#168 - Why Execution Beats Hype in Business — Tyler Dunagin on Scaling Turnserv

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There's an element of just ultimate fear and just terror and like, you know, being scared
of kind of going down a certain path or what have you.

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think for me, just trying to face a certain fear and showing up and still doing also
motivates me.

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All right, you all welcome back to our awesome guest to another episode.

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We're keeping this one all in Ohio and Kentucky.

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Today's guest is a guy named Tyler Dunnigan.

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He's got a name.

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I don't know if it's Irish or Scottish.

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I don't know where this comes from, but Tyler Dunnigan, he might've been like some, it
seems like that's a star's name from one of these new shows that have multiple episodes.

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So Tyler Dunnigan, founder of Turnserv and Dunnigan Collective.

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Tyler's an operator turned founder.

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Who's focused on building systems that make businesses easier to run and scale.

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It seems like a general statement, but we're going to get deeper into what that really
means.

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But it's particularly in the short-term rental and hospitality space through to Turnserv.

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He's helping property owners bring order to one of the most overlooked operational
challenges.

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And through Donegan collective, he works with founders to build businesses.

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So if you're a founder, listen up that don't rely entirely on them.

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I'm looking forward to a practical conversation today about system scale and building
companies that actually work.

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Tyler, no pressure.

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Welcome to the party.

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You're supposed to share with us how companies need to be built to actually work.

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Should be exciting, Mark.

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Appreciate you having me on here.

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And you know, as far as the Irish name, if you say Donegan fast enough, you'll also sound
Irish.

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Just a little trick there for you.

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Donegan.

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There you are Irish.

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So have you gone across the pond and spent time there?

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I have not, no, I'm a homebody.

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know, I've gone to, let's see, the furthest I've traveled has been Puerto Rico, and that's
about it.

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We don't need to know those stories.

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Let's stay focused on business today.

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That was trouble.

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so, Hey man, go back to Turnserv, introduce us to your company, but I don't need to know
what you were doing when you were a five year old kid.

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Too many people ask those questions, but what caused you to start this company because
it's scaling in a tremendous way.

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So obviously you are solving a problem in the marketplace for short-term rentals for this
multifamily space.

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So

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How did you come up with the idea?

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What is the thought, the problem and said, I need to start this company.

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Yeah.

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So, so high level, I transitioned out of single family real estate for a moment and I
wanted the folks a little bit larger and that was multifamily.

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So I started managing multifamily and learning it, all those kinds of things.

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And it was at that time, I set up the systems well, we could delegate, we can measure,
track, you name it.

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But the reoccurring issue I constantly had was I could not find vendors in the space.

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I couldn't find suppliers to keep up with us.

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I could not find enough contractors that could be dependable, reliable, show up on time
and in budget.

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It just didn't exist.

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I kept on hitting this wall when I was managing multifamily and for the for reference, I
managed around a quarter billion dollars worth of real estate when I was in multifamily.

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And so you can imagine a portfolio that size trying to find you can find a good a few good
smaller vendors, so to say, they might be able to do 10 % of your portfolio, you got 90 %

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to go.

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And so I kept on finding this issue.

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And I finally just kind of put my hands up and I said, you know what?

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flipping houses on the side.

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I'm going to take some of my crews that are flipping.

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I'm going to instill them over here and tell them that it's one paint color, one type of
floor covering.

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It's the same cabinets and countertops throughout.

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And let's see what we can do.

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And it worked very well.

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And my crews were going from all these variables in single family.

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I give them three new things to focus on multifamily.

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And they got it done in two days.

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And the other contractors, other vendors that we were dealing with, they would take

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you know, two weeks, three weeks and in real estate, you know, timing is everything.

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And so long story short, I built my company out of necessity to help my team out when I
was managing properties and it ended up working so well.

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I had friends around the industry asking me to help them.

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And at some point I just said, Hey, you know what?

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This thing is very viable.

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It's in high demand.

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And I made the full plunge out of managing properties into running turns or, you know,
full time.

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We went from one location to five and you know,

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less and that was recently in the less less less in the past three years.

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shows the big problem.

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Is this what we're talking about in the foundation of the company?

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It's just about efficiency of turning over after a tenant leaves and one comes in.

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Is it also improving the property?

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Not because that, but it needs a rehab.

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Is it the whole piece or is it mainly focused on carpet flooring, paint touch-up to get a
new tenant in?

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Yeah, so we focus on both in the unit and that's exactly what you said.

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You know, you have a five day window, 10 moves out, you do your services, 10 moves in.

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We do that like clockwork.

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We do that better than anybody else in the United States.

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I really mean that.

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But we also focus on out of the unit, the cat backs, the overall improvements when trying
to drive NOI and things like that.

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Common areas, the hallways, the projects that are three, four, $500,000.

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We also do those.

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How we try to be with our clients is we're there, but we're not in the way.

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And we walk through them.

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We try to be their, their geek squad to best buy.

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And we try to show up and whatever they need, they point at it.

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We see it, we deliver it, supply it, and it's seamless.

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That is our goal is convenience of life for the real estate operators that we partner
with.

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That's our focus.

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And that's why we've scaled because we directly embed with our partners and make their
life easy.

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So since you said you're the best at this, right?

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Not to structure this as a question, but really engage.

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Cause in all of our businesses, those of us that are founders and really passionate about
it, we really believe we're the best.

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And we'll tell you why.

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If we're sitting over here at beer, we'll tell you why, but what makes you the best?

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it the soft skills part about it's what it sounded like here because you're running an
efficient business, but it sounds like you care about doing more.

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You understand the pain points.

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Like, am I wrong or what makes you the best?

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You're spot on.

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I measure that and I also acknowledge founder bias.

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So I'll just get that out of the way.

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But how I look at it is impact delivered.

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And when you look at somebody's quality of life, first of all, people in the space, real
estate operators, managers, they're overwhelmed, overstressed, short staffed.

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There's a lot of people that are calling them 24 seven because they're where they live
depends on it.

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And they're constantly just looking for solutions.

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So I measure it as how easy can we make somebody else's life?

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Here's a few little things that goes into this.

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know, one, we directly speak the language.

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You you call those contractors, they want to show up, give you a custom bid.

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They'll get back to you in two weeks.

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There's so many variables.

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They'll show up two weeks out.

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There's a down payment.

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There's a month long process.

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We just go straight through it.

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so how they schedule with us is seamless through our website.

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They select everything that they need based off of their own CRM.

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The process takes probably 20 seconds.

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Dispatch, deployment, autonomous updates.

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you know, everything from, then post-service, how we invoice the reminders, everything
else.

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We can do things in just one or two touch points where most other vendors, suppliers,
contractors, it requires more than 10 touch points.

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So if we can give back somebody 80 % of their day and still achieve the results that are
way above standard, that to me is winning.

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And when I say that we're the best to do it in the U.S., I really mean it's because the
impact that we make in a quality of life that we supply to our

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our customers and our partners at scale.

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We're one of those unique beasts where we are built for scale, but we also have better
quality than 99 % of the other contractors in the space.

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And that's a rare rare combination and it does nothing but help the clients.

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That's why I personally think that we're the best to do it.

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How have you fomented these relationships with the subs so that you can actually deliver
that?

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Because that's important, that relationship, right?

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Yeah, of course.

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So the subcontract arrangement, it's almost the same thing that you look for in the
customer arrangement, right?

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You look at some of these needs.

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What are their pain points?

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Where do they struggle at?

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For us, we look at the trades, the subs, whoever else it is.

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They need steady, dependable work.

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They want to feel heard.

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They want to feel like they're doing a good job and they want to be paid on time.

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And so they don't want to track down jobs.

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They don't want to harpoon invoices all day long.

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They don't want to turn into debt collectors, marketers and everything else.

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We take that out of their hands.

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All we, all we do is when we look at their operations and normally it's text messages,
it's pen and paper.

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It's, know, Hey, like call me next week.

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Let me know where I'm going.

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We automate their lives for them.

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We give them a free app from us to use on their phone.

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They get their schedule in their hand.

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They could communicate with us without ever calling us or showing up.

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And we send them a detailed instructions.

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They all they had, they hit go on their phone.

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takes them to the building.

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It walks them through how to access it.

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Shows them the work order, what they're doing, has a note section.

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They hit done and the invoice is generated.

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We give them a piece of every invoice that we generate so they know what their pay is
going to be every single time they do a job with us.

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We pay them routinely every two weeks they get paid.

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So for them, you know, we take away all the pain and frustration that they don't want to
do.

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They're probably really good at their craft.

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They're probably amazing hands on.

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They might not want to talk to people all day long.

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They might not want to be in sales all day long or try to collect money or talk analytics
or, or administrated administration.

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You know, like they

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They want to focus on what they're good at.

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We enable that and encourage it.

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We take care of all of the back end stuff.

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And beyond that too, you know, as fast as we're scaling, if a subcontractor or trade wants
to also grow their business, we have great relationships where they start with one or two

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people.

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They're up to four or five or six.

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They want to scale to multiple markets with us.

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They can do that.

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So we're also helping them lay the foundation to expand their own business exponentially
in the space.

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So this app, did you build the app?

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It's custom in-house.

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do use some out of the box third party apps.

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So I don't want to take all the credit, but the syndicate software, the dispatching,
everything else, that's all internal.

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That's all on us.

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Imagine when did you build that?

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The software has been a slow development.

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It's really hit.

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So 2025 was when we first started using it full time.

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And the second half is when it's really came, you know, shown itself as being viable.

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As we scale markets, every time you scale, there's a new need and it kind of breaks a
little bit.

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But now it's at the point where we've done with enough.

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We know exactly what's going to happen, what we need.

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Now it's seamless.

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It's great.

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So talk about AI building this app.

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Exactly.

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know, I, what I'm very good at is prompting.

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And so I use multiple, I'll give some trade secrets, people that don't know you're
probably already doing this.

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For me, I learned the goal is to use multiple systems, the best AI systems to work with
one, one another.

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And so example, like I'll use lovable, I'll use anything I use open AI, those are my three
stacks every single day.

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And I start my prompts on on open AI, and I give reference points I

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beta test it, then we give that over to lovable and we build out software that way or
apps, you whatever else it might be.

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So those, those staples right there, I, and it's kind of incredible.

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We could build the safest, most secure, most usable websites, seamless, looks beautiful,
but also is effective and efficient.

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All those things.

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I could probably build it in less than 10 hours using these resources.

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And maybe at most $250 where before this, I was having custom things built for us and we
were a little bit smaller.

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And I had tech people on retainer for one to $2,000 a month.

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And that was after the $30,000 bill.

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And I'm looking at this and like, guys, like where you sleep?

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Like who designed this?

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It looks awful.

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That was some of the experience that we ran into was normally you get somebody that's
amazing on the front end and it's beautiful, but it doesn't work or vice versa.

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It works, but it looks like it's like windows 95, you know, just outdated.

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So these apps today, the AI and everything else like that, it's wonderful how efficient it
makes it and how

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how seamlessly it takes idea to reality without needing to talk to 20 different people
where it diminishes the outcome.

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So it takes it from idea to reality, but you still have to be the person that's willing to
take action and do the thing.

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So you, so you did that.

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What do you think turned Tyler into the human that was willing to take action on these
solutions?

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It's not about the people who don't, but what turned you into that?

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I think it truly starts with two things.

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just uncurable curiosity.

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Um, I see something that's going on.

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like, how does that possibly work?

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00:12:10,351 --> 00:12:11,411
And I fixed it on it.

221
00:12:11,411 --> 00:12:13,511
I don't, some people might say it's a strength.

222
00:12:13,511 --> 00:12:16,991
think it's more of a nuisance for me, but it's led to some cool things.

223
00:12:16,991 --> 00:12:19,131
So I'm just deeply curious about things.

224
00:12:19,131 --> 00:12:24,051
And then on the other front, like, so I have a sports background, you know, like I, I love
fast cars.

225
00:12:24,051 --> 00:12:27,171
I played football, played semi-pro, played all these kinds of things.

226
00:12:27,171 --> 00:12:28,777
I'm deeply competitive as well.

227
00:12:28,777 --> 00:12:32,282
And with that is just like a little smidge of, don't want to do it that way.

228
00:12:32,282 --> 00:12:33,413
Like somebody said, it has to be this way.

229
00:12:33,413 --> 00:12:33,990
I'll do it.

230
00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:35,154
I'll do it another way.

231
00:12:35,154 --> 00:12:44,721
So you take a deep sense of curiosity and a deep sense of just being willing to be
relentless in a productive way and just competitive to where you want to make it better.

232
00:12:44,721 --> 00:12:48,873
think those things coming together kind of like naturally showed itself for me.

233
00:12:48,873 --> 00:12:53,569
I got early validation as a kid through sports, just being relentless, working hard,
showing up.

234
00:12:53,569 --> 00:12:55,869
being willing to follow a program and being disciplined.

235
00:12:55,869 --> 00:12:58,129
And I think that kind of laid the foundation.

236
00:12:58,129 --> 00:13:03,429
And then as I got older, you you get exposed to new concepts, new ideas, and that just
kind of compounded.

237
00:13:03,429 --> 00:13:04,889
Then I saw my dad doing it as well.

238
00:13:04,889 --> 00:13:09,309
Like, you know, he was, he was a business owner and mixed those three things together.

239
00:13:09,309 --> 00:13:17,109
And you have somebody that's depending on the conversation in a good way, obsessed or
awful work-life balance is flawed and obsessed with their business.

240
00:13:17,109 --> 00:13:21,359
So it depends on the day, but I'd love to say that I truly enjoy what I do.

241
00:13:21,359 --> 00:13:22,858
And I would do this for free.

242
00:13:22,858 --> 00:13:24,517
So I'm probably in the right seat.

243
00:13:24,959 --> 00:13:26,984
What do do with all the outside noise?

244
00:13:27,489 --> 00:13:37,349
Um, you know, it's, it's one of those things at first, there was a lot, like, for example,
we got private equity funded last year and the news media that it was incredible.

245
00:13:37,349 --> 00:13:41,409
Like, uh, you can imagine like partnering with a big name.

246
00:13:41,409 --> 00:13:45,869
Um, and I daily just having people reach out and whatnot.

247
00:13:45,869 --> 00:13:53,629
And, know, and there's also that there's that element of it, but there's also like the
friendship groups that you kind of like that evolve and whatnot.

248
00:13:53,629 --> 00:13:54,961
So for me.

249
00:13:54,961 --> 00:13:59,062
I truly am trying to be as focused as I can be on what I'm doing every single day.

250
00:13:59,062 --> 00:14:01,604
and remembering why I'm doing these kinds of things.

251
00:14:01,604 --> 00:14:03,535
So it kind of just falls by the wayside.

252
00:14:03,535 --> 00:14:06,088
What I've learned is you're never going to appease everybody.

253
00:14:06,088 --> 00:14:10,832
And you know, if, if you are, you're probably not being true to yourself.

254
00:14:10,832 --> 00:14:15,826
So in that regard, I just stay hyper focused on what I'm doing and why, and I know what
I'm doing it for the right reasons.

255
00:14:15,826 --> 00:14:17,577
And so I just keep my head down and go.

256
00:14:17,577 --> 00:14:21,770
But then also, you know, outside noise could also be perceived as like the shiny object.

257
00:14:21,770 --> 00:14:23,938
and that's chasing something new and whatnot.

258
00:14:23,938 --> 00:14:25,159
And I'm so guilty of that.

259
00:14:25,159 --> 00:14:31,750
you know, I have a consultant that works with me, you know, coach and constantly some of
the my best things.

260
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:33,221
And I think this is true for anybody.

261
00:14:33,221 --> 00:14:36,382
Sometimes your best thing, depending on the situation is your worst thing.

262
00:14:36,382 --> 00:14:38,438
And for me, that is definitely true.

263
00:14:38,438 --> 00:14:46,175
You know, I, I'm an idea guy, but I'm also, I also execute and I probably have 25 things
on the side burner at any given time.

264
00:14:46,175 --> 00:14:51,629
And just being able to focus is what I'm, what I've been really working on this year,
going into next year.

265
00:14:51,629 --> 00:14:58,591
So a lot of noise, but just trying to channel it and just remember why, why I do what I do
kind of keeps me, you know, on the straight and narrow.

266
00:14:58,905 --> 00:15:03,119
All right, so go down this path of having this coach, this consultant.

267
00:15:03,581 --> 00:15:05,973
How did you know that you needed to get one?

268
00:15:06,585 --> 00:15:11,198
You know, one again, it kind of with my background and just knowing like I've always been
pushed by coaches.

269
00:15:11,198 --> 00:15:19,182
Like they pushed me through plateaus and that started off as sports through, you know,
college to semi-pro and you know, some days you love them, some days you hate them, but at

270
00:15:19,182 --> 00:15:26,465
the end of the day, if you're, if you're open minded enough, you know that, you know, you
really cured some shortcomings, short-sightedness or biases.

271
00:15:26,465 --> 00:15:33,738
And then in business, you know, like, so every single week I can say this, this new
statement and it's true, but you know,

272
00:15:33,738 --> 00:15:38,542
early on, I had never been a founder CEO of a million dollar company when I first started.

273
00:15:38,542 --> 00:15:44,377
And then I, you know, I could say I was never a founder CEO of a PE back company, you
know, and who knows what next year will be.

274
00:15:44,377 --> 00:15:48,391
And so my default, my go-to is, Hey, talk to somebody about my shortcomings.

275
00:15:48,391 --> 00:15:48,991
What did they see?

276
00:15:48,991 --> 00:15:52,825
What I don't like, what's a passenger showing me in this situation?

277
00:15:52,825 --> 00:15:58,650
And it was one those things to where like when I first started getting coaching, it was
because I was feeling a little bit burnout.

278
00:15:58,650 --> 00:16:01,770
I wasn't sure like, you know, like, okay, I have so many ideas.

279
00:16:01,770 --> 00:16:03,882
spinning my wheels, I'm not getting anywhere here.

280
00:16:03,882 --> 00:16:10,868
And just kind of like at first it was kind of assessing where I'm at, why I'm doing things
a certain way and just evaluating.

281
00:16:10,868 --> 00:16:13,440
And then that kind of just, brought me good personal results.

282
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:23,177
And then I started working with, with coaches on the business fundamentals and you know,
like you hear it all the time, but you know, the EOS and the L10 meetings and expansion

283
00:16:23,177 --> 00:16:28,449
right now today, I have two coaches and one is on the, the, leadership side for

284
00:16:28,449 --> 00:16:34,674
finding purposeful pathway and leadership, being authentic and avoiding noise.

285
00:16:34,674 --> 00:16:43,412
And then the other one, I am so lucky that one of my investors just went through the
process and all my investors came from big companies or have done some incredible things

286
00:16:43,412 --> 00:16:44,983
like billion dollar companies.

287
00:16:44,983 --> 00:16:47,545
in that regard, that's why I picked them, but I'm blessed.

288
00:16:47,545 --> 00:16:51,848
But then also one of our LPs recently sold one of his franchise companies.

289
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,400
And it was one of the largest in the US and he works directly with me.

290
00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:01,787
I was talking to him before I got on this with you, you know, and just hearing his
perspective, he's ran companies a hundred times larger than mine.

291
00:17:01,787 --> 00:17:08,432
And I always keep that in mind of like, man, this guy has seen these problems years before
I even knew that they existed and just being open minded.

292
00:17:08,432 --> 00:17:13,637
and, know, just we're going through stuff right now, like management as we management
transitions and whatnot.

293
00:17:13,637 --> 00:17:17,239
And my number one go to question for him is just, Hey, what am I not seeing here?

294
00:17:17,239 --> 00:17:18,590
Or what am I doing that I need to stop?

295
00:17:18,590 --> 00:17:19,623
And he, he's

296
00:17:19,623 --> 00:17:21,716
very blunt with me in a good way.

297
00:17:21,716 --> 00:17:28,825
But to answer your question, it was just one of those things to where, you know, feeling
friction and I can either explore my own and try to like figure it out and that's okay.

298
00:17:28,825 --> 00:17:29,887
I'll do that.

299
00:17:29,887 --> 00:17:35,574
Or I can go to a mentor or coach or somebody similar and say, Hey, like, what can I
anticipate here and get there much quicker?

300
00:17:35,574 --> 00:17:38,477
That's, that's what led me to the coaching side.

301
00:17:38,909 --> 00:17:45,639
So when you, when you took on PE private equity, talk about the change in your daily life.

302
00:17:45,639 --> 00:17:47,961
Talk, talk about this, the good and the bad.

303
00:17:47,975 --> 00:17:48,315
Yeah.

304
00:17:48,315 --> 00:17:49,676
So, so I'll preface.

305
00:17:49,676 --> 00:17:54,279
So obviously I'm a creative founder, entrepreneur, willing to do whatever it takes.

306
00:17:54,279 --> 00:17:56,130
I, and I'm always employee one.

307
00:17:56,130 --> 00:17:58,112
I'll roll my sleeves up, get my hands dirty.

308
00:17:58,112 --> 00:18:02,154
I will test things until they are broken or until I figured out one of the two.

309
00:18:02,154 --> 00:18:10,806
Well, you know, finance was probably number three or four on my list, you know, as, when I
first started competent and it don't get me wrong, but like, you know, you're not going to

310
00:18:10,806 --> 00:18:11,947
like roll up your sleeves every day.

311
00:18:11,947 --> 00:18:14,048
Like, Hey, let's do the EBITDA calculation.

312
00:18:14,048 --> 00:18:14,770
Here we go.

313
00:18:14,770 --> 00:18:16,081
You just get after it, you go.

314
00:18:16,081 --> 00:18:18,842
And that was kind of me and it still isn't a lot of regard.

315
00:18:18,842 --> 00:18:27,227
But I think the biggest thing that switched was, you know, the second you have a partner
that like that, or you have LPs, you need to think about their goals and needs as well.

316
00:18:27,227 --> 00:18:33,211
And just this sheer focus on financial KPIs and metrics and things like that.

317
00:18:33,211 --> 00:18:39,835
the, the priority is, know, like you and I could probably talk cool startup ideas or
company expansion ideas or whatnot all day long.

318
00:18:39,835 --> 00:18:42,426
And we know the pain that goes with it, but we know the upside.

319
00:18:42,580 --> 00:18:49,314
And then switching that over and speaking different languages to somebody that's
passionate and understands that, but they want to talk about what kind of TAM is in front

320
00:18:49,314 --> 00:18:53,836
of them or what kind of earnings or contributory margin is an ideal worth and things like
that.

321
00:18:53,836 --> 00:18:59,139
And just kind of reframing that whole concept has been the biggest shift from how I
operate today.

322
00:18:59,139 --> 00:19:09,546
And then, you know, beyond that too, so I've, you know, giving reports on a routine basis,
like, you know, weekly, hey, like Wednesdays, Fridays, here's what you send, month ends,

323
00:19:09,546 --> 00:19:10,945
quarter ends, you name it.

324
00:19:10,945 --> 00:19:17,845
Getting more routine and predictable with that because again, when you, for me, for
example, you start your own business, it's for you.

325
00:19:17,845 --> 00:19:19,405
You don't want to fall into a norm.

326
00:19:19,405 --> 00:19:22,125
You don't want to fall into like somebody telling me what to do.

327
00:19:22,125 --> 00:19:25,725
Then all of a sudden you take on some PE stuff and all the other collaborative and
whatnot.

328
00:19:25,765 --> 00:19:32,785
You have certain things that you have to do on a weekly, monthly, quarterly basis, annual
basis that you probably don't want to do.

329
00:19:32,785 --> 00:19:35,545
It's not a bad thing, but it just takes time to analytics.

330
00:19:35,545 --> 00:19:39,691
It's boring for lack of better words and just really shifting from.

331
00:19:39,691 --> 00:19:44,883
Hey, I'm in the driver's seat full time to, I'm in the driver's seat, but then sometimes
I'm outside the car.

332
00:19:44,883 --> 00:19:45,964
Sometimes I'm a passenger.

333
00:19:45,964 --> 00:19:55,068
Sometimes I'm working on the car, you know, making that transition from like all star
player to sometimes coach to sometimes owner has been one of the biggest changes for me in

334
00:19:55,068 --> 00:19:56,390
this whole experience with PE.

335
00:19:56,390 --> 00:20:03,901
And just speaking that new language, you know, and just letting them influence me in a lot
of ways and seeing myself kind of like speak their language now.

336
00:20:03,901 --> 00:20:09,039
It's probably the most impactful thing that I got out of this outside of like operational
tells and help and whatnot.

337
00:20:09,213 --> 00:20:12,757
going into it, why did you take private equity?

338
00:20:12,757 --> 00:20:16,037
Was it to do some cash out or was it to truly scale and grow?

339
00:20:16,169 --> 00:20:21,883
So I've never taken any cash out of my companies, you know, and for me, it was a timing
thing.

340
00:20:21,883 --> 00:20:31,679
I wanted the scale and my, my thought was, all right, like I can go get a lot of blank
checks and you'll hear the argument of like, never give up equity, you know, never take on

341
00:20:31,679 --> 00:20:34,361
debt depends on who you talk to and depends on the situation.

342
00:20:34,361 --> 00:20:34,951
Both are right.

343
00:20:34,951 --> 00:20:35,551
Both are wrong.

344
00:20:35,551 --> 00:20:36,212
Right.

345
00:20:36,212 --> 00:20:40,774
But for me personally, you know, I was surrounded by people that were doing amazing
things.

346
00:20:40,774 --> 00:20:44,249
And I just told myself, I'm like, well, listen, like what's my goal here.

347
00:20:44,249 --> 00:20:47,774
Is my identity, my business, am I telling myself that?

348
00:20:47,774 --> 00:20:51,117
And that kind of led to a whole new chain of thoughts.

349
00:20:51,117 --> 00:21:01,046
But for me with PE, the goal was to one, do life with somebody that has done way larger
things and way more impactful things that I have ever done, because that's a new reality.

350
00:21:01,046 --> 00:21:07,973
And I was just curious about it and just fascinated with how somebody could have a 300
office location service company.

351
00:21:07,973 --> 00:21:10,215
But then also realistically,

352
00:21:10,237 --> 00:21:16,692
I was okay with breaking bread in exchange for that knowledge, also because that resulted
in speed.

353
00:21:16,692 --> 00:21:17,693
I can go to market.

354
00:21:17,693 --> 00:21:19,033
I can expand much quicker.

355
00:21:19,033 --> 00:21:20,555
I can tap into new things.

356
00:21:20,555 --> 00:21:23,417
I could partner with people that are way better at certain things than I am.

357
00:21:23,417 --> 00:21:25,087
So for me, it was a tool for me.

358
00:21:25,087 --> 00:21:26,318
It was an add-on.

359
00:21:26,318 --> 00:21:30,711
It was a big choice, don't get me wrong, but at the same time I knew, you know, I don't
like steady.

360
00:21:30,711 --> 00:21:32,922
I like new, I like exciting things, I challenges.

361
00:21:32,922 --> 00:21:34,308
I have to stay busy.

362
00:21:34,308 --> 00:21:37,915
If something's going smooth, going to, I'll find a way to break it somehow, some way.

363
00:21:37,915 --> 00:21:40,440
So for me, know, private equity was that expansion.

364
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,925
And it was the next, next adventure for me.

365
00:21:42,925 --> 00:21:45,776
That's why I did it just to really tap the.

366
00:21:45,776 --> 00:21:49,059
Did the outcome and what you're getting from it, did it equal going in?

367
00:21:49,059 --> 00:21:53,323
Because I don't know, are you a guy that when you make a plan, the plan goes exactly to
plan?

368
00:21:53,323 --> 00:21:54,309
Cause I'm not.

369
00:21:54,309 --> 00:21:55,141
No, same.

370
00:21:55,141 --> 00:22:01,796
I, so I try to be as detailed as possible, but I, I, now I, I don't really strive for
that.

371
00:22:01,796 --> 00:22:06,410
Now I put in like milestones and guardrails and I say, Hey, like, I won't go down.

372
00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:10,873
If this happens, I won't go this far or Hey, like I'm going to stay in these lines right
here.

373
00:22:10,873 --> 00:22:14,636
But you know, the, verbiage of the directions inside those lines, I have no idea.

374
00:22:14,636 --> 00:22:17,738
They'll change tomorrow, but I'm, I'm, I just try to hit milestones.

375
00:22:17,738 --> 00:22:20,440
So kind of the same, same as you mark, like, you know, like I,

376
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:25,465
I could set a really good plan and I follow my calendar as much as possible and whatnot.

377
00:22:25,465 --> 00:22:32,812
But listen, like, if something pops up or there's a new opportunity or we have to pivot
fast, I'm the first guy that's like, give me the wheel, let's go.

378
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:33,563
Yeah.

379
00:22:33,563 --> 00:22:36,785
So as a private equity piece, when did you take that on?

380
00:22:36,785 --> 00:22:37,307
2024.

381
00:22:37,307 --> 00:22:40,639
So summer of 24, about a year and a half ago at this point, give or take.

382
00:22:40,639 --> 00:22:44,454
And it's been a whirlwind since then, in a good way.

383
00:22:44,454 --> 00:22:50,240
And so I think, you know, to help other entrepreneurs out here, you know, not just grow
our businesses and our brands from this conversation.

384
00:22:50,262 --> 00:22:51,388
would you do it again?

385
00:22:51,388 --> 00:22:55,308
know you got these guys that you're in business with now, but would you do it again the
same way?

386
00:22:55,308 --> 00:23:01,616
Are there some things that you could learn if you had the mic and you had the most
brilliant future entrepreneurs in the room?

387
00:23:01,616 --> 00:23:03,858
What's the advice you would give them about PE?

388
00:23:04,342 --> 00:23:05,364
I think with P.

389
00:23:05,364 --> 00:23:09,456
So to answer your first question, I would do it again, but I would do it a little bit
different.

390
00:23:09,456 --> 00:23:10,427
Here's what I mean by that.

391
00:23:10,427 --> 00:23:15,069
And I don't mean from a sense of like, own all the equity or I own debt or whatever it
might be.

392
00:23:15,069 --> 00:23:18,331
I mean, just showing up and getting out or getting out of it.

393
00:23:18,331 --> 00:23:21,674
Let me try again and getting what I want out of it.

394
00:23:21,674 --> 00:23:27,427
For example, when I when I got in with them, like I viewed it as, there's a big whiteboard
in front of us.

395
00:23:27,427 --> 00:23:28,897
Think of all these new opportunities.

396
00:23:28,897 --> 00:23:31,861
We can try this, this, this, this, this, this, Well,

397
00:23:31,861 --> 00:23:39,896
As I kind of like come together, what I realize is they might focus on one or two, new
things versus my scatter shot 20 ideas.

398
00:23:39,896 --> 00:23:41,286
Let's see which one works.

399
00:23:41,286 --> 00:23:45,368
So I probably would have honed it in a little bit more from the start with them.

400
00:23:45,368 --> 00:23:48,859
But my goal was to expand their capital and try to do some things.

401
00:23:48,859 --> 00:24:00,394
So in one regard that that's been fast and fun and others, I realized that, you know,
what, what normal like PE or family office might require is a little bit more targeted.

402
00:24:00,762 --> 00:24:06,028
focus, so to say, I would have dialed in my sights a little bit sooner if I can go back in
time.

403
00:24:06,028 --> 00:24:13,044
Doesn't mean I wouldn't do it again or anything like that all, I would do it 10 times
over, but I would probably approach it with a different mentality and just never being PE

404
00:24:13,044 --> 00:24:13,915
back before.

405
00:24:13,915 --> 00:24:17,048
You have assumptions, don't get me wrong, but then you learn on the fly.

406
00:24:17,048 --> 00:24:27,049
And I think for others too, that question has to be one, like your self-reflection
ability, self-awareness, your tolerance for pain, skin.

407
00:24:27,049 --> 00:24:31,362
If you don't have it, you're either going to fizzle out or you're going to develop very
quickly.

408
00:24:31,362 --> 00:24:35,575
And I don't mean it from a sense of like, hey, these guys are mean or whatever it is.

409
00:24:35,575 --> 00:24:36,946
They're not, they're wonderful humans.

410
00:24:36,946 --> 00:24:37,837
They really are.

411
00:24:37,837 --> 00:24:40,078
But they're so focused on outcomes.

412
00:24:40,078 --> 00:24:46,774
Sometimes I think as founders, entrepreneurs, every now and then we find a way to almost
lie to ourselves like, I'm working on this new idea.

413
00:24:46,774 --> 00:24:48,065
This other one's not as good.

414
00:24:48,065 --> 00:24:49,696
And sometimes you're just avoiding the work.

415
00:24:49,696 --> 00:24:53,225
Sometimes you're avoiding having to be wrong or being vulnerable about those things.

416
00:24:53,225 --> 00:24:58,709
you know, somebody like a PE partner, like there's no other outcome except, hey, let's see
what we produced and why.

417
00:24:58,709 --> 00:25:01,741
Well, you're going to spend a lot of time on the why and the outcome.

418
00:25:01,741 --> 00:25:08,606
And if you can't be upfront with yourself or transparent or vulnerable about some of your
weaknesses or wrong decisions, it's going to be an uphill battle for you.

419
00:25:08,606 --> 00:25:17,783
you know, I think for others, that's a decision on one, if it's a value add partner, if
it's not just a blank check, if that's what you want, like if it's a value add partner

420
00:25:17,783 --> 00:25:21,469
that can take you somewhere, you know, I would lean into it, but no

421
00:25:21,469 --> 00:25:23,139
I would understand what they need first.

422
00:25:23,139 --> 00:25:26,090
That would be my encouragement is like, transcend spots with them.

423
00:25:26,090 --> 00:25:26,941
Why are they doing this?

424
00:25:26,941 --> 00:25:28,421
What's the best case outcome for them?

425
00:25:28,421 --> 00:25:29,691
They don't care how clever you are.

426
00:25:29,691 --> 00:25:31,862
I'm sure it's part of it, but what are their needs?

427
00:25:31,862 --> 00:25:34,333
And if you can appease those things, you're going to win.

428
00:25:34,333 --> 00:25:38,094
If it's all selfish and it's like, well, I just, want the, want the media and that's it.

429
00:25:38,094 --> 00:25:40,655
You're going to, it's going to be very bad all the way around.

430
00:25:40,655 --> 00:25:46,307
So, there's, there's peace around kind of keeping things small and owning it a hundred
percent whatnot on one side.

431
00:25:46,307 --> 00:25:47,438
Cause I've done that my whole life.

432
00:25:47,438 --> 00:25:48,944
You know, I've been a part of that.

433
00:25:48,944 --> 00:25:54,834
But also there's this thrill and curiosity and like what if scenarios on the other that's
fast and fun, but high stakes as well.

434
00:25:54,834 --> 00:25:56,566
So it really comes down to preference.

435
00:25:57,238 --> 00:26:05,366
What's your approach to, if you're scaling a business, usually the business is all about
the people, the people you have relationships with and the people that you agree to

436
00:26:05,366 --> 00:26:09,271
partner with you inside the business and help build their careers and help impact their
lives.

437
00:26:09,271 --> 00:26:12,994
What's your approach to talent with a growing company?

438
00:26:12,994 --> 00:26:13,314
Yeah.

439
00:26:13,314 --> 00:26:16,817
So one, you to incentivize their interest with yours.

440
00:26:16,817 --> 00:26:20,018
If you view it as top down, you know, hey, I'm the CEO.

441
00:26:20,018 --> 00:26:21,499
No one else can come to my office.

442
00:26:21,499 --> 00:26:22,137
This is it.

443
00:26:22,137 --> 00:26:23,620
Like I'm paying you a low wage.

444
00:26:23,620 --> 00:26:24,121
That's it.

445
00:26:24,121 --> 00:26:27,502
That, that era is probably behind us at this point.

446
00:26:27,502 --> 00:26:32,465
Like I'm sure there's some companies that can get away with that because they might offer
the best healthcare in the world or something like that.

447
00:26:32,465 --> 00:26:40,222
I've never had the privilege of being able to pay somebody 10 times overmarket or offer
them like the best healthcare or what have you.

448
00:26:40,222 --> 00:26:45,054
I've always been a guy that's had to incentivize with phantom stock or stock options or
similar.

449
00:26:45,054 --> 00:26:50,559
And so I think the first thing to do with somebody on one end is making sure that your
interests align with theirs.

450
00:26:50,559 --> 00:26:54,681
When you talk about exiting one day, why would they care if they're not incentivized by
it?

451
00:26:54,681 --> 00:27:00,385
So really just understanding like, okay, so all my managers have phantom equity in my
companies, right?

452
00:27:00,385 --> 00:27:03,768
And we run transparent books, we open door, you name it.

453
00:27:03,768 --> 00:27:06,438
Speak to phantom equity if people don't know what that is.

454
00:27:06,438 --> 00:27:07,178
Oh, sure.

455
00:27:07,178 --> 00:27:14,458
So, so in public companies, might hear like stock options and that's where like you're,
you're, you're an executive there or high level manager there.

456
00:27:14,458 --> 00:27:16,438
They'll give you some, some stock options.

457
00:27:16,438 --> 00:27:18,238
That way you have some of the upside of the company.

458
00:27:18,238 --> 00:27:22,738
So you buy a stock at a hundred bucks and it's worth 300, but you still have your option
to buy the a hundred.

459
00:27:22,738 --> 00:27:33,038
That way you create some upside with the company with, but with Phantom equity and private
companies, what I've learned is having Phantom is way easier for everybody because with

460
00:27:33,038 --> 00:27:33,668
options.

461
00:27:33,668 --> 00:27:35,259
You have to pay taxes on a lot of those.

462
00:27:35,259 --> 00:27:36,560
And there's a lot of loopholes here.

463
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,883
So I'd probably have some, some accounting guys saying, well, you didn't think about this
or this, and you're probably right.

464
00:27:40,883 --> 00:27:49,490
But for us, Phantom equity was a way for our, our team members to be incentivized and
participate in some of the upside.

465
00:27:49,490 --> 00:27:55,936
If we were to sell the company without having to fork over any money or pay tax on any
options, it was really win-win.

466
00:27:55,936 --> 00:27:57,598
It was no extra work for us.

467
00:27:57,598 --> 00:28:00,099
And it was no extra payment requirements for them.

468
00:28:00,099 --> 00:28:01,100
And so that way.

469
00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:11,920
If we end up selling the company to larger PE or a retail, whatever it might be, anybody
that's participating in the Phantom plan also will get a paycheck with that.

470
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:19,700
It's almost like an entitlement to a payout or entitlement to commission upon a sale or
something similar like that without any of the big covenants or restrictions that come

471
00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:22,680
with formal stock plans and whatnot.

472
00:28:23,068 --> 00:28:23,728
Yeah.

473
00:28:23,728 --> 00:28:24,708
Um, all right.

474
00:28:24,708 --> 00:28:27,068
So you're a guy that seems like he has some resilience.

475
00:28:27,068 --> 00:28:30,768
A lot of people that grow up in a competitive Nate environment playing sports.

476
00:28:30,768 --> 00:28:36,688
You have to, because man, I heard Roger Federer say, I think it was a graduation.

477
00:28:36,688 --> 00:28:37,508
might've been a commencement.

478
00:28:37,508 --> 00:28:44,728
don't know what it was, but he said that he's lost 47 % of the points that he ever played.

479
00:28:44,728 --> 00:28:46,808
And so he's one of the best of all time.

480
00:28:46,808 --> 00:28:51,208
And he became the best of all time at only winning 53%.

481
00:28:51,208 --> 00:28:52,488
But he said,

482
00:28:53,004 --> 00:28:57,624
When he lost those 47 % of those points every time, he forgot about it.

483
00:28:57,624 --> 00:28:59,940
And the only thing that mattered was the next point.

484
00:29:02,312 --> 00:29:03,367
what do you do with failure?

485
00:29:03,367 --> 00:29:05,022
What's been the approach here?

486
00:29:05,809 --> 00:29:15,468
Yeah, you know, us, I try to reframe it for me personally, you know, sometimes to find
where the line is, you have to want to go over it and you don't realize where it is until

487
00:29:15,468 --> 00:29:16,249
you do.

488
00:29:16,249 --> 00:29:22,674
And I try to have that same mentality as much as possible without looking for the edge all
the time or going over it.

489
00:29:22,674 --> 00:29:25,777
You know, I look at it as, there's a, there's a limit here.

490
00:29:25,777 --> 00:29:30,641
Anytime that something doesn't go as planned, something is either wrong and execution or
assumption.

491
00:29:30,641 --> 00:29:31,191
One of the two.

492
00:29:31,191 --> 00:29:31,752
Yeah.

493
00:29:31,752 --> 00:29:33,679
That's the only thing that could possibly be it.

494
00:29:33,679 --> 00:29:38,599
And so for me, I look at things, all right, if I failed somewhere, I had a flaw.

495
00:29:38,599 --> 00:29:41,379
Was I wrong in my, my thought process?

496
00:29:41,379 --> 00:29:43,299
Did I overestimate my ability?

497
00:29:43,299 --> 00:29:50,259
Did I, know, whatever it might've been, like there has to be some variable that I assumed
that that would or wouldn't happen and the opposite occurred.

498
00:29:50,259 --> 00:29:51,359
So there's that.

499
00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:56,039
So then I look at that as a learning opportunity for me, self-awareness, right?

500
00:29:56,039 --> 00:29:56,739
And like, cool.

501
00:29:56,739 --> 00:29:59,939
Like I probably wasn't the right guy to make a decision on this.

502
00:29:59,939 --> 00:30:02,759
I should have stuck to these things, whatever it might be.

503
00:30:02,999 --> 00:30:03,211
So.

504
00:30:03,211 --> 00:30:09,735
Every single step that we take and for us, you know, I've launched multiple brands,
multiple products, software, you name it.

505
00:30:09,735 --> 00:30:18,679
I can probably count the big wins on one hand, and I could probably count the amount of
times I've fundamentally just derailed something or messed it up.

506
00:30:19,119 --> 00:30:22,301
We'd be counting all day together if we went through one by one by one.

507
00:30:22,301 --> 00:30:24,702
And so for me now it's just part of the process.

508
00:30:24,702 --> 00:30:26,232
Obviously it gets a little bit better.

509
00:30:26,232 --> 00:30:28,065
I've learned what

510
00:30:28,065 --> 00:30:33,760
not to do in some situations, wait, not to assume about my, my, my own ability in some
regard or what have you.

511
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,253
And you, but you only learn that by going over the edge a few times and be wrong time and
time again.

512
00:30:38,267 --> 00:30:39,469
Yeah, stacking lessons, man.

513
00:30:39,469 --> 00:30:40,160
That's how we win.

514
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,753
That's it.

515
00:30:41,753 --> 00:30:42,233
Yeah.

516
00:30:42,233 --> 00:30:45,699
And so, so the resilience piece is how quick you're to move on.

517
00:30:45,927 --> 00:30:47,067
Yeah, absolutely.

518
00:30:47,067 --> 00:30:47,607
Absolutely.

519
00:30:47,607 --> 00:30:55,307
And in weird way, like, eventually you just get used to that concept, not because you want
to be used to losing and that's your bar, that's your standard, that's not it.

520
00:30:55,307 --> 00:31:01,467
But at some point, you know, losing in some regard, it feels scary at first or no one
wants to lose.

521
00:31:01,467 --> 00:31:02,687
No one wants to do any of that.

522
00:31:02,687 --> 00:31:10,247
But at some point, you kind of just get this mentality of you realize that when you're
wading in deeper water than you ever had before, you're going to fall in, you know, over

523
00:31:10,247 --> 00:31:11,067
your head a couple of times.

524
00:31:11,067 --> 00:31:12,731
Like you're going to be wrong sometimes.

525
00:31:12,731 --> 00:31:13,982
That means that you're on the path.

526
00:31:13,982 --> 00:31:15,463
That means that you're pushing the envelope.

527
00:31:15,463 --> 00:31:16,655
That means you're pushing the boundary.

528
00:31:16,655 --> 00:31:18,146
And you kind of use that as fuel.

529
00:31:18,146 --> 00:31:20,179
And that's exactly how I've approached it.

530
00:31:20,179 --> 00:31:25,104
If you ask anybody on my team, if you ask them what I'm good at, they'll probably tell you
first what I'm not good at.

531
00:31:25,104 --> 00:31:27,133
They'll probably go, on, don't have them do this.

532
00:31:27,133 --> 00:31:27,974
Don't have them do this.

533
00:31:27,974 --> 00:31:31,527
Don't let them do, like, they'll sit down with you for probably an hour first.

534
00:31:31,527 --> 00:31:34,249
And then two minutes of what I'm actually good at will come out after that.

535
00:31:34,249 --> 00:31:35,902
So failures is definitely part of this.

536
00:31:35,902 --> 00:31:37,154
like you said,

537
00:31:37,154 --> 00:31:45,519
Being able to keep on walking step by step by step in a weird way for me, like I said
earlier, I have never been a part of like a company growing this fast.

538
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:51,531
I've never been CEO of a P back company, but you just show up every day and step by step
by step and you get used to the lessons.

539
00:31:51,531 --> 00:31:53,242
You get used to the pain in some regard.

540
00:31:53,242 --> 00:31:56,695
You, you know, you just keep on walking in the direction eventually you get there.

541
00:31:56,695 --> 00:31:58,474
And then that just comes down to being resilient.

542
00:31:58,474 --> 00:32:02,196
If you understand your why and your, impact you're trying to chase enough, you'll keep
going.

543
00:32:02,196 --> 00:32:05,667
Like if, if, you do it for your own reasons, you'll keep going.

544
00:32:05,727 --> 00:32:06,407
Yeah.

545
00:32:06,407 --> 00:32:12,827
So beforehand, we talked for a few minutes before the podcast started and I said, man,
who's your ideal customer and what success looks like look like.

546
00:32:12,827 --> 00:32:18,607
And you said, if we can touch a million doors or properties, right.

547
00:32:18,607 --> 00:32:19,107
Speak to that.

548
00:32:19,107 --> 00:32:20,541
I mean, it's a big goal.

549
00:32:20,541 --> 00:32:29,675
It is, it is a big goal because if we could touch a million doors, either through supply
or services or something in between there, doesn't matter.

550
00:32:29,675 --> 00:32:34,016
That means that we're able to spread our impact way beyond ourselves.

551
00:32:34,016 --> 00:32:42,170
And I think one of the most fascinating and fun things that I've experienced on this
journey so far in one regard, it's absolutely terrifying and other it and another, it's

552
00:32:42,170 --> 00:32:43,600
just absolutely incredible.

553
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,931
This thing is way larger than myself at this point.

554
00:32:45,931 --> 00:32:50,292
Like I could not do this on my own, no, with any stretch of imagination.

555
00:32:50,292 --> 00:32:57,732
And so when I, when I look at that, I think of the concept of like all these markets were
in all these team members, how many jobs are you doing today?

556
00:32:57,732 --> 00:33:01,252
Um, and I remember starting off and I was technician number one, right?

557
00:33:01,252 --> 00:33:04,212
And so I could do one job a day and that was it.

558
00:33:04,212 --> 00:33:07,452
And then I said, all right, well, if I wanted to do 10, I'd have to hire 10 people.

559
00:33:07,452 --> 00:33:08,932
And that seems so far off.

560
00:33:08,932 --> 00:33:11,612
Then you get there, then you get to 20, 30, 40.

561
00:33:11,612 --> 00:33:19,368
So to go back to the million doors, that's kind of a representation of just like one,
it's, it's obviously company growth, but really it's,

562
00:33:19,368 --> 00:33:28,433
development, personal growth, but also developing others and testing your systems, testing
the market, making sure the market loves you enough to adopt you that scale and just

563
00:33:28,433 --> 00:33:29,333
refining it.

564
00:33:29,333 --> 00:33:33,616
So for me, it's all about leaving a big footprint, making a large impact for the
customers.

565
00:33:33,616 --> 00:33:38,158
And by us touching a million doors somehow, some way that is so much larger than I ever
imagined.

566
00:33:38,158 --> 00:33:46,542
And so far beyond myself, like that's to me, that's in one regard, it might sound selfish
for me to say, want to touch a million doors, but I think it's the most selfless approach

567
00:33:46,542 --> 00:33:47,994
that I could have in trying to

568
00:33:47,994 --> 00:33:57,999
to be able to spread that far and do that much at scale because it requires so much to go
well with so many people, the right team, the right mission, the right need and customers

569
00:33:57,999 --> 00:33:59,289
to adopt us at scale.

570
00:33:59,289 --> 00:34:02,951
For me, that's just a giant, giant thing of unison that's necessary.

571
00:34:02,951 --> 00:34:05,112
And so that's, that's, that's a fun part for me.

572
00:34:05,112 --> 00:34:08,074
It's not the, the, the, the pain points that come with it.

573
00:34:08,074 --> 00:34:10,595
Like I don't want to manage 10 million people, right?

574
00:34:10,595 --> 00:34:13,676
I don't want to have to do certain things, but that's part of the journey.

575
00:34:15,193 --> 00:34:22,041
What's inside of you that dared you and allowed you to set ever growing bigger goals?

576
00:34:22,886 --> 00:34:23,477
Yeah.

577
00:34:23,477 --> 00:34:28,501
Well, so I think that it's a combination of, again, we talk about being competitive.

578
00:34:28,501 --> 00:34:30,682
We talk about being curious.

579
00:34:30,682 --> 00:34:34,345
And I think that really laid a fundamental path for me.

580
00:34:34,345 --> 00:34:38,448
Also, there's this element of just, probably not a lot of people talk about this this
much.

581
00:34:38,448 --> 00:34:44,955
There's an element of just ultimate fear and just terror and like, you know, being scared
of kind of going down a certain path or what have you.

582
00:34:44,955 --> 00:34:51,913
And, and, and I think for me, just trying to face a certain fear and showing up and still
doing also motivates me.

583
00:34:51,913 --> 00:34:58,427
And so I think all of those things said, I have a desire to make a large impact.

584
00:34:58,427 --> 00:35:00,589
have a desire to be the best at something.

585
00:35:00,589 --> 00:35:03,632
have the desire to show up better than I did yesterday, right?

586
00:35:03,632 --> 00:35:05,663
And that's kind of that sports background.

587
00:35:05,844 --> 00:35:07,224
I'm deeply curious about the world.

588
00:35:07,224 --> 00:35:11,809
The world has changed so much in the past, you know, 20 years, even the past two years.

589
00:35:11,809 --> 00:35:14,531
So that natural curiosity is always in me as well.

590
00:35:14,531 --> 00:35:18,787
If somebody is doing something some way, I'm like, man, like there's gotta be a better
way.

591
00:35:18,787 --> 00:35:20,287
So all those things are in me.

592
00:35:20,287 --> 00:35:24,587
And then there's also this probably like, you know, this 5 % little like rebelliousness in
me as well.

593
00:35:24,587 --> 00:35:32,827
That kind of like makes me question things sometimes, um, like any good founder of might
have, and you know, somebody tells you to do something a certain way and like, ah, now

594
00:35:32,827 --> 00:35:35,727
thanks for the advice, but now I can try this way.

595
00:35:35,727 --> 00:35:38,915
um, yeah, although combination of those things.

596
00:35:38,915 --> 00:35:41,202
Didn't you have to find a way to play well with others,

597
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:41,712
That's it.

598
00:35:41,712 --> 00:35:42,175
That's it.

599
00:35:42,175 --> 00:35:42,920
Yeah.

600
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:43,968
And I've gotten better at that.

601
00:35:43,968 --> 00:35:44,831
I've gotten way better.

602
00:35:44,831 --> 00:35:47,100
How does the anarchist do that?

603
00:35:47,864 --> 00:35:51,888
I think that it comes down to a realization of it's no longer a solo mission.

604
00:35:51,888 --> 00:36:00,494
and you know, I think that it's probably something as well, like the second that, that you
win with somebody that you're giving a solution for, you feel, you feel good.

605
00:36:00,494 --> 00:36:04,657
But the second that you can help somebody give somebody else a solution, you feel great.

606
00:36:04,657 --> 00:36:13,361
And so for me, it was just one of those things to where I realized I could go much further
if I was in a group versus just like kind of me, you know, in, and it's okay.

607
00:36:13,361 --> 00:36:18,726
Now I talk about being a little bit rebellious because I, I bucket that depending on who
I'm talking to.

608
00:36:18,726 --> 00:36:20,237
I'll call it, I'm innovative.

609
00:36:20,237 --> 00:36:20,938
You know what I mean?

610
00:36:20,938 --> 00:36:25,851
And, that's my way of kind of just really just saying no to how things are currently.

611
00:36:25,851 --> 00:36:32,608
But at some point you just realize that it's, it's way easier to go in unison with a big
group of people when it's just beyond yourself.

612
00:36:32,608 --> 00:36:39,553
And it's okay to have that, that little bit of like, you know, I am a solo kind of person
and in many regard, I am like, I love talking to people.

613
00:36:39,553 --> 00:36:40,686
love hanging out people.

614
00:36:40,686 --> 00:36:48,342
But at end of the day, like one of my favorite things in this world, and it's not cause
I'm anti-social, it's cause I'm always talking to people, always involved and whatnot.

615
00:36:48,342 --> 00:36:51,144
I love isolation probably more than the average person does.

616
00:36:51,144 --> 00:37:01,262
And so that, that little bit of like anarchy or whatever you want to call it, like it just
all just stems from like a, a centralization around making sure that I'm being true to

617
00:37:01,262 --> 00:37:02,274
myself, you know what I mean?

618
00:37:02,274 --> 00:37:07,016
And, but also collaborating with others to reach a certain goal or what have you.

619
00:37:07,016 --> 00:37:10,936
I don't know, it's kind of a combination and depending on the day, it's somewhere in the
middle there.

620
00:37:10,936 --> 00:37:11,580
Yeah.

621
00:37:11,580 --> 00:37:11,880
All right.

622
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:19,398
So all these entrepreneurs out here, I'm sure you're going to hit a couple of multifamily
folks and they're going to say, what's this turnstirve and what's this turnstirve guy?

623
00:37:19,398 --> 00:37:21,469
but you have done again, collective.com as well.

624
00:37:21,469 --> 00:37:23,291
But, what's, is there a piece of advice?

625
00:37:23,291 --> 00:37:29,896
You know, we're all asked for advice now, but is there a piece of advice not to give to
other people, what would you go?

626
00:37:30,037 --> 00:37:35,881
What's the advice that Tyler needed in the beginning that, know, if he would have been
given that, like it would have, you would have shortened the worrying curve.

627
00:37:36,109 --> 00:37:48,049
You know, I think the advice, if I can go back and tell myself anything, one, it would be
to listen to others a little bit, you know, you know, like not, not be afraid to take

628
00:37:48,049 --> 00:37:49,009
actually advice.

629
00:37:49,009 --> 00:37:56,509
But also I, you know, when I, when I was younger, when I, when I first started, I was
frozen by the fear of the unknown.

630
00:37:56,509 --> 00:37:59,229
Like I was frozen of like, Oh, I've never done this.

631
00:37:59,229 --> 00:38:01,469
You know, like, Oh, I don't know if I could do this.

632
00:38:01,611 --> 00:38:04,893
You know, and eventually like you start doing things, you fight through imposter syndrome.

633
00:38:04,893 --> 00:38:06,444
Next thing know, people are asking you how you do it.

634
00:38:06,444 --> 00:38:08,766
And I'm like, wow, like this is quite the difference here.

635
00:38:08,766 --> 00:38:18,533
So if I can go back and give myself any sort of encouragement or advice or what have you,
it would probably be keep going as funny as that might sound.

636
00:38:18,533 --> 00:38:27,661
Because when you, when you first think about starting, you kind of lie to yourself like,
the more I write on a whiteboard and think about it, that's, that's being productive.

637
00:38:27,661 --> 00:38:28,421
Probably not.

638
00:38:28,421 --> 00:38:32,985
You know, and you, I think there's a lot of ideas that, that people talk themselves out of
doing.

639
00:38:32,985 --> 00:38:39,092
And there's a lot of useful things that probably don't ever take off just because people
think that they're not adequate or they're not qualified.

640
00:38:39,092 --> 00:38:45,918
you know, there's, there's way less qualified people, doing far greater and impactful
things than a lot of people today.

641
00:38:45,918 --> 00:38:49,561
And I think just people just assume things have to be perfect to start and they never will
be.

642
00:38:49,561 --> 00:38:55,265
So, but to answer your question, I would just, it would be just start and keep going would
be the first ones.

643
00:38:55,265 --> 00:38:56,036
and then also.

644
00:38:56,036 --> 00:38:57,066
Be open-minded.

645
00:38:57,066 --> 00:39:01,942
you know, be curious about who you're taking advice from, you know, don't take everything
verbatim, but be open-minded.

646
00:39:01,942 --> 00:39:07,022
Like be, it's okay to reach out to people and they'll surprisingly, they'll give you a lot
of their time.

647
00:39:07,022 --> 00:39:11,792
And that's actually how I got started was just a cold emailing, a bunch of people that
became mentors of mine.

648
00:39:11,792 --> 00:39:15,577
So all those things, is probably what I'd go back and tell myself.

649
00:39:15,795 --> 00:39:16,205
Awesome, man.

650
00:39:16,205 --> 00:39:17,716
Hey, thank you for the time today.

651
00:39:17,716 --> 00:39:24,512
Turn serve.com Tyler done again, done again, collective doing big things in Cleveland,
Ohio, around the country.

652
00:39:24,512 --> 00:39:28,104
And I'm sure with a million doors around the world at some point.

653
00:39:28,955 --> 00:39:29,650
All right.

654
00:39:29,650 --> 00:39:30,016
All right.

655
00:39:30,016 --> 00:39:31,247
Thanks for joining, man.