#161 -Amy Gregory Weber: Building High-Performing Sales Teams & Scaling Revenue Through People Alignment

0:00 You can't teach grit. You either have it or you don't. What I do think you can teach is accountability. Today on the Necessary Entrepreneurial, welcome back. am pumped to be joined by Amy Gregory Weber. Better watch out when they bring the three names, it's about to get serious. But Amy Weber, founder of Vetta Sales Consulting.

0:42 Amy spent decades leading sales teams at companies like Microsoft and Twilio, and now she helps entrepreneurs and growing businesses build smarter data-driven sales strategies. She's all about helping founders scale revenue, develop high-performing teams, and put systems in place so their business can grow without chaos. Amy, great to have you on the show. Mark, thank you so much. appreciate it. I'm looking forward to this. So, um... All those bricks behind the wall. You've built this business in this life and all this strategy and who you are, you built it brick by brick. We talked for a few minutes beforehand and I just knew that this was going to be a very good and productive and lightning conversation.

1:25 So what are you out here now at this amazing place in your career where you're ready to share and help other people grow and remove the chaos? What are you building brick by brick? What are you building and helping us solve and doing this world of business for us now? Yeah, it's really great. So when I launched Vetta back in August of 24, ah I was really focused on just the basics and thought, this is what I've done my whole life. I'm going to go out and help people decide on their strategy and how they're going to grow their business. And after a number of months working in it, what I realized was that the key to growth, whether it's in sales or any other part of your organization, is the people.

2:05 And so I've really doubled down on that. I'm actually going to rebrand, it's still the Vetta in January. I'm to rebrand with that focus because it's about aligning those people and the processes if you want that growth. And so it's interesting to me as somebody who's spent their entire career, you know, 30 plus years in sales, I know that I was in the right field, but I also know that I've managed and mentored and been coworkers with a lot of people who took roles because it was what they thought they were supposed to do. And then they stayed in them and they were miserable. And you know what that does to companies? It tanks them. Because if you have the wrong people in the wrong position, you're never going to achieve your goals and you're never going to achieve your growth.

2:52 so I'm really trying to help everything like from what you said, those scale ups to those other businesses to really create that foundation. And I do that through leveraging a tool that I, a psychometric analysis tool. I do that through the strategy work that I do and then through the additional coaching that I put together and watching those companies grow and get the right process and the right people in place. That's the best. Because now you know that you're see them just as we talked about with the climbing, make that summit, right? Get to the top. So it's evident now you climb walls for fun.

3:32 I climb mountains for fun, yes. um Why do such a hard thing for fun? Uh, I, I, I've been an athlete my whole life and, um, I just, I think that challenging yourself physically is, is the best way to just create happiness inside of yourself and just those innate abilities. And I ran for a really long time and I played volleyball and I, I did all of these things. And as I got older, I wanted to do something that allowed me to embrace. how much I love to travel with adventure and with challenge.

4:14 And climbing is the best way to do that. And it's beautiful. mean, you get to the top, we were in Jackson Hole several months ago and we got to the top of Delta Lake. And you climbed a mountain and at the top, there's a huge, gorgeous, mirror-topped lake. That's something wonderful nature created. Everybody should see that. Are you climbing dangerous mountains? sometimes. Um, sometimes. that feel like the same environment that we're in in business?

4:56 Because it feels dangerous. So when I launched Vetta, I launched it because Vetta means, I used the name, it means summit in Italian. And it tied together my love of that physicality and that adventure with my Italian heritage. I know all my names sound really Italian, I got it. ah But my Italian heritage and then just that idea that I wanna help people get to the top and to grow and to succeed. For me, it was really important and personal that that's what I named it. Is getting to the top complicated? 100%.

5:37 And I think the top means something different to different people. When I started my career, for me, we talked a little bit about in the pre-discussion, I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder for a lot of reasons. And for me, success back then was overachieving goal, making a lot of money, winning all the club awards, getting the next big name on my resume. And for me now, success is living my life. the way I want to live it and being able to take and help guide other people to their success. And it's empowering to feel that way. If the Amy would have done that at 30, would you have gotten here in the same successful way or would you make an argument that you would have even compounded it more?

6:22 Because there's this idea, was it necessary that we traveled this journey to build us into this form of ourselves that can have these thoughts in this philosophy? You know, it's interesting. I don't know that I can go back and have that decision, but who I was at 30 is very different than who I am today. I mean, it just is. And I do think that those obstacles that I overcame helped me become the person that I am. But I also, think the biggest part of it, Mark, was the people I encountered, good and bad. You know, their leadership casts a shadow on you. And good leaders have stayed with me, whether I talk to them once a month, once a year, once every few years.

7:06 They've cast that shadow over me and I continue to grow from that impact. And then I think that the same is true with people outside the business world, that there were people who impacted me good and bad, but as long as I learned something from all of those interactions, then I won. And so I do think I had to go through that. kind of those obstacles and those hills. In business, everybody thinks that your trajectory just goes straight up the hill, right? They forget that you get to the top of the one hill and you gotta go back down and then you're climbing a hill isn't a straight line. You get your switchbacks, you're going up and down.

7:47 And I think that so many people from the outside look at us and they're like, well, she just keeps succeeding. They don't see where you had to falter and go back up, where you had to learn something, where you lost deals. probably have learned more from the deals that I lost and the accounts that I lost than the ones that I won. What do think you learned? What's the big idea that you learned if you could have one big takeaway even though they were all different scenarios? You have to listen to a business need and not just go in with what you think is the right solution. It is important to align to their needs, not to just what you are focused on selling or presenting. So can you do that just by engaging and asking questions and finding out from them what they need?

8:32 and having an open mind about it. ah I think that we trained young salespeople to ask a certain set of questions and that this was your questions and then this was the quantity and it became almost like a menu and that's just wrong. The successful way is to go in, do your research, understand who you're talking to. There's no reason today that we shouldn't know. million salient details about someone before we walk in the door. So do your research, but then understand that when you go in, that you should be listening more than you should be speaking. And from there, then you can determine kind of, are you the right fit and how do you put together that solution appropriately versus just sign here.

9:21 And then by the way, that's step one. Step two is the ongoing, because it is so much harder. to get a new client than it is to keep an existing client. So if you can do the right things to win the client, then continuously maintain that relationship. You'll get more business going forward. I think the thing that, so I've always loved sales, but I didn't like how most people talked and thought about sales. You know, this, you could sell ice to an Eskimo. I hated it too, because what does an Eskimo not need? Ice or snow. And so I always said, Hey, listen, I'm not interested in that, but I am interested in engaging with people because I'm a charismatic person.

10:03 like developing relationships. I like to get to know someone. And so what I. I was able at a young age and so this is what I try to help everyone do now. That's a big dog. And so, um, I love that's a big dog. I love it. This is life though, but see, this is sales. That was Brooklyn. Brooklyn says hello. Brooklyn, I guess that big bark goes with a big part of New York city. guess so. If that's where Brooklyn comes from. um of course she is. That's a very big dog that I'm glad I'm here and not there. I'd be very scared. Um, but, but this is what sales is.

10:45 Right. And you actually talked about said, get to know the person that you're going to be having a conversation with. Right. And so all the information about Amy Weber is in my head today. I put that there and I just sit down for a conversation on, let me get to know her. So what I love about sales, I don't know if the thing I have is going to be the right product market fit for that person. don't know. So how about I find out? And if for some reason I don't have the thing, I'd love to be the resource that's part of this conduit on helping them find the right thing. So one of my favorite stories, was early in my career at Cisco. ah I was visiting a large client and I walked out of that office and across the hall was a business I had never heard of.

11:35 And I just walked in and no one was at the reception desk. And because apparently I have no boundaries, I kept walking in their office. And I get back and I see on the sign on the door, it's a CEO. And I knocked on the door and I said, Hey, what do you guys do here? The guy just started laughing and he's like, who are you? And I told him, and he said, did you just come in our office? And I said, no, one was at the front. I said, I was really interested. So we started conversation. Net, net. He said, we're too small. We'll never need you. Um, but I love who I love what you just did. And he said, I'm to introduce you to the CTO.

12:15 CTO gives me the same spiel. And I said, hey, let me just come in and sit down with your team and understand your environment. And at the time they had zero Cisco in their network. Over the next 13 years that I worked there at Cisco and I was an IC and a leader, I say I did engage with that account one way or the other. When I left, they had 95 % of their business ran through Cisco across the world. And they had grown exponentially. I'm still friends with that CEO today and he had left during that time period. I'm still friends with the, the CTO and the director and the VP of, I grew up with those guys, but I listened to what they needed.

12:59 And the moral of the story was that I listened to what they needed and I was there not just when they need, when I needed a signature on a PO, but to help them build. And I was instrumental in building out what they grew this business that is now an incredibly large, incredibly successful business on. So a lot of people would have said, you're not big enough, there's no money here, I'm not going get a quick win. I was intrigued. I loved the CEO. I loved what he had to say. I loved what he did, how he built his business. And they were very young in their business when I met them. And so I take a lot of pride in that. And the irony is that we were never the cheapest, but they loved the service and the relationship that I brought to the table, when I left, and I wasn't, hadn't been their rep for years, but I was still engaged with them, when I left, people decided they weren't big enough or weren't important enough or they had bought too much.

13:57 They have now removed all of that investment. And so it goes to show that people buy from people and people engage with people. And it's about how you make them feel. And it's about the relationship because again, There was no difference in what I was doing. I was just investing in them. eh And I think that's the key to the success that I've had is that I always see those wins as an investment in those other people, not as a transaction. Was it Amy Webber taught or was she found? Well, some would say I was found. got my first technical sales job from behind the bar.

14:38 I was a bartender. I was working in tech during the day trying to learn the business, making no money. So I was tending bar at night and two guys came into the bar and sat there. They were doing a, I lovingly refer to it as a hug and chug. It was a happy hour. I worked at a high-end cigar and martini bar and they sat there for hours. The one guy was on a progressive fast, it was Lent. He was down to bread and water. Crankiest person you could ever imagine. At the end of the time, he goes to pay the bill and he puts his hand over the top of mine. He goes, what do you really do? Because I had been having a conversation with the other guy about Dec Alpha and Compact's acquisition of Dec and what that's going to do and how that's going to change the industry.

15:24 And he said, you know more than the people who work for me. So we chatted about it. He gave me an enormous tip. And his business card, he said he had six jobs open, I could have whichever one I wanted. And that was my first field sales job for a reseller in Indiana. um So they would say I was found because I went to Butler for accounting and English. I didn't ever think I was gonna go into sales or especially into tech sales until I made that decision that that's what I wanted to do. So was he the CEO or was he a VP of a department? He was the VP of Sales. Yep. So the reason why I asked that don't know the guy's name or anything. There's only those people only fit into two or three categories because here's what his job was.

16:09 Talent acquisition. Yes. That was his job. And so he was always on the lookout everywhere he went. And he did more listening that night, even though he's cranky. He did more listening so he could realize the brilliance that you had. And I, to this day, have told him how grateful I am to him for seeing that. Because I had already known that tech was what I wanted to go into. I'd made that decision. And people told me I was crazy, Mark. They were like, I mean, this is 95, 96. They're like, you're insane. And he changed my life. He changed the trajectory of my life.

16:50 And then from there, I built that career. I don't know if that experience hadn't happened, how I would have gotten to that next step, but I didn't have to because I was able to build it. How long were you there at that company? Two years. Okay. Um, did you outgrow it out? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I blow all my targets away and all the money and, and, um, I get recruited into my next position from that role. And it was the irony was that I had overachieved all of my goals.

17:31 So, you know, what they were paying me, even with like blowing my number away, the next job I got was for a manufacturer. And when they gave me my offer. my base salary was more than my total comp was at the last job. And I, well, hold on, I stayed very, very uh calm. And I said, I don't know, the base looks a little low. And they gave me even more. And I went home that day and just laughed and I'm like. guess this is how life is gonna go. Yeah. What's the lesson you learned that day? In that moment? that you don't get anything unless you ask for it, number one.

18:15 But what I learned from behind the bar was that you never know when you're going to meet somebody that couldn't be impactful in your life. And then when I, you know, I used that experience to grow and learn and to really understand technology and to really understand the sales process and to just soak up as much I would go and sit down with different people in different groups and just understand what they were doing. And I took that to the next level and again and again. And so for me, I think that I have to learn something all the time.

18:56 Even now, even at the age I'm at, even with the success that I've had, there's always something new to learn. And you have to be open to that. this approach to engaging with human beings, we just call it sales. It's just engaging with human beings and finding out what they need and helping them provide something they need. Is this novel as you go out here in the world and you're consulting and helping people fix their businesses and grow? These things we're talking about seem so natural to you and to me, and this isn't from a condescending perspective, but I've realized what you're talking about in my experience over 25 years in sales, this is it. Does this seem to be novel now? Heh I think that...

19:40 And I think that when we first started out in the sales world, we were training people that there was a playbook and a script they had to follow. And that that was a mistake because it was always about the relationship. And so those of us that understood that taught that to ourselves. And then we pivoted and we said, we need to understand what we're selling and the value, but we need to understand the people and the relationship and make sure that what we're providing to them is actually important and valuable and why. and then how you follow up on it. Today, with all the new technology, you know, we talk about AI, right? AI is going to give us our most valuable asset back time, because it's going to automate all of those menial processes and allow us to kind of speed through things.

20:26 And so now it's giving us time back. And from that time, we should really be shifting to the experience culture. And so what you provide and what I provide and what the good, what the people who are going to win. They're going to provide experience, whether that's in a restaurant, whether that's in a uh sales situation, whether that's in a artistic endeavor. It's the experience. It's that experience culture and how you make people feel appreciated, heard, understood. I was in Miami last weekend and I had the most amazing dinner. And it wasn't just because the food was extraordinary. It was because the experience was so elevated.

21:08 I, at one point, it was uh the din in Miami. It's a little Japanese restaurant. You can only have 16 people in the whole place. And at one point I said, I'm a little chilly. Within moments, a cashmere pashmina was put over my shoulders while I was eating. And I didn't even think I said it that loud. I definitely didn't say it to anyone besides my significant other. And that moment completely is the perfect example of the experience culture. Right? Because I'll never forget that.

21:49 What is the lesson that you would teach in that, that restaurant executed? that they, the lesson there is that again, they were attuned to what was going on, not just what they thought they needed to provide, but what people needed at that moment. So they weren't waiting for you to ask for your water to be refilled or to wipe off, you know, where they had just placed uh another piece of uh fish or to drape a pagemene over your shoulders, that they were so attuned to your They were empathetic and they understood what your needs were maybe before you even did.

22:31 And that's all about that relationship and that experience and that being open to what's going on around you instead of being so myopic and thinking, this is what I have to do today and here's the checklist that I need to do while I'm in front of a client or a person or a friend. You know, I think it's interesting, you can tell when you're talking to somebody, and they're not really listening. They have already determined their next thought and they're just waiting for their chance to be able to say it. Right? Yeah, that's bad sales. That's bad sales. That's bad That's bad relationships. That's just bad And I think we've all probably fought it at times to not be so dang narcissistic, To say, hey, listen, if you want to have anything successful in life, somehow it's weird.

23:16 I'm trying to find the way to share this with people For it to be about you, it actually has to be about them. Yes. 100%. just doesn't seem like it goes together, but that's the algorithm I figured out. For it to be about me and for me to win, it has to be more about you. It's exactly right. And that's what I was telling you, you know, it's... And by the way, we can't do that for everybody. um but you can do it for every situation. might not, and not everybody might not be receiving of it. They might not be in a place, right?

23:57 But you have to do it for everyone to have a chance at landing the clients in the engagement and relationships you want. Exactly. And, but that's how, that's, that's how I've always gone about it. And I think that's, that's the key to the success. People ask me, how did you work for so many great companies? How did you achieve so much success? How were you always over your numbers? And I said, I cared about every single client I went into. I didn't, I cared about them. I didn't like everybody. And, but I cared that what I was doing was going to provide them value and they My goal was to always make them look good.

24:37 Let them win, man. Let them win. see, we've read these books. think what Dale Carnegie's, to Win Friends and Influence People. It's even when you win, you don't win. They have to win. Put your ego in check. Let them win. Because when they win and you're associated with it, you're winning. Well, quote, I quote, ego is the enemy all the time because I just, know, I when I was younger, I was so driven to get out of my circumstances and to prove that I was better than what I had started out. And I had that chip on my shoulder.

25:18 And as I matured and as I got older and as I found peace and success, it allowed me to say, I want everybody to be happy, but that doesn't mean I have to be a part of the situation. I want everybody to be successful, but I don't have to be a part of it. My ego is just not that big. I gained so much happiness helping other people succeed. And if that means that I get to be successful too and get to live my life the way I want to, more power to it. That's fabulous. You're a win on every front. So I want to get into about in this new environment of AI, combined with, still feel like it's the old world traits of getting face to face and handshakes human to human.

26:02 But, I want to hand it to you and say, Hey, how are you finding ways to cut through all of the chaos and all the drama and what the world's throwing at us? And, I'm going to lay this down to say that. I don't really believe the basic principles of human engagement and winning in sales and leading organizational people. I don't think it's changed. I found myself last night, we just have new information, new technologies, maybe we can become more efficient. But I found myself last night, we had a career night. So as we recruit and build this real estate company that I lead, have great people in the company. They build a lot of platforms for me. They're like, just show up here at this moment. You get that seat, you get this clicker and just crush and do what you do. Paint the vision. And so I'm fortunate to be around just so many great people now that set that platform for me.

26:48 but I told everyone last night, I said, I was just reflecting when I started I have different companies, but the company that built it all was this real estate brokerage, this agency. It's where it started 18 years ago. And I said, the first person I hired, not everybody who started here is still here by far, but the first person that I hired is still here and he's pretty much retired. And he happened to be in yesterday. He doesn't come in a ton anymore. And I ran into him and I had one of these moments that we were reflecting on the past, you know, that those people do walking to school in the snow to But me and him, not for anyone else. And I said, Roy, isn't it funny that 17 years ago, a year after I recruited you, you had a day where you closed five properties, five homes on the same day.

27:38 And I said, and I only ever beat that by one and I only closed six. And I said, there's actually no one in our entire company, hundreds of people, these thousands and thousands of transactions a year now. Not one person has replicated that five in one day and six in one day. That's actually a really big feat being in our field. And I said, isn't it amazing? We didn't have a sign on the building. We didn't have any marketing. We didn't have a website. We had none of the tools that we have now. And I said, to be honest with you, man, it puts a smile on my face to think about the hustle and the grind and what we did back then to make that happen. If people still took the same approach and still did the same thing today. They would win the same way.

28:19 100%. So number one, what you said, the hustle and the grind, you can't teach grit. You either have it or you don't. And I think it's really sad that some of the choices that we've made almost were making people who are gritty seem wrong or when they're growing up, know. Adding grit just means that you're gonna sustain and be able to go out there and overcome obstacles. And by the way, those obstacles, like I said, are the ways that I developed who I was. So it's okay. We don't allow our children to fail enough.

29:04 Or we don't... We don't share our warts and our failures. Social media is a necessary evil, but it's probably one of the worst things that's happened because people only post that sanitized version of themselves, that perfect version. And so it's unrealistic with the filters and all of the things that people think that that's real life and it's just not. The real life is the dirty and the gritty and the getting it out there. By the way, I spent 30 years in tech. I still don't know how to filter a picture, just so we're clear. I have no idea. Couldn't do it if I tried.

29:45 ah Have no intention of doing it. But it's interesting. So I have said to people through the years that when I, I love coaching people, love it. And I coached as a volleyball, I was a volleyball coach in my 20s. Again, when we first met, I told you I'm five foot four. So I would coach these girls and they would come out onto the court and They would make fun of me because they were all taller than I was until I hit balls at them. And then they decided that coach was really strong and they shouldn't make fun of her. They also had to end every practice running sprints against me. And the reason I did it wasn't because I wanted to prove that I was faster, stronger, had more endurance.

30:26 Volleyball tournaments, especially club ball tournaments, are so long, I wanted them to be conditioned. And so I knew that how many times they were going to have to run sprints in order to beat me. And all I was doing was conditioning them. We'd go into these tournaments and they were prepared. So I was teaching them to be gritty for preparation. Secondly, I was proving to them that if they practiced and learned something, that they would be great, right? I was never gonna be the best player on the team. I'm far too small, but I was gonna have the best attitude and was probably gonna work the hardest because I wanted it. And again, you can't teach that.

31:07 Every year I coached, I had to kick one kid off the team. Sometimes the best player because they wouldn't show up for practice or because they'd have an attitude. One threw a ball at my face, little things. ah But they weren't coachable. They might've had innate natural talent, but they were never going to be able to do anything with that talent because they were told that they were amazing and that they should be put on a pedestal and they had nothing left to learn. We all, no matter how much success we've achieved, Those six deals, you didn't put yourself on a pedestal. You probably said, when can I get seven in one day? Right? And that's really hard to do.

31:47 Now, you're 200 % of quota. want to make 300 % of quota. You make $500,000 in a year. want a million dollars. mean, whatever it is, but it's, it's that grit and it's that drive and it's that intention. And it takes hard work to do that. And I get. I see people, especially some of the people who are like, I just don't want to work that hard. That's fine. But don't go into certain fields then. Because you'll never find the success that you think that you deserve if you're not willing to put the effort into though. And then can I be a little mean as well and say you better reduce the goals and the vision you have for your life as well?

32:30 You know, I didn't get on an airplane until I was 19. I took my first flight at 19 years old. I flew out to Aspen, Colorado. It the first mountain I ever climbed. I have now traveled all over the world and I love it. It energizes me, it excites me. And my mom's still never been on an airplane, ever. That just wasn't, her world was really small. And I wanted so much more than that. So if this is tough to train, if grit, if you just can't train it.

33:10 And the majority of the world doesn't have it. They haven't learned the skill. They haven't been forced to, because as you spoke to the way that we're growing up now, and I've said this multiple times, I think it's admirable about what parents are trying to do. It seems like their intention. Here's what you hear is that, I just want their life to be better than mine. And I don't want them to have as much of struggle as me. I don't want it to be as hard as mine. And so I think that's admirable because it means that they care. But then my instant response, I've gotten better until it's my moment to respond. And I'd say, but isn't that how you became who you are? How are they going to become the best version of themselves if it's always easy?

33:55 And I think that the key to that, and look, I wasn't perfect and I made plenty of missteps as a single mom with my son. And I had to understand that he was different than me and his core identity was different than mine. So he was never gonna be as intense as I am. But I was really honest with him. And so even though I gave him a lot of experiences and a lot of opportunities, I also was honest with him about my expectations. And I discussed with him when he faltered from those that I was disappointed and there were ramifications to it.

34:38 Right. And I think that's, that's all things that people. We have a really strong relationship now, but there were some times that it was difficult and it should be. When somebody is 16 and they're like, my mom's my best friend. Well, then she's not punishing you enough for the things. And my favorite is when everybody's like, my child is perfect. By the way, no child is perfect. None, zero, zilch. They might be good, but they're not, you and it might be less trouble than somebody else, but you also don't know what's going on behind the scenes. And so I don't. I don't think you can teach grit. What I do think you can teach is accountability and that you can set expectations and hold people to those expectations.

35:29 And then they're going to have to determine how they achieve that. And if they don't have the grit, then they are going to have to change either their goals, their dreams or their lifestyle because they're probably not going to achieve exactly what they thought they were going to. And I agree with you, I think there are a lot of middlers in the world. There a lot of people who are just happy hanging out in the middle. And I want to help people be extraordinary. Yeah, if I thought they were happy, I'd leave them alone. I don't see that. I don't hear it from them. I don't see it. I'm not saying I want to fight for it yet, but I think the majority of people deep inside, they want better.

36:12 Well, and I think that they're afraid. 85 % of millennials will tell you that they're in the wrong job, but they're afraid to change jobs. They're afraid because of they've built their career here, they may not make enough money, or they won't be good at the next thing. We have people who we hire into roles based upon their resume or the companies that they've worked for. They were never good at the previous job, but because they've worked for all of these big companies. They just keep getting jobs and it just is a cycle. They work there six to 18 months. They don't do great. They're either middle of the pack or below the pack and then they go get the next job. And we have to change that. We have to, that's why I said I'm so passionate with companies saying, I don't care what their resume says.

36:54 I care who they are and that we're getting the right people. And the way that we have brought people into organizations is, oh, they, they had to be successful. They worked for XYZ company. That doesn't mean anything. 1 % of your past success will determine your future success. I want to know who you are today, what your story is, and where you want to go from there. ah And then how we're going to align that. also think that we as companies are insane when we write our job descriptions. Because we'll say, I want to... hate job descriptions.

37:35 I hate them. You know, I want this driven self-starter that's a team player. Those are two different people, by the way. You know, if you want to just be a part of a team and be collaborative all the time, you are not a self-starter driven. If you want the person who's out there that's going to be hard charging, that cares about hitting all the goals, but doesn't really care about what the rest of the team is doing, that is a different person than this person over here that doesn't mean that they're anti-social or that they can't collaborate with somebody, but that's not what drives them. And so, yeah, it's just bad from that standpoint. And then I think that because we've gotten to the point where we're just allowing mediocrity, we're just like, it's okay, it's fine.

38:26 Because it's hard, it's hard once that's set in, it's hard to change that. really hard to change that. you let a, if you let a, in ourselves and our lives, if we, in the, if I looked at my past, the things that I've done and had a mediocre outcome, um, that I've accepted for myself. once you let that set in, it's really hard to convince yourself to change and to do it differently. It really is because it's like you, were the person that allowed to happen in the first place. And so I have to become of a different human. have to have a different mindset. I have to awaken in some way. laugh because I work out every day. And people are like, oh, you're so fit.

39:06 I'm like, I work out every day. You can't go to the gym once a month and expect to meet your goals. ah You can't decide that you're going to eat healthy today. And the other 29 days of the month, you're going to crush a smash burger every day. The next piece that is I've been telling people a lot of times is that, Hey, listen, this isn't a judgment conversation. No, just want us to accept what the rules are. This game that we're playing. The rules are if you want a different outcome, you have to do different things. If you're willing to accept the current outcome you have, I won't give you any grief and I'm not going to judge you for it, but you knew except that's the outcome that you're going to continue to have.

39:55 That's exactly right. What do you consistently find yourself at Vetta? What are you, what's really your wheelhouse? When you're hired in your mind, here's my ideal client, who's here I'm going to find now. um What do you, what do you do? What do you do on a daily basis consistently that you're really good at? Determining that, it's, Brooklyn says hello again, by the way. Hey, with them, we are, I thought at the end, I'm actually, I'll say it now. I'm going to say thank you for letting us to get to meet Brooklyn. You coming up? She's like, I'm trying to come up. Um.

40:36 Like I said, I go in, I can listen to a business need, for me, it is about the people and helping them figure out, realigning the people, pulling the best out of the people, figuring out how to manage the people accordingly. Because I don't think other companies are doing that. I think they're going in and saying, I'm oh going to give you a strategy, and if you implement this strategy, it's going to work. That's only true if the people you have in place can execute that strategy. And so I had a client that I was talking to and I assessed their entire team and kind of what they wanted in their key roles.

41:18 And they had this, a couple of outliers. And I said, these people are probably great employees, but you've got them in the wrong roles in the organization. And if you shift them, if they're willing to be shifted, then You can bring in the people who are going to help you reach the other sales goals by moving these people to operations or to customer success or enablement. And if they're not, then you need to make the hard decision to let them go because right now they're the anchors and you're only as strong as your weakest player. Mm. So true. I could sit here and talk to you forever. And if we got to know Brooklyn, I don't know, maybe we actually would.

41:59 It'd like, come on, cause she's the size of a human. She is a baby. Did you not see she wants to be a lap dog? So we're clear, she has an Italian middle name. She's Brooklyn Gianna, so. Of course she is. Everything in your life. um They're going to yell at me to get off of here, but here's what's amazing. Are you, everything in your life is Italian except for your name. Yes. So my grandfather, here's the story. My grandfather came over from Italy, could not find work. At 17, he forged his birth certificate and made himself Charles Gregory and joined the fire department in Indianapolis.

42:39 He was the chief of the Indianapolis fire department on a fake ID. Well, he wouldn't get away with that in 2025. So De Gligorio is my original Italian name and if I had that it would have still been that. That's how that came about. anyway. Thank you for joining us. This is good. hope you're not too far away. I think that this is something if I ever get a chance to meet you in person, if you find a way to be in studio, if you find a way down here to Cincinnati, um I think this is just 10 % on what a full 100 % conversation could be. I'd love to come down. Just tell me when and we'll schedule it out and and and figure out Yeah, different things happen in studio.

43:23 It's just, it's different and we can go deeper and talk about these ideas on truly, this is the foundation that Mark and Amy think people can be a lot better to fulfill their potential. ah 100%. I would love to continue the conversation with you. think that would be amazing. Thank you for joining. You can't teach grit. You either have it or you don't. What I do think you can teach is accountability.

44:13 Today on the Necessary Entrepreneurial, welcome back. am pumped to be joined by Amy Gregory Weber. Better watch out when they bring the three names, it's about to get serious. But Amy Weber, founder of Vetta Sales Consulting. Amy spent decades leading sales teams at companies like Microsoft and Twilio, and now she helps entrepreneurs and growing businesses build smarter data-driven sales strategies. She's all about helping founders scale revenue, develop high-performing teams, and put systems in place so their business can grow without chaos. Amy, great to have you on the show. Mark, thank you so much. appreciate it. I'm looking forward to this. So, um...

44:55 All those bricks behind the wall. You've built this business in this life and all this strategy and who you are, you built it brick by brick. We talked for a few minutes beforehand and I just knew that this was going to be a very good and productive and lightning conversation. So what are you out here now at this amazing place in your career where you're ready to share and help other people grow and remove the chaos? What are you building brick by brick? What are you building and helping us solve and doing this world of business for us now? Yeah, it's really great. So when I launched Vetta back in August of 24, ah I was really focused on just the basics and thought, this is what I've done my whole life. I'm going to go out and help people decide on their strategy and how they're going to grow their business.

45:39 And after a number of months working in it, what I realized was that the key to growth, whether it's in sales or any other part of your organization, is the people. And so I've really doubled down on that. I'm actually going to rebrand, it's still the Vetta in January. I'm to rebrand with that focus because it's about aligning those people and the processes if you want that growth. And so it's interesting to me as somebody who's spent their entire career, you know, 30 plus years in sales, I know that I was in the right field, but I also know that I've managed and mentored and been coworkers with a lot of people who took roles because it was what they thought they were supposed to do.

46:22 And then they stayed in them and they were miserable. And you know what that does to companies? It tanks them. Because if you have the wrong people in the wrong position, you're never going to achieve your goals and you're never going to achieve your growth. so I'm really trying to help everything like from what you said, those scale ups to those other businesses to really create that foundation. And I do that through leveraging a tool that I, a psychometric analysis tool. I do that through the strategy work that I do and then through the additional coaching that I put together and watching those companies grow and get the right process and the right people in place. That's the best. Because now you know that you're see them just as we talked about with the climbing, make that summit, right?

47:10 Get to the top. So it's evident now you climb walls for fun. I climb mountains for fun, yes. um Why do such a hard thing for fun? Uh, I, I, I've been an athlete my whole life and, um, I just, I think that challenging yourself physically is, is the best way to just create happiness inside of yourself and just those innate abilities. And I ran for a really long time and I played volleyball and I, I did all of these things.

47:50 And as I got older, I wanted to do something that allowed me to embrace. how much I love to travel with adventure and with challenge. And climbing is the best way to do that. And it's beautiful. mean, you get to the top, we were in Jackson Hole several months ago and we got to the top of Delta Lake. And you climbed a mountain and at the top, there's a huge, gorgeous, mirror-topped lake. That's something wonderful nature created. Everybody should see that. Are you climbing dangerous mountains?

48:31 sometimes. Um, sometimes. that feel like the same environment that we're in in business? Because it feels dangerous. So when I launched Vetta, I launched it because Vetta means, I used the name, it means summit in Italian. And it tied together my love of that physicality and that adventure with my Italian heritage. I know all my names sound really Italian, I got it. ah But my Italian heritage and then just that idea that I wanna help people get to the top and to grow and to succeed.

49:13 For me, it was really important and personal that that's what I named it. Is getting to the top complicated? 100%. And I think the top means something different to different people. When I started my career, for me, we talked a little bit about in the pre-discussion, I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder for a lot of reasons. And for me, success back then was overachieving goal, making a lot of money, winning all the club awards, getting the next big name on my resume. And for me now, success is living my life. the way I want to live it and being able to take and help guide other people to their success.

49:55 And it's empowering to feel that way. If the Amy would have done that at 30, would you have gotten here in the same successful way or would you make an argument that you would have even compounded it more? Because there's this idea, was it necessary that we traveled this journey to build us into this form of ourselves that can have these thoughts in this philosophy? You know, it's interesting. I don't know that I can go back and have that decision, but who I was at 30 is very different than who I am today. I mean, it just is. And I do think that those obstacles that I overcame helped me become the person that I am. But I also, think the biggest part of it, Mark, was the people I encountered, good and bad.

50:39 You know, their leadership casts a shadow on you. And good leaders have stayed with me, whether I talk to them once a month, once a year, once every few years. They've cast that shadow over me and I continue to grow from that impact. And then I think that the same is true with people outside the business world, that there were people who impacted me good and bad, but as long as I learned something from all of those interactions, then I won. And so I do think I had to go through that. kind of those obstacles and those hills. In business, everybody thinks that your trajectory just goes straight up the hill, right?

51:23 They forget that you get to the top of the one hill and you gotta go back down and then you're climbing a hill isn't a straight line. You get your switchbacks, you're going up and down. And I think that so many people from the outside look at us and they're like, well, she just keeps succeeding. They don't see where you had to falter and go back up, where you had to learn something, where you lost deals. probably have learned more from the deals that I lost and the accounts that I lost than the ones that I won. What do think you learned? What's the big idea that you learned if you could have one big takeaway even though they were all different scenarios? You have to listen to a business need and not just go in with what you think is the right solution.

52:03 It is important to align to their needs, not to just what you are focused on selling or presenting. So can you do that just by engaging and asking questions and finding out from them what they need? and having an open mind about it. ah I think that we trained young salespeople to ask a certain set of questions and that this was your questions and then this was the quantity and it became almost like a menu and that's just wrong. The successful way is to go in, do your research, understand who you're talking to. There's no reason today that we shouldn't know.

52:43 million salient details about someone before we walk in the door. So do your research, but then understand that when you go in, that you should be listening more than you should be speaking. And from there, then you can determine kind of, are you the right fit and how do you put together that solution appropriately versus just sign here. And then by the way, that's step one. Step two is the ongoing, because it is so much harder. to get a new client than it is to keep an existing client. So if you can do the right things to win the client, then continuously maintain that relationship. You'll get more business going forward.

53:24 I think the thing that, so I've always loved sales, but I didn't like how most people talked and thought about sales. You know, this, you could sell ice to an Eskimo. I hated it too, because what does an Eskimo not need? Ice or snow. And so I always said, Hey, listen, I'm not interested in that, but I am interested in engaging with people because I'm a charismatic person. like developing relationships. I like to get to know someone. And so what I. I was able at a young age and so this is what I try to help everyone do now. That's a big dog. And so, um, I love that's a big dog.

54:04 I love it. This is life though, but see, this is sales. That was Brooklyn. Brooklyn says hello. Brooklyn, I guess that big bark goes with a big part of New York city. guess so. If that's where Brooklyn comes from. um of course she is. That's a very big dog that I'm glad I'm here and not there. I'd be very scared. Um, but, but this is what sales is. Right. And you actually talked about said, get to know the person that you're going to be having a conversation with. Right. And so all the information about Amy Weber is in my head today. I put that there and I just sit down for a conversation on, let me get to know her. So what I love about sales, I don't know if the thing I have is going to be the right product market fit for that person.

54:50 don't know. So how about I find out? And if for some reason I don't have the thing, I'd love to be the resource that's part of this conduit on helping them find the right thing. So one of my favorite stories, was early in my career at Cisco. ah I was visiting a large client and I walked out of that office and across the hall was a business I had never heard of. And I just walked in and no one was at the reception desk. And because apparently I have no boundaries, I kept walking in their office.

55:30 And I get back and I see on the sign on the door, it's a CEO. And I knocked on the door and I said, Hey, what do you guys do here? The guy just started laughing and he's like, who are you? And I told him, and he said, did you just come in our office? And I said, no, one was at the front. I said, I was really interested. So we started conversation. Net, net. He said, we're too small. We'll never need you. Um, but I love who I love what you just did. And he said, I'm to introduce you to the CTO. CTO gives me the same spiel. And I said, hey, let me just come in and sit down with your team and understand your environment. And at the time they had zero Cisco in their network.

56:11 Over the next 13 years that I worked there at Cisco and I was an IC and a leader, I say I did engage with that account one way or the other. When I left, they had 95 % of their business ran through Cisco across the world. And they had grown exponentially. I'm still friends with that CEO today and he had left during that time period. I'm still friends with the, the CTO and the director and the VP of, I grew up with those guys, but I listened to what they needed. And the moral of the story was that I listened to what they needed and I was there not just when they need, when I needed a signature on a PO, but to help them build.

56:53 And I was instrumental in building out what they grew this business that is now an incredibly large, incredibly successful business on. So a lot of people would have said, you're not big enough, there's no money here, I'm not going get a quick win. I was intrigued. I loved the CEO. I loved what he had to say. I loved what he did, how he built his business. And they were very young in their business when I met them. And so I take a lot of pride in that. And the irony is that we were never the cheapest, but they loved the service and the relationship that I brought to the table, when I left, and I wasn't, hadn't been their rep for years, but I was still engaged with them, when I left, people decided they weren't big enough or weren't important enough or they had bought too much.

57:41 They have now removed all of that investment. And so it goes to show that people buy from people and people engage with people. And it's about how you make them feel. And it's about the relationship because again, There was no difference in what I was doing. I was just investing in them. eh And I think that's the key to the success that I've had is that I always see those wins as an investment in those other people, not as a transaction. Was it Amy Webber taught or was she found? Well, some would say I was found. got my first technical sales job from behind the bar.

58:23 I was a bartender. I was working in tech during the day trying to learn the business, making no money. So I was tending bar at night and two guys came into the bar and sat there. They were doing a, I lovingly refer to it as a hug and chug. It was a happy hour. I worked at a high-end cigar and martini bar and they sat there for hours. The one guy was on a progressive fast, it was Lent. He was down to bread and water. Crankiest person you could ever imagine. At the end of the time, he goes to pay the bill and he puts his hand over the top of mine. He goes, what do you really do? Because I had been having a conversation with the other guy about Dec Alpha and Compact's acquisition of Dec and what that's going to do and how that's going to change the industry.

59:08 And he said, you know more than the people who work for me. So we chatted about it. He gave me an enormous tip. And his business card, he said he had six jobs open, I could have whichever one I wanted. And that was my first field sales job for a reseller in Indiana. um So they would say I was found because I went to Butler for accounting and English. I didn't ever think I was gonna go into sales or especially into tech sales until I made that decision that that's what I wanted to do. So was he the CEO or was he a VP of a department? He was the VP of Sales. Yep. So the reason why I asked that don't know the guy's name or anything. There's only those people only fit into two or three categories because here's what his job was.

59:54 Talent acquisition. Yes. That was his job. And so he was always on the lookout everywhere he went. And he did more listening that night, even though he's cranky. He did more listening so he could realize the brilliance that you had. And I, to this day, have told him how grateful I am to him for seeing that. Because I had already known that tech was what I wanted to go into. I'd made that decision. And people told me I was crazy, Mark. They were like, I mean, this is 95, 96. They're like, you're insane. And he changed my life. He changed the trajectory of my life.

1:00:34 And then from there, I built that career. I don't know if that experience hadn't happened, how I would have gotten to that next step, but I didn't have to because I was able to build it. How long were you there at that company? Two years. Okay. Um, did you outgrow it out? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I blow all my targets away and all the money and, and, um, I get recruited into my next position from that role. And it was the irony was that I had overachieved all of my goals.

1:01:15 So, you know, what they were paying me, even with like blowing my number away, the next job I got was for a manufacturer. And when they gave me my offer. my base salary was more than my total comp was at the last job. And I, well, hold on, I stayed very, very uh calm. And I said, I don't know, the base looks a little low. And they gave me even more. And I went home that day and just laughed and I'm like. guess this is how life is gonna go. Yeah. What's the lesson you learned that day? In that moment? that you don't get anything unless you ask for it, number one.

1:01:59 But what I learned from behind the bar was that you never know when you're going to meet somebody that couldn't be impactful in your life. And then when I, you know, I used that experience to grow and learn and to really understand technology and to really understand the sales process and to just soak up as much I would go and sit down with different people in different groups and just understand what they were doing. And I took that to the next level and again and again. And so for me, I think that I have to learn something all the time.

1:02:41 Even now, even at the age I'm at, even with the success that I've had, there's always something new to learn. And you have to be open to that. this approach to engaging with human beings, we just call it sales. It's just engaging with human beings and finding out what they need and helping them provide something they need. Is this novel as you go out here in the world and you're consulting and helping people fix their businesses and grow? These things we're talking about seem so natural to you and to me, and this isn't from a condescending perspective, but I've realized what you're talking about in my experience over 25 years in sales, this is it. Does this seem to be novel now? Heh I think that...

1:03:25 And I think that when we first started out in the sales world, we were training people that there was a playbook and a script they had to follow. And that that was a mistake because it was always about the relationship. And so those of us that understood that taught that to ourselves. And then we pivoted and we said, we need to understand what we're selling and the value, but we need to understand the people and the relationship and make sure that what we're providing to them is actually important and valuable and why. and then how you follow up on it. Today, with all the new technology, you know, we talk about AI, right? AI is going to give us our most valuable asset back time, because it's going to automate all of those menial processes and allow us to kind of speed through things.

1:04:11 And so now it's giving us time back. And from that time, we should really be shifting to the experience culture. And so what you provide and what I provide and what the good, what the people who are going to win. They're going to provide experience, whether that's in a restaurant, whether that's in a uh sales situation, whether that's in a artistic endeavor. It's the experience. It's that experience culture and how you make people feel appreciated, heard, understood. I was in Miami last weekend and I had the most amazing dinner. And it wasn't just because the food was extraordinary. It was because the experience was so elevated.

1:04:53 I, at one point, it was uh the din in Miami. It's a little Japanese restaurant. You can only have 16 people in the whole place. And at one point I said, I'm a little chilly. Within moments, a cashmere pashmina was put over my shoulders while I was eating. And I didn't even think I said it that loud. I definitely didn't say it to anyone besides my significant other. And that moment completely is the perfect example of the experience culture. Right? Because I'll never forget that.

1:05:33 What is the lesson that you would teach in that, that restaurant executed? that they, the lesson there is that again, they were attuned to what was going on, not just what they thought they needed to provide, but what people needed at that moment. So they weren't waiting for you to ask for your water to be refilled or to wipe off, you know, where they had just placed uh another piece of uh fish or to drape a pagemene over your shoulders, that they were so attuned to your They were empathetic and they understood what your needs were maybe before you even did.

1:06:16 And that's all about that relationship and that experience and that being open to what's going on around you instead of being so myopic and thinking, this is what I have to do today and here's the checklist that I need to do while I'm in front of a client or a person or a friend. You know, I think it's interesting, you can tell when you're talking to somebody, and they're not really listening. They have already determined their next thought and they're just waiting for their chance to be able to say it. Right? Yeah, that's bad sales. That's bad sales. That's bad friendship. That's bad relationships. That's just bad engaging at all. And I think we've all probably fought it at times to not be so dang narcissistic, right?

1:07:01 To say, hey, listen, if you want to have anything successful in life, somehow it's weird. I'm trying to find the way to share this with people I'm teaching. For it to be about you, it actually has to be about them. Yes. 100%. just doesn't seem like it goes together, but that's the algorithm I figured out. For it to be about me and for me to win, it has to be more about you. It's exactly right. And that's what I was telling you, you know, it's... And by the way, we can't do that for everybody. um but you can do it for every situation.

1:07:43 might not, and not everybody might not be receiving of it. They might not be in a place, right? But you have to do it for everyone to have a chance at landing the clients in the engagement and relationships you want. Exactly. And, but that's how, that's, that's how I've always gone about it. And I think that's, that's the key to the success. People ask me, how did you work for so many great companies? How did you achieve so much success? How were you always over your numbers? And I said, I cared about every single client I went into. I didn't, I cared about them. I didn't like everybody. And, but I cared that what I was doing was going to provide them value and they My goal was to always make them look good.

1:08:27 Let them win, man. Let them win. see, we've read these books. think what Dale Carnegie's, to Win Friends and Influence People. It's even when you win, you don't win. They have to win. Put your ego in check. Let them win. Because when they win and you're associated with it, you're winning. Well, quote, I quote, ego is the enemy all the time because I just, know, I when I was younger, I was so driven to get out of my circumstances and to prove that I was better than what I had started out. And I had that chip on my shoulder.

1:09:07 And as I matured and as I got older and as I found peace and success, it allowed me to say, I want everybody to be happy, but that doesn't mean I have to be a part of the situation. I want everybody to be successful, but I don't have to be a part of it. My ego is just not that big. I gained so much happiness helping other people succeed. And if that means that I get to be successful too and get to live my life the way I want to, more power to it. That's fabulous. You're a win on every front. So I want to get into about in this new environment of AI, combined with, still feel like it's the old world traits of getting face to face and handshakes human to human.

1:09:52 But, I want to hand it to you and say, Hey, how are you finding ways to cut through all of the chaos and all the drama and what the world's throwing at us? And, I'm going to lay this down to say that. I don't really believe the basic principles of human engagement and winning in sales and leading organizational people. I don't think it's changed. I found myself last night, we just have new information, new technologies, maybe we can become more efficient. But I found myself last night, we had a career night. So as we recruit and build this real estate company that I lead, have great people in the company. They build a lot of platforms for me. They're like, just show up here at this moment. You get that seat, you get this clicker and just crush and do what you do. Paint the vision. And so I'm fortunate to be around just so many great people now that set that platform for me.

1:10:37 but I told everyone last night, I said, I was just reflecting when I started I have different companies, but the company that built it all was this real estate brokerage, this agency. It's where it started 18 years ago. And I said, the first person I hired, not everybody who started here is still here by far, but the first person that I hired is still here and he's pretty much retired. And he happened to be in yesterday. He doesn't come in a ton anymore. And I ran into him and I had one of these moments that we were reflecting on the past, you know, that those people do walking to school in the snow to But me and him, not for anyone else. And I said, Roy, isn't it funny that 17 years ago, a year after I recruited you, you had a day where you closed five properties, five homes on the same day.

1:11:27 And I said, and I only ever beat that by one and I only closed six. And I said, there's actually no one in our entire company, hundreds of people, these thousands and thousands of transactions a year now. Not one person has replicated that five in one day and six in one day. That's actually a really big feat being in our field. And I said, isn't it amazing? We didn't have a sign on the building. We didn't have any marketing. We didn't have a website. We had none of the tools that we have now. And I said, to be honest with you, man, it puts a smile on my face to think about the hustle and the grind and what we did back then to make that happen. If people still took the same approach and still did the same thing today. They would win the same way.

1:12:09 100%. So number one, what you said, the hustle and the grind, you can't teach grit. You either have it or you don't. And I think it's really sad that some of the choices that we've made almost were making people who are gritty seem wrong or when they're growing up, know. Adding grit just means that you're gonna sustain and be able to go out there and overcome obstacles. And by the way, those obstacles, like I said, are the ways that I developed who I was. So it's okay. We don't allow our children to fail enough.

1:12:54 Or we don't... We don't share our warts and our failures. Social media is a necessary evil, but it's probably one of the worst things that's happened because people only post that sanitized version of themselves, that perfect version. And so it's unrealistic with the filters and all of the things that people think that that's real life and it's just not. The real life is the dirty and the gritty and the getting it out there. By the way, I spent 30 years in tech. I still don't know how to filter a picture, just so we're clear. I have no idea. Couldn't do it if I tried.

1:13:34 ah Have no intention of doing it. But it's interesting. So I have said to people through the years that when I, I love coaching people, love it. And I coached as a volleyball, I was a volleyball coach in my 20s. Again, when we first met, I told you I'm five foot four. So I would coach these girls and they would come out onto the court and They would make fun of me because they were all taller than I was until I hit balls at them. And then they decided that coach was really strong and they shouldn't make fun of her. They also had to end every practice running sprints against me. And the reason I did it wasn't because I wanted to prove that I was faster, stronger, had more endurance.

1:14:15 Volleyball tournaments, especially club ball tournaments, are so long, I wanted them to be conditioned. And so I knew that how many times they were going to have to run sprints in order to beat me. And all I was doing was conditioning them. We'd go into these tournaments and they were prepared. So I was teaching them to be gritty for preparation. Secondly, I was proving to them that if they practiced and learned something, that they would be great, right? I was never gonna be the best player on the team. I'm far too small, but I was gonna have the best attitude and was probably gonna work the hardest because I wanted it. And again, you can't teach that.

1:14:56 Every year I coached, I had to kick one kid off the team. Sometimes the best player because they wouldn't show up for practice or because they'd have an attitude. One threw a ball at my face, little things. ah But they weren't coachable. They might've had innate natural talent, but they were never going to be able to do anything with that talent because they were told that they were amazing and that they should be put on a pedestal and they had nothing left to learn. We all, no matter how much success we've achieved, Those six deals, you didn't put yourself on a pedestal. You probably said, when can I get seven in one day? Right? And that's really hard to do.

1:15:37 Now, you're 200 % of quota. want to make 300 % of quota. You make $500,000 in a year. want a million dollars. mean, whatever it is, but it's, it's that grit and it's that drive and it's that intention. And it takes hard work to do that. And I get. I see people, especially some of the people who are like, I just don't want to work that hard. That's fine. But don't go into certain fields then. Because you'll never find the success that you think that you deserve if you're not willing to put the effort into though. And then can I be a little mean as well and say you better reduce the goals and the vision you have for your life as well?

1:16:19 You know, I didn't get on an airplane until I was 19. I took my first flight at 19 years old. I flew out to Aspen, Colorado. It the first mountain I ever climbed. I have now traveled all over the world and I love it. It energizes me, it excites me. And my mom's still never been on an airplane, ever. That just wasn't, her world was really small. And I wanted so much more than that. So if this is tough to train, if grit, if you just can't train it.

1:16:59 And the majority of the world doesn't have it. They haven't learned the skill. They haven't been forced to, because as you spoke to the way that we're growing up now, and I've said this multiple times, I think it's admirable about what parents are trying to do. It seems like their intention. Here's what you hear is that, I just want their life to be better than mine. And I don't want them to have as much of struggle as me. I don't want it to be as hard as mine. And so I think that's admirable because it means that they care. But then my instant response, I've gotten better until it's my moment to respond. And I'd say, but isn't that how you became who you are? How are they going to become the best version of themselves if it's always easy?

1:17:45 And I think that the key to that, and look, I wasn't perfect and I made plenty of missteps as a single mom with my son. And I had to understand that he was different than me and his core identity was different than mine. So he was never gonna be as intense as I am. But I was really honest with him. And so even though I gave him a lot of experiences and a lot of opportunities, I also was honest with him about my expectations. And I discussed with him when he faltered from those that I was disappointed and there were ramifications to it.

1:18:27 Right. And I think that's, that's all things that people. We have a really strong relationship now, but there were some times that it was difficult and it should be. When somebody is 16 and they're like, my mom's my best friend. Well, then she's not punishing you enough for the things. And my favorite is when everybody's like, my child is perfect. By the way, no child is perfect. None, zero, zilch. They might be good, but they're not, you and it might be less trouble than somebody else, but you also don't know what's going on behind the scenes. And so I don't. I don't think you can teach grit. What I do think you can teach is accountability and that you can set expectations and hold people to those expectations.

1:19:18 And then they're going to have to determine how they achieve that. And if they don't have the grit, then they are going to have to change either their goals, their dreams or their lifestyle because they're probably not going to achieve exactly what they thought they were going to. And I agree with you, I think there are a lot of middlers in the world. There a lot of people who are just happy hanging out in the middle. And I want to help people be extraordinary. Yeah, if I thought they were happy, I'd leave them alone. I don't see that. I don't hear it from them. I don't see it. I'm not saying I want to fight for it yet, but I think the majority of people deep inside, they want better.

1:20:01 Well, and I think that they're afraid. 85 % of millennials will tell you that they're in the wrong job, but they're afraid to change jobs. They're afraid because of they've built their career here, they may not make enough money, or they won't be good at the next thing. We have people who we hire into roles based upon their resume or the companies that they've worked for. They were never good at the previous job, but because they've worked for all of these big companies. They just keep getting jobs and it just is a cycle. They work there six to 18 months. They don't do great. They're either middle of the pack or below the pack and then they go get the next job. And we have to change that. We have to, that's why I said I'm so passionate with companies saying, I don't care what their resume says.

1:20:44 I care who they are and that we're getting the right people. And the way that we have brought people into organizations is, oh, they, they had to be successful. They worked for XYZ company. That doesn't mean anything. 1 % of your past success will determine your future success. I want to know who you are today, what your story is, and where you want to go from there. ah And then how we're going to align that. also think that we as companies are insane when we write our job descriptions. Because we'll say, I want to... hate job descriptions.

1:21:25 I hate them. You know, I want this driven self-starter that's a team player. Those are two different people, by the way. You know, if you want to just be a part of a team and be collaborative all the time, you are not a self-starter driven. If you want the person who's out there that's going to be hard charging, that cares about hitting all the goals, but doesn't really care about what the rest of the team is doing, that is a different person than this person over here that doesn't mean that they're anti-social or that they can't collaborate with somebody, but that's not what drives them. And so, yeah, it's just bad from that standpoint. And then I think that because we've gotten to the point where we're just allowing mediocrity, we're just like, it's okay, it's fine.

1:22:16 Because it's hard, it's hard once that's set in, it's hard to change that. really hard to change that. you let a, if you let a, in ourselves and our lives, if we, in the, if I looked at my past, the things that I've done and had a mediocre outcome, um, that I've accepted for myself. once you let that set in, it's really hard to convince yourself to change and to do it differently. It really is because it's like you, were the person that allowed to happen in the first place. And so I have to become of a different human. have to have a different mindset. I have to awaken in some way. laugh because I work out every day. And people are like, oh, you're so fit.

1:22:56 I'm like, I work out every day. You can't go to the gym once a month and expect to meet your goals. ah You can't decide that you're going to eat healthy today. And the other 29 days of the month, you're going to crush a smash burger every day. The next piece that is I've been telling people a lot of times is that, Hey, listen, this isn't a judgment conversation. No, just want us to accept what the rules are. This game that we're playing. The rules are if you want a different outcome, you have to do different things. If you're willing to accept the current outcome you have, I won't give you any grief and I'm not going to judge you for it, but you knew except that's the outcome that you're going to continue to have.

1:23:45 That's exactly right. What do you consistently find yourself at Vetta? What are you, what's really your wheelhouse? When you're hired in your mind, here's my ideal client, who's here I'm going to find now. um What do you, what do you do? What do you do on a daily basis consistently that you're really good at? Determining that, it's, Brooklyn says hello again, by the way. Hey, with them, we are, I thought at the end, I'm actually, I'll say it now. I'm going to say thank you for letting us to get to meet Brooklyn. You coming up? She's like, I'm trying to come up. Um.

1:24:25 Like I said, I go in, I can listen to a business need, for me, it is about the people and helping them figure out, realigning the people, pulling the best out of the people, figuring out how to manage the people accordingly. Because I don't think other companies are doing that. I think they're going in and saying, I'm oh going to give you a strategy, and if you implement this strategy, it's going to work. That's only true if the people you have in place can execute that strategy. And so I had a client that I was talking to and I assessed their entire team and kind of what they wanted in their key roles.

1:25:08 And they had this, a couple of outliers. And I said, these people are probably great employees, but you've got them in the wrong roles in the organization. And if you shift them, if they're willing to be shifted, then You can bring in the people who are going to help you reach the other sales goals by moving these people to operations or to customer success or enablement. And if they're not, then you need to make the hard decision to let them go because right now they're the anchors and you're only as strong as your weakest player. Mm. So true. I could sit here and talk to you forever. And if we got to know Brooklyn, I don't know, maybe we actually would.

1:25:49 It'd like, come on, cause she's the size of a human. She is a baby. Did you not see she wants to be a lap dog? So we're clear, she has an Italian middle name. She's Brooklyn Gianna, so. Of course she is. Everything in your life. um They're going to yell at me to get off of here, but here's what's amazing. Are you, everything in your life is Italian except for your name. Yes. So my grandfather, here's the story. My grandfather came over from Italy, could not find work. At 17, he forged his birth certificate and made himself Charles Gregory and joined the fire department in Indianapolis.

1:26:29 He was the chief of the Indianapolis fire department on a fake ID. Well, he wouldn't get away with that in 2025. So De Gligorio is my original Italian name and if I had that it would have still been that. That's how that came about. anyway. Thank you for joining us. This is good. hope you're not too far away. I think that this is something if I ever get a chance to meet you in person, if you find a way to be in studio, if you find a way down here to Cincinnati, um I think this is just 10 % on what a full 100 % conversation could be. I'd love to come down. Just tell me when and we'll schedule it out and and and figure out Yeah, different things happen in studio.

1:27:13 It's just, it's different and we can go deeper and talk about these ideas on truly, this is the foundation that Mark and Amy think people can be a lot better to fulfill their potential. ah 100%. I would love to continue the conversation with you. think that would be amazing. Thank you for joining.