#153 - Mary Elizabeth Sadd | How Great Leaders See Around Corners and Live a Generous Life

1
00:00:00,078 --> 00:00:08,385
When you have somebody that can actually see around corners what could go wrong, being
prepared for it, but still being uh optimistic, I know it when I'm talking to an executive

2
00:00:08,385 --> 00:00:09,566
that gets it.

3
00:00:30,294 --> 00:00:33,676
Welcome back to not just another episode of the necessary entrepreneur.

4
00:00:33,676 --> 00:00:42,470
um We are fortunate to be able to sit down for what's probably going to be a half hour
conversation today that could go on for two or three hours, but maybe that's one down the

5
00:00:42,470 --> 00:00:44,201
road, possibly in studio.

6
00:00:44,201 --> 00:00:48,683
But today I'm just pumped to have a conversation with the guests that I can go for grow
from as well.

7
00:00:48,683 --> 00:00:52,404
um So today we're joined by Mary Elizabeth Saad.

8
00:00:52,605 --> 00:00:55,414
She's a leadership advisor, executive search expert.

9
00:00:55,414 --> 00:01:00,817
an author who has spent over two decades helping companies build world-class leadership
teams.

10
00:01:00,817 --> 00:01:10,362
She's worked with CEOs and boards across Fortune 500, private equity and fast growth
companies to navigate one of the hardest parts of entrepreneurship, scaling the people

11
00:01:10,362 --> 00:01:11,183
side of the business.

12
00:01:11,183 --> 00:01:22,369
um Mary also authored, which today we're going to dig into, a book, Living a Generous
Life, which is learning, earning and returning, where she explores what it means to build

13
00:01:22,369 --> 00:01:24,680
a career and company that leave a legacy.

14
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,136
Mary Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

15
00:01:28,184 --> 00:01:29,022
Thank you, Mark.

16
00:01:29,022 --> 00:01:30,690
I'm thrilled to be here with you today.

17
00:01:30,690 --> 00:01:33,344
Yeah, we had an awesome five minute conversation with you beforehand.

18
00:01:33,344 --> 00:01:35,496
So I'm really excited about this.

19
00:01:35,517 --> 00:01:39,171
We talked about the awesome white rose behind your head and the globe.

20
00:01:39,171 --> 00:01:44,547
I asked you, we'll get into the book, but I asked you, said, hey, what's the meaning of
that globe behind you?

21
00:01:44,568 --> 00:01:49,324
And I'd love for you to share again what that means, the two things that you had on your
desk.

22
00:01:49,324 --> 00:01:50,474
Yeah, thank you.

23
00:01:50,474 --> 00:01:56,636
So I had my own company several years ago, a search firm before I went on to Cornferry and
then the firm I'm with now.

24
00:01:56,636 --> 00:02:06,079
And I always made sure my team, everybody had a globe and an hourglass on their desk, just
to remind people that your global mindset is so important when you're talking to

25
00:02:06,079 --> 00:02:13,362
executives, no matter whether it's a small company or a big company, but have a global
mindset and think past the place where you're sitting right then and there.

26
00:02:13,362 --> 00:02:15,340
And the hourglass

27
00:02:15,340 --> 00:02:17,612
Mine is broken, so that's why it's not behind me on the other side.

28
00:02:17,612 --> 00:02:25,151
But hourglass is to remind people that time is so precious and make the most of your time
be useful and time kills deals.

29
00:02:25,151 --> 00:02:26,882
So just be mindful of your time.

30
00:02:26,882 --> 00:02:27,363
Hmm.

31
00:02:27,363 --> 00:02:33,533
How have you managed that over your careers on being an entrepreneur, starting a business,
selling it, and then now working for these firms?

32
00:02:33,533 --> 00:02:37,448
How do you manage everything in life and ultimately your time?

33
00:02:37,870 --> 00:02:38,631
That's a great question.

34
00:02:38,631 --> 00:02:45,736
So I raised, my husband and raised three boys who are now grown adults in their late 20s
and near 30s who are just amazing.

35
00:02:45,736 --> 00:02:49,318
Our goal was to raise ordinary boys to become extraordinary young men.

36
00:02:49,318 --> 00:02:52,600
And I'm happy to say by luck or on purpose, we tried to do it on purpose.

37
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:53,751
They are just extraordinary.

38
00:02:53,751 --> 00:02:55,262
So we're thrilled about that.

39
00:02:55,302 --> 00:02:58,304
I think a lot of it came from time.

40
00:02:58,304 --> 00:03:02,147
think time, work kind of expands to the amount of time you give it.

41
00:03:02,147 --> 00:03:04,669
And we had three boys who were all athletes that were very involved.

42
00:03:04,669 --> 00:03:06,478
They traveled for lacrosse.

43
00:03:06,478 --> 00:03:10,500
um And my husband and I both work, so we just have to figure it out and manage it.

44
00:03:10,500 --> 00:03:14,022
Quite frankly, I outsource things that were not the best use of my time.

45
00:03:14,022 --> 00:03:17,925
I'm not known for my cooking skills or cleaning or a variety of things.

46
00:03:17,925 --> 00:03:20,706
So I would outsource things that were not the best use of my time.

47
00:03:20,706 --> 00:03:26,029
And I found when I was done working and I came home, I didn't want to sit them in front of
the TV so I could go clean and cook.

48
00:03:26,029 --> 00:03:27,010
No, I want to be with them.

49
00:03:27,010 --> 00:03:27,944
I want to raise these boys.

50
00:03:27,944 --> 00:03:29,531
I want to take them to their sport.

51
00:03:29,531 --> 00:03:31,663
I think um I did the important things.

52
00:03:31,663 --> 00:03:34,054
You put the big rocks in the bucket first.

53
00:03:34,190 --> 00:03:40,115
Do you approach business the same way that you intentionally, because I use the word, you
want to raise extraordinary men.

54
00:03:40,115 --> 00:03:42,817
And so the word that steps out to me is extraordinary.

55
00:03:42,817 --> 00:03:45,399
And you put that together, it's just extra ordinary.

56
00:03:45,399 --> 00:03:46,560
It's extra.

57
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:53,706
And so, A, I want to hear what that means for you, what that meant you want to raise
extraordinary.

58
00:03:53,706 --> 00:03:58,810
And then do you take the same approach with time management and also doing extraordinary
things in companies the same way?

59
00:03:58,810 --> 00:03:59,860
What's that mean?

60
00:03:59,884 --> 00:04:01,314
Yeah.

61
00:04:01,415 --> 00:04:03,436
exactly as you say, extraordinary.

62
00:04:03,436 --> 00:04:05,377
I mean, we're all given what we're given.

63
00:04:05,377 --> 00:04:15,372
I feel like we were blessed with lovely young men, but we were very focused on routine and
discipline and respecting authority and not just being their best friend.

64
00:04:15,372 --> 00:04:23,437
mean, think we're best friends with them today because we did the hard things when it was
hard to do and just really instilled in them, again, respect for authority, respect for

65
00:04:23,437 --> 00:04:25,448
each other, thoughtfulness, giving.

66
00:04:25,448 --> 00:04:27,769
know, the book is Living a Generous Life.

67
00:04:27,769 --> 00:04:29,442
I'll tell you one quick story.

68
00:04:29,442 --> 00:04:38,907
Luke, my middle son, when he got his first big boy job working for Ernst & Young, I opened
up some mailer that was a receipt from a place where I donate on a regular basis.

69
00:04:38,907 --> 00:04:40,428
And I realized it was him.

70
00:04:40,428 --> 00:04:41,289
It was for him.

71
00:04:41,289 --> 00:04:42,750
It wasn't my donation.

72
00:04:42,750 --> 00:04:46,351
And I called and I said, Luke, that is so cool.

73
00:04:46,652 --> 00:04:47,752
what made you do that?

74
00:04:47,752 --> 00:04:49,613
And he said, well, you did it.

75
00:04:49,673 --> 00:04:51,514
And it's more is caught than taught.

76
00:04:51,514 --> 00:04:58,038
So I think we tried to demonstrate for them how to be thoughtful and kind and do more and
help other people.

77
00:04:58,038 --> 00:05:00,580
and seek out ways to make ourselves useful and not be idle.

78
00:05:00,580 --> 00:05:03,081
So extraordinary, just as you say.

79
00:05:03,081 --> 00:05:04,742
And in work, I think that's a great question.

80
00:05:04,742 --> 00:05:13,648
I have learned over the years, I've heard myself say this so many times, if I'm not
talking to a potential client or a candidate, it's not the best use of my time.

81
00:05:13,648 --> 00:05:18,471
If I'm over here working on a spreadsheet, I am highly overcompensated because I'm not
gonna be very good at it.

82
00:05:18,471 --> 00:05:19,912
It's gonna take a very long time.

83
00:05:19,912 --> 00:05:23,820
So you have to know where is your expertise, where are your gifts.

84
00:05:23,820 --> 00:05:30,994
and make the most use of where you're gifted and outsourced and surround yourself with
people that can do the things where they're excellent and you're not.

85
00:05:31,766 --> 00:05:35,227
So you touched on the book, I want to come back to that, but you have a deep, deep
history.

86
00:05:35,227 --> 00:05:40,319
um I have no connection to the University of Georgia, except for a couple of awesome
people, right?

87
00:05:40,319 --> 00:05:42,069
We know Tommy, who's fantastic.

88
00:05:42,069 --> 00:05:43,510
He's got that Georgia connection.

89
00:05:43,510 --> 00:05:48,381
You guys are connected, but your ties go deep at the University of Georgia.

90
00:05:48,381 --> 00:05:52,603
So I'd like to hear the story about that and then how that brings you to where you are
today.

91
00:05:52,603 --> 00:05:57,334
Have you been impacted significantly from that experience through multiple generations?

92
00:05:57,368 --> 00:05:58,739
so much.

93
00:05:58,739 --> 00:06:02,760
uh My maiden name is Waddell, D-A-D-D-E-L-L.

94
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:10,344
And some of you may know if you're listening and you went to the University of Georgia,
the arches there's that historic plaque off to the left.

95
00:06:10,344 --> 00:06:12,805
And it goes through bit of the history of UGA.

96
00:06:12,805 --> 00:06:17,927
And it refers to a Moses Waddell in 1819, so a long time ago.

97
00:06:17,927 --> 00:06:20,548
The university started to thrive under Moses Waddell.

98
00:06:20,548 --> 00:06:22,853
He arrived in 1819.

99
00:06:22,853 --> 00:06:25,514
There were seven students and three administrators.

100
00:06:25,514 --> 00:06:26,815
And it was really floundering.

101
00:06:26,815 --> 00:06:28,195
mean, it was nearly out of money.

102
00:06:28,195 --> 00:06:32,036
It just became, switched from Franklin College to University of Georgia.

103
00:06:32,057 --> 00:06:33,337
And he really, it started to thrive.

104
00:06:33,337 --> 00:06:36,298
And when he left 10 years later, there were hundreds of students.

105
00:06:36,298 --> 00:06:40,300
So I found myself on campus speaking to students sometimes.

106
00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:45,942
And a lot of us don't know what our grandparents or great grandparents did, but this is my
great, great, great grandfather.

107
00:06:45,962 --> 00:06:47,033
So I'm fifth generation.

108
00:06:47,033 --> 00:06:49,544
My youngest son is sixth generation in direct line.

109
00:06:49,544 --> 00:06:53,355
And I just love that I stand there on campus and it is an amazing university.

110
00:06:53,355 --> 00:06:54,956
It's an amazing institution.

111
00:06:54,956 --> 00:07:04,624
And I think about what this man did, what he chose to do, which was leave an academy that
he had started in South Carolina and go to UGA when it was floundering, when he had this

112
00:07:04,624 --> 00:07:05,815
very successful school.

113
00:07:05,815 --> 00:07:09,838
It was floundering and to make it what is the foundation of today, we're standing on
campus.

114
00:07:09,838 --> 00:07:13,922
And I'm like, but for Moses Waddell, what would be UGA today?

115
00:07:13,922 --> 00:07:20,307
And I think about he's impacted tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people
throughout the years that don't even know him.

116
00:07:20,307 --> 00:07:24,512
And it's a reminder to me that we're leaving a legacy that's going to impact people.

117
00:07:24,512 --> 00:07:31,627
Every day, by choice or not, we're leaving a legacy and we need to be thoughtful and make
good choices about how we're impacting people.

118
00:07:31,627 --> 00:07:36,640
There are folks that will never ever meet us, won't know our name and we're impacting them
right now, you and I both.

119
00:07:37,388 --> 00:07:44,542
that goes in line with this idea that, em you know, it's our job now to plant trees for
which the shade will never see.

120
00:07:45,023 --> 00:07:45,604
Right.

121
00:07:45,604 --> 00:07:52,498
And to see that the stories of people and, and I'm very positive and optimistic about
society, but these stories need to be shared.

122
00:07:52,498 --> 00:07:53,249
Yeah.

123
00:07:53,249 --> 00:07:53,459
Right.

124
00:07:53,459 --> 00:07:59,233
Because I think that we'll talk about it today about making intentional acts and
developing, making an impact and living a good life.

125
00:07:59,233 --> 00:08:03,796
But it's our job to build a really good wife for us and our families right now.

126
00:08:03,796 --> 00:08:07,496
But it's also our job to push this thing forward from a generational perspective.

127
00:08:07,496 --> 00:08:08,396
And right.

128
00:08:08,396 --> 00:08:14,869
I'm so appreciative personally on what's been done in those four or five and six and seven
previous generations.

129
00:08:14,869 --> 00:08:21,092
Their lives were way more difficult and the things that they did sacrifices they did with
shorter life expectancies.

130
00:08:21,092 --> 00:08:22,983
And they did all that work to build this for us.

131
00:08:22,983 --> 00:08:23,873
We can't tear it down.

132
00:08:23,873 --> 00:08:25,986
It's our job to push it forward a little bit more.

133
00:08:25,986 --> 00:08:27,500
Yep, I love that Mark, you're absolutely right.

134
00:08:27,500 --> 00:08:32,856
We're standing on the shoulders of the people that came before us and we've got to stand
tall for the ones that come after us.

135
00:08:32,856 --> 00:08:33,146
Yeah.

136
00:08:33,146 --> 00:08:41,032
So you mentioned when he first went from Franklin College and it became University of
Georgia, there was a ratio of seven students to three administrators.

137
00:08:41,032 --> 00:08:47,156
There's this, we won't get into public education and education, but I think this is a
correlation for business.

138
00:08:47,156 --> 00:08:57,063
If there's an argument that the better teacher to student ratio you get in classrooms, is
there an argument to be made in business as well that that's similar when we find mentors

139
00:08:57,063 --> 00:08:59,645
to follow, when we find departments and companies to join?

140
00:08:59,645 --> 00:09:01,218
Have you seen over the years,

141
00:09:01,218 --> 00:09:03,375
that that same thing applies in business or no.

142
00:09:03,375 --> 00:09:06,094
I've never even brought this up or asked this question.

143
00:09:06,094 --> 00:09:08,774
Yeah, know, depends is not a very good answer.

144
00:09:08,774 --> 00:09:13,274
But what I will tell you about mentorship, I think mentorship has become something that is
commonplace.

145
00:09:13,274 --> 00:09:16,914
When I graduated in the 80s, people didn't talk about mentors.

146
00:09:16,914 --> 00:09:20,494
You know, I went to mobile, then I was at GE, and you may or may not get a formal mentor.

147
00:09:20,494 --> 00:09:21,934
Now people formally get a mentor.

148
00:09:21,934 --> 00:09:29,214
And while I think that's good, what I think, you know, the point I want to make is having
a sponsor is more important for your growth in a company.

149
00:09:29,214 --> 00:09:31,614
And a sponsor isn't somebody that gives you advice like a mentor.

150
00:09:31,614 --> 00:09:35,404
A sponsor is somebody that represents you favorably when you're not in the room.

151
00:09:35,404 --> 00:09:38,136
Your name comes up and that's how you move forward.

152
00:09:38,136 --> 00:09:44,361
When I was at the coin fairy, was a part of the women CEO speak study that was funded by
the Rockefeller Foundation.

153
00:09:44,361 --> 00:09:53,567
And we interviewed female CEOs and really looked at what was the difference both in
psychometrics and experience from the females that made it to CEO compared to the men.

154
00:09:53,567 --> 00:09:56,449
And it's outrageously still not.

155
00:09:56,449 --> 00:09:58,150
um

156
00:09:58,174 --> 00:09:59,375
It's not moved forward very much.

157
00:09:59,375 --> 00:10:02,778
There's still very few people of color, very few women comparatively speaking.

158
00:10:02,778 --> 00:10:08,123
But nonetheless, almost every one of them referred to having a sponsor and they didn't
choose their sponsor.

159
00:10:08,123 --> 00:10:10,305
Somebody chose them because they saw talent.

160
00:10:10,305 --> 00:10:11,976
So I'm not necessarily answering your question.

161
00:10:11,976 --> 00:10:21,725
I think what depends is what are you doing to get access and have people representing you
because somebody may choose you and you may need to reach out and figure out who would I

162
00:10:21,725 --> 00:10:24,357
like to be talking about me behind those closed doors.

163
00:10:24,357 --> 00:10:26,058
So it's reaching up.

164
00:10:26,226 --> 00:10:31,529
You said something really important though, that someone that was in a leadership
position, they saw talent.

165
00:10:32,529 --> 00:10:37,712
So that person did something to put themselves in a position to be seen.

166
00:10:38,193 --> 00:10:41,534
what's our metric and our story and what you've learned about that?

167
00:10:41,634 --> 00:10:48,819
Well, in the case of these women that we interviewed, was almost all men because there
weren't enough females that there were a lot of women behind those closed doors.

168
00:10:48,819 --> 00:10:57,585
And I think it was just spotting talent and caring about a different voice and um a
different perspective in the room that had been for years and years and years.

169
00:10:57,585 --> 00:11:03,189
So I think it's spotting that, seeing that somebody's smart, they're ambitious, they're
hardworking, they're all the things that make a great leader.

170
00:11:03,189 --> 00:11:07,652
And I think oh leadership today, would also tell you, is authentic.

171
00:11:07,652 --> 00:11:10,638
There's, uh you we talk a lot about mental health, but

172
00:11:10,638 --> 00:11:13,138
I've seen this long before it was something to talk about.

173
00:11:13,138 --> 00:11:19,238
The leaders that are thoughtful and genuine and just transparent are the ones that really
make an impact on companies.

174
00:11:19,238 --> 00:11:20,430
Can I tell you a quick story?

175
00:11:20,430 --> 00:11:22,000
I was gonna say, do you have a great example of that?

176
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:22,638
Yeah.

177
00:11:22,638 --> 00:11:23,418
Yes, okay.

178
00:11:23,418 --> 00:11:26,058
I work in the industrial manufacturing sector.

179
00:11:26,058 --> 00:11:33,058
And so a lot of these companies have big footprint manufacturing sites all over the world,
or even some just around the, know, 2030 around the Americas.

180
00:11:33,058 --> 00:11:38,338
And I was interviewing this one gentleman at one point in time, and he was telling me some
different stories.

181
00:11:38,338 --> 00:11:43,378
And I was asking about what he did to create the magnificent results that he had gotten.

182
00:11:43,378 --> 00:11:47,918
And he said he would go around to the, you know, he'd do a town hall at different plants.

183
00:11:47,918 --> 00:11:51,650
And it might be a year in between getting back to the same one, because there's so many.

184
00:11:51,650 --> 00:11:58,352
But he would go up to the operators at the machines and of course somebody, they would
usually have their name, but he might say, hey, Mark, yeah, how are you doing?

185
00:11:58,352 --> 00:12:01,853
He would remember last year your daughter was going off to college, how's everything
going?

186
00:12:01,853 --> 00:12:06,294
And it might be a 30 second interaction, but he really would make eye contact.

187
00:12:06,294 --> 00:12:14,156
I was actually with somebody in a plant yesterday, I was with the CEO and he literally,
there's an operator worker walking by and the CEO went up and just grabbed him, shook his

188
00:12:14,156 --> 00:12:15,356
hand and patted him on the back.

189
00:12:15,356 --> 00:12:21,088
And like for these, the top person in an organization to be on a plant floor and
acknowledge you,

190
00:12:21,088 --> 00:12:22,739
is really a big deal.

191
00:12:22,739 --> 00:12:25,811
People need to be seen and they need to feel cared for.

192
00:12:25,811 --> 00:12:30,524
And if people feel seen, heard and cared for, they will be productive employees.

193
00:12:30,524 --> 00:12:37,128
And about half the population of the US supposedly is, the stat is 50 % are unengaged.

194
00:12:37,128 --> 00:12:41,352
And if you want people to be engaged, they have to be seen and heard and felt to make
special.

195
00:12:41,352 --> 00:12:44,553
So I think that's just a brilliant leadership tip.

196
00:12:45,570 --> 00:12:52,586
When you walk with these CEOs, um are they seeing everything?

197
00:12:53,814 --> 00:12:55,557
I think they miss very little.

198
00:12:55,634 --> 00:12:56,702
I agree with you.

199
00:12:56,702 --> 00:12:58,412
Yeah, they miss very little.

200
00:12:58,412 --> 00:12:58,652
Yep.

201
00:12:58,652 --> 00:13:03,544
And so what's the responsibility of every individual that wants to be seen?

202
00:13:03,544 --> 00:13:03,764
Yeah.

203
00:13:03,764 --> 00:13:10,627
I think it is the leader's job to do the things that you said that is their
responsibility, but there's also equal responsibility and the positions that I've been

204
00:13:10,627 --> 00:13:12,268
employee over my life.

205
00:13:13,648 --> 00:13:19,371
I was seen because of the things I did and the way I carried myself and the attitude that
I had.

206
00:13:19,371 --> 00:13:24,413
And so I had to learn to do that, but I think I had to understand that I was responsible
for that.

207
00:13:24,413 --> 00:13:27,744
That was totally separate from what the responsibility of leadership was.

208
00:13:28,110 --> 00:13:31,310
Well, I think there's accountability to having your voice, finding your voice.

209
00:13:31,310 --> 00:13:38,490
There's so many people, and I'll tell you, women in particular, especially male-dominated
industries and spaces that don't feel like they have a voice.

210
00:13:38,690 --> 00:13:44,930
And I mean, I remember feeling like that a few times in my career, but it's my
responsibility to be seen and to be heard.

211
00:13:44,930 --> 00:13:47,950
And if something's bothering me, don't just mutter about it to somebody else.

212
00:13:47,950 --> 00:13:49,350
Don't just complain to my husband.

213
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:51,970
Say something, do something, make the place better.

214
00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:53,830
And I will tell you, leaders make mistakes too.

215
00:13:53,830 --> 00:13:54,570
They're allowed.

216
00:13:54,570 --> 00:13:55,948
But if they don't know,

217
00:13:55,948 --> 00:13:58,806
what's going on if there's something that wasn't received well.

218
00:13:59,210 --> 00:14:00,846
I think it's disrespectful.

219
00:14:00,846 --> 00:14:01,587
Yeah, I agree.

220
00:14:01,587 --> 00:14:09,378
Did you, I didn't do a deep dive into the book, but I'm assuming since, you know,
developing women leaders and having them show up in boardrooms and C-suites is important.

221
00:14:09,378 --> 00:14:12,918
Did you read Sheryl Samberg's book back in the day about weaning in?

222
00:14:12,918 --> 00:14:14,768
Leaning in, yes, I love that.

223
00:14:14,830 --> 00:14:15,914
What was your take on it?

224
00:14:15,914 --> 00:14:18,662
uh

225
00:14:18,936 --> 00:14:26,266
I think she's spot on and it's like having your voice and leaning in and being a part of
the conversation.

226
00:14:26,266 --> 00:14:34,407
I if we want to choose to be a wallflower, that's not somebody else's fault just because
you may be in a minority or you may be, I kind of joke about a gentleman I used to work

227
00:14:34,407 --> 00:14:37,159
with, it's tall, very tall, booming voice.

228
00:14:37,159 --> 00:14:40,902
I he would literally lean back in his chair and people would turn to say, what's he going
to say?

229
00:14:40,902 --> 00:14:43,724
And I'm like, I'm a kind of small person, especially next to him.

230
00:14:43,724 --> 00:14:46,246
I'd have to lean in, I might raise my hand and nobody's like looking.

231
00:14:46,246 --> 00:14:47,180
So I'd have to.

232
00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:52,008
I'd have to make myself seen because I'm not physically so booming, if you will.

233
00:14:52,008 --> 00:14:58,348
I think the whole, literally lean in and be seen and be heard and know you have value or
you wouldn't be there.

234
00:14:58,348 --> 00:14:59,282
m

235
00:14:59,282 --> 00:15:03,923
you leaned in as you were coming up through the ranks, how did you make yourself seen?

236
00:15:03,923 --> 00:15:09,566
What was the approach that you took to make sure that people saw you in the way you wanted
them to see you?

237
00:15:10,446 --> 00:15:13,226
So I'll tell you specifically when I am.

238
00:15:13,226 --> 00:15:17,066
So when I left GE, they were fortune one at the time, and that's a tough place to be seen.

239
00:15:17,066 --> 00:15:26,146
But I was surrounded by so many great leaders and they are great about recognizing young
talent and really giving you opportunities and big projects.

240
00:15:26,166 --> 00:15:29,006
I missed the memo that my husband didn't want to move every two years.

241
00:15:29,006 --> 00:15:30,686
So that's why I ended up leaving.

242
00:15:31,206 --> 00:15:33,746
So I kept the dream husband, left the dream job.

243
00:15:34,166 --> 00:15:39,852
So when I started my own firm after working for a boutique for a little bit, I realized
like,

244
00:15:39,852 --> 00:15:41,503
I didn't have all the answers.

245
00:15:41,503 --> 00:15:49,047
And I don't want to say I faked it because you do fake some things, but I just was
relentless in figuring out what's working, what's not, what do do more of?

246
00:15:49,047 --> 00:15:52,629
And I think I have a particular gift for encouraging people.

247
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:56,771
And my number one strengths in the Clifton Strengths Finders is positivity.

248
00:15:56,771 --> 00:16:00,773
And some people ask me like, even when things are tough, you know, is it hard to stay
positive?

249
00:16:00,773 --> 00:16:02,054
I wish I could give it to people.

250
00:16:02,054 --> 00:16:03,555
I do think you can practice it.

251
00:16:03,555 --> 00:16:07,117
I think you can, you know, hone that as a skill, but I come by it naturally.

252
00:16:07,117 --> 00:16:09,774
So even when things aren't great, I can't help but to

253
00:16:09,774 --> 00:16:11,134
Well, it's gonna get better.

254
00:16:11,134 --> 00:16:12,514
gonna, I mean, it just is.

255
00:16:12,514 --> 00:16:18,974
So I think as an encourager, I would encourage people if I made a mistake or we went the
wrong direction or somebody else made a mistake, say, okay, what's next?

256
00:16:18,974 --> 00:16:19,914
What are we gonna do?

257
00:16:19,914 --> 00:16:21,914
And so you just keep moving forward.

258
00:16:21,914 --> 00:16:25,574
You don't ever sit back and, you know, take your licks.

259
00:16:25,574 --> 00:16:26,714
You go forward.

260
00:16:26,776 --> 00:16:37,034
think, um, so often, you know, there was this toxic positivity thing years ago that really
irritated me that conversation because I'm somebody that I believe that you can choose the

261
00:16:37,034 --> 00:16:38,676
way that you feel about things.

262
00:16:38,676 --> 00:16:46,472
And it doesn't change what's happening, but the way you feel about it, if you're
approaching something in positive manner, what I found from my experience, I'm going to

263
00:16:46,472 --> 00:16:47,823
solve it quicker.

264
00:16:48,284 --> 00:16:49,295
I'm going to sign yesterday.

265
00:16:49,295 --> 00:16:52,537
I was walking through a construction site, just all these things that I'm around.

266
00:16:52,537 --> 00:16:55,950
And, um, one of the contractors, hasn't gone.

267
00:16:55,950 --> 00:17:03,290
As planned, we've had some delays and they were finally on the job and I was walking
through and I said, hello, was one of those moments where they're uncomfortable and

268
00:17:03,290 --> 00:17:04,690
they're waiting for me to be uncomfortable.

269
00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:07,710
Cause they, everybody knows it's not a happy situation.

270
00:17:07,710 --> 00:17:08,790
And so I said, hello.

271
00:17:08,790 --> 00:17:12,250
And the first thing they said back to me was they said, said, Hey, how are you doing?

272
00:17:12,250 --> 00:17:13,790
And they're like, Oh man, it's tough.

273
00:17:13,790 --> 00:17:14,430
And they said, how are you?

274
00:17:14,430 --> 00:17:14,910
was like, I'm great.

275
00:17:14,910 --> 00:17:16,050
And he's like, don't lie to me.

276
00:17:16,050 --> 00:17:17,570
said, no, what are you talking about?

277
00:17:18,350 --> 00:17:19,170
I'm.

278
00:17:20,430 --> 00:17:20,960
And.

279
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:27,683
And in the moment, I'm not being dishonest, but if they want to have a conversation about
it, I'll tell my guys, yeah, I'm not happy this has taken this long, but it's good to see

280
00:17:27,683 --> 00:17:28,698
you here today.

281
00:17:28,939 --> 00:17:32,362
So maybe we can double time it and get this thing done.

282
00:17:32,694 --> 00:17:33,454
love that.

283
00:17:33,454 --> 00:17:35,515
I'll tell you, everybody's got stuff going on.

284
00:17:35,515 --> 00:17:39,997
have a few heavy things, one of which is I have a sister who's dying of ovarian cancer.

285
00:17:40,157 --> 00:17:44,199
And em I'm racing down to see her again tomorrow because she's just taking a turn for the
worse.

286
00:17:44,199 --> 00:17:50,512
em I tell people, like she's my best friend and she's been ill for a while, but I
literally think it's hard.

287
00:17:50,512 --> 00:17:51,982
It's very, very hard.

288
00:17:51,982 --> 00:17:56,324
And if God trusts me with big problems, who am I not to say, you that you trust me?

289
00:17:56,324 --> 00:17:58,545
Thank you that you trust me with big problems.

290
00:17:58,645 --> 00:18:00,716
And it's not being

291
00:18:00,768 --> 00:18:02,298
It's not being Pollyanna.

292
00:18:02,298 --> 00:18:07,762
I literally think, you you get big problems if you can handle it and you can do something
about it.

293
00:18:08,008 --> 00:18:12,032
Um, what I know in that moment, it's probably outside of where I should even go to speak
to it.

294
00:18:12,032 --> 00:18:13,584
Your best friend and your sister.

295
00:18:13,584 --> 00:18:14,945
It's tough times.

296
00:18:15,166 --> 00:18:23,924
What I do know about that situation, about the approach that you're taking, but you
benefit her that she's going through this, having your personality, your perspective.

297
00:18:24,216 --> 00:18:24,656
Thank you.

298
00:18:24,656 --> 00:18:24,996
Thank you.

299
00:18:24,996 --> 00:18:28,949
I've spent a lot of time with her since her diagnosis and it's been a blessing.

300
00:18:29,089 --> 00:18:30,638
You know, you hate to lose somebody suddenly.

301
00:18:30,638 --> 00:18:32,211
You hate to lose anybody period.

302
00:18:32,211 --> 00:18:33,712
We're going to that's life.

303
00:18:33,712 --> 00:18:36,123
But the blessing, my dog wants to say something.

304
00:18:36,123 --> 00:18:39,175
Okay, good.

305
00:18:39,175 --> 00:18:40,116
She wants to say hello.

306
00:18:40,116 --> 00:18:42,647
Her name is Gurley as in Todd Gurley, like UGA.

307
00:18:42,647 --> 00:18:42,727
it?

308
00:18:42,727 --> 00:18:43,238
Yeah.

309
00:18:43,238 --> 00:18:43,778
Okay.

310
00:18:43,778 --> 00:18:48,541
um But the blessing is I've had time with her to talk about, there's nothing we haven't
talked about in the last few months.

311
00:18:48,541 --> 00:18:50,936
um so that's been special.

312
00:18:50,936 --> 00:18:52,347
Good for you being with her.

313
00:18:53,368 --> 00:18:55,008
Let's jump over to this book.

314
00:18:55,008 --> 00:18:56,511
You're really passionate about this.

315
00:18:56,511 --> 00:19:01,555
I want you to speak to really what it means to you and why you wrote it and how we can all
benefit from it.

316
00:19:01,555 --> 00:19:07,299
But the one thing that I love is these small intentional acts of generosity.

317
00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:10,663
This isn't my story today, this is your story.

318
00:19:10,663 --> 00:19:13,685
But that is 100 % truth and I've experienced it.

319
00:19:13,685 --> 00:19:18,829
And so um I want to hear about living a generous life, learning, earning and returning.

320
00:19:18,829 --> 00:19:20,070
um

321
00:19:20,610 --> 00:19:21,798
We want to hear about it.

322
00:19:21,944 --> 00:19:22,695
Thank you.

323
00:19:22,695 --> 00:19:25,456
Well, girly may or may not join our conversation anymore.

324
00:19:25,536 --> 00:19:30,139
okay, so I think, so I started writing this because I heard myself talking about it on
campus.

325
00:19:30,139 --> 00:19:33,001
And I would talk to these students and I would say, you've got to learn well.

326
00:19:33,001 --> 00:19:36,563
And I learned this from, you know, the stories about my great-great grandfather.

327
00:19:36,563 --> 00:19:42,767
He actually was a preacher, decided to become an educator because he felt like you
shouldn't preach to people that aren't educated.

328
00:19:42,767 --> 00:19:44,238
So that's how we got into education.

329
00:19:44,238 --> 00:19:45,569
So preacher to teacher.

330
00:19:45,569 --> 00:19:47,018
And I realized...

331
00:19:47,018 --> 00:19:51,201
education that opens doors for like just countless generations, right?

332
00:19:51,201 --> 00:19:54,343
And people that don't have access to education, breaks my heart.

333
00:19:54,343 --> 00:20:04,850
So where I give a lot of my time and money is helping support people that don't have
access to education as well as places that help cure childhood diseases and clean water

334
00:20:04,850 --> 00:20:06,432
for children that don't have that.

335
00:20:06,432 --> 00:20:11,915
But anyways, I heard myself, you're on campus, you're at a wonderful university, you're
getting an amazing degree, learn well.

336
00:20:11,915 --> 00:20:14,677
And I believe the better you learn, the more you'll earn.

337
00:20:14,677 --> 00:20:16,014
And yes, there's some money.

338
00:20:16,014 --> 00:20:22,254
thing there, there's a money component to it, you can't give what you don't have, be it
your time or your wisdom or your money.

339
00:20:22,254 --> 00:20:30,714
And if I'm not sending money for clean water in Africa, I know I'm certainly not
single-handedly saving this, but if people don't have enough money to donate and share,

340
00:20:30,714 --> 00:20:31,674
who's going to do it?

341
00:20:31,674 --> 00:20:33,574
It's a privilege to make money.

342
00:20:33,574 --> 00:20:34,734
You can't give what you don't have.

343
00:20:34,734 --> 00:20:39,234
So I think there's some limiting beliefs around earning and quite frankly, females have
more of this.

344
00:20:39,234 --> 00:20:44,522
We're still at 86 cents on the dollar to what men earn and that's barely up in 20 years.

345
00:20:44,522 --> 00:20:48,195
And that's not the fault of anybody that maybe we don't ask for it.

346
00:20:48,195 --> 00:20:49,547
I don't know, I can't solve that one.

347
00:20:49,547 --> 00:20:52,570
But I think the better you earn, you can then return.

348
00:20:52,570 --> 00:20:59,646
And I want you to have wisdom, I want you to have time, I want you to have treasure, I
want you to be able to support an underrepresented youth that doesn't have access to

349
00:20:59,646 --> 00:21:00,677
education.

350
00:21:00,677 --> 00:21:06,622
So the cycle of learning, earning, and returning is so, you get to be generous if you do
those things well.

351
00:21:07,064 --> 00:21:10,083
Did you start out, when did you come up with this?

352
00:21:10,083 --> 00:21:12,630
Were you already living it before you wrote it down?

353
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:14,722
Were you living it, experiencing it, knew it?

354
00:21:14,722 --> 00:21:15,542
Yes, yes.

355
00:21:15,542 --> 00:21:19,822
And as I would speak on campus, I heard myself talking about these three circles coming
together.

356
00:21:19,822 --> 00:21:22,426
I realized this is how I've lived my life.

357
00:21:22,426 --> 00:21:24,336
And so there are people that said, you've got to write a book.

358
00:21:24,336 --> 00:21:25,227
And I'd say, sure.

359
00:21:25,227 --> 00:21:27,768
And then I realized I'm either a liar or I'm really going to write the book.

360
00:21:27,768 --> 00:21:30,109
So I started during COVID kind of dabbling.

361
00:21:30,109 --> 00:21:35,912
And then when my sister was diagnosed about a year ago, she said, if you don't hurry and
finish it, I'm never going to read it.

362
00:21:35,932 --> 00:21:36,692
And she read it.

363
00:21:36,692 --> 00:21:38,073
She actually did the forward.

364
00:21:38,073 --> 00:21:40,914
so she was really my inspiration to get over the finish line.

365
00:21:42,072 --> 00:21:45,991
Boy, what could we take away from motivation and inspiration with that moment?

366
00:21:46,475 --> 00:21:51,136
Because you wouldn't have finished the book in the same timeframe without her going
through this.

367
00:21:51,138 --> 00:21:53,280
No, no, no, I wouldn't have.

368
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,562
And it was how it was supposed to be.

369
00:21:55,562 --> 00:22:06,142
And she's such a believer in me and some of the things that I'm doing today and combining
my career of executive search and how does that correlate to leaders and the people I

370
00:22:06,142 --> 00:22:08,995
interview and the generosity and transparency that we talked about.

371
00:22:08,995 --> 00:22:12,958
I feel like she's the catalyst that really pushed that out of me.

372
00:22:12,958 --> 00:22:17,482
And I love where I am today and I'm proud that she really helped get me here.

373
00:22:17,550 --> 00:22:21,810
When you say you were speaking on campus, how often do you go and what environment?

374
00:22:21,810 --> 00:22:23,750
Are you an adjunct professor?

375
00:22:24,170 --> 00:22:26,890
Do you have public forums?

376
00:22:26,890 --> 00:22:27,846
What do do?

377
00:22:27,928 --> 00:22:29,319
So it depends.

378
00:22:29,319 --> 00:22:31,259
Some years I speak more than others.

379
00:22:31,259 --> 00:22:34,481
I'm on the Terry Alumni Board, the Business College Board.

380
00:22:34,481 --> 00:22:42,124
And before I joined that, found myself, okay, I'll tell you, my husband and I invested in
an endowment at UGA in my great-great-grandfather's name.

381
00:22:42,124 --> 00:22:48,096
And our endowment is to support somebody that can get into UGA but doesn't have the extra
of five to 10,000 to be there.

382
00:22:48,096 --> 00:22:51,047
Because even though you get all these scholarships, there's still more money.

383
00:22:51,047 --> 00:22:57,410
Our first student was a young lady whose family was homeless at the time, and nobody in
her family had ever been to school.

384
00:22:57,410 --> 00:22:59,372
been to the university, to a college.

385
00:22:59,372 --> 00:23:04,358
And she graduated in four years with a double dog, which is, you know, undergrad and a
master's.

386
00:23:04,358 --> 00:23:13,707
we are just over the moon about being able to do something that is, you know, somewhat um
seemingly small, but is making waves for generations.

387
00:23:13,707 --> 00:23:16,261
Like her whole family is impacted by this.

388
00:23:16,261 --> 00:23:18,926
So I was asked to speak sometimes to

389
00:23:18,926 --> 00:23:23,786
business school or students or be when I had my firm, I was asked to talk to the
entrepreneurs group.

390
00:23:23,786 --> 00:23:27,586
So just a variety of different connections to UGA and invited to speak.

391
00:23:27,586 --> 00:23:31,426
And since I've been on the board, I've been heavily involved in that more so than speaking
to the students.

392
00:23:31,426 --> 00:23:37,526
But I love being on campus and, just seeing these bright young people that I'm this, I
don't even, I wouldn't even be to get back in the school this year.

393
00:23:37,526 --> 00:23:38,366
They're so bright.

394
00:23:38,366 --> 00:23:40,066
This time it's amazing.

395
00:23:40,066 --> 00:23:41,326
It keeps you feeling young.

396
00:23:41,426 --> 00:23:42,206
Yes.

397
00:23:42,206 --> 00:23:45,766
Well, they're just so ambitious and they're doing such big, amazing things.

398
00:23:45,766 --> 00:23:47,372
It's, it's inspiring.

399
00:23:47,372 --> 00:23:48,663
Yeah, that's awesome.

400
00:23:48,803 --> 00:23:50,244
So what are you doing?

401
00:23:50,625 --> 00:23:52,156
What's your professional endeavors?

402
00:23:52,156 --> 00:23:53,487
You've done all these things.

403
00:23:53,487 --> 00:23:55,898
You're doing these things from a philanthropic perspective.

404
00:23:55,898 --> 00:23:57,410
You spend all this time at UGA.

405
00:23:57,410 --> 00:23:58,320
You've been an entrepreneur.

406
00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:59,126
You've sold companies.

407
00:23:59,126 --> 00:24:00,332
You're writing books.

408
00:24:00,332 --> 00:24:01,753
What do you really still want to do?

409
00:24:01,753 --> 00:24:02,453
What are you doing right now?

410
00:24:02,453 --> 00:24:03,586
What do you want to do?

411
00:24:03,586 --> 00:24:04,166
That's awesome.

412
00:24:04,166 --> 00:24:04,667
Thank you.

413
00:24:04,667 --> 00:24:12,654
The field that I'm in is wonderful in that you can do a little less, but I run the
industrial pod, but I can, I'm training up my successor.

414
00:24:12,654 --> 00:24:16,497
And in this business, you don't like take your box and fill it and walk out the front
door.

415
00:24:16,497 --> 00:24:20,230
I could do less search and handle the leadership position and do it forever.

416
00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:21,301
So that's nice.

417
00:24:21,301 --> 00:24:25,274
And I don't want to ever stop interviewing interesting, cool people like I do now.

418
00:24:25,274 --> 00:24:27,886
I think it's just, it's a very cool profession.

419
00:24:27,886 --> 00:24:32,398
In the meantime, I have found myself with some opportunities for speaking on some
podcasts.

420
00:24:32,398 --> 00:24:38,038
And I feel this, I feel this just inspiration to talk to people.

421
00:24:38,038 --> 00:24:39,798
And maybe it's about living a generous life.

422
00:24:39,798 --> 00:24:47,318
I think I have a few other books in me, but just having the opportunity to talk to and
inspire people with that combination of what's great leadership and what are you doing

423
00:24:47,318 --> 00:24:49,758
with your life and how are you doing it on purpose?

424
00:24:49,758 --> 00:24:55,678
just feel that's, I'd like that chapter to be getting bigger while the, you know, the
search is steady for a bit.

425
00:24:55,678 --> 00:24:59,658
And then maybe appoint my successor and do a little bit less.

426
00:25:00,024 --> 00:25:11,881
So, um and we could talk forever, but let's dig a little bit deeper here to wrap this up
on these C-suite level executives that you've interacted with over your career.

427
00:25:12,102 --> 00:25:16,094
You know, I think all of us are like, man, what makes them different and how does that
person become successful?

428
00:25:16,094 --> 00:25:25,670
We have all these questions, but what for you personally in your quiet moments, what's
been most intriguing to you about being around these people?

429
00:25:26,104 --> 00:25:30,497
So I've been around, I'm fortunate to be around so many amazing leaders and interview
them.

430
00:25:30,497 --> 00:25:34,900
I don't know how to describe how you discern this in somebody, but I've learned to just
see it.

431
00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:43,685
When you have somebody that can actually see around corners, what could go wrong, being
prepared for it, but still being uh optimistic about how, you know, have the strategy,

432
00:25:43,685 --> 00:25:47,537
have the plan, have the contingent, but literally I call it seeing around corners.

433
00:25:47,537 --> 00:25:52,012
And I can just, I know it when I'm talking to an executive that gets it.

434
00:25:52,126 --> 00:25:58,351
the gentleman I work for now, feel like he's got this, sees things that I'm, most of us
are like, what are you thinking?

435
00:25:58,351 --> 00:25:59,339
Why would you want to do that?

436
00:25:59,339 --> 00:26:00,993
And next thing you know, I'm like, that's brilliant.

437
00:26:00,993 --> 00:26:03,715
So, you know, I don't know that I have that, but I can see it in other people.

438
00:26:03,715 --> 00:26:07,818
And it's a leader that can see around the corner and make great decisions and course
correct quickly.

439
00:26:07,854 --> 00:26:08,594
Hmm.

440
00:26:08,594 --> 00:26:15,374
So when you see those people, when you were in an executive search, when you saw them, who
do you, what do you do?

441
00:26:15,374 --> 00:26:20,534
Do you call like the top company and you're like, Oh my gosh, this is the person.

442
00:26:21,262 --> 00:26:25,182
Yeah, so I get called by the top company before I talk to the candidate.

443
00:26:25,182 --> 00:26:27,602
So I get hired to go find those people.

444
00:26:27,602 --> 00:26:29,402
And we have to kiss a lot of frogs.

445
00:26:29,402 --> 00:26:38,082
And it doesn't mean somebody isn't a good executive, but when you're bringing somebody in
from the outside, especially in a C-suite position, and there's not an internal successor,

446
00:26:38,082 --> 00:26:39,842
it better, I call it the wow factor.

447
00:26:39,842 --> 00:26:45,682
Everybody you thought they should be in line for that job and didn't get it, they need to
be saying, wow, now I know why you didn't promote me into that.

448
00:26:45,682 --> 00:26:50,360
So I look for this wow factor and I try as best as possible if it's not confidential to

449
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:54,952
be around the current person, maybe they're retiring, maybe they're getting fired,
whatever the situation is.

450
00:26:54,952 --> 00:27:01,196
If I can get to know them pretty well, I know what wow is, it's the next best version of
what that company needs in that position.

451
00:27:01,196 --> 00:27:07,719
I also find that I'm not supposed to place, like if I'm replacing you, in this job, I'm
not looking for Mark Perkins.

452
00:27:07,719 --> 00:27:10,440
I'm looking for Mark Perkins 2.0.

453
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:11,615
I need the next best version.

454
00:27:11,615 --> 00:27:14,132
I need the future leader, not yesterday's leader.

455
00:27:14,446 --> 00:27:15,389
How do you build that plan?

456
00:27:15,389 --> 00:27:19,562
you listen to the company or is it your job to dig in deep and say, see what they need.

457
00:27:20,142 --> 00:27:25,082
They really try to attach their strategy to what they're trying to accomplish.

458
00:27:25,202 --> 00:27:28,802
And our firm does a lot of work on strategy and org design as well as executive search.

459
00:27:28,802 --> 00:27:32,882
So we really bring in our consulting side of the business to look at where are you trying
to go?

460
00:27:32,882 --> 00:27:37,242
Because the person that got you to where you are today is usually not the person that's
going to get you to that next place.

461
00:27:37,242 --> 00:27:39,482
So we call it modern leadership behaviors.

462
00:27:39,482 --> 00:27:48,446
And what is the behavior of the modern leader that's going to get you where you say you
want to go with your plans in your 18 months to five years?

463
00:27:48,446 --> 00:27:56,153
And I think we live in such a disruptive, people have been saying this for a dozen years,
but we live in such a disrupted and distributed uh world.

464
00:27:56,153 --> 00:28:01,359
You have to figure out how to be present all the time, everywhere, and just manage through
disruption.

465
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,332
And those are pretty serious skill sets to manage a company through.

466
00:28:06,018 --> 00:28:06,829
What do you think happened?

467
00:28:06,829 --> 00:28:17,227
There's a real world example of, um, an entrepreneur starting a company, moving out an
outside EWEE CEO coming in and that not working.

468
00:28:17,227 --> 00:28:17,987
So it's in the book.

469
00:28:17,987 --> 00:28:19,428
It's about Steve jobs.

470
00:28:19,428 --> 00:28:25,953
Is this a book study in your field about when they brought in John Scully from Pepsi and
then that didn't work out the way they wanted it to.

471
00:28:25,953 --> 00:28:32,478
And they went back and got Steve and he turned the company and maybe it's different that
you see it, but if you all done a book study on this in your field,

472
00:28:33,262 --> 00:28:41,691
done, and I don't know anybody in my company that's done a book study, but I think he
needed to be, he needed to be gone to come back the way he did.

473
00:28:41,691 --> 00:28:43,332
So it wasn't wrong.

474
00:28:43,473 --> 00:28:44,344
I don't think it was wrong.

475
00:28:44,344 --> 00:28:52,522
I don't think he would be, ultimately been the leader he was at the time he was needed to
be, you know, the Steve Jobs that he was if he didn't have that time away.

476
00:28:53,228 --> 00:28:54,727
needed some humbling.

477
00:28:55,752 --> 00:28:59,908
Yeah, I think his perspective changed.

478
00:28:59,908 --> 00:29:01,804
He came in and looked at things differently.

479
00:29:01,804 --> 00:29:04,879
Yeah, from the Pixar stuff and next computers and all that.

480
00:29:04,879 --> 00:29:05,931
Yeah.

481
00:29:05,931 --> 00:29:09,236
I think it's, it tough being inside the bubble and seeing the fixed?

482
00:29:10,376 --> 00:29:12,067
Um, no, it's interesting.

483
00:29:12,067 --> 00:29:17,990
It's like watching a new movie every day because I have so many different clients and they
have different issues and different problems.

484
00:29:17,990 --> 00:29:20,171
And sometimes I'm working on a commercial role or operations.

485
00:29:20,171 --> 00:29:22,072
Sometimes it's a P and L leader or CEO.

486
00:29:22,072 --> 00:29:24,893
It's actually, it's like, you never know what the movie is going to be.

487
00:29:24,893 --> 00:29:27,694
And when I interview a candidate, it's always like, I don't know their story.

488
00:29:27,694 --> 00:29:32,857
I mean, I might know because sometimes they're well-known leaders, but it's like, it's
like a new movie every day.

489
00:29:32,857 --> 00:29:36,224
And it's fun to be inside of companies and

490
00:29:36,224 --> 00:29:42,042
and some of them are well-known brands, then you're like, it's not like I expected from
the outside as a consumer of that particular brand.

491
00:29:42,042 --> 00:29:42,813
So it's fun.

492
00:29:42,813 --> 00:29:44,886
It's, it's, yeah.

493
00:29:44,886 --> 00:29:50,123
have a whole podcast about culture and what that means, but we can't get into that subject
because that'll get wild and crazy.

494
00:29:50,123 --> 00:29:52,817
um do you help companies with strategy?

495
00:29:52,817 --> 00:29:56,532
Do you help them evaluate internal candidates to promote them as well?

496
00:29:56,532 --> 00:29:58,274
Is that a part of this search?

497
00:29:58,274 --> 00:30:05,446
Yeah, almost always when I start a search, there's an internal candidate that they want to
be considered or the candidate themselves want to be considered.

498
00:30:05,446 --> 00:30:07,497
And we put them through the exact same process.

499
00:30:07,497 --> 00:30:09,757
And there are times that we recommend the internal.

500
00:30:09,757 --> 00:30:15,919
But what our clients look for us to do is to help them make a good evaluation of what's
out in the market compared to what we have.

501
00:30:15,919 --> 00:30:19,540
And yes, they're spending money for it, but they're much more confident in their decision.

502
00:30:19,540 --> 00:30:21,160
We have psychometrics that we use.

503
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,321
have executive coaches that walk through the psychometrics.

504
00:30:24,321 --> 00:30:26,342
So it's not a subjective interview.

505
00:30:26,342 --> 00:30:27,132
There's psychometrics.

506
00:30:27,132 --> 00:30:27,886
And then we have

507
00:30:27,886 --> 00:30:33,270
100 days of integration coaching for that placed executive, whether they're internal,
placed in the new job or external.

508
00:30:33,270 --> 00:30:37,092
So we try to mitigate risk and help make sure they get the very best person.

509
00:30:37,092 --> 00:30:40,594
And if it's an internal, we're happy to say you've got great talent.

510
00:30:40,750 --> 00:30:41,433
Do you wait?

511
00:30:41,433 --> 00:30:46,113
that person get weighted a little bit differently that they've already been inside the
company and culture?

512
00:30:46,113 --> 00:30:46,783
No.

513
00:30:47,406 --> 00:30:49,738
But we try not to because to us it's another candidate.

514
00:30:49,738 --> 00:30:51,129
We don't know them, we didn't know them beforehand.

515
00:30:51,129 --> 00:30:52,290
So it doesn't for us.

516
00:30:52,290 --> 00:31:00,495
I think for our clients, if it's all things being equal, rather go with somebody who knows
your company and your culture and you've seen results from.

517
00:31:00,495 --> 00:31:08,581
I mean, it's always less risky because you're starting a new company and probably a bigger
job and a new culture, new bosses, it's just higher risk when you're external.

518
00:31:08,581 --> 00:31:15,005
But if you're internal, you're not ready, if you're not wow, then your peers are going to
be like, how did she get that job?

519
00:31:15,906 --> 00:31:22,705
When you see somebody get promoted internally, there's a couple of really big top 50
companies here in the Cincinnati marketplace, right?

520
00:31:22,705 --> 00:31:30,987
There's a Kroger, there's a P &G, GE Aviation has a, what you see is, you know, the
business courier comes out and they announced somebody ascended to the CEO spot.

521
00:31:30,987 --> 00:31:34,080
There's always the other C-suite people always leave.

522
00:31:34,990 --> 00:31:39,754
Well, sometimes the other C-suite people leave because the new leader brought their own
folks.

523
00:31:39,754 --> 00:31:45,700
And this happens a lot with CEOs like their own CFO, their own CHRO, maybe their general
counsel.

524
00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:56,930
There's a big company up in Milwaukee that in the last six months, new CEO came in and
some of the fantastic people on the leadership team left or were exited because that

525
00:31:56,930 --> 00:32:02,304
individual wanted the team that he knew he had succeeded with at the last company and he
knew he could rock with them again.

526
00:32:02,606 --> 00:32:09,156
So what's the message for those C-suite people that still have a significant talent that
didn't fit into what that new CEO's vision is?

527
00:32:09,156 --> 00:32:10,718
What's your message for them?

528
00:32:11,106 --> 00:32:15,829
Well, there's one person in particular with a CHRO that I think is fantastic.

529
00:32:15,829 --> 00:32:19,611
And you just have to look at everything as like, there must be something better for me.

530
00:32:19,611 --> 00:32:21,011
Like what's next?

531
00:32:21,092 --> 00:32:27,675
And who's the CEO that you've worked with in the past around different companies that you
need to call and say, they know how good you are.

532
00:32:27,675 --> 00:32:30,167
And then call people like me and see what I'm working on.

533
00:32:30,167 --> 00:32:31,577
There's an opportunity in everything.

534
00:32:31,577 --> 00:32:33,038
There's a lesson in everything.

535
00:32:33,038 --> 00:32:34,250
All right, so one final question here.

536
00:32:34,250 --> 00:32:40,927
It's been a great conversation, but one question before we let you highlight where people
find you and buy the books and all that stuff.

537
00:32:41,249 --> 00:32:48,968
Have you personally learned more from good leaders and good managers or ones that weren't
so good?

538
00:32:50,696 --> 00:32:51,387
Both.

539
00:32:51,387 --> 00:32:52,687
You know it's both.

540
00:32:52,687 --> 00:32:53,767
It's both.

541
00:32:55,309 --> 00:33:04,654
It's more pleasant with the great ones that you can model after, but it's equally as
impactful of what you don't want to do and what you...

542
00:33:04,654 --> 00:33:07,236
It just spotlights, where's the stain on the shirt?

543
00:33:07,236 --> 00:33:09,457
Let's not let that happen again.

544
00:33:09,557 --> 00:33:11,638
So it is absolutely both.

545
00:33:12,248 --> 00:33:14,495
So when both show up, value them both.

546
00:33:14,958 --> 00:33:18,978
value them and just don't model the latter.

547
00:33:20,358 --> 00:33:22,198
Yes, yes, you're absolutely right.

548
00:33:22,243 --> 00:33:24,450
because I value anything that I can learn from

549
00:33:24,450 --> 00:33:25,350
Yeah, yeah.

550
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:26,671
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

551
00:33:26,671 --> 00:33:33,636
you know, if God thinks he can trust me with big problems, I try to remind myself that
there's, you grow muscle when things are tough, right?

552
00:33:33,636 --> 00:33:37,934
And what muscle am I exercising that I needed to exercise in the tough times?

553
00:33:37,934 --> 00:33:38,154
All right.

554
00:33:38,154 --> 00:33:39,094
So what do you tell these?

555
00:33:39,094 --> 00:33:46,734
then after you transition into how we find you and where to get the book, but all these,
um, students that you're so passionate at the university of Georgia, because you love the

556
00:33:46,734 --> 00:33:50,074
university and the campus, what do you tell them?

557
00:33:50,074 --> 00:33:56,634
They're coming out of college 22, 23 years old and they look at you and I remember being
22 or 23.

558
00:33:56,634 --> 00:34:05,994
We look at these leaders and we put them on pedestals and we're like one day, what do you,
what do you tell them about this journey and maybe advice or perspective?

559
00:34:05,994 --> 00:34:07,314
What's the best.

560
00:34:07,362 --> 00:34:09,906
that you've found that you can offer them.

561
00:34:10,062 --> 00:34:12,983
Well, I tell them not to take their education for granted.

562
00:34:12,983 --> 00:34:16,384
And I tell them from day one, start giving.

563
00:34:16,524 --> 00:34:17,824
Day one, start giving.

564
00:34:17,824 --> 00:34:20,215
The Terry Business College, it's called 10 for Terry.

565
00:34:20,215 --> 00:34:22,606
You can give $10 a month, 10 for Terry.

566
00:34:22,606 --> 00:34:25,886
And we encourage the graduates to do that from the day they graduate.

567
00:34:25,886 --> 00:34:27,547
That's a cup of coffee these days.

568
00:34:27,547 --> 00:34:34,409
And if you learn the habit of being a giver early, you don't wait till you make seven
figures to give 100,000, right?

569
00:34:34,409 --> 00:34:37,230
So be a giver, and be a giver of your time.

570
00:34:37,230 --> 00:34:38,797
Give back to the institution.

571
00:34:38,797 --> 00:34:44,317
Just, you know, so be proud to earn well so you can return well.

572
00:34:44,317 --> 00:34:46,537
I mean, it's just my learning, earning, and returning story for them.

573
00:34:46,537 --> 00:34:49,057
And they're so ambitious and they go on to do great things.

574
00:34:49,057 --> 00:34:53,797
When I was getting out of school, there weren't people becoming entrepreneurs in their 20s
and 30s.

575
00:34:53,797 --> 00:34:54,856
There are now.

576
00:34:54,856 --> 00:34:57,757
So I'm not sure they need much encouragement from me.

577
00:34:57,757 --> 00:35:01,254
These young folks are doing big things sooner than we ever did.

578
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,243
So where do we come find everything about you?

579
00:35:03,243 --> 00:35:04,204
How do we engage with you?

580
00:35:04,204 --> 00:35:05,146
Where do we buy the book?

581
00:35:05,146 --> 00:35:07,158
Where do you get hired to come and speak?

582
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:08,612
Thank you.

583
00:35:08,612 --> 00:35:10,624
I have a website, which is my full name.

584
00:35:10,624 --> 00:35:14,520
So Mary Elizabeth Saad with sadd.com.

585
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:15,721
You can find all of it there.

586
00:35:15,721 --> 00:35:17,684
There's a link to my book, but it's on Amazon.

587
00:35:17,684 --> 00:35:21,922
um This one's a little bit beat up, it's, it's, see, I like flowers.

588
00:35:21,922 --> 00:35:22,474
Yes you do.

589
00:35:22,474 --> 00:35:24,716
You like glossy things and flowers.

590
00:35:24,716 --> 00:35:25,997
I like glossy things and flowers.

591
00:35:25,997 --> 00:35:30,811
got me all figured out here, So yes, marylisbethsad.com and you'll find everything there.

592
00:35:30,811 --> 00:35:39,788
um I work for Modern Executive Solutions in my day job and modernexecutivesolutions.com is
the website for the firm and you can find all the cool stuff we do with consulting and

593
00:35:39,788 --> 00:35:40,598
search.

594
00:35:41,038 --> 00:35:41,884
Thank you for joining us.

595
00:35:41,884 --> 00:35:44,650
I hope the sun is shining in Georgia today.

596
00:35:44,650 --> 00:35:46,104
It is beautiful in Georgia.

597
00:35:46,104 --> 00:35:46,575
Thank you.

598
00:35:46,575 --> 00:35:47,860
hope it's the same in Cincinnati.

599
00:35:47,860 --> 00:35:51,534
I hope tomorrow the trip down to see your sister, I hope that goes well.

600
00:35:51,534 --> 00:35:52,614
Thank you so much.

601
00:35:52,614 --> 00:35:53,414
I appreciate it.

602
00:35:53,414 --> 00:35:54,402
It's been a pleasure.

603
00:35:54,402 --> 00:35:55,667
Thank you for coming on.