. I mean, just showing up and getting out or getting out of it. Let me try again and getting what I want out of it. For example, when I when I got in with them, like I viewed it as, there's a big whiteboard in front of us. Think of all these new opportunities. We can try this, this, this, this, this, this, Well, As I kind of like come together, what I realize is they might focus on one or two, new things versus my scatter shot 20 ideas.

23:39 Let's see which one works. So I probably would have honed it in a little bit more from the start with them. But my goal was to expand their capital and try to do some things. So in one regard that that's been fast and fun and others, I realized that, you know, what, what normal like PE or family office might require is a little bit more targeted. focus, so to say, I would have dialed in my sights a little bit sooner if I can go back in time. Doesn't mean I wouldn't do it again or anything like that all, I would do it 10 times over, but I would probably approach it with a different mentality and just never being PE back before. You have assumptions, don't get me wrong, but then you learn on the fly. And I think for others too, that question has to be one, like your self-reflection ability, self-awareness, your tolerance for pain, skin.

24:27 If you don't have it, you're either going to fizzle out or you're going to develop very quickly. And I don't mean it from a sense of like, hey, these guys are mean or whatever it is. They're not, they're wonderful humans. They really are. But they're so focused on outcomes. Sometimes I think as founders, entrepreneurs, every now and then we find a way to almost lie to ourselves like, I'm working on this new idea. This other one's not as good. And sometimes you're just avoiding the work. Sometimes you're avoiding having to be wrong or being vulnerable about those things. you know, somebody like a PE partner, like there's no other outcome except, hey, let's see what we produced and why. Well, you're going to spend a lot of time on the why and the outcome. And if you can't be upfront with yourself or transparent or vulnerable about some of your weaknesses or wrong decisions, it's going to be an uphill battle for you.

25:08 you know, I think for others, that's a decision on one, if it's a value add partner, if it's not just a blank check, if that's what you want, like if it's a value add partner that can take you somewhere, you know, I would lean into it, but no I would understand what they need first. That would be my encouragement is like, transcend spots with them. Why are they doing this? What's the best case outcome for them? They don't care how clever you are. I'm sure it's part of it, but what are their needs? And if you can appease those things, you're going to win. If it's all selfish and it's like, well, I just, want the, want the media and that's it. You're going to, it's going to be very bad all the way around. So, there's, there's peace around kind of keeping things small and owning it a hundred percent whatnot on one side. Cause I've done that my whole life. You know, I've been a part of that.

25:48 But also there's this thrill and curiosity and like what if scenarios on the other that's fast and fun, but high stakes as well. So it really comes down to preference. What's your approach to, if you're scaling a business, usually the business is all about the people, the people you have relationships with and the people that you agree to partner with you inside the business and help build their careers and help impact their lives. What's your approach to talent with a growing company? Yeah. So one, you to incentivize their interest with yours. If you view it as top down, you know, hey, I'm the CEO. No one else can come to my office. This is it. Like I'm paying you a low wage. That's it. That, that era is probably behind us at this point. Like I'm sure there's some companies that can get away with that because they might offer the best healthcare in the world or something like that.

26:32 I've never had the privilege of being able to pay somebody 10 times overmarket or offer them like the best healthcare or what have you. I've always been a guy that's had to incentivize with phantom stock or stock options or similar. And so I think the first thing to do with somebody on one end is making sure that your interests align with theirs. When you talk about exiting one day, why would they care if they're not incentivized by it? So really just understanding like, okay, so all my managers have phantom equity in my companies, right? And we run transparent books, we open door, you name it. Speak to phantom equity if people don't know what that is. Oh, sure. So, so in public companies, might hear like stock options and that's where like you're, you're, you're an executive there or high level manager there.

27:14 They'll give you some, some stock options. That way you have some of the upside of the company. So you buy a stock at a hundred bucks and it's worth 300, but you still have your option to buy the a hundred. That way you create some upside with the company with, but with Phantom equity and private companies, what I've learned is having Phantom is way easier for everybody because with options. You have to pay taxes on a lot of those. And there's a lot of loopholes here. So I'd probably have some, some accounting guys saying, well, you didn't think about this or this, and you're probably right. But for us, Phantom equity was a way for our, our team members to be incentivized and participate in some of the upside. If we were to sell the company without having to fork over any money or pay tax on any options, it was really win-win.

27:55 It was no extra work for us. And it was no extra payment requirements for them. And so that way. If we end up selling the company to larger PE or a retail, whatever it might be, anybody that's participating in the Phantom plan also will get a paycheck with that. It's almost like an entitlement to a payout or entitlement to commission upon a sale or something similar like that without any of the big covenants or restrictions that come with formal stock plans and whatnot. Yeah. Um, all right. So you're a guy that seems like he has some resilience. A lot of people that grow up in a competitive Nate environment playing sports. You have to, because man, I heard Roger Federer say, I think it was a graduation.

28:36 might've been a commencement. don't know what it was, but he said that he's lost 47 % of the points that he ever played. And so he's one of the best of all time. And he became the best of all time at only winning 53%. But he said, When he lost those 47 % of those points every time, he forgot about it. And the only thing that mattered was the next point. what do you do with failure? What's been the approach here? Yeah, you know, us, I try to reframe it for me personally, you know, sometimes to find where the line is, you have to want to go over it and you don't realize where it is until you do. And I try to have that same mentality as much as possible without looking for the edge all the time or going over it.

29:22 You know, I look at it as, there's a, there's a limit here. Anytime that something doesn't go as planned, something is either wrong and execution or assumption. One of the two. Yeah. That's the only thing that could possibly be it. And so for me, I look at things, all right, if I failed somewhere, I had a flaw. Was I wrong in my, my thought process? Did I overestimate my ability? Did I, know, whatever it might've been, like there has to be some variable that I assumed that that would or wouldn't happen and the opposite occurred. So there's that. So then I look at that as a learning opportunity for me, self-awareness, right? And like, cool. Like I probably wasn't the right guy to make a decision on this. I should have stuck to these things, whatever it might be.

30:02 So. Every single step that we take and for us, you know, I've launched multiple brands, multiple products, software, you name it. I can probably count the big wins on one hand, and I could probably count the amount of times I've fundamentally just derailed something or messed it up. We'd be counting all day together if we went through one by one by one. And so for me now it's just part of the process. Obviously it gets a little bit better. I've learned what not to do in some situations, wait, not to assume about my, my, my own ability in some regard or what have you. And you, but you only learn that by going over the edge a few times and be wrong time and time again. Yeah, stacking lessons, man. That's how we win. That's it. Yeah. And so, so the resilience piece is how quick you're to move on.

30:45 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And in weird way, like, eventually you just get used to that concept, not because you want to be used to losing and that's your bar, that's your standard, that's not it. But at some point, you know, losing in some regard, it feels scary at first or no one wants to lose. No one wants to do any of that. But at some point, you kind of just get this mentality of you realize that when you're wading in deeper water than you ever had before, you're going to fall in, you know, over your head a couple of times. Like you're going to be wrong sometimes. That means that you're on the path. That means that you're pushing the envelope. That means you're pushing the boundary. And you kind of use that as fuel. And that's exactly how I've approached it. If you ask anybody on my team, if you ask them what I'm good at, they'll probably tell you first what I'm not good at. They'll probably go, on, don't have them do this.

31:27 Don't have them do this. Don't let them do, like, they'll sit down with you for probably an hour first. And then two minutes of what I'm actually good at will come out after that. So failures is definitely part of this. like you said, Being able to keep on walking step by step by step in a weird way for me, like I said earlier, I have never been a part of like a company growing this fast. I've never been CEO of a P back company, but you just show up every day and step by step by step and you get used to the lessons. You get used to the pain in some regard. You, you know, you just keep on walking in the direction eventually you get there. And then that just comes down to being resilient. If you understand your why and your, impact you're trying to chase enough, you'll keep going. Like if, if, you do it for your own reasons, you'll keep going. Yeah. So beforehand, we talked for a few minutes before the podcast started and I said, man, who's your ideal customer and what success looks like look like.

32:12 And you said, if we can touch a million doors or properties, right. Speak to that. I mean, it's a big goal. It is, it is a big goal because if we could touch a million doors, either through supply or services or something in between there, doesn't matter. That means that we're able to spread our impact way beyond ourselves. And I think one of the most fascinating and fun things that I've experienced on this journey so far in one regard, it's absolutely terrifying and other it and another, it's just absolutely incredible. This thing is way larger than myself at this point. Like I could not do this on my own, no, with any stretch of imagination. And so when I, when I look at that, I think of the concept of like all these markets were in all these team members, how many jobs are you doing today?

32:57 Um, and I remember starting off and I was technician number one, right? And so I could do one job a day and that was it. And then I said, all right, well, if I wanted to do 10, I'd have to hire 10 people. And that seems so far off. Then you get there, then you get to 20, 30, 40. So to go back to the million doors, that's kind of a representation of just like one, it's, it's obviously company growth, but really it's, development, personal growth, but also developing others and testing your systems, testing the market, making sure the market loves you enough to adopt you that scale and just refining it. So for me, it's all about leaving a big footprint, making a large impact for the customers. And by us touching a million doors somehow, some way that is so much larger than I ever imagined.

33:38 And so far beyond myself, like that's to me, that's in one regard, it might sound selfish for me to say, want to touch a million doors, but I think it's the most selfless approach that I could have in trying to to be able to spread that far and do that much at scale because it requires so much to go well with so many people, the right team, the right mission, the right need and customers to adopt us at scale. For me, that's just a giant, giant thing of unison that's necessary. And so that's, that's, that's a fun part for me. It's not the, the, the, the pain points that come with it. Like I don't want to manage 10 million people, right? I don't want to have to do certain things, but that's part of the journey. What's inside of you that dared you and allowed you to set ever growing bigger goals?

34:22 Yeah. Well, so I think that it's a combination of, again, we talk about being competitive. We talk about being curious. And I think that really laid a fundamental path for me. Also, there's this element of just, probably not a lot of people talk about this this much. There's an element of just ultimate fear and just terror and like, you know, being scared of kind of going down a certain path or what have you. And, and, and I think for me, just trying to face a certain fear and showing up and still doing also motivates me. And so I think all of those things said, I have a desire to make a large impact. have a desire to be the best at something. have the desire to show up better than I did yesterday, right?

35:03 And that's kind of that sports background. I'm deeply curious about the world. The world has changed so much in the past, you know, 20 years, even the past two years. So that natural curiosity is always in me as well. If somebody is doing something some way, I'm like, man, like there's gotta be a better way. So all those things are in me. And then there's also this probably like, you know, this 5 % little like rebelliousness in me as well. That kind of like makes me question things sometimes, um, like any good founder of might have, and you know, somebody tells you to do something a certain way and like, ah, now thanks for the advice, but now I can try this way. um, yeah, although combination of those things. Didn't you have to find a way to play well with others, That's it. That's it. Yeah. And I've gotten better at that.

35:43 I've gotten way better. How does the anarchist do that? I think that it comes down to a realization of it's no longer a solo mission. and you know, I think that it's probably something as well, like the second that, that you win with somebody that you're giving a solution for, you feel, you feel good. But the second that you can help somebody give somebody else a solution, you feel great. And so for me, it was just one of those things to where I realized I could go much further if I was in a group versus just like kind of me, you know, in, and it's okay. Now I talk about being a little bit rebellious because I, I bucket that depending on who I'm talking to. I'll call it, I'm innovative. You know what I mean? And, that's my way of kind of just really just saying no to how things are currently.

36:25 But at some point you just realize that it's, it's way easier to go in unison with a big group of people when it's just beyond yourself. And it's okay to have that, that little bit of like, you know, I am a solo kind of person and in many regard, I am like, I love talking to people. love hanging out people. But at end of the day, like one of my favorite things in this world, and it's not cause I'm anti-social, it's cause I'm always talking to people, always involved and whatnot. I love isolation probably more than the average person does. And so that, that little bit of like anarchy or whatever you want to call it, like it just all just stems from like a, a centralization around making sure that I'm being true to myself, you know what I mean? And, but also collaborating with others to reach a certain goal or what have you.

37:07 I don't know, it's kind of a combination and depending on the day, it's somewhere in the middle there. Yeah. All right. So all these entrepreneurs out here, I'm sure you're going to hit a couple of multifamily folks and they're going to say, what's this turnstirve and what's this turnstirve guy? but you have done again, collective.com as well. But, what's, is there a piece of advice? You know, we're all asked for advice now, but is there a piece of advice not to give to other people, what would you go? What's the advice that Tyler needed in the beginning that, know, if he would have been given that, like it would have, you would have shortened the worrying curve. You know, I think the advice, if I can go back and tell myself anything, one, it would be to listen to others a little bit, you know, you know, like not, not be afraid to take actually advice.

37:49 But also I, you know, when I, when I was younger, when I, when I first started, I was frozen by the fear of the unknown. Like I was frozen of like, Oh, I've never done this. You know, like, Oh, I don't know if I could do this. You know, and eventually like you start doing things, you fight through imposter syndrome. Next thing know, people are asking you how you do it. And I'm like, wow, like this is quite the difference here. So if I can go back and give myself any sort of encouragement or advice or what have you, it would probably be keep going as funny as that might sound. Because when you, when you first think about starting, you kind of lie to yourself like, the more I write on a whiteboard and think about it, that's, that's being productive. Probably not. You know, and you, I think there's a lot of ideas that, that people talk themselves out of doing.

38:32 And there's a lot of useful things that probably don't ever take off just because people think that they're not adequate or they're not qualified. you know, there's, there's way less qualified people, doing far greater and impactful things than a lot of people today. And I think just people just assume things have to be perfect to start and they never will be. So, but to answer your question, I would just, it would be just start and keep going would be the first ones. and then also. Be open-minded. you know, be curious about who you're taking advice from, you know, don't take everything verbatim, but be open-minded. Like be, it's okay to reach out to people and they'll surprisingly, they'll give you a lot of their time. And that's actually how I got started was just a cold emailing, a bunch of people that became mentors of mine. So all those things, is probably what I'd go back and tell myself.

39:15 Awesome, man. Hey, thank you for the time today. Turn serve.com Tyler done again, done again, collective doing big things in Cleveland, Ohio, around the country. And I'm sure with a million doors around the world at some point. All right. All right. Thanks for joining, man.