#162 - James Orsini on Leadership, Innovation, VaynerX, vYve & the Future of Entrepreneurship

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Perfection is the death of creativity.

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Fail fast, fix fast, learn fast.

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My personal anchor statement is right is right.

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And it comes from doing the right thing is always the right thing.

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Thanks for joining us for another, what I know is gonna be an awesome episode of The
Necessary Entrepreneur.

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We have an awesome guest today, James Orsini, but we were speaking to some folks here at
IHEART and NYC and I said, man, now it's a bad time to reevaluate the name of the podcast

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because you have to explain how to spell The Necessary Entrepreneur, but I'm pumped to
have a great conversation.

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We've hung out for about an hour today and James Orsini, everybody knows of Vayner and
VaynerX fame and you've been doing this for over a decade with those folks over there.

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Yeah, it's been 11 years in January I've been with them.

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It does.

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Unbelievable.

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Like blink of an eye kind of thing.

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So you've been in many different roles.

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And even before that previous 11 years, you spent almost 40 in corporate America.

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um The past 11 to be in a truly high speed entrepreneurial environment, maybe we can talk
about the crossroads of that today.

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Also with the 40 hours of what you bring from the Madison Avenue and marketing and being
in C-suite.

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Because I think it's very confusing today.

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How do these entrepreneurs, um how do we put a little professionalism, a dose of
professionalism onto our business?

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and surround ourselves with the right people.

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Yeah, well, I'll tell you, I've learned more in the 11 years than the three decades prior,
being in the hallways here.

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I'm watching this company go from a little under 400 people when I started to 2,000 plus
now.

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But if you didn't have those 30 years of experience, could you have grown as fast as you
did with the 11 on top of it?

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I think it would have been different, a different growth.

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You know, this was a mature, slow, uh, absorbed growth.

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You know, there were times where I was fast and furious.

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I remember going from KPMG to Goldman Sachs and, know, I was used to working on a ledger
paper and they put me in a room and had a computer.

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And they said, I said, what's that?

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And they said, it's your computer.

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said, no, I don't know how to work on a computer because you figured out.

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And, uh, they gave me an assignment that should have taken an hour and 12 hours later,
puddles of

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of sweat under my arms, I completed the assignment.

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So a little different learning.

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uh Absolutely.

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You I mean, you got to be comfortable with a world of change.

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If you're uncomfortable with change, uh you can't innovate.

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So you talked about ledger paper and computers.

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seems like neither of them have even produced anymore, right?

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We had a device in our hand.

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What's that speak to?

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I think maybe we went from ledger paper to a computer maybe in a decade.

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But now it seems like these things are changing in 12 to 24 months.

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Yeah, the speed that things are moving, keeping your finger on the pulse uh of new
initiatives, but not necessarily running at 100 miles an hour at the most shiny object.

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That's kind of what I've been working hard to keep entrepreneurs on track with.

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And when I joined Gary, we met in front of eh the company and I said, I'm here to help
keep the train on the tracks.

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And Gary's like, hold on, hold on, stop.

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You're here to help me hover above the tracks like the trains in Japan so I can move
faster.

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And that set the tone for 11 years.

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So what is the next piece?

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Some UFO stuff?

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What are we going to do here?

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We're above the high speed trains.

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Yeah, I mean it's kind of wild how, you know, I do say though you gotta embrace the
fundamentals to achieve success.

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So you can't leave the basics behind.

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You know, I'm worried about people using AI and they can't spell and they can't add.

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It's an issue.

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So you better have the basics down before you move to hyper speed.

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Do you have basics saved in your head, these fundamental basics across cross-pollination
of all businesses?

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Are there basics and fundamentals that there's tie downs to, do you need to go into the
industry and find out what the fundamentals are in that industry?

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I could tell you that's having a CPA background, profits rule, right?

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I mean, I think anybody can run a company that doesn't make any money.

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Anybody.

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It's really hard to run a company that's profitable.

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Because you got a purpose for profits.

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You can't look in the rear view mirror and say, how did I do?

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You know, too many doing that.

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It feels like we worked really hard.

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How did we do?

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Oh, we didn't make any money at all?

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It's kind of wild.

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I mean, you know, you really need to purpose to profit.

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Because that's what's going to feed the rest of the vision

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But in entrepreneurship, seems like we do have seasons where it's a struggle to obtain
some profits.

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Seasonality is fine.

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You're balancing a portfolio.

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Think of it like stock.

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Every one of them doesn't have to produce a 15 % return.

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Some will do 30, some might lose.

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But as long as the portfolio performs profitably, you're happy.

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That's how an entrepreneur's gotta look at their business.

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So this new one of the new ventures inside of you being the president of startup
operations is Vive.

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It's the V Y V E.

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Of course you got put that Y and everything and the V and all you guys, know, just
branding.

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um But you said that when Gary had you stand up in front of people and you're like, my job
is to try to keep it on the track.

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Say, Hey, hold on.

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Do you look at Vive trying to have entrepreneurs try to keep it on the tracks?

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Well, we we birth Vive mostly because the Fortune 500 executives and the entrepreneurs
that Gary was meeting, Gary felt were what he called low in the tank.

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They, they were spent, they were tired.

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They were not on the cutting edge of business or marketing.

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And they really needed to be refreshed across multiple fronts.

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So in Vive, we looked.

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to better the overall wellness of the leader, make them smarter about their business, make
them more in tune with what's happening in the marketing for the now, and bringing

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wellness in front of them, nutritional wellness, sleep wellness, uh mental wellness.

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We feel that that's what brings and makes better leaders, as demonstrated by Gary, and
better leaders run better companies.

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And that is a measurable ROI of less turnover.

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Right?

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We have a 17 % turnover rate in industry that averages 35.

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So, you know, people want to stay.

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And we attribute that to good leadership.

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So why did Vive fit into a pillar inside the businesses that he and you guys want to
build?

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Well, it was interesting at the time, Gary, we had an executive, uh Andrea Sullivan, who's
now the CEO of Vive, who during COVID was really just looking for some reasons to escape,

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right?

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And to gather some uh senior executive females, did one trip to Bali, did one trip to
Costa Rica.

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And it was Gary who peered into that and said, look, I think there's a commercial business
model in what she's doing.

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Get with her and see if you can figure that out.

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And so we wrote a business plan for it in January.

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We programmed it in February and March.

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We sold into it March and April.

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And we launched the first class in May of 2024.

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So you're into, as business and entrepreneurship goes, you start out with a plan, but it
seems to change.

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Right.

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Right?

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I think you started out with these cohort group plans of every three or four months you're
going to start a new one.

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You found an evolution that's necessary as a part of that.

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Yeah, originally started out as a 16-week program where we had our research showed about 8
to 12 was the right size for each class.

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It kicked off with a meetup here in New York for an immersion day.

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And then 15, 16 weeks of online programming where we brought in experts, some more famed
than others, Damon John, Bobby Brown, Deepak Chopra.

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those meetings which still run today were more of a Q &A fireside chat, not necessarily
talking head for an hour, but rather you as the vivor get to interact with those folks.

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And then it typically culminated in another gathering or a retreat in a particular
location.

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The first two were actually in...

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Modern Elder Academy in Santa Fe run by Chip Connolly.

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Last one that we have was in Amsterdam, we have one in New York.

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So, um you know, full immersion.

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Now what happens is you jump in when you're ready to jump in on a monthly basis.

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And then when we have 10 or 12 new people together, then we bring together the in real
life element.

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Who have you all found that, you know, when we're starting companies and inside companies
are starting new brands, we have an ideal client, right?

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This is the person that seems we're trying to sell to who this product is for.

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Did it start out with an idea on here's who we believe is the typical customer for this?

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What was that and has that evolved?

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Yeah, it was Fortune 500 marketers who had an entrepreneurial spirit and wanted to do more
entrepreneurial work inside of their big corporate structure.

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Intrapreneur, if you will, rather than entrepreneur.

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And cross pollinating, that's where we really felt the secret sauce was, know, if you know
anything about Gary, he's left brain entrepreneur, right brain marketer.

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So, and in the hallways of intermediate, it's not unusual for.

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the CMO of Pepsi to walk past the founder of an organic blueberry company in New Jersey.

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um That happens every day.

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But in the outside world, it doesn't.

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So we were cross-pollinating.

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And the entrepreneurs were learning from the marketers about scaling and delegation and
leaning into culture for their next initiative.

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And the marketers were learning from the entrepreneurs about speed and not being afraid to
fail and learning more from your failures than your mistakes.

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That was a, that's the real secret sauce and what we're bringing to it.

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this idea of failure, you're around that conversation a lot, lean into it, accept it, buy
into the idea.

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Where do you think we're at culturally?

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know wherever, you'll know the finger of where you're at inside your companies.

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Where do you think we're at culturally with this idea of where are at with failure that
it's necessary for significant growth?

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So that's interesting because I have uh strong opinions about that.

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think we're almost too accepting of failure, meaning um they don't really have a plan and
we'll back it and let's see, maybe it'll work and maybe it won't.

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You know, it reminded me in the early days of the dot com, I couldn't imagine why I was
reading Perspectus.

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And it was saying that we cannot make profits if we do make profits, we will not sustain
profits.

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mean, you know, strange things like not in accordance with the textbook.

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Let's put it that way.

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And the company would go public for eleven dollars and close at one hundred twenty one.

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And I remember meeting with some folks from Maryland at the time.

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I'm like, why?

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Why are you guys allowing this?

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And he said, well, you know, we're we're investing in the white space as long as they're
taking up the white space where we're rewarding them.

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And we saw how that story went with the dot com implosion.

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Um, I can't help but feel a little of that with AI at this moment.

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I don't see any plan for growth from AI.

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I hear a lot about cost cuts.

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I hear a lot about savings, which is good.

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You know, I'm proponent of that, but I don't see anybody talking about, and this is the
incremental growth that will come from AI.

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This is the new.

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And we were talking in the hallway before and what I fear most is that some folks are now
using it almost like whitewash.

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Right?

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Like we laid off 4,000 AI.

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And you're getting a false pat on the back.

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Like people think, wow, they must be really innovating over there that they figured out AI
and they could let go of 4,000 people.

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I'm not sure that's real.

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think we jumped the AI.

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Do you think AI is really moving the metrics for companies yet unless you're an AI
company?

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No, I don't.

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I think it's a powerful tool.

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I think it's a great aid.

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um I'm curious, I'm playing with it.

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I don't know enough about it to be dangerous, to be quite honest.

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m But I think it's out in front of his skis right now.

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Are you in the predictive business?

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It doesn't seem like you're so practical when you approach to things, right?

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I got the same textbooks on my shelf that I used in past, but I could tell you, there's
often, not the new one to the sun, basic block and tackling.

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Think of all the social media that came out.

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There was no new model.

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They had to revert to 150 year old advertising model to make money.

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All those platforms, they couldn't figure it out.

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That's what kind of has me cautious.

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um Optimistic, but cautious.

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So if that's somewhat your default to be the cautious entrepreneur inside an entrepreneur
environment, give me a little laugh there.

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um That from my perspective of being around so many entrepreneurs and people trying to
scale and achieve big things and growth and metrics, but um that it's important to have

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somebody like you right next to an entrepreneur that has huge hopes and dreams.

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um

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It's rare that an entrepreneur could attract somebody with your experience, with your
talent, and that you would want to coming from 30 or 40 years of a completely different

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environment.

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I'm sure you could sit around and we could have dinner and drink wine and you could tell
us for hours why you did it.

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What does an entrepreneur need to know about how to attract someone like you to help them
grow their business, to balance them in all the ways that they're not practical, that

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they're not cautious enough?

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Because we throw it to the wind and say, well, of course we can.

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We waste a lot of money.

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And a lot of times too, because, you know, the entrepreneurs that I work with, feel that
nobody knows their company better than them and they can do everything in the company

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better than anybody else in the company or who would come into the company.

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And that may or may not be true.

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don't know.

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Uh, but I do know there are, there are only certain things that just the founder and
entrepreneur can do.

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And there are other things that others can do.

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And I encourage the entrepreneurs that I work with to hire to your weakness.

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You know, like, I don't cut my own lawn.

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I got a landscaper.

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I don't want to cut my own lawn.

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Do I know how?

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Could I?

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The answer is yes to both.

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But I got other things that I want to do.

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So when we had that meeting here in New York, some people were like, yeah, you know, just
not good at finance.

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I'm just not good at marketing.

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I'm like, so why are you doing it?

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00:15:43,212 --> 00:15:43,946
Why are you doing it?

214
00:15:43,946 --> 00:15:47,481
mean, deer in a headlight, you know.

215
00:15:47,928 --> 00:15:49,859
So how do we attract someone like you?

216
00:15:50,060 --> 00:15:51,211
So go back 11 years ago.

217
00:15:51,211 --> 00:15:56,748
What do we need to do to attract someone that with the skills and the knowledge and the
ability as you.

218
00:15:56,748 --> 00:16:00,420
Well, it starts with knowing what it is that you're looking for.

219
00:16:00,420 --> 00:16:03,701
You have no hope of attracting me if you don't know what you're looking for.

220
00:16:03,861 --> 00:16:15,576
So, you know, if you're looking for somebody as Gary described to help him avoid the
potholes, to move faster, to quickly learn from 25 years of mistakes that I made that he

221
00:16:15,576 --> 00:16:19,488
didn't want to make, he kind of knew what he was looking for.

222
00:16:19,928 --> 00:16:24,830
And then even when he offered me the job, I didn't say yes because I didn't know him.

223
00:16:25,058 --> 00:16:26,549
And I went to other people in my network.

224
00:16:26,549 --> 00:16:28,750
In fact, Andrea was one of the people I went to in my network.

225
00:16:28,750 --> 00:16:30,909
And she's like, don't you know who he is?

226
00:16:30,909 --> 00:16:32,282
And I said, no.

227
00:16:32,282 --> 00:16:36,204
She said, he's like a Steve Jobs, Mike Zuckerberg kind of guy.

228
00:16:36,204 --> 00:16:37,764
Like he needs somebody like you.

229
00:16:37,764 --> 00:16:41,226
You you should, you should go back and do that.

230
00:16:41,846 --> 00:16:42,407
And I did.

231
00:16:42,407 --> 00:16:46,108
I walked across the street from what was Interbrand on 18th and 5th at the time.

232
00:16:46,108 --> 00:16:48,119
And he was on 23rd and Park.

233
00:16:48,119 --> 00:16:49,550
And I said, yes.

234
00:16:49,570 --> 00:16:51,307
So find the guy that'll say yes.

235
00:16:51,362 --> 00:16:54,505
Find the guy to say yes because you know exactly what you're looking for.

236
00:16:54,505 --> 00:16:56,676
Like when he asked me, you do this?

237
00:16:56,676 --> 00:16:58,678
I'm like, yeah, I really can.

238
00:16:58,678 --> 00:17:04,082
know, hey, I wanna build a $500 million integrated independent international
communications company.

239
00:17:04,082 --> 00:17:04,787
Can you help me do that?

240
00:17:04,787 --> 00:17:07,314
I'm like, yeah, I actually can.

241
00:17:07,915 --> 00:17:09,999
And then that's when I went back to my wife.

242
00:17:09,999 --> 00:17:13,259
said, look, I think I'm gonna step out on the cloud and say yes to this thing.

243
00:17:13,259 --> 00:17:14,600
She was like, you sure?

244
00:17:14,902 --> 00:17:17,322
You know, the first time I did it was funny.

245
00:17:17,985 --> 00:17:21,887
I became the CEO of a small publicly traded mobile media company.

246
00:17:22,128 --> 00:17:26,351
And there was an article, I left Saatchi to do it.

247
00:17:26,411 --> 00:17:35,438
And there was an article and the headline was, what makes James Orsini leave his
comfortable perch at Saatchi and Saatchi to go to Cedar Mobile?

248
00:17:35,438 --> 00:17:36,638
It was pretty funny.

249
00:17:36,638 --> 00:17:39,000
And I looked at it I was like, yeah, it was a comfortable perch.

250
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:44,443
ah Because I wanted to be number one.

251
00:17:44,564 --> 00:17:47,846
I was everybody's number two for a long uh time.

252
00:17:47,914 --> 00:17:50,976
And I had a lot of people telling me that I should have been number one.

253
00:17:51,316 --> 00:17:53,128
And it was a hard and lonely job.

254
00:17:53,128 --> 00:17:58,241
And who knows, if I had number two like me, maybe I would have been even more successful.

255
00:17:58,241 --> 00:17:58,801
I didn't.

256
00:17:58,801 --> 00:18:07,687
ah And then after that job, I read a book called Consigliere, Leading from the Shadows and
about being a great number two.

257
00:18:07,868 --> 00:18:09,339
And I was like, shit, this is who I am.

258
00:18:09,339 --> 00:18:11,890
This is what I'm supposed to be.

259
00:18:12,411 --> 00:18:17,374
And I just got, you know, continued to be comfortable in that role.

260
00:18:17,748 --> 00:18:22,975
Do you think it was important for you though to have some moments in the number one seat?

261
00:18:23,124 --> 00:18:36,051
yeah, yeah, especially in the early days with Gary because, you know, lot more, a lot of
people more smarter than me and, and, you know, more cutting edge, but very few CEOs and

262
00:18:36,051 --> 00:18:38,942
even fewer publicly traded company CEOs.

263
00:18:39,343 --> 00:18:49,528
So early on, you know, I could provide even a little text like, man, I know how hard that
decision was, you know, that tough I've been there.

264
00:18:49,768 --> 00:18:53,150
So, yeah, it made me a lot, made me a lot better.

265
00:18:53,254 --> 00:18:55,877
I learned from every one of the jobs that I had.

266
00:18:55,877 --> 00:18:56,938
I left every one of them.

267
00:18:56,938 --> 00:19:00,781
Like think about it, I'm still friends with every boss I've ever had and I had to quit
every one of them.

268
00:19:00,961 --> 00:19:06,536
But I took each one as a learning and stepping stone to the next one.

269
00:19:06,830 --> 00:19:17,130
Sitting here in the entrepreneur seat, whether it's somebody that's running a company of
one or a company of three or four or even 300, to your point, it's lonely.

270
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:28,294
And to have someone with your perspective and your experience, you probably had empathy
for him in moments when no one else had the perspective or the knowledge to be able to.

271
00:19:28,386 --> 00:19:35,991
I certainly did and it was a big, big investment for he and his brother AJ at the time to
hire somebody like me.

272
00:19:35,991 --> 00:19:40,326
um part of that was I didn't want to let them down.

273
00:19:40,326 --> 00:19:42,310
I knew how much of an investment it was.

274
00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:44,256
I mean, they own the company, it's private.

275
00:19:44,256 --> 00:19:53,102
um So I was determined to make sure that they felt good about the money that they were
spending because that wasn't going to take less.

276
00:19:53,166 --> 00:19:54,478
that sense of responsibility?

277
00:19:54,478 --> 00:19:55,186
talked about it earlier.

278
00:19:55,186 --> 00:20:04,207
It's like, James, I'm going to ask you who you were at 10 years old, but where's that
sense of responsibility that you brought at what, 51 or 52 years old eh that you felt

279
00:20:04,207 --> 00:20:04,638
responsible?

280
00:20:04,638 --> 00:20:05,910
Where does that come from?

281
00:20:05,910 --> 00:20:10,610
think it comes from the fact that I grew up in a family that was much older than me.

282
00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:12,250
My brother was 10 when I was born.

283
00:20:12,250 --> 00:20:15,130
I had a sister 14 and another sister 16.

284
00:20:15,370 --> 00:20:20,910
So by the time I was seven, everybody was around the table talking politics and whatnot.

285
00:20:20,990 --> 00:20:23,250
And I'm there, I'm listening.

286
00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:28,390
So I went to wear a Fidero hat in eighth grade.

287
00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:31,450
I think it was a little weird, but that's all I saw in my house.

288
00:20:32,078 --> 00:20:37,034
ah So certainly I was a little more mature than my age.

289
00:20:37,454 --> 00:20:43,273
So you mentioned uh a few minutes ago that to hire for our weaknesses.

290
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:44,311
Yeah.

291
00:20:45,054 --> 00:20:46,879
Or to compliment, you know what I mean?

292
00:20:46,879 --> 00:20:48,363
You don't necessarily have to be weak.

293
00:20:48,363 --> 00:20:51,212
This is not to insinuate that Gary was weak in anything.

294
00:20:51,212 --> 00:20:52,985
I'm actually I'm actually looking internally for me.

295
00:20:52,985 --> 00:20:53,254
Right?

296
00:20:53,254 --> 00:20:53,954
That's my deep breath.

297
00:20:53,954 --> 00:20:55,398
I'm like, gosh, what are you telling me?

298
00:20:55,398 --> 00:20:55,818
yeah, yeah.

299
00:20:55,818 --> 00:21:05,181
Now it's, are only certain things that you can do, you know, uh, and I remember when we
had a meeting one time, uh, with Gary and it got a little heated.

300
00:21:05,181 --> 00:21:09,207
It was me and the CFO and, he was doing some stuff.

301
00:21:09,207 --> 00:21:10,177
I said, look, congratulations.

302
00:21:10,177 --> 00:21:11,038
You could do our job.

303
00:21:11,038 --> 00:21:11,738
Here's the bad news.

304
00:21:11,738 --> 00:21:12,988
We can't do yours.

305
00:21:13,149 --> 00:21:17,491
So now let us do this that you hired us for that we know how to do.

306
00:21:17,612 --> 00:21:21,233
And, and you continue to make the rain because we can't make the rain.

307
00:21:21,422 --> 00:21:27,566
step out here and say this though, that's actually refreshing as an entrepreneur to have a
leader that's beside you to step up and do that.

308
00:21:27,566 --> 00:21:36,862
eh It is because it, cause almost at times when that's happened in my life, it's like
finally, like full ownership and not for ownership.

309
00:21:36,862 --> 00:21:39,273
You're telling me, got this.

310
00:21:39,333 --> 00:21:40,214
Yeah.

311
00:21:40,214 --> 00:21:41,024
Right.

312
00:21:41,087 --> 00:21:48,882
You know, what I said about, cause I've written a ton about the Vayner world over the last
10 or 11 years.

313
00:21:48,882 --> 00:21:50,724
It's all in medium by the way.

314
00:21:51,446 --> 00:21:54,150
but one thing that I noticed was, uh

315
00:21:56,258 --> 00:21:59,080
The advertising industry is an industry of fear.

316
00:21:59,221 --> 00:22:01,422
Is this the day the client fires us?

317
00:22:01,422 --> 00:22:02,963
Whenever you walk in.

318
00:22:03,604 --> 00:22:06,346
But VaynerMedia is a fearless company.

319
00:22:06,346 --> 00:22:09,368
They don't believe there's anything that they can't do.

320
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:11,530
And that's, it's the mindset.

321
00:22:11,530 --> 00:22:12,911
That's the difference.

322
00:22:13,472 --> 00:22:16,894
So, know, it empowers its people.

323
00:22:17,836 --> 00:22:19,156
And you feel that.

324
00:22:19,317 --> 00:22:26,102
You know, in other places, like everybody's hoarding their business, they're worried about
somebody looking over their shoulder, worried about somebody taking their idea.

325
00:22:26,156 --> 00:22:32,558
And this is nothing but a collaborative, open laboratory that everybody works in.

326
00:22:32,558 --> 00:22:33,498
It's wild to me.

327
00:22:33,498 --> 00:22:40,998
know, it seems like when you quote someone's name these days, people want to, you know,
it's all viral, but you know, let's go back 10 years ago.

328
00:22:40,998 --> 00:22:42,818
We even take company like Tesla.

329
00:22:42,818 --> 00:22:48,818
I remember hearing the first time, this was a moment for me as an entrepreneur, when I
heard that he released his patents.

330
00:22:49,398 --> 00:22:53,198
He opened it up completely about what it was to develop and build.

331
00:22:53,198 --> 00:22:55,998
said, you all can take it, take the battery technology and do it.

332
00:22:55,998 --> 00:22:59,062
And still he has not been.

333
00:22:59,062 --> 00:23:01,836
hampered from continuing to be the most wealthy person in the world.

334
00:23:01,836 --> 00:23:02,337
That's crazy.

335
00:23:02,337 --> 00:23:03,078
And I heard that.

336
00:23:03,078 --> 00:23:04,530
went, how's this going to go?

337
00:23:04,530 --> 00:23:06,668
eh That, mean, that's at the highest level.

338
00:23:06,668 --> 00:23:09,860
Yeah, those are people that want to leave a legacy, right?

339
00:23:09,860 --> 00:23:13,642
Those are people that want others writing about them.

340
00:23:13,642 --> 00:23:14,822
know, Gary's that way too.

341
00:23:14,822 --> 00:23:16,433
He gives away all the secrets.

342
00:23:16,433 --> 00:23:17,924
Like, hey, I just figured this out now.

343
00:23:17,924 --> 00:23:19,665
Everybody, you guys should all do this.

344
00:23:19,665 --> 00:23:21,890
I think he's stunned at how many people don't.

345
00:23:21,890 --> 00:23:24,166
His last book is completely that.

346
00:23:24,412 --> 00:23:26,994
That is the blueprint for how we do it.

347
00:23:26,994 --> 00:23:36,639
I, when I started flipping through the pages, I just laughed and I just went, there should
be no one that isn't taking action on wanting to build a brand and do marketing on social

348
00:23:36,639 --> 00:23:37,132
media.

349
00:23:37,132 --> 00:23:38,385
It's like a recipe book.

350
00:23:38,385 --> 00:23:39,216
It's it, right?

351
00:23:39,216 --> 00:23:39,995
It's a recipe book.

352
00:23:39,995 --> 00:23:45,298
However, if you leave some stuff out, it doesn't taste like it's supposed to taste.

353
00:23:45,419 --> 00:23:46,894
You know, it'll still be okay.

354
00:23:46,894 --> 00:23:53,754
Is that the hard part to catch lightning in a bottle that there are so many details to
really build a significant company?

355
00:23:53,754 --> 00:23:55,334
I mean, there's a lot, right?

356
00:23:55,334 --> 00:23:57,834
It's hard to build a big and profitable company.

357
00:23:57,834 --> 00:23:58,975
It's really hard.

358
00:23:59,136 --> 00:24:00,316
Really hard.

359
00:24:01,117 --> 00:24:08,900
You know, mean, I've been around some great companies and I've been around some companies
just aren't there anymore.

360
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,561
You know, they've fallen from grace.

361
00:24:12,621 --> 00:24:17,023
You know, this is uh this advertising industry, I think is under siege.

362
00:24:17,023 --> 00:24:20,265
You know, we just see nothing but mergers and consolidations.

363
00:24:20,265 --> 00:24:23,884
I'm just reading about the Omni-com interpublic and

364
00:24:23,884 --> 00:24:27,664
and losing DDB as a brand, that was a billion dollar company when I was there.

365
00:24:27,664 --> 00:24:28,877
Billion, would it be?

366
00:24:28,877 --> 00:24:32,142
It's gone.

367
00:24:32,142 --> 00:24:33,122
Why do you think that happens?

368
00:24:33,122 --> 00:24:38,764
I don't know what the exact stat is, but it's something like if you go back a hundred
years and look at the S and P.

369
00:24:38,764 --> 00:24:39,675
Yeah, why does it happen?

370
00:24:39,675 --> 00:24:41,476
Because they stop innovating.

371
00:24:41,577 --> 00:24:42,877
They get fat.

372
00:24:43,158 --> 00:24:45,059
They swell instead of grow.

373
00:24:45,620 --> 00:24:46,977
Everybody gets happy where they are.

374
00:24:46,977 --> 00:24:48,242
They get content.

375
00:24:48,382 --> 00:24:52,105
And then what's at the top doesn't want to rock the boat because it's still real good.

376
00:24:52,466 --> 00:24:52,796
Right.

377
00:24:52,796 --> 00:24:55,214
So, you know, let's leave that for the next guy.

378
00:24:55,214 --> 00:24:57,429
We're not going to do too much AI right now.

379
00:24:57,650 --> 00:25:01,113
OK, I got I got two more years until I retire.

380
00:25:01,113 --> 00:25:03,135
The next guy is going to worry about the AI.

381
00:25:03,135 --> 00:25:05,076
I don't need to do anything right now.

382
00:25:05,237 --> 00:25:07,160
I think there's a little of that going on.

383
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:15,463
So what's the approach if nobody's businesses right now are being drastically financially
impacted in the positive from AI yet, right?

384
00:25:15,463 --> 00:25:17,307
And there's a big debate on what it's gonna be.

385
00:25:17,307 --> 00:25:22,474
How much time do you invest there to be on the true point of the spear?

386
00:25:22,634 --> 00:25:24,985
I think you increasingly invest more.

387
00:25:24,985 --> 00:25:28,317
Okay, this is what didn't happen in the industry.

388
00:25:29,018 --> 00:25:34,300
When clients, well, let's talk about the whole social media world, right?

389
00:25:35,061 --> 00:25:44,687
The advertising industry had the ability to own the Facebooks and Instagrams of this
world, right?

390
00:25:44,687 --> 00:25:51,212
Instead, they invested in it and they made a couple, they sold out, made a couple bucks
and then they shelved it.

391
00:25:51,212 --> 00:25:57,706
and put it on the side and paid no attention to it and said, you know, we're making too
much money on television and radio, print, right?

392
00:25:57,706 --> 00:25:58,986
We don't need that.

393
00:25:59,527 --> 00:26:00,768
That was a mistake.

394
00:26:00,768 --> 00:26:02,689
That was a mistake.

395
00:26:02,689 --> 00:26:17,517
you know, dedicating uh a small portion of your time, energy, money to innovation,
whatever that innovation is, it's AI grade, you know, but earmarking, hey, 10 % of what we

396
00:26:17,517 --> 00:26:18,924
do is gonna be innovating.

397
00:26:18,924 --> 00:26:19,204
Yeah.

398
00:26:19,204 --> 00:26:20,445
This has happened to all the companies.

399
00:26:20,445 --> 00:26:21,125
There's examples.

400
00:26:21,125 --> 00:26:25,376
There's, you know, you look back at Blockbuster had an opportunity to buy Netflix for $50
million.

401
00:26:25,376 --> 00:26:28,877
eh Those guys had a meeting and they pretty much laughed them out of the room.

402
00:26:28,877 --> 00:26:34,519
And if you even go back, I think a story from Gary, talks about, he got laughed out of
room, the yellow books, the yellow pages guy, right?

403
00:26:34,519 --> 00:26:36,240
He's like, what are you talking about?

404
00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:39,681
these are really successful people inside these businesses.

405
00:26:39,781 --> 00:26:41,902
We just can't see outside the bubble.

406
00:26:41,902 --> 00:26:43,160
So 10%.

407
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:52,754
Yeah, I mean, I would start there, you know, I mean, but the notion is you have to embrace
change to innovate.

408
00:26:53,834 --> 00:26:56,045
Which means you got to change up what you're doing.

409
00:26:56,045 --> 00:26:57,006
You almost keep re-inhaling.

410
00:26:57,006 --> 00:26:58,136
Or you will be stale.

411
00:26:58,136 --> 00:27:00,597
You know, it'll just end for you.

412
00:27:00,597 --> 00:27:02,418
You know, let's talk about the Cadillac brand.

413
00:27:02,418 --> 00:27:03,994
I love what they've innovated.

414
00:27:03,994 --> 00:27:05,799
I now have two Cadillacs.

415
00:27:06,820 --> 00:27:10,151
They enter it, not yet, not yet, because I'm not a hundred percent there.

416
00:27:10,151 --> 00:27:12,902
If they had a hybrid, however, I would have had it.

417
00:27:13,102 --> 00:27:16,622
But I was a 25 year Mercedes guy.

418
00:27:16,982 --> 00:27:19,842
felt the car was stale.

419
00:27:20,202 --> 00:27:21,422
Somebody told me, go look at the Cadillac.

420
00:27:21,422 --> 00:27:21,942
I'm like, really?

421
00:27:21,942 --> 00:27:23,722
My father used to drive a Cadillac.

422
00:27:23,822 --> 00:27:25,822
It was so good, I bought two.

423
00:27:26,262 --> 00:27:39,462
I think they're doing, so some companies are leaning in, trying hard to innovate on a
particular brand, and finding their lane, and then riding that lane hard until Harley,

424
00:27:39,462 --> 00:27:40,922
think, is one that hasn't innovated.

425
00:27:40,922 --> 00:27:42,282
That's a problem.

426
00:27:42,552 --> 00:27:48,230
great brand just kind of rested in its laurels because this is what we've been for 30
years.

427
00:27:48,552 --> 00:27:52,152
And, you know, I just feel like they didn't do it.

428
00:27:52,152 --> 00:27:57,270
responsibility on the leader to integrate that thinking.

429
00:27:57,270 --> 00:28:06,198
Look, if it's not the leader, it better be somebody in the leadership team who pushes the
leader to see it that way.

430
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:14,496
I mean, you know, you don't know what you don't know, but you are accountable for what you
do know and don't act on.

431
00:28:16,116 --> 00:28:24,281
And, you know, that's, this is certainly over the last 20, 30 years, this is part of what
I tried to bring to the table.

432
00:28:24,281 --> 00:28:27,192
Like just make you aware of how it's done.

433
00:28:27,673 --> 00:28:33,296
You know, not to repeat it, not to replicate it, but to share what I've seen with it.

434
00:28:33,296 --> 00:28:41,346
I remember the first time I went on a television commercial for Sachi and they looked at
me like I had three heads.

435
00:28:41,346 --> 00:28:43,822
I'm like, why is everybody looking at me like that?

436
00:28:43,822 --> 00:28:47,867
said, well, we've never had a finance or op guy on a television shoot before.

437
00:28:48,128 --> 00:28:49,069
I said, really?

438
00:28:49,069 --> 00:28:53,044
Like, isn't this like $400,000 that we're spending on this production shoot?

439
00:28:53,044 --> 00:28:55,116
Like, yeah, yeah.

440
00:28:55,618 --> 00:28:57,110
I said, well, how do you observe it?

441
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:59,392
How do you know if we're doing it the right way?

442
00:29:01,144 --> 00:29:03,716
I mean, really, I'm the first guy ever?

443
00:29:04,357 --> 00:29:06,338
That's kind of silly, I think.

444
00:29:06,879 --> 00:29:10,762
So, you know, first television commercial we did here at VaynerMedia, I was there.

445
00:29:11,023 --> 00:29:11,924
I was on set.

446
00:29:11,924 --> 00:29:13,105
Where's it, where's it happen?

447
00:29:13,105 --> 00:29:13,875
Really, you want to show up?

448
00:29:13,875 --> 00:29:15,426
said, yeah, I'm gonna show up.

449
00:29:15,854 --> 00:29:17,128
You know, half a million dollars?

450
00:29:17,128 --> 00:29:18,569
Yeah, I'll be there.

451
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:24,374
So just, you know, observing, seeing, taking some notes.

452
00:29:24,706 --> 00:29:36,950
So since the rise of social media, um it brings the world that we previously weren't
exposed to, it brings it closer and it makes it feel available and possible for all of us

453
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:37,730
now.

454
00:29:38,530 --> 00:29:45,812
To the detriment sometimes in this world of entrepreneurship, to making everybody think
that they want to or can.

455
00:29:45,932 --> 00:29:49,573
Those are two different conversations, because I believe most people can.

456
00:29:49,773 --> 00:29:52,780
They can do more than they probably even believe.

457
00:29:52,780 --> 00:29:55,030
is within the capability of their wheelhouse.

458
00:29:55,471 --> 00:29:58,411
But, and there's such a high failure rate of businesses.

459
00:29:59,612 --> 00:30:09,235
Have you seen, coming from the C-suite and so much experience in corporate America, and
then spending so much time over here in the entrepreneurial space, along with Vive,

460
00:30:09,235 --> 00:30:21,078
spending time with a cross-section of Fortune 500 and entrepreneurs, have you seen some
essential skills or mindsets or perspectives where you can go from

461
00:30:21,762 --> 00:30:26,950
an entry-level position to being a successful entrepreneur.

462
00:30:27,436 --> 00:30:38,432
Yeah, I think uh what we're finding now is, I think the last time I looked over 270
colleges and universities in the US have entrepreneurial studies as a major.

463
00:30:38,652 --> 00:30:39,533
Okay.

464
00:30:39,533 --> 00:30:49,272
I also believe that um this wake of AI and the layoffs that follow, they're going to be
even more entrepreneurs.

465
00:30:49,272 --> 00:30:54,725
Because if what you were doing is not there anymore because they had now does it, you got
to find something else to do.

466
00:30:54,725 --> 00:30:57,867
I think it's going to birth a ton more of entrepreneurs.

467
00:30:57,867 --> 00:31:01,289
So I'm all for the small business entrepreneur.

468
00:31:01,289 --> 00:31:06,201
I've seen more, more things, you know, making money that I'm like, really?

469
00:31:06,201 --> 00:31:08,192
There was a business model there and they found that.

470
00:31:08,192 --> 00:31:08,693
Holy shit.

471
00:31:08,693 --> 00:31:09,633
How'd they do that?

472
00:31:09,633 --> 00:31:12,775
You know, so, um, I applaud that.

473
00:31:13,262 --> 00:31:18,868
Uh, and your observation about social media has leveled the playing field.

474
00:31:19,278 --> 00:31:26,322
So now you can be that small guy in Cincinnati who developed a little soap and compete
with Procter & Gamble.

475
00:31:26,322 --> 00:31:30,104
You know, because it's a piece of viral content, right?

476
00:31:30,164 --> 00:31:33,596
We saw that one guy with the ocean spray, all right?

477
00:31:33,596 --> 00:31:34,947
Cranberry juice, right?

478
00:31:34,947 --> 00:31:37,238
On a skateboard with some music in the background.

479
00:31:37,238 --> 00:31:41,210
The music went to number one after 30 years that it had been released by Fleetwood Mac.

480
00:31:41,210 --> 00:31:43,818
The product sold out from the shelf.

481
00:31:43,818 --> 00:31:48,226
When was the last time Colgate had a product sell out on the shelves?

482
00:31:48,226 --> 00:31:49,410
You would know better than me.

483
00:31:49,410 --> 00:31:50,071
Never.

484
00:31:50,071 --> 00:31:50,572
Okay.

485
00:31:50,572 --> 00:31:51,874
It's just, it doesn't happen.

486
00:31:51,874 --> 00:31:52,775
Right.

487
00:31:53,217 --> 00:31:56,742
But a piece of viral content can make that happen.

488
00:31:56,780 --> 00:32:03,540
Aren't we in this place though that we're working so hard to be perfect so it becomes a
piece of viral?

489
00:32:04,146 --> 00:32:07,809
That is, you're on a sore subject right there.

490
00:32:09,371 --> 00:32:11,933
Okay, you're scratching the scab.

491
00:32:11,933 --> 00:32:16,836
Perfection is the death of creativity.

492
00:32:17,097 --> 00:32:20,259
When I was in big advertising, we were trying to create art.

493
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,561
We were trying to win awards.

494
00:32:22,822 --> 00:32:25,684
In VaynerMedia, we're trying to sell stuff.

495
00:32:25,744 --> 00:32:27,255
We're trying to move stuff off the shelf.

496
00:32:27,255 --> 00:32:29,087
We're trying to sell services.

497
00:32:29,087 --> 00:32:32,449
We are not passionate about the...

498
00:32:32,750 --> 00:32:36,091
beautification of art of the creative.

499
00:32:36,091 --> 00:32:47,014
We're passionate about whether this creative on this platform with that algorithm, with
this cultural initiative is reaching that audience.

500
00:32:47,034 --> 00:32:48,504
And if not, change it up again.

501
00:32:48,504 --> 00:32:52,975
All right, lean into the stuff that's working, walk away from the stuff that's not.

502
00:32:53,036 --> 00:32:55,376
So it is a different world.

503
00:32:55,376 --> 00:33:02,058
I have a few clients now that I'm advising and they're just, they're like stuck in the mud
on there.

504
00:33:02,208 --> 00:33:05,261
on their brand, like, man, it's so important, but that's off brand.

505
00:33:05,261 --> 00:33:07,602
said, yeah, but you're not selling any product.

506
00:33:07,683 --> 00:33:09,544
the fact that it's off brand.

507
00:33:09,544 --> 00:33:11,966
You're not moving any product.

508
00:33:12,127 --> 00:33:14,388
You have to change it up.

509
00:33:14,388 --> 00:33:17,711
gotta do, uh big proponents of humor.

510
00:33:17,872 --> 00:33:25,638
We're big proponents of uh animation and comedy and uh mascots.

511
00:33:25,638 --> 00:33:28,971
Anything that helps you move the product off the shelf is important.

512
00:33:28,971 --> 00:33:29,582
You gotta lean in.

513
00:33:29,582 --> 00:33:30,502
oh

514
00:33:30,584 --> 00:33:38,062
Seems like we haven't been able to eliminate this default human behavior of striving for
perfection, because we were doing that even outside of marketing, we're still doing it.

515
00:33:38,062 --> 00:33:38,642
Right?

516
00:33:38,642 --> 00:33:41,242
Yeah, I think it's unhealthy for our society.

517
00:33:41,682 --> 00:33:42,702
I see it in kids.

518
00:33:42,702 --> 00:33:52,322
see it, you know, we were just talking to somebody who's, you know, talking about the kid
being nine years old and sending them to training as a soccer player.

519
00:33:52,322 --> 00:33:53,422
I'm like, he's nine.

520
00:33:53,422 --> 00:33:56,042
Like, he may not even want to kick a ball by the time he's 12.

521
00:33:56,042 --> 00:33:58,942
Well, at least wait until he's 12, 13 before you lean in.

522
00:33:58,942 --> 00:34:00,402
It's a ton of money, by the way.

523
00:34:00,402 --> 00:34:07,342
And I know I had a son who played baseball right through college, you know, through his
senior year and everything.

524
00:34:07,342 --> 00:34:07,872
So.

525
00:34:07,872 --> 00:34:13,845
It's a ton of money with your kids with sports, um you know, striving for it.

526
00:34:13,845 --> 00:34:15,745
Not everybody's going to play for the Yankees.

527
00:34:15,745 --> 00:34:19,008
I mean, you know, we faced that reality when we did it.

528
00:34:19,008 --> 00:34:22,680
We knew that we were going to leverage baseball to get the best college experience that we
could.

529
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:23,906
And that's what we did.

530
00:34:23,906 --> 00:34:32,192
I'm thinking about that on experiences and if you spend all your time in one lane, you're
not going to have a breadth of experiences.

531
00:34:32,192 --> 00:34:40,848
I'm a product personally after 46 years of life of doing a lot of things, doing a lot of
things and trying a lot of things.

532
00:34:40,848 --> 00:34:42,119
And I use the word try.

533
00:34:42,119 --> 00:34:45,361
I just made sure when I tried, I really tried to do it really well.

534
00:34:45,361 --> 00:34:45,781
Yeah.

535
00:34:45,781 --> 00:34:47,182
The best I could.

536
00:34:47,182 --> 00:34:51,537
And I always learned something to take on to the next one for the human that I became.

537
00:34:51,537 --> 00:34:55,800
I think it's important because there is, you can take that with you.

538
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,382
Take the learnings with you and the failures and the mistakes and everything.

539
00:35:00,503 --> 00:35:05,626
I did a podcast once when all I wanted to hear about was tell us some mistakes that you
made.

540
00:35:05,626 --> 00:35:06,201
You know what I mean?

541
00:35:06,201 --> 00:35:11,629
Take us through, we know you had a lot of successes, but let's talk about some of the
balls that you fumbled.

542
00:35:11,789 --> 00:35:20,091
And it's like, yeah, I bought these three public relations companies in London and I
merged them together and one plus one plus one equals one and half when I was done.

543
00:35:20,091 --> 00:35:23,052
You know, because I didn't pay any attention to culture and they were all different.

544
00:35:23,052 --> 00:35:24,879
And then they want to say, what'd you learn from it?

545
00:35:24,879 --> 00:35:26,222
You're like, don't do the same thing.

546
00:35:26,222 --> 00:35:28,482
Yeah, don't do the same thing.

547
00:35:28,482 --> 00:35:34,022
You know, you don't need to be in 31 offices in 26 countries to service the world.

548
00:35:34,022 --> 00:35:35,022
learned that.

549
00:35:35,022 --> 00:35:38,362
They're still trying to close stuff that I opened up in the eighties.

550
00:35:38,362 --> 00:35:50,182
So, uh, you know, there's a lot of stuff that I learned from it and, uh, and bringing it
in, uh, you know, that, that has value and, um, and it doesn't have to be exactly, this is

551
00:35:50,182 --> 00:35:54,162
what I laugh at with, uh, I'm looking at board positions now, right?

552
00:35:54,162 --> 00:35:55,800
It would be 63 in January.

553
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,050
board positions.

554
00:35:58,312 --> 00:36:05,857
And you know, you're an electrical company in the Midwest and you're looking for board
members that have electrical experience.

555
00:36:05,857 --> 00:36:08,069
Like, well, you got a whole freaking company's got electrical experience.

556
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:10,400
You want somebody who doesn't have electrical experience, right?

557
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,422
Don't you want a very fresh perspective in there?

558
00:36:12,422 --> 00:36:14,973
I mean, seriously, that's what it's supposed to be about.

559
00:36:14,973 --> 00:36:16,585
That's what the board is.

560
00:36:16,585 --> 00:36:20,387
The board is outside, fresh thinking.

561
00:36:20,487 --> 00:36:24,640
You know, it's it's a problem and why I stopped getting

562
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:32,966
you know, some subscriptions in this industry, because we talk to ourselves as an
industry, you know, instead of getting real outside perspective.

563
00:36:33,356 --> 00:36:35,608
So, but we do that as humans.

564
00:36:35,608 --> 00:36:45,635
So here's the question, if we're not supposed to read the comments, because I actually
believe personally, I want the honest transparent feedback, but there's these big, huge,

565
00:36:45,635 --> 00:36:50,688
successful people read the comments, which is someone's just opinion or perspective, but.

566
00:36:52,590 --> 00:36:53,971
Can I challenge you on that?

567
00:36:54,151 --> 00:36:56,593
Okay, it's not about reading the comments.

568
00:36:57,094 --> 00:37:01,337
It's about don't engage with the comments that you don't want to engage in.

569
00:37:01,798 --> 00:37:02,639
Haters gonna hate.

570
00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:04,960
You're never gonna not have their opinion.

571
00:37:05,121 --> 00:37:10,996
But we've come to find that your next creative brief is in the comments, right?

572
00:37:10,996 --> 00:37:17,391
So you should be paying attention with and engaging proactively with positive comments.

573
00:37:17,391 --> 00:37:19,313
Okay, leave the negative behind.

574
00:37:19,313 --> 00:37:20,758
um

575
00:37:20,758 --> 00:37:30,316
But also realize if your customers are saying something in there, your next product
development or enhancement might be in the comment section, hey, this is a great product,

576
00:37:30,316 --> 00:37:32,187
too bad it doesn't do this.

577
00:37:32,708 --> 00:37:33,269
Right?

578
00:37:33,269 --> 00:37:40,004
That was kind of like, you know, I remember having a, what car did I have?

579
00:37:40,004 --> 00:37:46,980
Anyway, I had one car and I was like, you know, it's too bad they really, they don't have
a backup camera option in this thing.

580
00:37:46,980 --> 00:37:49,832
And mid-year, now it wasn't just my comment, but.

581
00:37:49,942 --> 00:37:52,284
Others must have said the same thing.

582
00:37:52,504 --> 00:38:03,974
By mid-year there was like a fix like, hey, come in and we can install this, you know,
this backup cameras at a time when most people had it, like almost standard.

583
00:38:03,974 --> 00:38:08,047
you know, I'm spending a lot of money on a car and they didn't have it.

584
00:38:08,047 --> 00:38:09,166
So, you know.

585
00:38:09,166 --> 00:38:09,446
Yeah.

586
00:38:09,446 --> 00:38:18,146
Imagine if your favorite restaurant, if you had a bad experience and you gave them a
one-star review and you gave them honest feedback, but they just cast it aside.

587
00:38:18,366 --> 00:38:21,426
That's a free opportunity for them to listen to a valuable client.

588
00:38:21,426 --> 00:38:21,926
Yeah.

589
00:38:21,926 --> 00:38:22,466
Right.

590
00:38:22,466 --> 00:38:22,846
Yeah.

591
00:38:22,846 --> 00:38:29,986
So I think what's, what's tough in society now though, is maybe this lack of resilience
where it hasn't been developed and maybe that negative comment.

592
00:38:29,986 --> 00:38:31,986
It's tough to know which one's true and honest.

593
00:38:32,044 --> 00:38:37,555
Yeah, this is a, you gotta look for patterns and not one-offs, you know?

594
00:38:37,816 --> 00:38:41,457
That's part of what I do in businesses that I evaluate too.

595
00:38:41,457 --> 00:38:45,998
I'm looking for patterns, I'm looking for trends, and then I go in and try to figure.

596
00:38:45,998 --> 00:38:53,220
I would be overwhelmed if I tried to fix every negative issue or thought that came across
my desk.

597
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,620
But I recognize, hmm, you know what?

598
00:38:55,620 --> 00:38:57,761
I saw that now in three different places.

599
00:38:57,761 --> 00:38:58,734
I think there's something there.

600
00:38:58,734 --> 00:39:00,382
I'm gonna have to address that.

601
00:39:01,678 --> 00:39:04,658
Too coincidental to happen that many times.

602
00:39:05,006 --> 00:39:07,086
There's a question in two areas here.

603
00:39:07,086 --> 00:39:09,466
talked about seeking out board seats.

604
00:39:09,466 --> 00:39:12,806
I'm assuming for companies that you're like, that would be fun to be a part of that.

605
00:39:13,406 --> 00:39:17,406
What's going to be exciting now at 63, because you invoked your age.

606
00:39:17,406 --> 00:39:18,746
didn't bring it up.

607
00:39:18,746 --> 00:39:21,966
At 63, what's going to be exciting about that part of your life?

608
00:39:21,966 --> 00:39:27,706
Oh, I think just, you know, helping businesses find their next level.

609
00:39:27,706 --> 00:39:33,066
You know, there's a lot of businesses that can reach five million to get stuck or 10
million and they're stuck.

610
00:39:33,946 --> 00:39:39,526
You know, I know I have friends who've had a $10 million business for 12 years.

611
00:39:39,526 --> 00:39:43,726
Well, that's an issue because something that's not growing is really dying.

612
00:39:43,866 --> 00:39:44,646
Right.

613
00:39:45,126 --> 00:39:47,346
Human plant life.

614
00:39:47,346 --> 00:39:47,786
Right.

615
00:39:47,786 --> 00:39:49,246
You got to keep the growth.

616
00:39:49,246 --> 00:39:51,918
You may not have to grow at 30, 40 % per year.

617
00:39:51,918 --> 00:39:55,738
But you should be growing and moving forward.

618
00:39:55,858 --> 00:39:57,798
So just helping, helping now.

619
00:39:57,798 --> 00:40:01,398
I'm working with a small company out in California, a apparel company.

620
00:40:02,798 --> 00:40:05,898
But this is one that is stuck on the brand, right?

621
00:40:06,158 --> 00:40:07,978
It's brand perfection.

622
00:40:08,858 --> 00:40:11,998
And I think there's other things that he could do.

623
00:40:11,998 --> 00:40:17,318
So I just introduced him to somebody who specializes in animation and mascots.

624
00:40:17,398 --> 00:40:21,598
And my hope is that they'll engage with that person in 2026 and help move the needle.

625
00:40:21,934 --> 00:40:23,670
Is it important to try things?

626
00:40:24,206 --> 00:40:26,746
Yeah, fail fast, fix fast, learn fast.

627
00:40:26,846 --> 00:40:30,366
That's kind of what we do in VaynerMedia.

628
00:40:30,366 --> 00:40:33,366
It's what I did at Satchi when we were there as well.

629
00:40:34,186 --> 00:40:41,166
You have to try some stuff and give it enough time to root, not just kind of one and done.

630
00:40:42,006 --> 00:40:46,886
But if you fail, then fix it and learn from it.

631
00:40:47,170 --> 00:40:50,228
Is there a James Orsini book on the horizon?

632
00:40:50,316 --> 00:40:53,751
You know, mean, had a lot of people ask me about that.

633
00:40:53,751 --> 00:41:02,472
Now, who knows, maybe with AI and the fact I've been on 70 podcasts and written 30
articles, maybe I'll just dump all that stuff into AI and a book will come out.

634
00:41:02,737 --> 00:41:04,757
I'd write one in about seven minutes.

635
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:06,263
So I hear.

636
00:41:06,489 --> 00:41:07,886
Might have to work on that.

637
00:41:07,886 --> 00:41:08,106
Okay.

638
00:41:08,106 --> 00:41:10,748
I'm sure you know the publishers in the business, right?

639
00:41:10,748 --> 00:41:16,093
Going forward, let's say you've got another good 10 years in here of fast pace.

640
00:41:16,093 --> 00:41:17,714
You might say 20.

641
00:41:17,714 --> 00:41:19,355
There's deep breaths there.

642
00:41:20,657 --> 00:41:22,602
Is that a good metric is 10 years a good metric?

643
00:41:22,602 --> 00:41:29,127
Look, uh there's something to be said for uh the way Derek Jeter walked off of his career,
right?

644
00:41:29,127 --> 00:41:32,810
uh He had a walk off and said, okay, that's my last that bad.

645
00:41:32,810 --> 00:41:35,021
Well, you got one more game in Boston.

646
00:41:35,021 --> 00:41:36,532
Nah, I'm not gonna go.

647
00:41:36,532 --> 00:41:38,984
I just had a walk off, everybody's screaming, they're hugging me.

648
00:41:38,984 --> 00:41:40,946
mean, why do it?

649
00:41:40,946 --> 00:41:43,978
So I'm looking for the Jeter moment.

650
00:41:44,825 --> 00:41:46,510
What happens if it doesn't come for 10 years?

651
00:41:46,510 --> 00:41:49,830
Yeah, there's a lot of people who stay way past the Jeter moment.

652
00:41:49,830 --> 00:41:52,550
Instead of rose petals, they start throwing rocks.

653
00:41:52,558 --> 00:41:55,019
What do you think the some of the best advice?

654
00:41:55,019 --> 00:42:02,622
I'm not just interested in this, these cliche answers, but what do you think you really
have to offer to the people coming up now running these businesses?

655
00:42:02,622 --> 00:42:09,705
If they don't have access to you, if you're not on their board, if they don't have an
opportunity to sit down and talk, what's a, cause we go back to it, to a Jim Rohn, all the

656
00:42:09,705 --> 00:42:17,798
things that guy was brilliant, but there's something when I, when there's people that have
huge brands that have accomplished stuff, when they make a definitive statement, I pay

657
00:42:17,798 --> 00:42:19,088
attention to that.

658
00:42:19,469 --> 00:42:22,730
And I believe it's a paraphrase, but I believe he said that,

659
00:42:24,142 --> 00:42:27,122
The only thing that matters is your personal philosophy.

660
00:42:27,122 --> 00:42:29,562
I think it's somewhere around that.

661
00:42:29,562 --> 00:42:35,542
That's good advice because if somebody really wants to grow, somebody that intelligent and
smart, take that, like, what's that mean?

662
00:42:35,722 --> 00:42:39,402
It's like, your personal philosophy affects every decision you make.

663
00:42:39,882 --> 00:42:47,494
So is there something that you're seeing over the past 30, 40, 50 years that you're like,
man, if they just do this.

664
00:42:47,586 --> 00:42:51,708
Yeah, my personal anchor statement is right is right.

665
00:42:52,109 --> 00:42:54,350
And it comes from doing the right thing is always the right thing.

666
00:42:54,350 --> 00:43:07,137
um know, family, business is doing the right thing when nobody's And that's the, know, I
hope business gets a little more back to that.

667
00:43:07,657 --> 00:43:13,040
I saw a scary side of things on Wall Street when I was the CEO of public traded company.

668
00:43:13,380 --> 00:43:15,221
And it bothered me a lot, you know.

669
00:43:15,221 --> 00:43:16,742
um

670
00:43:17,094 --> 00:43:21,116
And uh I just purpose to walk the straight and narrow.

671
00:43:21,116 --> 00:43:27,668
uh Family, friends, work, uh church, seat hall, right?

672
00:43:27,668 --> 00:43:28,859
We talked about that.

673
00:43:28,859 --> 00:43:32,220
So I actually served on the Board of Regents there for seven years too.

674
00:43:32,220 --> 00:43:37,260
um So I would say for me, if it's a philosophy, it's right is right.

675
00:43:37,260 --> 00:43:41,714
So one final one here, even though we didn't have to, had a good conversation, not a bunch
of questions.

676
00:43:42,050 --> 00:43:46,538
Do you think that leaders are they trained or are found?

677
00:43:46,604 --> 00:43:51,076
You know, I became a leader mostly because people chose to follow.

678
00:43:51,696 --> 00:44:03,242
I didn't have to always say, hey, I'm the CEO, you need to listen to me or I'm the, you
know, before I knew it, was, you know, captain of a team because people got behind what I

679
00:44:03,242 --> 00:44:10,365
was doing or, or heading up the ushers ministry in my church because I don't know, I
wasn't appointed.

680
00:44:10,365 --> 00:44:11,525
It just kind of happened.

681
00:44:11,525 --> 00:44:13,326
So, um,

682
00:44:13,432 --> 00:44:15,930
So that means that you were discovered and found.

683
00:44:15,930 --> 00:44:24,397
Yeah, I think you know leaders have it in them, know, they're they're not gonna sit in the
back of the class They're probably gonna sit in the front They're not gonna be the last to

684
00:44:24,397 --> 00:44:24,907
raise their hand.

685
00:44:24,907 --> 00:44:31,682
There might be the first that's kind of always the person that I was And it's worked out
good for me

686
00:44:31,682 --> 00:44:36,521
You think you can take those ideas even with vibe and stuff and maybe people that didn't
have those natural instincts.

687
00:44:36,521 --> 00:44:40,728
That's kind of the question like can they be taught and learned?

688
00:44:40,728 --> 00:44:45,216
I know we can learn a lot, but can you really flip the switch on the trajectory of those
types of

689
00:44:45,216 --> 00:44:47,908
Yeah, we're helping people discover themselves.

690
00:44:47,948 --> 00:44:49,799
Like it's in them already.

691
00:44:49,799 --> 00:44:52,941
We just kind of help them discover it and find it.

692
00:44:52,941 --> 00:44:56,734
You know, a lot of people come into Vive thinking they want one thing.

693
00:44:56,734 --> 00:44:59,941
We had a guy come into Vive, okay, here's what I'm going to do three more years.

694
00:44:59,941 --> 00:45:01,698
I'm going to flip my company, sell my company.

695
00:45:01,698 --> 00:45:07,441
And then by the end of Vive, he's like, I realized I hate, I hate what I'm doing in my
company.

696
00:45:08,002 --> 00:45:12,625
I like the whole &A approach of buying this company and everything.

697
00:45:12,625 --> 00:45:13,826
I want to do &A.

698
00:45:14,072 --> 00:45:15,462
I'm gonna sell my company right now.

699
00:45:15,462 --> 00:45:19,487
I'm not waiting three years and I'm gonna just do M &A and other stuff.

700
00:45:19,487 --> 00:45:21,388
We just helped him discover that.

701
00:45:21,388 --> 00:45:25,011
But he walked in thinking he was gonna have this kind of plan.

702
00:45:25,212 --> 00:45:38,153
So, you know, people come into Vibe when they're transitioning out of a role into another,
or when they feel, uh you know, they got a passion project that they think could be a

703
00:45:38,153 --> 00:45:39,514
profession somewhere down the road.

704
00:45:39,514 --> 00:45:42,178
It's a side hustle now, but you know.

705
00:45:42,178 --> 00:45:44,102
I'm not here because of the job that I hold.

706
00:45:44,102 --> 00:45:46,045
I'm here because of the side hustle I'm thinking about.

707
00:45:46,045 --> 00:45:48,969
Can you help me flush that out?

708
00:45:49,271 --> 00:45:51,384
know, vibes have been pretty cool that way.

709
00:45:51,384 --> 00:45:52,420
How do people engage with that?

710
00:45:52,420 --> 00:45:54,342
If this has triggered somebody's brain, like, is that?

711
00:45:54,342 --> 00:45:55,698
How can I be a part of it?

712
00:45:55,828 --> 00:45:59,521
and just go on socials on Vibe, V-Y-V-E.

713
00:45:59,521 --> 00:46:12,590
know, we're on LinkedIn, we're on Instagram, we're on TikTok as well, you know, and
engagement or email me at jorsiniatvaynermedia.com.

714
00:46:13,572 --> 00:46:22,248
You know, certainly all my, I'm James Orsini on LinkedIn and Instagram, at jimmythepencil
on X.

715
00:46:22,412 --> 00:46:24,459
I don't talk about it, but man

716
00:46:26,018 --> 00:46:30,832
Background at Jimmy the pencil that sounds like you hung out with some with some guys
doing some things

717
00:46:31,513 --> 00:46:33,107
Yeah, you need another 45 minutes.

718
00:46:33,107 --> 00:46:36,524
Yeah, that's it, ah Wight, thanks for joining us.

719
00:46:36,524 --> 00:46:37,692
It's been a pleasure.

720
00:46:37,692 --> 00:46:39,104
I hope your audience gets something from it.

721
00:46:39,104 --> 00:46:43,216
If they don't, I don't know what to I them.

722
00:46:43,216 --> 00:46:44,089
I blame them.

723
00:46:44,089 --> 00:46:44,550
All right.

724
00:46:44,550 --> 00:46:45,494
Have a good holiday season.

725
00:46:45,494 --> 00:46:46,514
Thank you.